Gun safe installation


PDA






Lone_Sheep_Dog
July 30, 2009, 09:59 PM
I got a locksmith to bolt my safe down to the floor. It is on a concrete slab. The locksmith apparently had never done this before. He told me I should get some anchors to finish the installation. I'm not sure what he was talking about. It is a fairly large safe. It weighs about 500 pounds empty. It is a Stack On Elite model. Take a look at the pic. Is this good enough to secure the safe? Should I get some anchors for it?

If you enjoyed reading about "Gun safe installation" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
marsche
July 30, 2009, 11:17 PM
Cement anchors to screw bolts into? What are the bolts screwed into in the cement?

Lone_Sheep_Dog
July 30, 2009, 11:21 PM
I don't know how the guy installed the bolts.

Acera
July 30, 2009, 11:24 PM
500 pounds is fairly light when talking about safes (or RSC as what it really is.) anyone who wants to get that out should be able to in a few minutes or less. With the bolts in a line, just get it rocking and you can rip them out pretty easly, or break them. A better solution is at a minimum get one on each corner. Use the biggest you can find at a hardware store, or better look up masonry supply in the phone book. They can get you some serious anchors, and special epoxy to complete the installation of the in slab pieces. Then get you some bigger washers on those bolt heads, to help spread the force around in event of some one trying to get it up. You got a good idea, now just do the job to a much higher standard, it will not cost you that much more to do it right.

stevemis
July 30, 2009, 11:27 PM
I like to see 5 bolts -- one in each corner and one in the center of the safe. You have two and they don't even appear to be very large. I'd strongly recommend Redhead fasteners on the slab.

If you don't know what any of this means, find someone who does and don't invite the "locksmith" back. Any handyman or contractor should be able to do this ... easily.

skipsan
July 31, 2009, 12:33 AM
The pro safe installers that installed my safe used Redhead anchors--four--one in each corner. One extra anchor in the middle would have been even better. Home Depot among many others, sells the Redhead products.

a1abdj
July 31, 2009, 01:44 AM
What the heck is that?

Are those bolts secured into anything? Are the washers on top of the gypsum?

If the "locksmith" is talking about lead anchors to secure those bolts, don't do it. You'll want a drive in wedge anchor. You will also want to cut the gypsum down to the bare metal and tighten it up with the washers in direct contact of the bottom of the safe.

barneyrw
July 31, 2009, 02:35 AM
I don't think bolting the safe to the floor with anchors in the cement slab floor works very well. Like someone said you could probably just start rocking it back and forth and pull the anchors out easily. I found a much better and easier solution is to set the safe in place then locate a wood stud behind the safe. Then drill a hole from the inside back of the safe near the top through the safe into the stud inside the wall. Then screw a 7/16" or 3/8" lag screw with a large fender washer on it through the back of the safe into the wall stud. You would pretty much have to rip the stud out of the wall to get the safe lose. It only takes a few minutes to do and is much stronger and easier to do than the floor mounting method. If you later move the safe it just takes a little spackling to fill the hole in the wall. No drilling several holes in cement either. Just way easier and much stronger.

Acera
July 31, 2009, 05:44 PM
barneyrw, interesting idea. Of course you are the first person I have ever heard say not to bolt one to the floor properly.

I stand by my statement to securely bolt it to the floor.

barneyrw
August 1, 2009, 06:58 PM
Acera, you said yourself, "With the bolts in a line, just get it rocking and you can rip them out pretty easly, or break them.". Bolted to the floor you are starting out with 5 feet of leverage if you grab the top of the safe. I never tried it but it seems to me breaking the lead anchors lose would be fairly easy. If you bolt it to a wood stud in the wall, you will pretty much have to rip the wall apart and cut the wood stud to get the safe lose. It can be done with some tools but I think much harder than rocking it lose from floor anchors. It's also way easier to drill one hole through the back of the safe into a wood stud than four even larger holes into cement. I wouldn't put much store in what the Safe Companies say. Have you ever tried to get anywhere close to the number of rifles in a safe that the Safe Companies "say" they will hold?

Acera
August 1, 2009, 07:52 PM
barneyrw, I also said properly.

It is a lot easier to pull that little screw out of the stud (has to be little, big one would split the stud) than you think. A simple pry bar on the top of the safe will do the trick. Not saying that is not a good idea, but it has to be integrated into a complete plan, including bolting it down. I will be hard to rock with bolts on the corners.


I wouldn't put much store in what the Safe Companies say. Have you ever tried to get anywhere close to the number of rifles in a safe that the Safe Companies "say" they will hold?

Well, yes I do when they talk about how to secure their product. Check out their websites, on the ones where you can find it, they say bolt it down. As far as the gun question, I have twice the number my safe claims. However they all are in protective sleeves and are packed pretty tightly. I think they use a number that can be easily placed in there without them touching each other, and they tend to use bolt guns--not those that have a lot of stuff sticking out, like mags, bipods, etc.

barneyrw
August 1, 2009, 08:58 PM
Acera, I think you're misunderstanding some things I am saying. It's not a "little screw", it's a 3/8" lag screw 5" long with a large fender washer. I drilled a hole through the back of the safe into the wood stud, so there is no splitting of the wood stud. A pry bar on top of the safe just isn't going to work at all, you can't even get a purchase point because the safe is screwed tight against the wall. Yes it could be done, but prying a 3/8" lag screw that is screwed almost 4" into wood is quite a trick. You could get it lose but it will probably require tearing the wall apart and cutting the stud. Yours bolted to the floor will be loaded up and gone before they even get mine lose.

As far as the gun safe capacity, yes you can put more guns than they say, but you will have to just pile them in there. The shelving racks that come with the safe might hold Daisy BB guns but certainly not full size rifles and you have to take several rifles out to get to the ones in the back. I have two Cannon safes and a Centurion and I had to make my own racks in a semi circular pattern. They don't hold as many rifles but they are right in the open and easy to get to without removing several rifles to get to the one I want. Again I wouldn't put much store in what the Safe Companies say.

Acera
August 2, 2009, 12:03 AM
barneyrw what kind of house do you live in? Mine is made of 2x4s here in Texas. That means the studs are 1 1/2 inches by 3 1/2 inches in size, so I can't get 4 inches of wood to hold on to, so I don't believe you can either.. Plus the Sheetrock will be where you get your purchase, real easy to get a pry bar between the safe and stud, you have only 1/2-5/8 of soft gypsum to crumble out of the way. Then you have a great space to work with. Your lag screw is a good idea, if it did not take up so much of the stud material, and weakened the stud. Are you absolutely sure you got it exactly in the middle? You don't have that much room on either side to work with, and since you can't see the stud, it's hard to judge. Also are you sure it did not come out the side? Studs warp and twist as they dry. (Trust me on this, I build homes for a living.)

Well you don't have a safe, because Canon does not make them, it's a RSC. Yeah don't listen to what the mfgs tell you, they probably lied to you when they sold you that "safe".

I don't own a bb gun, I took the racks out, that is how I got more guns inside. It does not bother me to have to move a few guns to get to the ones I need, at least most of them are in there. I don't believe in putting a gun you might need in an immediate emergency in a safe, takes too long to open and get it going.

Yours bolted to the floor will be loaded up and gone before they even get mine lose Not a chance kiddo. How do I know this, because I understand how yours is installed, and you don't know jack about the other ways mine is secured other than it is bolted to the slab.

ants
August 2, 2009, 01:26 AM
Safes have holes in the bottom so you can anchor them to the floor. That's where the anchor holes are located, in the bottom. That's what you're supposed to do.

You can affix anchors to the floor with epoxy modified grout, or use expansion anchors. If it's a concrete floor, you need a concrete/masonry bit to drill the holes. You might want to use a hammer drill, but you can do it with a regular 1/2" drill with some patience. If it's a wood floor you use lag bolts. I wouldn't drill large pilot holes into the floor joist, it will weaken it significantly right below a big heavy load (your safe). Disaster may easily result.

barneyrw
August 2, 2009, 01:31 AM
Acera, again you have misconceptions how mine is installed and again you aren't reading my posts correctly. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Have a nice day and I hope neither of us will have our installation methods tested.

cloudcroft
August 2, 2009, 04:19 AM
Put the safe in a CORNER so it has to be PULLED on instead of PUSHED to get it "rocking." Pulling on something is much more difficult than pushing on it. Avoid mounting a safe where it can be gotten at from each side, like in the middle of a wall.

Also, you can use extra-long bolts and contractor/construction-grade epoxy in the holes to anchor a serious upside-down bolt (like a 10" long 1/2" hex bolt), threads up (so you put the nuts/washers on from the inside of the safe).

AND, if possible BOLT IT TO THE WALL. If it's your house, remove some sheetrock and sister a couple more studs to the original one -- and maybe put in some new ones -- and you have PLENTY of solid wood to grip with some SERIOUS lag bolts. Putting new sheetrock in, taping and mudding the joints isn't hard, either is painting...although getting the SAME texture may be difficult. Still, if you want to do a serious mounting, then sheetrock removal/replacement will probably have to be done.

If you do all that, it will about as hard to "rock" the safe as it's ever going to be.

Good luck,

-- John D.

TexasRedneck
August 2, 2009, 05:16 AM
Going into the wall isn't going to get you much - you can't think like a normal person - ya gotta think like the idiot breaking in. They make a product called a "Thunder Stud" - others here have called it an expansion or wedge anchor. You put 5 of the 1/2" ones in there - anyone able to break it loose is welcome to it!

My safe weighs in at 1800 lbs empty. It's STILL anchored w/5 Thunder Studs - and I PROMISE you - you hit that safe, you'll SWEAR it's part of the foundation!!!

2nd 41
August 2, 2009, 11:20 PM
My 60" high safe was Lag Bolted to the Floor by professional installers.yuk yuk

It was pulled out of it's position with not too much of a problem. Fortunately my X/wife and her accomplishes could not get the door off.

There are some very good installation points here. Very good thread. Do it right. Do not feel secure just because some screws are into cement.

If you enjoyed reading about "Gun safe installation" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!