[SteyrAUG]

OK, as a gun consumer since about 1978 (I was about 12 and bought a 1911 Colt .45 and a Walther P-38 to go with my Luger) who has spent a LOT of money on guns and as a dealer for the past couple years I feel qualified to know this topic pretty well from both sides of the table.

I offer the following merely as a general guide to help you be more successful in your firearms purchases by offering some insight to the other side of the equation.

This is advice, nothing more.

1. Know your guns. Research your intended purchase. Know the exact model and specification of your intended purchase whenever possible. Despite the myth dealers don't know everything. Being more, or as knowledgeable, about your intended purchase lets the dealer know he is dealing with a intelligent customer and prevents the accidental purchase of what you 'thought' was what you really wanted. There is nothing wrong with asking the dealer for his recommendation of a gun for a specific use, but knowing what you want is always better.

Try and use correct terms and know what the specifications actually mean if you are gonna use them. In other words if you are talking about a clip, you better be referring to your Garand. Also save the "I was a member of Delta" stories for your buddies. It is sorta entertaining but it gets old and it's hard to take anything you say after that seriously, even when you are right.

2. Remember the dealer is a person and treat him as such. True money talks but aholes often pay full retail. If you go into a shop with the attitude that they are nothing but rip off artists looking to hose you, you can just about guarantee that is what you will get. The reverse is also true, if they treated YOU like some cheapskate ahole who is gonna cry about every dime how much are you gonna actually spend there?

I know a couple guys who are flat broke but genuine 'good guys.' I never make what I feel my time is worth when I deal with them, but I never feel bad for doing it anyway. There is also a local dealer down here who is so obnoxious that I have actually been in his store TRYING to spend money on guns but left empty handed. He is one of the largest stocking dealers down here but a complete ahole. If you ever want to be treated like a shoplifting child molestor while paying full retail + 10% his store is the place. I politely refer all of the people I choose not to do business with to his store.

3. The price is on the tag. With the exception of gun shows you should expect to pay the price on the tag. The dealer has decided that is what he wants or believes he can get for that gun. If you can find it cheaper somewhere else EVERYONE (including the dealer) knows you will. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking, or trying to make a deal, but Wal Mart or SGN prices have nothing to do with what the dealer believes he needs to charge for his guns to still be in business next month.

If you feel the need to be a Arab Trader this is the secret...package deal. If you just bust his balls because his SKS is $155 and you saw one in SGN for $140 the only reason he may meet that price is so you will leave. And you really won't be his most favored customer after that. If you want to wheel and deal effectively buy your accessories and ammo and work out a overall deal with minor discounts on each item.

Dealers as a rule buy various stuff from various sources and pay individual shipping charges, etc. on each order. The opportunity to do a package deal is very tempting as a result I know I have more room to negotiate on a gun, base, rings and scope package than on a rifle alone. Also most dealers LOVE setting someone up with a complete package and will usually work with you since you are obviously a serious shooter with money to spend.

4. Be careful about asking for recommendations. While there is nothing wrong with asking a dealer what his opinion is, remember you are gonna get HIS opinion complete with biases and personal preferrences. For CCW guns I love high capacity 9mms, you might find you prefer a 1911 .45 after you already spent your money. Use dealer recommendations only for the most general things and remember firearm choices are very personal. What is good for me might not be good for you at all. If you do ask for a opinion, get a "why" as well.

The only real dealer recommendations are those of price. "What can I get for X amount of dollars?" This keeps a dealer from wasting your time with the Kimber catalog if your budget is only $495.

5. Remember the golden rule. It never ceases to amaze me that the same guys who are crying about the dealer who tried to screw them are also most proud of the junky gun they sold for way more than it was worth. Don't try and screw the dealer, it ain't any better than the rip off scum bag POS who tried to screw you. Everyone has a stake in a deal, and everyone wants the best deal but you can still negotiate politely and respectfully. If you can't work it out, you can walk away from the table dignity intact.

I've respectfully declined many sales and purchase offers. If I told them to f off many would not have returned at a later date with something I was actually interested in. Most dealers are willing to take trade ins, etc. but I'm probably not interested in buying your Jennings and applying it toward the Armalite you wanted.

And finally.

There are exceptions to all of the above. Despite your best intentions or motives, there will sadly always be people with a "F You" attitude. These people for some reason never feel good about the deal unless they honestly believe they have "f-ed you." It's sad but I've seen it time and again.

They include the customer who isn't happy until he believes he has bought the gun "at or below" your cost thereby guarateeing that you in no way profitted from him and that he in no way actually supported your chosen business and of course the dealer who just isn't happy until he has gotten 'crackhead prices' for your collectable firearms or had sold you a commonly available firearms at MSRP + $100.

It doesn't matter if these people bought or sold at acceptable current values, they ain't happy unless somebody (besides them) lost big. It's a long way from just being happy to have gotten the "one you've been looking for." A wise man once said "The appreciation for the quality firearm in your collection will remain long after you have forgotten what you actually paid for it." Conversely..."A piece of sh*t is still a piece of sh*t even on sale."

God I miss the gun trade of the 1980s.

Hope this helps.

[Pilgrim]

SteyrAUG,

You covered it pretty well. Having spent time on both sides of the counter, I have come to appreciate the problems of the stocking gun dealer. My friendly neighborhood FFL is also a farmer, so he doesn't always have time to play with lookey-loos in the gun shop. When he is busy with farming, I don't go near his shop unless I have something specific in mind that I want to buy.

He doesn't have much flexiblity on prices with his new stock, but he is very flexible on the used stock. He knows what I like and if he gets something in he thinks I might like, he will keep it off the racks until I get a chance to look at it.

Pilgrim

[Old Fuff]

I too have been on both sides of the counter, and my experience confirms that what you say is right on target. The customer who expects the dealer to sell below his cost is unlikely to get very far. A dealer who is out to nail his customers - particularly inexperienced ones - won't last long as the word gets around. The smart customer is the one who wants a discount and can show the dealer he deserves one.

Also, if one buys ammunition and accessories from a "mart" discounter or over the Internet, that's their business. However, they shouldn't expect a small retailer to then bend over backwards to give them a super deal on that "must-have" gun they want. Dealers are well aware of customers who what to deal on guns, but never buy a round of ammunition. It is not unusual for them to hold back the best trade-in's for "prefered customers." The cut-to-the-bone guys will never see them.

Last but not least, keep in mind that a dealer is unlikely to offer full value on a gun you want to trade in. They expect to make a profit when they sell it. They are after all, runnning a business - not a hobby.

[Mike Irwin]

I always just flash a large wad of cash. :)

[iamkris]

From a consumer and business standpoint you seem to hit it pretty well, but...

My exception would be for point #1. Expecting the customer to know everything is a little ridiculous in an industry that need desperately to attract new blood. That's like expecting a car dealer to refuse to serve someone if they don't know everything about the car. Why do we even need the dealer if they aren't going to provide advice and education? Dealers should be going out of their way to come up with programs and education sessions, including a welcoming environment to EVERYONE, not just the good ol' boys who know everything. That's incestuous and everyone knows what happens when the gene pool isn't refreshed.

Now you probably didn't mean it quite like that, however, there are enough arrogant dealers out there to spoil the lot for most people. When I was 12, I used to go to a place called Fred's Gun Shop. I used to always be greeted with a "Well, hello there young man!" and he was always willing to let me fondle the latest addition to his case or give me the history of a particular item.

If dealers can't provide this kind of service, then the internet is a perfectly good replacement.

[Keith]

Having been on both sides of that counter also, let me give some advice to the dealer as well.

1. Talk to and LISTEN to your customers even if they indicate they aren't buying a gun that day. You don't have to spend the whole day leaning over the counter and shooting the breeze, but spend some time with each customer. If you talk to them (even when they aren't buying) they'll like you. If they like you, they'll trust you. If they trust you, they'll come back to you when they ARE looking to buy a gun. And they'll send their friends down!

2. Let the customer handle guns they ask about - even (again) if they aren't buying that day! Yes, it's a pain in the butt and yes you'll have to wipe off the fingerpints later, but when people handle guns they can see how they "fit", etc. It plants a seed that may grow into a purchase at some later point.

These two things are becoming rare in gun shops. A gun is a major purchase and yet too many gun shops keep the customer at a distance. The customer is curious about that $1000 "Kimfield Supermatic" that he read about in Guns & Ammo. He wanders into a gun shop and gets a barely polite nod from the guy behind the counter. He asks about the gun (after explaining that he's just waiting for his wife to finish her appointment next door) and the dealer points to one under glass and makes no offer to pull it out for examination. The guy leaves and sees the same gun in Wal-Mart - they aren't any more helpful there, but the gun is $50 cheaper and so, a month later when he has the extra cash he goes down and buys it.

Keith

[JohnBT]

If I'm really just looking I tell them to help the paying customers first.

I ALWAYS buy something - a box of ammo, a bottle of bore cleaner, a hat. They do remember these weekly purchases year after year.

Ask before you dry fire.

Watch that muzzle.

I buy guns with checks. They don't discount new guns, but sometimes they'll give me some ammo or cleaning supplies since they're not paying the Visa fee.

Say things like "What's a good cleaning rod for that 5.5" Single-Six I bought from you in 1972?", or "I want something to plink with that'll irritate my dad. He's shooting a blue Python he got from you 15 years ago. Let me see a Kimber Stainless Gold Match and bring a blue one out too if you don't mind." I don't usually buy the new guns in the display case and they have to walk back into the warehouse to get the unhandled ones. Some days they'll bring out 3 and let me pick. (The Stainless GM didn't irritate my dad too much.)

And if the sales guys ask me if I know this or that about a particular gun I just say I dunno if I really don't know.

John

P.S. - OTOH, I still ask for a discount on everything I buy. But I do it with a smile on my face and we all have a good laugh.

[Billy Sparks]

iamkris, I disagree with you to a point. Yes the customer should have a idea but how much should they know about the gun they want? I recently called the gun shop I have bought most of my long guns for, I wanted a price on a Mossburg shotgun, the dealer basically asked me if I had a SKU number. In his words "they make too many for me to give you a price, get the exact SKU number and I'll give you a price." Now seeing as how I had asked for a ball park price this sorta put me off. Needless to say I don't think I am going to rush over there for my next purchase.

[BigG]

Sterling advice, SteyrAUG! I especially liked this part:
the same guys who are crying about the dealer who tried to screw them are also most proud of the junky gun they sold for way more than it was worth. You are a pretty observant guy and have a sense of humor. The gun shoppes I deal with have to have friendly characters or I look elsewhere. For the most part, guns are like buses. If you miss one another one comes along in fifteen minutes. No need to get upset.

[Jason Demond]

Great post SteyrAUG!

I don't bother to shop at my local gunshop anymore, because the guy goes out of his way to rip you off. His employees are nice enough, but he is a real jerk. His prices are way over MSRP, and he braggs about it when he rips people off. The one that really pissed me off, was when he ripped some little old lady off for her dead husband's $15,000 Winchester collection. He gave her $1500 bucks! This guy is my family, my blood, and I can't even stand him!

Instead, I have drive over 100 miles to get the stuff I need. I shop at this little gunshop, in Otsego MI, and I have to say they have the best prices on everything. He is amost the ideal gun dealer.

For the guys in MI
Schanz Supply
304 W. Allegan St
Otsego, MI 49078
616-692-2879 ask for Rick

[QuickDraw]

I was just at a local gun shop.Jeez louise!
The name of this store should be "How to be TAKEN (as in ripped off)
seriously at a gun store"!!
They had a Remington 700pss for $910.00!.The guy wouldn't budge.
I've been researching these for a couple of months and know I can do better.
Wolf .45 acp for $18.00 a box!
They will do a person to person transfer for $60.00,every other shop does them for $30.00.
I go out of my way to support local gun shops,but when THEY treat me like an idiot,I vote with my feet.
I gladly pay a few bucks more to the local guy,but if they think just because this is Marin County that:
A.Everybody is a freakin millionaire
B.Everybody is an idiot
C.Nobody knows what a fair price is..
I will continue to drive 50-100 miles for better treatment/service.
I did buy a couple of boxes of .44 spec.,but that will probably be
the last time they see my money!
Sometimes I think its the dealers who need lessons on being taken seriously.

QuickDraw

[iamkris]

Billy Sparks -- yes of course everything in the extreme is bad. I agree with your point. Likewise, I'm sure SteyrAug didn't mean it that way however there are WAY too many in the gun biz that look at outsiders as something pathetic or distasteful...then wonder why they're not attracting any new customers or why new gun legislation keeps passing in the House.

Keith -- outstanding supporting post.

Guys (and gals ;) , we need to be ULTRA inclusive or we will all hang separately. (Sorry Ben Franklin)

[Denver]

'Closest gun shop to me is run by an alarmingly rude individual. A bottle of lube or a box of ammo and I am on my way to a store that is GLAD to have me on their premises!

Next shop: Boutique prices, but pleasant, patient staff. The only NEW guns I have purchased have been from these guys, much further from home than is quite convenient.

Honey draws more flies than vinegar.;)

[Hkmp5sd]

Many local gun stores stay in business by repeat customers. Everyone else goes to Walmart or Sports Authority type stores. Get to know the local dealer and let him get to know you. If his ammunition and accessory prices are competitive with the chain stores, buy from him first. Even if you have to pay slightly more.

There was a time when the local gunshop was like Floyd's Barbershop on the Andy Griffith Show. People would drop in just to say hello and shoot the breeze with other shooters.

Being a FFL doesn't make the dealer an automatic expert in every firearm ever created nor an expert on the archaic writings of ATF. Let him know that you will help him if he has any questions. This especially applies to dealers that buy and sell used firearms.

[JeepDriver]

Boutique prices, but pleasant, patient staff.

The shop I use has the "boutique" prices, and isn't the closest to me.(Closest to work though) But they do deal with their regular cutsomers on a first name basis, their "Boutique" prices change quite a bit for their regular customers, (i.e Walther P22 I just bought for $260, I've seen it as low as $250 but that guy was a jerk, so he lost a sale) and they have an 14 lane indoor range attached! I could save a few dollars by shopping around, but it's really not worth it.

I'd rather give them the $10 difference. They know my name when I walk in (but I've also bought over 20 guns from them) and they are very flexable on their payment plan. It seams like I always have a gun in their safe that I'm paying on. :D

[kernal_panic]

i would add a couple of pointers: most of the guns i have bought in the last few years i have bought at steep discounts or at dealer cost.

1. find a freindly gun dealer who doesn't try to BF his costomers. this easy go to walmart buy shotgun news read it while doing your bathroom business and get a feel for what stuff costs remember to toss in an allowance for shipping.

2. be freindly. you might be able to make freinds. are you a mechanic orhave some sort of trade thats usefull? you scratch his back he'll scratch yours. i wound up with one of the best freinds i've ever had doing this.

3. go to the gouge show. find a freindly regular dealer there. he might need some weekend help especially if you are knowledgable and not an a-hole. i made another good friend out of a dealer doing this.

here is alist of guns i either own or have owned and what i paid:

apache 77- retail $126 at kmart age 17
turk mauser- $45
m44- $50
stripped ar15 dpms reciver $125 OTD at cost)
sar 2 $297 otd dealer coast
.380 makarov $200 full retail
smith m27 $180 (what the dealer had in it)
smith 915 (225 what the dealer had in it)
assembled dpms ar-15 lower- $285 otd retail
stripped century lower $115 (private sale)
smith 22a used $140 otd
1900 m96 swede all matching $122 otd (dealer cost)
1906 m96 $175 otd dealer cost
yugo m48 $100 otd retail
remington 582 used $47 otd (what the dealer had in it)

[Bill Hook]

I'd like to get a S&W model 27 for $180

[Standing Wolf]

The price is on the tag.

I've always figured that's the sucker price, and hardly ever pay it.

[XavierBreath]

I stopped shopping at one of my prefered gunshops today. In the past three years, I have bought several 1911's there, including a Gold Cup. I also bought a HK USP there. I bought a Kahr there. I do not haggle, and I do not expect special deals. I deal with cash and a smile.

I always thought I got a square deal there, and was happy with the guns I bought. I refered other customers, mostly women, their way, because they have two women who are shooters who work behind the counter. I never expected this dealer to know everything, and I never acted like I know everything either. I know all four owners of the store by name, although I do not expect them to remember mine. This is a Ma and Pa establishment.

Today I walked in with $800 cash to buy a unique Lightweight Commander that I had seen there earlier in the day. It was priced at $695. The extra money was for tax and ammo. I knew which pistol I wanted, and the deal would have been over in ten minutes. I was treated so rudely, and then so indifferently that I walked out of the store with my money. I will not shop there again. I did not NEED that pistol, I only wanted it. I did want it more than I wanted my $800 though when I went inside. I certainly did NOT want it enough to tolerate being treated like a second class citizen to get it.

I will not buy squat from a person who does not have the ability to conduct themselves in a polite manner. I don't expect much, just few manners while I conduct business. Today this owner not only lost a $3-400 profit on that pistol, but also any profit on any pistol he would have sold me in the future, as well as any word of mouth advertising he got from me at the range or the deer camp. I really don't give a *$%# if he was having a bad day either. I don't care if he is having PMS or a headache. I don't care if his antipsychotic meds ran out last week. I really don't give a good hoot in hades if his kids eat or if his wife is suing his butt off in his divorce settlement. Those are his problems, they are not mine. I do NOT have to deal with them. I went in to buy a pistol, not be his verbal punching bag. If he cannot sell me a pistol without being a jerk, I'll go find someone who can.

It is no wonder many people do not get into shooting, look at what they have to tolerate just to buy a gun. A gunstore's customers should be valued. There are to many antisocial marginal bigots in the gun business. If they tried to get a job selling anything anywhere else, they would be fired on the first day, or go broke if the were the owner. People who shoot need to simply stop putting up with a**holes behind the counter.

As it was, I took my $800 home and put it back in the safe. I'll go to Wal-Mart and buy AirSoft BB guns before I shop at that gun shop again. Better yet, I'll simply cross the river, go to another store, and order what I want closer to home. If I cannot find it in stock there, I'll get it on the net, and ship it to that friendlier FFL and pay his $25 fee. I would rather buy that way than put up with antisocial gunstore idiots again.

Thanks for the vent. It's not always the customer's fault. The customer does not owe the gunstore owner a thing until a deal is struck. The gunstore owners need to remember this. Patronage is a gift a customer gives a merchant. It is not owed to him by some divine right of business.

[Cosmoline]

My attitude is that unless the gun store takes me serious from the outset, they don't get my business. Any gun store that expects me to "prove" my worthiness to shop there or to be treated with respect will not get my business. Over the years this adds up to thousands and thousands of dollars. I do not want that going to some jerk who expects me to prove my knowledge of firearms, or who will degrade me if I ask questions (and lord knows those types are out there).

[ed dixon]

As to #1: When I was shopping for my CZ 75 Compact, I asked a well-stocked dealer about their price, how many came through, etc. He said "Well, you know exactly what you want. Most guys come in here just looking in the cases wondering out loud what they should get. They'll spend between $500 and $1000 before they walk out and it seems like they gave the purchase very little thought beforehand." I wondered if these were first-time buyers with noone to offer any guidance. Or first-timers who thought getting a gun would be "cool."

[MaterDei]

They know my name when I walk in

So, do they say "Yo, Jeep!", or do they call you "Mr. Driver"? :confused:

[LeonCarr]

LeonCarr School of Gun Buying rule #1: Do not give money to *********s. It is your money, it is portable, and your boots are made for walking. It amazes me how many small gun shop owners are trying to make a living, keeping up with inventory and the overhead associated with running a shop, and they act like complete d---heads towards their customers, and so does their staff. And they wonder why people leave their shop, never return, and go to Wal-Mart.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Valkman]

I think part of #1 is also knowing how to handle guns, besides knowing all you can. Several times since moving to Vegas I've stood there handling a 1911 or revolver, and the salesperson knows nothing about me at all - except that I do know how to handle a gun. I've had them "hand me off" to another salesperson and say something like "he's ok" and mean I wasn't covering everyone in the store with the Kimber I had. :)

There was a time when the local gunshop was like Floyd's Barbershop on the Andy Griffith Show. People would drop in just to say hello and shoot the breeze with other shooters.

There's a place like that here called Master's Shooter Supply. The owner Floyd knows alot of people and seems to have alot of long-time customers, and he sits around and banters with everyone. I usually find people in there who just came in to BS, sitting in a chair. It's neat to walk in and join right in with them. Floyd's prices are ok on most things, and horrible on other things, but I like to go in there and at least get some ammo or primers or something (since I moved here in September I've bought one gun and had him transfer 2 more). It's the kind of place where I know if I look around I'll beat the price, but I'd rather buy there. Just don't be in a hurry if Floyd's in the middle of a story! :p

[olyAR73]

Is it just me or are the Mom & Pop shop dealers as a rule more humble, respectful, and knowledgable? Being in the military, I move frequently and the first thing I do after relocating is search out the local small gun/knife/sporting good/smith shop.

I would gladly pay a little more for a little respect and knowledge, then go to a bigger sporting goods store, and get treated like crap by somebody who doesnt know squat about the products they sell.

The biggest problem I have found with the mom and pop dealers is getting out of the store in under 3 hours. I always hit it off with them and end up telling lies and war storys for hours on end...

[ScottS]

1. Know your guns. Research your intended purchase. Know the exact model and specification of your intended purchase whenever possible. Despite the myth dealers don't know everything.

Oh, it that what the myth is? I thought it was just the opposite.

Scott

[SteyrAUG]

Ok a LOT of people misunderstood me.

I never said you HAD to know everything about a intended purchase. My point was if you DO know what you are looking for and why things will be much better.

I don't know where some of you guys got things like "Any gun store that expects me to "prove" my worthiness to shop there or to be treated with respect will not get my business" from my post.

The post was meant to be insight from the other side and advice on how to purchase guns more effectively.

[BluesBear]

Large local store. VERY close to my home. The largest selection in the area. Prices are a teensey bit high but I hear that they do deal a little.
Been there window shopping a few times. Bought holsters, ammo, and a few other accessories from them. Happy so far.

Last month I walk in, and go over to the case with the used Semi-auto pistols. Clerk asks if he can help me. As I am browsing I answer, "Sure, I am looking for either a Colt Lightweight Commander, Enhanced Model in Blue or a Colt Government, Enhanced in Blue. Know where I might find either?"

Clerk answers something like, "Ain't seen one in a while, probably won't either since Colt stopped making handguns." Other clerk chimes in, "Sure is a shame about them going bankrupt."

:rolleyes: Oh brother! I'll just let this one slide by.

He then askes if there's anything else I'm interested in. I say "Smith & Wesson, 3" N frame, Blue Steel, no ports, in either .41 magnum or .44 magnum. Will buy both if I can find them as long as they're blue steel and in decent shape."

Einstein replies, "nothing like that right now. But check back in a few weeks we should be getting some MORE from the distributor by then."
:what:
I perk up and say "Oh really?!" (Secretly hoping that Lew Horton has once again shown S&W what the public really wants.)
Einstein says, "Yeah we get a few in every other month or so." :scrutiny:
"OK... Thanks, I'll check back in a few weeks."


Man, the older I get the more my moron tollerence diminishes. :fire:


Instead I bought a like new, Blued, Colt Government Enhanced, with box & papers, from a fellow THRer :) :) :)

[duckfoot]

AUG'

good post

[Geech]

You certainly don't have to answer if you don't want to, Xavier, but what happened that turned a favored gun shop into less than dirt?

[redneck2]

if you want to get the best price without sounding like a jerk, ask simply and politely (while looking a the price tag)

"Do you have room on this??"

Looking at a Model 700 .223 NIB condition at a local pawn shop. It was marked $275. I know the guy behind the counter real well

I asked "the question". He says "since you're a good customer, $225 and tax":D

$275 was a great price....$225 was greater

Got a 98% Marlin .22 mag with scope at the same shop for $90

As stated above, best advice I can give is "mind your manners". If he's a jerk, walk.

[wingman]

In truth I can only say I have seen only two good gun shops in my life time,
not sure if the business attracts the wrong type of dealer or they
become that way once in the business. :confused:

[stellarpod]

I patronize most of the "legitimate" shops in the area. Some are higher than others, but make up for the price difference in superior service and/or onsight range availability.

I don't expect to make the seller bleed. I respect his need to make a profit. But, I won't have my head knocked off either. My philosophy is simple: I want the best deal I can get without making that dealer run the other way the next time he sees me.

With guns, just like any other commodity, the spoils will always go to those who have done their homework, educating themselves as much as possible about the product they're looking for. The people I deal with at each shop know that I'm probably going to know what I need about a given firearm when I walk in the door. They also know me well enough to know that I'll be honest in asking when I DON'T have all the specs in hand.

Most importantly, they recognize the value of REPEAT business and don't try to retire off the first sale. They also know from experience that I'll continue to reward them for continued prompt, fair, polite and accurate service.

There is one shop here in OKC that posts prices that are insultingly high - ALWAYS well above retail, then give you a "today only deal" that brings the price down to the retail level. It took me about two minutes to recognize them for what they were. When I later encountered one of the owners in the midst of setting up yet another gun shop I decided to confront him about his methods. His response to me was, "Yeah, they're high. But you wouldn't believe how many people will pay those prices". :confused:

Now there's a man that knows nothing of the value of repeat business...

However, there must be enough idiots out there to not only keep him in business, but to generate enough revenue to allow him to open a new venue.

Makes me wonder about the intellegence of many of our shooting bretheren...

stellarpod

[Glock_PhD]

I like the thread it is interesting but I think it points out a major problem with gun ownership. That is getting into it. I know a lot of you bought your first gun from the local hardware/gun store when you were 12. That’s great but I have never seen a hardware/gun store. A lot of people today have to walk into these stores where you may or may not get a friendly and/or knowledgeable staff. That makes gun buying tough. Lets also not forget that this is an expensive hobby, and a gun is an investment. Yet why when a newbie walks into he store does the store owner get annoyed when someone just wants to look and handle a couple of different pieces. Hey maybe that would be an opportunity to offer a little friendly advice. Nothing complicated just something like you see that a single action this over here is a double action. That has a light trigger pull this has a heavier one. I don't pretend that they know everything but a little help will make someone feel at home. I know the location where I bought my first gun got my money for that very reason. Now In know that some stores certainly do this, but many don't. Being younger though I see that I often bare the brunt of the idiocy at times. We need to start being a more inviting group.

[Black Snowman]

Most of the gun stores in KC have redeaming features. How well you know the staff goes the longest way. My favorite dealer has one person who I don't like to deal with and it's been turning me off from them. The rest of the guys are great but when the odd man out asks if he can "help" I politely decline.

My closest store is also a range, and in one of the richest per-capita counties in the country. Almost everything is marked retail, and lots of people come in and pay it. But if you know what the guns worth, and tell them you know ;) they are more than happy to come down to a reasonable price to make the sale and be friendly about it the whole time.

At first I thought they were over-priced but I got to know them a little better and found out why they're the oldest gun store in town :) The Bullet Hole (http://www.thebullethole.com/), right next to the Hodgden offices.

[taoshooter]

I agree with iamkris to a point. I think the gunshops - if they want to stay in business for the long term - should have a policy of education for the customer. Everyone that walks into the gunshops doesn't have a base of knowledge (yeah THR :)) and you never know when someone who is considering buying their first gun - (and becoming a repeat customer, and buying supplies - and joining the NRA - and becoming politically involved eventually - and voting) could be turned off by a "get educated and then come in to buy" attitude. I see this particularly with females who might be intimidated from the start by even going into a gunshop. We need everyone we can get these days and courteous and helpful customer relations can not only help maintain a client base for the gunshop owner but also the voter base as well.

As for price: go to two or three shops if your lucky enough to have that many to choose from these days and compare - but I'd compare more than the price of the gun. I don't always buy from the shop that has the very lowest price - I'll pay a few dollars more to support the shop that is glad to see me walk in the door - whether I'm buying a gun or some grease that day.

[Preacherman]

I think the larger the store, the less "personal" the service. As a general rule of thumb, if there are more than four people (including the owner) working in the gunstore or gun department, it's been my experience that I'm "lost in the crowd" of customers. In the smaller places, one gets a lot more personal attention, I've found.

My favorite gun store is a combination gunshop/coin dealer in Pineville, LA. There's always a pot of coffee on the table, and sometimes donuts as well. Customers like me drop in weekly just to bat the breeze, even if we're not buying anything. The owner has a limited selection of guns on display, but freely offers to get anything we want at cost plus 5% (cost includes shipping, of course), provided we pay in advance. He gets out the distributor catalogs so we can see exactly what he's paying, and doesn't mind our borrowing the catalogs and browsing through them to see if there's anything we want. He also does transfers for a minimal charge (I've done about a dozen through him), and if you're a good customer, he'll often waive the charge altogether, because he knows he'll make money off you anyway. Basic gunsmithing services are available on site, and often will be free if one's a regular (e.g. if you buy a gun, the scope mounts will be put on and the scope bore-sighted for free). There's always a smile, a handshake or (in the case of the female staff) a hug for regulars, and we have a great time. Sure, I could get better prices on some guns elsewhere, but why should I even try when it's such a pleasure to do business there?

If any THR'ers find themselves down my way, let me know, and I'll take you round for a coffee and an hour of bull - er, story-telling... :D

[XavierBreath]

Geech,

What made one of my favored gunshops turn into less than dirt? They treated me like less than dirt. When I got back home, I wrote them a letter explaining what happened, since it will likely not make a difference if I do send it, I will cut and paste it here for your enjoyment. Now remember as you read it, I was a prior customer who dealt in cash oin the barrelhead. I do not haggle, I do not poormouth. I do not return pistols bitching, if it's broke, I fix it myself. I was a return customer. I was a referal source for their business. I know all four owners who work behind the counter by name.

Here's the letter.

On October 25, 2003, I came into your store to purchase a used Colt Lightweight Commander. I had noticed the
pistol earlier in the day, and at that time asked the salesman if your gunsmith could remove the slide of the pistol
so I could see the locking lugs. Your salesman informed me that this could not be done, as this was a special pistol.
Being a previous customer, I knew that this was not the case with a used pistol. Your store was busy at the time,
and your salesmen were trying to move your used stock to another case, so I decided to come back when things
were slower and speak with someone else.

Later in the day, around 4PM, I returned with $800 cash to buy this pistol. I again asked if your gunsmith could
remove the slide so I could see the locking lugs. This was done, and I was allowed to inspect the pistol, but not
without a lecture on how customers are never allowed to remove a pistol's slide. I took the lecture in stride,
although I had not asked to remove the slide. Remember, I asked your gunsmith to remove it for me. I found the
pistol to be in fair enough condition to pay the price you had marked. After your gunsmith reassembled the pistol
in the rear of the store, it was returned to the showcase by your salesman, and he left without a word to converse
with your other salesmen at the corner of the counter. I stood at your counter for around five minutes waiting for
anyone in the store to ask me if I wanted to buy this pistol.

Finally, an older saleslady asked me if she could help me. I explained what had happened, and she was apologetic,
but I was no longer in the mood to give your establishment any more of my hard earned money. I refuse to beg
anybody to sell me a pistol.

Thus far, this year alone I have bought two pistols from Diamond Gun, one a nickel plated Kahr K40, the other a
Colt Gold Cup. Both times I was ready with cash, and came away feeling as though I got a fair deal. I remain
happy with both of these pistols. I shoot regularly with friends here in Monroe, and am a member of two hunting
clubs. I also buy firearms at your two major competitors, who have better prices, but rarely the occasional unusual
used pistols I enjoy. I have encouraged friends to go to your store, telling them the prices may be a bit higher, but
the selection and friendliness makes up the difference. I have sent customers your way, including several nurses I
work with, who would prefer to talk to a woman when buying a gun.

Today I left your store with the distinct feeling that Diamond Gun does not want my business. Today you lost my
business not because of your prices, not because of your selection or the condition of your guns, but because your
employees treated me like I was a second class citizen instead of a customer. You call your establishment "the
friendly store." You should remember that there is no advertising like word of mouth. You have lost this loyal
customer. You have also lost any other customers I would have referred to you. I am taking the time to write to you
in the sincere hope that you will understand that a customer does not enter your store with the willingness to
endure rudeness to purchase a firearm. I entered your store today with cash in hand, knowing what I wanted, I had
made the decision to buy at the price you were asking, and then I was treated with such indifference that I left with
the intention of never returning. You could have made an additional $800 today. Instead you have gained another
person who will tell other potential customers to avoid your store. Think about that.



So there you have it Geech. Whether for a justified reason or not, I am able to choose where I spend my money. I am not a "always look never buy" customer. After I have bought over $1500 in pistols and likely $500 in ammo this year alone, you would think these nuts would remember my face. Even if they did not remember me, then they should have treated me like a customer instead of some scum wasting their time. Two other gun stores are actually closer to my home. I went to this one probably five times in the past year, each time buying something, and two of the sales were handguns. I was amazed at their actions, and I can say that it was not the same on prior occasions. The fact is though, I was treated like scum yesterday, when all I wanted to do was buy a pistol at the price marked. Once is enough to loose my business. No customer, whether browsing or buying should be lectured like a child, or scorned by salespeople.

[feedthehogs]

In the days of everything being a "MART" with large volume buys from manufacturers, some sellers make it very difficult to make any money.

Case in point. The local gun show has a dealer that started showing up about a year ago selling guns at or below dealer prices. After doing some research it turns out this dealer is related to a midwest distributor.
They are selling guns at 10% above the wholesale mark.

All the established store front dealers started losing business to this traveling dealer/dist. When customers would call to compare prices, the locals started to cop a real bad attitude which is understandable.
This practice according to most gun makers is supposed to be a no no but repeated calls did nothing. All they care about is selling guns and making money.

The US is a free market system, but these type of tactics are harmful to any business and its owners. Anyone who supports these businesses are helping to put small shops out.

A fare price is one thing, a giveaway is something else.

Before long the only place to shop will be Wal Mart. Then with competition gone, prices will rise. Consumers will get penalized down the road.

[TheeBadOne]

Good post.

[rapaz]

XavierBreath, I liked that letter.

I think a really critical test is how well a gun shop treats a "non-traditional" customer--you know, someone who isn't a "good old boy." Do they make women feel comfortable? How about minorities? Someone in a "Democrats for Dean" t-shirt? A young kid who is kind of clueless but well-meaning? The local queer-studies professor? Unless gun stores start doing a better job with customers like this (meaning, being welcoming enough that they walk in the door, much less stay), I don't think that things will improve.

Probably a good comparison is motorcycle shops. Used to be Harley, BMW, etc had stores that were dirty and smokey and all the good old boys could sit and chat at the counter all day with the owner, who would run you right out of the store if he didn't like you. Now, the manufacturers insist that all the showrooms be clean, more welcoming to women, and the owners have to be businessmen first, rather than dyspeptic grouches. Something got lost, sure, but a lot of people are buying bikes who never would have twenty years ago.

I love watching how gun stores treat my wife, for example. She is very gun-positive, but doesn't care about the technical side of things. She isn't going to stand there and say "let me see a gold-match with semi-ported bipod bolts" or whatever. How they treat her is sort of our litmus test for a gun store--if she is treated with respect and courtesy, it's a place we'll spend our money. If not, we go down the road.

I've found it about 50/50 for small stores vs big stores. I really like my local store here, but I've been in plenty where I was treated rudely and left in a hurry. The big chain discounter about an hour away is very nice, too--the sales drones are clueless, but they are courteous and have good customer service skills. The guys at the local walmart, on the other hand, are useless except for ringing up ammunition at the cash register.

[Keith]

I refuse to beg anybody to sell me a pistol

Xav,

That's it in a nutshell, isn't it? If you aren't going to be treated well, you might as well go down to the big "Mart" and buy there. You won't be treated well there either, but you can console yourself that you saved fifty bucks for enduring the indifference.

Please DO send that letter!

Keith

[BigG]

In addition to lacking in the social graces, ahem, seems like the store people ought to try to close the sale.

I refuse to beg anybody to sell me a pistol.

Once they have complied with your request to field strip all they have to do is ask you if you would like some ammunition to go with your new pistol.

[XavierBreath]

Thanks for the support fellows! I printed and mailed the letter.

I like your analogy between the bike shops and gun shops. Just like there are people buying bikes today that would not have twenty years ago, the same is true of guns. When you look at SASS as recreation, the prices of lower end but decent handguns, then the rise of crime along with the ability to carry concealed legally, many, many women and minorities are arming themselves. The good old boy shooter is not the same market share he used to be. If the Mom & Pop establishments do not want learn to cater to a different kind of customer's needs, they will loose their customer base in the next decade. That is bad for us all.

FWIW, my favorite gunstore is also a hardware store (imagine THAT!) with an indoor range. They give hunter safety courses, CCW courses and personal protection courses. The owner, gunsmith, and most of the counter guys know me by name, and even recognize my voice on the phone. Their new stock is great, but the trade-in stuff I really like is lacking at times. The good thing about their trade-ins is that I can take a prospective purchase in the range and shoot it. These folks remember me, my wife, and our little girl by name from the very first purchase. My little girl gets a free sucker each trip. It's an old fashioned establishment where the folks love to shoot, and they have the gun section of the store for that reason. The owner has said he makes no real money on guns, he just likes them. He makes his money selling hardware. This is the place that gets most of my money.

[iamkris]

<Family Feud game show mode on>

Survey says...**DANG**...majority of posters on this thread think there are lots of dealers that need to learn a lesson or two on how to stay in business

</Family Feud game show mode off>

Steyr -- whether you meant it this way or not, it appears that you unleashed lots of pent up "fed-up-ness" from our fine membership at gun dealers

[rapaz]

I'm not too worried about whether the dealers with poor customer service skills stay in business. I am VERY worried about the future of firearms ownership in this country if (some) gun dealers keep trying their hardest to support anti-gun groups. By support I mean not inviting and welcoming new types of customers and at the same time perpetuating every bad anti-gun stereotype. (You know, guns are owned only by gang-bangers and chaw-chewin' white guys who don't like furriners and coloreds.) You can like it or dislike it, but even the most casual look at demographic trends in the US tells you that having a client base that narrow is a recipe for disaster.

Three trends stand out to me: 1) More women in the workforce with control over their own money (don't need to ask hubby for permission to buy expensive items). 2) More women unmarried, with or without children (no one else to rely on for protection or back-up). 3) Because of immigration, birthrates, and intermarriage, more and more US citizens (with full 2nd amendment rights) are not white. These trends mean that if guns are allowed to become synonymous with Turner Diaries-reading racial purists who dress like rambo, legal gun ownership is going the way of the dodo. Reframe guns as "normal" rather than paraphenalia of the far right, and there would be some hope.

Honestly, I think that, just as with motorcycles, the manufacturers are going to have to police their operations more. (I know, I know, they don't want to because of end-use lawsuits. But hiding behind distributors is hurting them in the long-run.) Insisting that dealers provide trained staff, well-laid out stores, and good service will undoubtedly drive some small operators out of business. But I'd happily accept that if it means that twenty years from now I can still buy guns with relative freedom. Gun distribution right now is also critically exposed over the issue of "straw dealers" (I might have the name wrong--I mean the guys who make a living selling guns to bad guys). The DC sniper case, for example, is featuring prominently in the pro-AWB ads. Either the industry needs to self-police, or the brady people will be happy to do it for them.

Man, I'm pessimistic today, aren't I?

[iamkris]

Pessimistic but correct...:(

[280PLUS]

when i whip out my plastic money,,,

;)

[Futo Inu]

Thanks for the info, Steyr. However, my guide is much simpler:

Walk into gun store. If not taken seriously, leave and find another one. Repeat if necessary.

I may be knowledgeable about gun x and y, but not z. That is part of the reason I GO to the gun store; to learn things. If they are not willing to help in detail, right off the bat, with newbish questions, then I go to a store where they will (around here, I go to H&H and talk to Will). Why should I research beforehand? If I'm going to research first, fine, but then I'm not going to pay gun store prices. If I research first, then I'll buy from gunbroker or whathaveyou. I have an FFL that does transfers for $10. They can answer my newb questions with a smile or than can kiss my skinny white rearend.

[4v50 Gary]

Some folks succumb to the glitzy products at the supermarket checkouts. Sale items line the corridors towards them and are at eye level. Bold ads leap out to you touting the product.

Me, I fall prey to impulse buying at gunshops. Don't need a thing but who says it's about need. Ask to see is for me is almost a declaration of it's mine and if you touch, you die. So it was for the Marlin Model 92 that I bought this year. I asked to see and before I even handled it (it was placed on the counter), we started discussing the price. I bought it without handling it. One of these days I'm going to find that brand of soap that washes the "I'm a sucker and I've got money to blow" off my forehead. Was once told to wash the eyes but having tried it and finding that it stings, cannot personally recommend it. Rather, it's a good thing that gas is about $2 a gallon (still) and that I limit my drives to the gunshop (17 miles away). That more than anything else has curtailed my buying. Now, if I can only keep away from these internet offers...

BTW Steyr-Aug, when are we getting our Barretts? I still want a M-82.

[Futo Inu]

"Ask to see is for me is almost a declaration of it's mine and if you touch, you die."

LOL - so I guess the sales clerk gets a big smile about the time you say "can you take that out of the display case for me." ??

[sw442642]

It is unfortunate that modern business practices may eliminate smaller mom and pop stores. But that is marketing progress. I must say that I've found most small stores not to be that pleasant. The gun industry rags continually talk about the lack of marketing and sales acumen of the small store.

I would disagree about bargaining. A real salesperson should be able to answer a question about price realistically. If I ask if that is your best price - if you get huffy - you are an idiot.

I went into a gun store out of town (but in the same state) and saw an SW revolver than was nice. It was market for $350. I said: Hey, I like that gun but I'm in town for one day and won't come back to look at it repeatedly. What can you do for me? Sold at $325.

At a show, looking at a shotgun - What can you do for me? What, do you expect me not to make a profit - blah, blah.

A few tables away - same gun, make the sale for $10 less. Guy was polite.

[Stevie-Ray]

My attitude is that unless the gun store takes me serious from the outset, they don't get my business. Any gun store that expects me to "prove" my worthiness to shop there or to be treated with respect will not get my business. Over the years this adds up to thousands and thousands of dollars. I do not want that going to some jerk who expects me to prove my knowledge of firearms, or who will degrade me if I ask questions (and lord knows those types are out there). Very true. Several years ago, I went into a range and got a absolutely arrogant attitude from the proprietor in front of his "buddies," who chortled in a bootlicking fashion. Fine, just paid my fee and went into the range. Later he walked through the range and stopped behind my lane appearing to be checking out my targets and equipment. I paid him no mind, but later as I exited the airlock, he suddenly appeared to want to be my friend. By then I had stewed for an hour and was openly hostile, pretty much giving him the same treatment I got when I arrived. His "buddies" were silent. I've never been back. His loss.

One of the ranges I frequent now was started by a cop, and a total package in gun range ownership. He was knowledgeable, friendly, helpful, and an overall good guy. Alas he has passed into retirement, and his replacement is a little more arrogant, albeit not as bad as the one above. Another is run by several guys. So far, 1 has shown himself to suffer from this affliction. Since I don't know who owns the place, I'll just deal with the majority. Besides, it's too nice a range to ditch.

[Ivanimal]

The gun store 10 blocks from my house has not seen me in 4 years. I thank them for being rude to me and having me search out new stores. I dont always know everything about the guns I am looking at but I need the ability to ask simple questions regarding them.

[BluesBear]

Ivanimal,

Drop in and give them a chance again. Maybe they have changed.

If not, thank them again and remind them how much money you have spent somewhere eles in the past 4 years. :neener:

After all if it wasn't for their rudness you might not have discovered all of those other places that DO treat you well and that DO get your money. :evil:

[TonyB]

Here's my gunstore story....
One place is great to me...I've spent money there and have recommended it to friends....made me a great deal when I bought my Glock17.......kind of far away tho....
another place.....(closed down by ATF:D )manager/owner wouldn't take back a grip I bought 1 day earlier....I didn't even want money back,just ,maybe some ammo....never went back there...
3rd place ...jerky people in the beginning,tried again later and became friends w/ the manager...got some good deals...spent lots of money..everybody wins.....he has left the store and now it's hard to deal w/ the new guys(although they are starting to know me and the fact that I spen money)
For me it's all about respect.....I'm not rich nor do I look it,but I DO spend lots of my money on gun stuff...maybe I don;t buy $1000 guns,but I have bought 10 guns in 3 years........The worst answer you can get an a gun store is "I don't know"....followed by..........nothing...no"I'll check into it"or"let me get so and so".......you would think that people skills are a must in ANY retail...especially gun stores.where people arn't buying something they NEED.......just me I guess:cool:

[SB1]

As you can see I live in NYC. (well just moved so I am just outside of NYC) and I have a local shop within 10 minutes travel time. And they are nice to me! I did let them know that I am new to guns but at the same time I am looking for this and that. They were very patient, informative, and never pushy or discouraged me. They answered all of my questions and at the end of the day we both decided this was gonna be good business. After my purchase, he mentioned to me some things I need to take care of with the county (purchase slips etc) told me where to go, who to contact, etc. Threw in about 150 rounds of ammo to boot. I have been in there at least three times since and always had the same experience. Now I don't think I got anything for free but I no longer have any anxiety about walking in and asking questions.

[Andrew Rothman]

When I walked into GunStop in Minnetonka, MN for the first time, I found a bunch of guys BS-ing around the gun counter. I honestly couldn't tell who was a customer and who was an employee.

I asked to look at a couple of items and was obliged.

Shortly after I arrived, their pizza delivery arrived. One of the guys said, "Hey, you're not going to insult us and not have a slice, are ya?"

These guys deliberately ordered enough pizza to feed not only the staff, but the customers in the store around dinner time!

They cheerfully put up with my lookey-looing for another couple of visits before I actually bought a gun. I asked politely and with a smile if that was their best cash price, and they answered politely and with a smile that it was.

I'll be back. I like these guys.



The staff at the Frontiersman in Hopkins is a little more reserved, but still helpful and accomodating. Their prices are quite good, too!



Bill's Gun Shop and Range in Robbinsdale, the biggest in town, I think, has more stereotypical blowhard, know-it-all gun store clerks and pretty high prices besides. I took my CCW class there, bought a ten-pack of range tokens, a holster and a case of ammo.

Still, the service is indifferent. You have to go to them for assistance -- they don't come to you.

And once I've used up the range time I've paid for, they may not see me again.

[edittted fer speling!]

[Detachment Charlie]

One of the gun shops I will patronize is also a pawn shop, but very heavily into firearms. I've seen the owner do something on several occassions when an "unknown" comes in and asks to see a hand gun. No problem, he hands them the piece. If it's an auto, it has a magazine in it. If it's a wheel gun, the cylinder is closed.
If the first thing the "unknown" does when handed the piece is drop the magazine or open the cylinder, things seem to go a lot smoother and friendlier.
Another place, strictly a gun shop, asking to see a piece in the case is like asking the owner if you can spend the night at Motel 6 with his pre-teen daughter.

[MaterDei]

Another place, strictly a gun shop, asking to see a piece in the case is like asking the owner if you can spend the night at Motel 6 with his pre-teen daughter.

At Motel 6? I'd be offended too.:eek:

[Kobun]

That is all so true.

My experienses has got me fed up with customers!
They are always whining about the price, even if it is below MSRP! :mad:

So, now they will get what they deserve, less accessability to guns and ammo.
In the future, I will only have a few select brands, that I import, and they can't get anywhere else.
So, they will pay the price I set. It will be a fair price, but one where I can make a living.
So, if they need ammo or "hunting" firearms, they can go to (todays) competitors, that actually charge more than I do today.

I just don't understand what goes on in peoples heads!
Atleast I understand guns to some extent. ;)

[BluesBear]

If you are the seller:

Q) How To Be Taken Seriously At Gun Shop

A) Buy and open one yourself then treat your customers with respect and consideration.

You could also, along with all of those Colt, S&W, HK, etc,etc stickers that dealers put on their doors, put up a nice sign saying "THR Welcome"
:D




If you are the buyer:

Q) How To Be Taken Seriously At Gun Shop

A) Walk in with a smile on your face as well as one in your heart and try to make a new friend.

If this doesn't work, politely leave and try other places until you find like minded folk. It may take a while, but it will be worth it and besides it's the right thing to do. :)

[DualBerettas]

like the guy who said a fews years back the BEST he could do FOR my PREBAN Benelli Super 90 with sling, side saddle, nylon case, etc. was $550!!!! Similarly a gun shop here sells HKS speedloaders for $12.95!!!

I get them at the gun show for 4 bucks!

DB

[braindead0]

I guess I've been really lucky.. being a big hairy biker lookin' dude works to my advantage at times...

[marklbucla]

Seeing some of your responses has made me feel a bit better, I guess.

From the way that I was treated before, I was really under the impression that it was a racial thing. Probably some lasting anger from Pearl Harbor or something.

Things have been better lately because it looks like most of the "bad" staff has been replaced, but I still would not have any problem with giving all my business to the big sporting goods stores if they carried all the stuff I wanted.

[ninjaj448]

Service with a smile vs near distributor prices? Well, I'm cheap and I'm grumpy, so I'll take the low price as I can get a smile at the bank.

Today, a co-worker and I checked 5 gun shops in Southeast Michigan for availability and price on a Smith 642. The price ranged from $499 at a 'friendly' shop(according to a Michigan members only message board)to $339 at a shop many consider to have pee-poor customer service and an 'attitude'. The attitude shop is small, has a vast inventory and is very busy most of the time. They generally don't have time for BS'ing and we understand that. So tomorrow we are both heading there to score a 642 each(gotta love the Michigan CPL and a credit card).

[AUTIGER04]

Money gets attention.;)

[rapaz]

Money gets attention.

You'd really think so, wouldn't you? But sadly, most of the complaining posts in this thread are variations on "I wanted to buy a gun, but they were rude, so I took my money elsewhere."

Strange business model, turning away customers, if you ask me.

[STONER]

In this thread, and any other concerning guns shops & prices, there is always talk about "cheap", "way too high", "reasonable", etc, etc. I am curious as to what everyone considers a " reasonable " dealer mark up to be, both in terms of Dollar amount, and in Percentage for: A. Guns, and B. Ammo & Accessories.

I am sure everyones opinions will vary, some greatly, some very close. But I think it will be interesting to see what everyone thinks.

[Oleg Volk]

What gets me is that the best service and attitude in Minneapolis metro area coincide with the best prices. Pretty much all of my business went to GunStop when I lived near it...and it was a longer drive to go there than to go elsewhere.

When I walked into GunStop in Minnetonka, MN for the first time, I found a bunch of guys BS-ing around the gun counter. I honestly couldn't tell who was a customer and who was an employee.

I asked to look at a couple of items and was obliged.

Shortly after I arrived, their pizza delivery arrived. One of the guys said, "Hey, you're not going to insult us and not have a slice, are ya?"

These guys deliberately ordered enough pizza to feed not only the staff, but the customers in the store around dinner time!

They cheerfully put up with my lookey-looing for another couple of visits before I actually bought a gun. I asked politely and with a smile if that was their best cash price, and they answered politely and with a smile that it was.

I'll be back. I like these guys.

[Dr.Rob]

I had a dealer, Rob from Rob's guns handle a special order I did from Davidson's. I had bought a Colt Magnum Carry from Rob about a year ago, and he remembered it as it's the only one he's ever seen through the store.

Rob did my paperwork, informed me there would be a 45 minute wait on the instacheck.. and got me a cup of coffee, showed off just about every gun and knife in the store.

It was 5 pm on a Thursday, and I gather Rob didn't make but a few dollars off the sale, but you know what? I'd buy from him again in a heartbeat. Rob's is a small shop, and there is a small "visiting area" off in a corner with and ashtray and a couple of chairs just for that reason, when i bought the Colt, it sort of "interrupted" the bull session going on in the corner.. the good old boys were sort of wondering which one of them woulf break down and buy it.. and here I was plunking down the plastic. Shook several hands that day.

I've found even some of the higher priced shops can have a face lift now and again. The stuff in the used case at the FiringLine seems to have stabilized in price, and sometimes ...well its a busy shop and you really do have to ask to be waited on. But then again I'm a long haired art director in a pakistani leather jacket that looks like it was dragged to the store behind a truck.

Point is, I coould dress better. You want to make a good impression? Try a little friendly business casual attire rather than the "kill 'em all" t-shirt or backwards ball cap.

Anyway back to The Firing Line, I've bought several weapons from them and a number of holsters/accessories over the years. TFL is the ONE shop that let me TRY every holster with MY pistol to get a good fit. I was careful not to scratch up the floor models, but was left more or less alone to "play" after explaining my initial needs (IDPA). I've never had another shop let me go through their holsters like that, and that was pretty cool.

Fact of the matter is when buying new guns, the dealer doesn't make a great deal of $$ on each individual sale, its the $$$ he makes in repeat business for ammo, accessories and clothes where he makes a bigger profit. Cost +5% won't keep the lights turned on.

Making a trip back to Rob's next week.. he's got something in his consignment case I want.

[swingset]

In this thread, and any other concerning guns shops & prices, there is always talk about "cheap", "way too high", "reasonable", etc, etc. I am curious as to what everyone considers a " reasonable " dealer mark up to be, both in terms of Dollar amount, and in Percentage for: A. Guns, and B. Ammo & Accessories.

I can answer that. "Cheap" is at or close to dealer cost. Seldom is this to be had locally, but it's what I also call "mail order" priced. It doesn't account for retail overhead and cost of doing smaller quantities, but it's a great deal if and when you can find it.

"Way too high" is more than 30% markup on a gun. No excuses, no BS, that's too high in a competitive market like guns. WAY TOO HIGH. If you can't sell below that, you aren't smart enough to stay in business.

"Reasonable" is easy - 15% over cost, or thereabouts. Or, "Reasonable" is service that makes up for or exceeds the cost of the gun. Example: A shop that has a 1 week money back on firearms makes up for a high tag.

[XavierBreath]

I agree with Swingset's cheap, reasonable and to darned high ranges.

I deal a lot with used pistols. That makes the price variable according to scarcity, desirability, condition, and of course the seller's own knowlege. If the pistol is between $500 and $1000 I look for a price within $100 of the Blue Book. Below $500 I look for within $50 either way of the Blue Book price. If a pistol has custom features THAT I WANT I will figure the cost of doing them into the price minus 30%. One thing to understand is condition is everything in the used market. Condition is very subjective, and can be affected by the scarcity of the pistol. Finally I consider my chances of running into this pistol for sale again, and my desire to have it. I try to take the price out of that equation and look at my desire objectively.

No dealer can really compete with SGN on prices, but most will order your pistol from SGN for you if you pay postage and transfer fees and don't act like a jerk if you're unhappy.

I think a lot of guys feel they have been shafted when they buy new and then go to trade in their pistol a year later. They simply are not expecting the difference between that NIB dealer's price and their trade-in offer.

[foghornl]

I have a favorite loacl gunshop that i use for almost all my purchases. WHY?

Guys behind the counter are friendly, courteous, knowledgeable. And mostly because whenever I go in there, they ALWAYS treat me like I am their biggest customer, no matter what I buy. From a single $2 brush, or even nothing at all, all the way up to 2-guns at a time.

Last weekend, I went into a fairly new [regional chain] sporting goods store, with their just released that day ad. I pointed out that I was interested in the Ruger 50th Anniversary Single-Six, as shown in their ad. Idiot behind counter says "We don't sell handguns".

"What are those things in this glass case between you and me?"

"Display only. We don't sell handguns"

Did I mention the guy STUNK? ? I don't mean his attitude, the guy had an "air" about him that would make skunks & maggots barf. I stopped at service desk and had a chat with manager, relating that they would not get another dime from me, ever.

[ninjaj448]

Dr.Rob has a point. The assessories thing.

In went into a well-known gun shop in southest Michigan last year to pick up a holster for a Colt M1908. While going through the bulk holster bin, I mentioned I was interested in a .40 S&W caliber Beretta, just sorta feeling around. Well they just happen to have a 9000S on hand; we dealt and I said to write it up. Before I finished my piece of the 4473, the dealer or shop owner had several holsters, various boxes of ammo and, I do believe,
a 1 3/4" belt laying on the counter along with my new purchase. I asked if that all went with the sale with a smile; he smiled and put it away. A little further chat and I'm about to leave and he mentions cleaning rods, brushes, patches. etc.

I guess the point is, they were looking to add another $100-150 to the sale and I do believe this was because I was using plastic. The ironic thing is, I forgot the M1908 holster I came in for; so did they.

[BluesBear]

foghornl,

I would have laid two Ben Franklins on the counter and said,
"Hey Sparky, see those? They're just for display, I don't actually spend them." :evil:

[foghornl]

BluesBear:

GREAT IDEA ! ! ! What a comeback for an obvious dip-****.

I don't always have a snappy answer like that ready for those that truly deserve it. One would think, though, that with the ad on hand, and handguns in the display case, complete with price tags, you should be able to get a better answer than "We don't sell handguns"

And no, I was not in Madison, Wisconsin. The ad stated they do not sell handguns in Madison due to local ordinances.