[New Smokie]

I have been lurking for the past few months and gathering alot of very useful information on Black Powder Shooting.Thanks for all the information!
But now I'm looking for some information on shooting muzzle loading shotgun.
I recently purchased a navy arms double barrel 12 ga. but it did'nt come with a owners manual and I hav'nt had any luck contacting Navy Arms,They responded with they had no information to give to me.Does anyone have any experience with this shotgun,types of loads,is it safe to shoot buck and ball,buckshot?Thanks for any help you have to offer

[TomADC]

Try Dixie Gun Works they always helped me.
I'll check their catalog they usually show loading data for the guns they sell if that is what you are looking for.

[mykeal]

Navy Arms does publish online versions of some guns in the form of .pdf files. The sxs shotgun is one of those; it's available at the bottom of this page. (http://www.navyarms.com/manuals.html) Unfortunately the loading data page is not included.

I have one of these shotguns; it's actually made by Pietta. I have not done any significant loading testing; so far I've just done some sporting clays using 75 gr ffg and 1 1/8 oz No. 7 shot. This load was satisfactory but there may be much better ones.

[Fingers McGee]

Does anyone have any experience with this shotgun,types of loads,is it safe to shoot buck and ball,buckshot?Thanks for any help you have to offer

Back in my mountainman days my normal load for the shotgun was 70 gr ffg, over powder card, lubed cushion wad, 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2 or 8 shot. Pretty much the same load I started using for my CAS 12 ga loads. Buck and ball and buckshot loads are safe.

[higene]

I have been interested in BP shotguns. They don't seem as popular as other BP platforms. I wanted to get a TC Cherokee, a Gibbs-Mortimer (Pedersoli) or possibly a flintlock fowler. The TCs seem almost an urban myth - very hard to find. The Gibbs-Mortimer are beautiful but seem a tad spendy. The flintlocks seem a very personal choice.

I would like to experiment a little before I drop a grand on a guess.

My current plan is to try to find some BP shotgunners and see some in action.

I lean toward single barrels because I think I would be better to have one good shot than a second one through a cloud of BP smoke. Plus doubles always have disadvantages and a very narrow use for the second shot IMHO.

Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.

Higene

:scrutiny:

[mykeal]

The doubles may have a very narrow use for the second shot, but as narrow as it is, it's still a lot wider than the singles have.

[CAMPBELL49T]

Smokie, I have a muzzle loading 12x12 shotgun. I have had out shooting a lot. It is a real kick in you know where. The guys on THR helped a lot. and I have a web site for you to check out, might even learn somethings. Like I did.......

circlefly.com

Good Luck and you will never have so much fun. when you take trapping or just to the range. Everybody loves it and wants to shoot it.

Have fun

[New Smokie]

Thanks for all the feedback , Where I live you can only use shotguns loaded with buckshot for deer hunting and I have really gotten into blackpowder the last couple years and would love to be able to use this .

[CAMPBELL49T]

Smokie. Do you know how close you would have to be to kill a deer with buck shot. You might as well use a Buck Knive.

Good luck,

[arcticap]

Does anyone have any experience with this shotgun,types of loads,is it safe to shoot buck and ball,buckshot?

An owner on another forum posted about the fine accuracy of his Navy Arms double barrel shotgun. It could shoot a .69 caliber patched round ball from each barrel within inches of each other on a target at 50 yards.

[Das Jaeger]

"Plus doubles always have disadvantages and a very narrow use for the second shot IMHO."
Higene wrote . .....

Say what ! What disadvantages are you referring to if you don't mind sharing that ? And always ? Come again ?

Personally , I have takin more game and clays with SxS shotguns than any other of my shotguns , my preferred platform obviously for reasons I find to be fact . First is they handle the best in my hands , therefore I shoot the best with them .

I handled the Pedersoli at Cabelas not too long ago , the 20 ga. BP double , what a dream cake shotgun that was , light , ballanced , and beautifull work ,a bargain at $800 .

If money is tight for you like the rest of us , Stoeger puts out a fine double too , and you can run BP shell loads all day long in it . A real workhorse. I love shootin clays at short range in BP ( mini's ) with the Coach Gun from them , awsome fun . :D
I have never had a problem with smoke getting in the way of a second shot , the bird is never flying in the line of the first bird after the first bird hits the ground anyway, trust me . In CASS I could see it being a possible issue though ?

Buy a double , there are no drawbacks I can see ? Except you'll want more than one after you get one ! :D

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/5150kelly/100_0435-1-1.jpg

You can spend little money on a decent Double and make it into something special with some labor is all . Turned this $350 Stoeger Shotgun into my favorite mini clays gun , in BP no less , tooooo much fun .

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/5150kelly/100_0437-1.jpg

Das Jaeger :D

[higene]

In the field making sure you uncap the un shot barrel while reloading the (correct) one which has been fired.

Dumping two loads before moving in a vehicle or going home.

Have you ever needed a follow up on a BP double in the field?

Higene

:scrutiny:

[Das Jaeger]

I shoot all the quail a gun will let me :D
Doves too , if I had ten barrels I would realy be in good shape . :D
Am thinkin you just don't like Doubles much and prefer Singles , which is good too , its all good .:D

Das Jaeger

[Smokin_Gun]

well I can tell ya a SxS 12ga can drop a Whitetail at 50yds in Upstate New York in the Adirondaks near Debar Mt. with 00Buckshot from the modified barrel...it dressed at 220/lbs.
Dang ... all this BP Shotgun talk and ain't been well enough to get out and POP Jackrabbits or Rattlesnkes here in the Mojave Desert with my Pedersoli 10ga SxS front stuffer...ain't got to shoot it yet even... But I surely will "The good Lord Willin' and the River don't Rise." :O)

Please keep this thread a goin' I like this stuff...

[oneiron]

The secert to black powder shooting is the dram=60grs. A full charge is three (3) drams of black powder charge and a load of one (1 1/8) oz in a 16gage gun and 11/2 oz for the twelve gage. I have never fired a 10 gage, but my grandfather's 10ga gun used four drams of powder and 2 oz load.
I have a 16 gage double trigger greener Lock with Damasus barrels. I don't shoot it any more it is 90 years old.

[CAMPBELL49T]

SMOKIN GUN, I guess I was wrong about the deer. But you do have to get close. I'm not that quite. Was there a lot of shot to pick out?

[wild willy]

higene the TC cherokee is a rifle The new englander is the shotgun I have and hunt with both single shot and double barrels. IMHO the advantages of the double far outweight the disadvantages

[higene]

I am really reading with interest about BP shotguns. I have very little experience with them. My current first place gun is a Pedersoli double. I think I would be very happy with a New Englander. I am also taking a long look at a Mortimer and a Sitting Fox Left fowler (flintlock).

I am not against anything. I'm trying to figure what would work best for me.

I thank you all for your patience and opinions.

Higene

[mykeal]

The secert to black powder shooting is the dram=60grs. A full charge is three (3) drams of black powder charge and a load of one (1 1/8) oz in a 16gage gun and 11/2 oz for the twelve gage.
Nope. 1 dram = 27.3 grains, not 60.

[Smokin_Gun]

Was there a lot of shot to pick out?


I don't recall asI was jus' a youngin' my Father and Grandfather dressed it out...I was still learnin' washin' cleanin' and wrappin' meat. But I do remember that moment.:what:

I know Birds, rabbits. Geese, and duck and the like have quite alot farther kill range and pattern.
I'm out here it the Mojave and the Mule Ear Deer weigh about 90 pounds and live in some pretty rugged terrain...
Not much grass to graze on so I don't even bother...I'd feel like I was shootin' a Dog.
But Jack Rabbits are alot of fun and a challenge...I've seen a 6' man carryin' one by the rear feet above waist level and the ears draggin' the ground.
Some Jacks wear size 9 Nikies, carry a canteen and an Uzi runnin' at 50MPH across the Dessert... I swear ... well the Sun can get to you out here Hee! Hee! :O)

[Ratdog68]

LOL That "crooked-legged-chicken" huntin' sounds like a pile of fun.

[oneiron]

Mykeal, depends which weight system you wish to express a Dram in. Apothecaries weight a unit equal to 60 grains(1/8 ounce), but you are right too.

[eastbank]

i used double barrel muzzle loaders for years and liked them , but as i got older i bought a tc new englender 12ga single barrel and i realy like it. true i do miss a few things because of the single shot,but not meny and it extends the hunt and thats what it is for me any more not just the kill. eastbank.

[Das Jaeger]

If you do go with a single eventually rather than a double , that Mortimer is one bad mama jamma :D Very classy scattergun there . They sure know what they want for um too ! :D But they sure do look nice . I would just love to shoot a round of clays with that dude there . A very SLOW round , hee hee hee :D

Jaeger :)

[eastbank]

a group of us shot a round of trap with black powder shells one of our members loaded a few shells with black powder as a joke one time and we ask him to load a few boxes for us to try at our sportsman club,and boy was it fun. but the scorer had to keep moving as the smoke drifted this way and that due to a very light wind. we didn,t hit them all as a matter of fact the scores were from 6 to 14. after we cleaned up and went to the club house for a drink, several men came in later aad ask of some one had pooped them selfs on the trap range. we laughed and told them no,we had just shoot a round with black powder. pic,s are of me unloading my old doublebarrel after a day hunt and the newelander i now use. eastbank.

[gjkershul]

Since moving to Idaho six years ago, more time to hunt (due to retirement), a good pointer, and excellent pheasant hunting opportunities have directed my upland game hunting to all black powder.

Years ago I bought myself a left hand T/C 12ga. New Englander (left eye dominance) with screw in chokes and used it a bit for Ruffed Grouse hunting in the Midwest. A good day was 10 flushes and two shots at birds. A good retriving dog was a necessity. 80 grs of 3f and 1 1/4 of sixes seemed to work best with an open bore.

Here in the Golden West a modified choke, 90grs of 3f, a standard fiber shot column and thin overshot card or paper shot cartridges with 1 3/8 of copper plated fours over an excellent pointer got me my limit whenever we found birds.

A friend gave me an Old Belgian open bore 10 double-proofed in the 1870's- which I restored and the fun began. I had to relearn the lessons I had garnered shooting open bore trade gun than less is sometime better for black powder paterns. After one bird season with just so so results I found
that 95 gr of 1F and 1 1/2 of hard fours brought the birds down best.

A trip to a pawn shop with my wife who wanted to look at jewlery resulted in the aquisition of a 1984 marked CVA 12 light open bored double that is a delight to carry and harvests pheasants well with 80grs of 2f and 1 1/4 of hard fours.

This Fall, I plan to use my 11ga Brown Bess with 90 to 100 grs of powder and 1 1/2 or 1 5/8 shot for at least some of my pheasnt hunting. I figure it will at least give my cartridge using hunting companions something to talk about.

This load was also good for fox squirrels.

Enjoy, and be prepared to try things until you get the performance you want.

[SHIPCHIEF]

Thanks for that.
I have a T/C NewEnglander in 12 ga cylinder comming. That load data will be a help getting started.
I'm thinking to make it a combo gun by picking up a rifled barrel for it too.
I usually shoot T/C White Mountain Carbine & Renegade in 54 caliber in various mini's MAXI's, REAL's. And the ocasional patched round ball from a Cabela's Interarms Hawken.
I finally broke out and tried my Traditions deer stalker 32 caliber afer years sitting in the safe collecting dust. What a hoot. I'm hoping the NewEnglander 12 will be more of the same.

[SHIPCHIEF]

Has anyone used (or shamelessly copied) the Fin stabilized discarding sabot slugs from Sauvestre? ...
Seems like a natural for muzzle loading, black powder shotgunning, each shot being a "hand load".
I guess I'll make some up on the lathe, attach some fins and try them in my New Englander 12 Ga cyl. With 50 grains 2f for a start? :scrutiny: :uhoh:
Fin stabilizing could extend the range of our smooth bore guns, even those Brown Bess types. (WoaH!! Never Shot Like THAT Before!!!???):what:
What do you guys think? Would the projectile be too heavy?