Summer 2009 THR hunting rifle match


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R.W.Dale
August 1, 2009, 06:42 AM
see post #2 below for rules

Current match leaders
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/leaderboardsmallbore.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/leaderboardmediumbore.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/leaderboardlargebore.jpg

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R.W.Dale
August 1, 2009, 06:44 AM
Summer 2009 THR hunting rifle match

I deem this my hunting rifle match. This match is for any CENTERFIRE rifle that doesn't disqualify due to the the below guidelines, even if you don't actually hunt with said rifle. As an added bonus it should be good practice for that old game getter what with fall approaching fast.

Exclusions
1. Must weigh under 10lbs as rated by the mfgr
2. No scopes over 12x magnification (scoped class)
3. Cannot qualify for CMP service or as issued rifle competition
any one of these disqualifies a rifle for the purposes of this match
4. No FMJ or match ammunition, all bullets used must be either cast lead or expanding as per the manufacturer

Now I realize that some of you may hunt with rifles that fall outside these rules but please understand that I have to draw the line somewhere to keep this from becoming a precision match rifle shoot, read $$$$.

Unlike like the previous match there will now be 3 classes tied to bore size.
small bore which is up to but no larger than 6mm/.244"
.257 to .338 for the medium bore
and .348" up for the big bore guys

Inside these classes will be the familiar 50yds irons, 100yds scoped subdivisions




The Rules

You will fire 5 shots onto the approved target set at a range of 50 or 100yds depending on the sighting system used, ANY shooting position is allowed. Groups will be scored by a smallest size wins for all 5 shots

The target used will be a "paper" plate, you can paint, color or put any dots you wish inside this target but the "group" shot must be on this plate. For those of you who's range rule prohibit the use of a plate see this post (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5607819&postcount=10)

you will shoot 5 shots onto the plates adhering to the rules outlined above. When you have a target you're satisfied with you need to make note on the target the following information

username
group size
firearm & sighting system including scope specs
ammunition
date fired
class and subdivision

then take a pic of it and post it here, if you would please post a pic of the rifle used as well.

You may submit as many targets as you wish provided one of three things
1. the new group betters the last (leave the old pic up though)
2. the new group is for a different class
3. It was shot with another firearm
targets can not be recycled from a previous match;)

this match has a cutoff date of October 1st

Scoring and classifications
The three leader boards will represent the current overall match leaders in each caliber subdivision. At the end of the match any action type that has more than one submission will be broken down further into first, second and or third place. This way levergun guys still have a reason to shoot against bolt actions so on and so forth.

Hud
August 1, 2009, 12:49 PM
I like it & I'm in if this one is going to run for two months as suggested in last months thread. Also gives me the chance to qualify in a couple of different classes.
I won't be able to shoot 'till next month since our long range area is a dove flyway and we are shutting down this month to let the critters settle down in preparation for a youth dove hunt on opening day.
I'll be kept busy this month building new target stands for the range.

R.W.Dale
August 1, 2009, 03:59 PM
I like it & I'm in if this one is going to run for two months as suggested in last months thread. Also gives me the chance to qualify in a couple of different classes.
I won't be able to shoot 'till next month since our long range area is a dove flyway and we are shutting down this month to let the critters settle down in preparation for a youth dove hunt on opening day.
I'll be kept busy this month building new target stands for the range.

I forgot to add the cutoff date:scrutiny:

Fixed with a couple other minor tweaks.

Game ON

1858
August 1, 2009, 09:05 PM
krochus, I'm definitely in this match (100 yards scoped only) with the following rifles, bullets and powder.

Medium bore

7mm-08, Savage 16 Weather Warrior, Hornady 139gr SST Interlock, IMR 4895
300 WSM, Remington 700 Alaskan Ti, Hornady 150gr SST Interlock, Reloder 19

Big bore

.45-70, Marlin XLR, Remington 405gr JSP, VV N130 (maybe N120)
.45-70, Marlin Guide Gun, Remington 405gr JSP, VV N130 (maybe N120)

This match will put the FUN in FUNctional since I need to work up hunting loads for the Savage and the Remington as well as continue working up loads for the Marlins.

:)

R.W.Dale
August 1, 2009, 09:12 PM
I'm anxious to see your two medium bore rifles pitted against one another

This match will put the FUN in FUNctional since I need to work up hunting loads

That's what I'm hopin. If you need to sight in anyhow why not do it on a paper plate and join in the fun

I'll shoot the Rifles I shot in the last match plus I hope to have my rem7400 weathermaster sprung from layaway in a couple weeks. alas I own neither a big bore or a small bore that can compete

1858
August 1, 2009, 09:32 PM
I'm anxious to see your two medium bore rifles pitted against one another

The Remington is VERY accurate with 168gr SMK bullets and Reloder 22 but I'm expecting good things from the Savage too. I have no idea how either will do with the Hornady SSTs but that's the whole point.

I like the fact that you specified hunting bullets only ... I'll be including some reloads and bullets in my photos ... as evidence. :)

What caliber is your 7600? I see that they're offered in .270 Win and .30-06. I imagine you opted for the .30-06 but either way ... I'm interested to see what that rifle is capable of.

:)

R.W.Dale
August 7, 2009, 12:49 AM
My rifle is the semiauto 7400 chambered for 30/06. It's also one of the cool and kinda rare weathermasters, baciclly a rifle given the 870 marine magnum treatment

R.W.Dale
August 8, 2009, 10:17 PM
OK my opening submissions to kick this thing off.

1891 Mauser sporter, 100yds scoped, 100grn XTP 7.65x53mm scope v7 weaver
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/ad9c9fce.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/HPIM2453.jpg

Pretty disappointing but I'll submit it anyhow. Remington Spartian single shot, 303 British 50yds irons
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/5f1a91c1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/iPhoneUpload-15.jpg

P51D
August 9, 2009, 04:34 PM
Way to go, Krochus! Both on your great shooting, and on organizing this match! :)

Hereís a target I shot a couple of days ago. As far as I can tell, the rifle & scope fall within the rules. Krochus will straighten me out if not.

Group Size: 0.410Ē
Rifle: Savage Model 12 FV Varmint Series, .243 Win
Weight 8.75 lbs (from Savageís 2008 brochure)
Scope: Leupold 3-9 x 40 VX-I
Ammo: Handload, 58 gr. Hornady V-Max, IMR 3031 powder, approx. 3300 fps
Date: 7 Aug 2009
Class: Small bore, 100 yd scoped
Position: Sandbags and a bench.

The rifle is stock, ďout-of-the-boxĒ. It has an Accu-Trigger, but it was produced before the Accu-Stock. I just checked the Savage website, and it looks like they no longer produce this model in .243 Win. Thatís unfortunate. :(

Iíve tried several different bullet/powder combos so far, and itís not too hard to find a combo that it likes to shoot under 1 MOA. But it seems to LOVE the 58 gr Hornady V-Max and IMR 3031. :D Iím not comfortable posting specific load data on the internet, but I will say that this load is near the lower end of published load data for this bullet/powder combo. Not the very lowest, but close to it. Iíve chronographed it at about 3300 fps, so if you have loading manuals, you can figure it out.

By the way, it can easily push this bullet at around 3800 fps using published load data, and the results on a 1 gallon plastic milk jug full of water are SPECTACULAR!! :what:

Safe and Happy Shooting!

P51D

Hud
August 9, 2009, 05:49 PM
Good shooting Mustang!
I'm glad that's a different class than I'll be shooting. :)

Krochus, I'm really going to have to tighten up the groups with my Colombian to better your 1891. :banghead:
That 7.65x53mm is an accurate round.

R.W.Dale
August 9, 2009, 07:40 PM
Good shooting Mustang!
I'm glad that's a different class than I'll be shooting.


No doubt! I hope this unusually high bar doesn't discourage other participants, Congradulations!

Well I'm off to the range to take that weathermaster for a spin

FlyinBryan
August 9, 2009, 09:06 PM
thats some handy work right there.

up to 3800 fps WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that thing is a speed freak

R.W.Dale
August 9, 2009, 11:31 PM
No doubt! I hope this unusually high bar doesn't discourage other participants, Congradulations!


Boy when I said this I never thought this would apply to me as well in the medium bore class:eek: Patience, carefull heat control and lots of dumb luck really paid off today. I figure the least I can do is share my secret


I fired one fouling shot at the backstop to get the rife up from room temp to close ambient temp (warm) fired the first shot of my group and followed up with the other four at 5 minute intervals

the hole towards the top of the plate is from a staple

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/51897cd0.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/iPhoneUpload-1.jpg

please don't hate me:o

unfortunately I got the 7400 hot during sight in and as we all know a hot 7400 isn't a happy 7400 in terms of accuracy and at 90 degrees+ I never could get the heat back down to shoot serious groups. I'll try again another day.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/f3f773f4.jpg

Hud
August 10, 2009, 12:23 AM
please don't hate me:o

Only if you've been taking lessons from Otrman :(... but I'll get over it.
I know what you guys are doing. You're getting the best ones out there so you can sit back for the next 7 weeks & watch the rest of us scrap for a place on the leaderboard ;), but the Greyhounds do need a rabbit to chase!
Fantastic shooting, both of you. Congratulations!:)

P51D
August 10, 2009, 09:13 AM
Thanks, Gents. :)

Wow, Krochus! Mighty fine!! :D

P51D

KSCCHTrainer
August 10, 2009, 11:11 AM
Krochus,
I hunt with my 1942 Mosin 91/30 that was never a "sniper" rifle. It has a BSA "Contender" 4-12 X 40mm scope on an AdvancedRifleParts mount and I changed the bolt body to one with a turned down handle. I've also re-crowned the barrel to get rid of some serious dings.

Since it doesn't qualify for CMP and "as issued" rifle matches, and I use it for hunting, is it allowed in this one?

I also have a much modified Mosin M44 "scout" rifle that might qualify too.

Ammunition is handloaded using the Hornady 150 grain flat base spire (soft point) using New PrviPartizan brass & Alliant Reloader-15 powder.

Our indoor range will allow paper plates if they are stapled onto one of their special targets (flip overs to keep the target area low enough so you don't get too high on the backstop.)

R.W.Dale
August 10, 2009, 01:37 PM
As long as expanding ammo is used your 91/30 qualifies for this match at around 8.75 lbs

KSCCHTrainer
August 10, 2009, 03:13 PM
Thanks Krochus,
Just got back from the range and found your message. Here's a couple of photos of the target with the calipers on the group.

Center to center at the smallest, .411" and the widest part .484". Not quite as good as yours but pretty dang good for a rifle that was made the same year I was born (1942).

Neatest thing - another guy was down there (a Remchesterby type) with his Remington 700 in .308. He was grouping 1" to 1.5" at 100 yards. After I showed him my group, he was grumbling a bit, and so I let him shoot my rifle. He put 3 rounds in .5" all touching and it beat the heck out of his shoulder (no wussy pad on the 91/30). As we were leaving the range, he was going on about how much more accurate that old 100 buck Mosin was compared to his 800 buck Remmy with the 200 buck Leupold scope.

My scope is a 100 buck BSA Contender and the mount cost me 90 so I have under $300 in the gun. On a fixed retirement income, every penny counts these days.

R.W.Dale
August 10, 2009, 03:21 PM
Do me a favor and measure your group across it's widest extreme points outside to outside. This is the measurment I need to make an accurate placement of your submission

KSCCHTrainer
August 10, 2009, 03:31 PM
That comes out to .695", but I always thought groups were measured center to center. That is the way the NRA categorizes them. It's your match though, and the widest outside to outside is .695 That actually penalizes those who use larger diameter bullets though.

Oh yes, 7.62X54R ballistically equivalent of the 30-06 so it comes out as medium bore. I forgot to mark that on the targets.

R.W.Dale
August 10, 2009, 03:37 PM
That comes out to .695", but I always thought groups were measured center to center. That is the way the NRA categorizes them. It's your match though, and the widest outside to outside is .695 That actually penalizes those who use larger diameter bullets though.

They are but on a one hole group you measure to the grease ring at the two extreme points, then you take and subtract one bullet diameter from this measurment giving you the group size center to center irregardless of caliber and in a more accurate manner than using mkI eyeball to estimate the center of a couple of bullet holes

.695-.312=0.383":eek:

So see your group is even better than you thought it was

Hud
August 10, 2009, 03:52 PM
Krochus this is your match, but if more shooters would use this to score their targets,there might be less confusion. Just a suggestion. :)

http://www.6mmbr.com/ontargetsoftware.html

R.W.Dale
August 10, 2009, 03:54 PM
Krochus this is your match, but if more shooters would use this to score their targets,there might be less confusion. Just a suggestion. :)

http://www.6mmbr.com/ontargetsoftware.html

I can't get it to work right on my computer though:banghead: but from what little bit it worked it seemed to be more than accurate enough, if others want to use it I'm fine with it

KSCCHTrainer
August 10, 2009, 03:56 PM
You're absolutely right. Didn't know what method you were using to determine it. I have a piece of software called OnTarget that will calculate group size from a target picture if you give it a reference size (mark the edges of the opening of the caliper) and tell it what the caliper read and then tell it the bullet size. Now, it gives you a circle with a crosshair in it and you mark the bullet holes using the precision caliper. It then calculates all sorts of neat info. I didn't use that when I initially posted the target info, but running it now, I get exactly the same numbers you did.

BTW, it will run on my computer and is really easy to use.

Thanks!

Fun shoot and I'll definitely enter others.

Jim

R.W.Dale
August 10, 2009, 04:14 PM
It's a good thing I took the leaderboard to 5 places, otherwise I doubt anyone else would bother to shoot in the scoped classes with the insane level of competition we've got going on. Heck by the numbers you'd think this was a varmint,benchrest,LR rifle shoot and not sub 10lb hunting guns

P51D
August 10, 2009, 08:57 PM
Krochus - I agree. This is amazing, inspiring, and motivating :) Good work!

KSCCHTrainer
August 10, 2009, 09:27 PM
P51D,
Them outta the box Savages are extremelly impressive, to say the least. I'm not afraid to publish my load data for my 7.62 X54R accuracy load as it's the Reloader 15 starting load for that Hornady #3120 (.312 diameter 150 grain flat base soft point) bullet. My 91/30 absolutely loves it. 5 rounds to warm up the barrel, next 5 rounds produce the tightest group but it doesn't open up much after that either. I've managed a series of 5 round, ragged hole groups for 20-30 rounds over a 30 minute or less time frame. Barrel gets pretty warm too!

I know the 91/30 Mosin is usually pretty accurate, but I think I got lucky and got a really good one after I fixed the dings in the crown.

P51D
August 10, 2009, 09:46 PM
KSC - Amazing group that you have there! Congrats!!

Interesting point about the barrel warm up. I should probably pay more attention to that.

Looking at your ammo picture: were those done with a factory crimp die?

Great shooting. :)

P51D

R.W.Dale
August 11, 2009, 12:54 AM
KSC - Amazing group that you have there! Congrats!!

Interesting point about the barrel warm up. I should probably pay more attention to that.

Looking at your ammo picture: were those done with a factory crimp die?

Great shooting. :)

P51D

The more I dwell on the more that last group astounds me.

As to heat managment it's one variable that can be controlled with a little patience as KSCs and my group show. I bet you're already plannin on taking that savage back out and employing this lil tidbit. ;)

KSCCHTrainer
August 11, 2009, 07:55 AM
KSC - Amazing group that you have there! Congrats!!

Interesting point about the barrel warm up. I should probably pay more attention to that.

Looking at your ammo picture: were those done with a factory crimp die?

Great shooting. :)

P51D
Thanks --

Yes, those rounds were crimped with a Lee factory crimp die. I've found that it really helps produce consistent results. I also use a PACT electronic scale and dispenser. Every powder charge is weighed to the tenth of a grain within the + or - a tenth accuracy of the scale. I calibrate the scale with the check weights just before the start of each reloading session and sometimes during if I should happen to bump the stand the scale and dispenser sits on as that could throw it off by .1 or more. Haven't had that happen, but I don't take chances with it. I wish Lee made a neck sizer die for the 7.62 X 54R cartridge, but the only one I've found available is RCBS and I don't like it. I like Lee's collet type neck size dies much better and they produce more consistent results. At least in .308 (when I had one).

engravertom
August 19, 2009, 05:34 PM
hello folks,

This looks cool! However, my only centerfire rifles are milsurps.

Does my M91 qualify, since it has an incorrect stock, and the crown has been cut back .125? Would my M44 qualify with the bayo removed? Would my Finn M91 qualify if I put an aftermarket trigger on it, or removed the handguard, or something?

I do have softpoint ammo, and some cast bullets to load up too.

Thanks!

Tom

R.W.Dale
August 19, 2009, 05:40 PM
hello folks,

This looks cool! However, my only centerfire rifles are milsurps.

Does my M91 qualify, since it has an incorrect stock, and the crown has been cut back .125? Would my M44 qualify with the bayo removed? Would my Finn M91 qualify if I put an aftermarket trigger on it, or removed the handguard, or something?

I do have softpoint ammo, and some cast bullets to load up too.

Thanks!

Tom

Milsurps are fine provided they aren't in a configuration for CMP service rifle, This basically is only for US milsurps in original configurations. This rule is there to in theory prevent someone from running the Iron sight show with their national match rifle.

Other milsurps are fine in original configuration, again provided it weighs less than 10lbs, has a scope of less than 13x magnification and you shoot expanding or cast lead ammo. Note one of the class leading firearms is a Mosin Nagant

engravertom
August 19, 2009, 05:53 PM
Thanks!

Tom

P51D
August 20, 2009, 10:32 AM
Hi, Krochus - I don't know what "configuration for Civilian Marksmanship Program service rifle" means.

I have a Mauser 98k that has been sporterized into a hunting rifle. It has Williams peep sights, an aftermarket trigger, and of course I can shoot expanding ammo and cast ammo.

Does this fall within the rules?

Thanks

P51D

Griff56
August 23, 2009, 02:33 PM
You guys make it hard for us old blind guys. Some pretty nice looking targets already.
I thought about entering my Marlin 1894 .44 Mag with iron sights at 50 yards but you
are already outside my capabilities. Besides, I do not have access to photo equipment to
post pictures.

Good shooting guys.

R.W.Dale
August 23, 2009, 02:41 PM
You guys make it hard for us old blind guys. Some pretty nice looking targets already.
I thought about entering my Marlin 1894 .44 Mag with iron sights at 50 yards but you
are already outside my capabilities. Besides, I do not have access to photo equipment to
post pictures.

Good shooting guys.

here's the thing though, if you shot in the 50yds Irons category with a .44 as of right now you'd be the winner of that class by default.

If you want to participate you can mail your target to me and I'll post it for ya. So please participate.

P51D
August 29, 2009, 10:41 AM
Here's an entry for the medium bore iron sights class. Happy Shooting to all!! ;)

Group Size: 1.10Ē
Rifle: Mauser 98, 8 x 57 mm, sporterized Weight: approx 7.5 lbs
Sights: Williams aperature
Ammo: Handload, 150 gr Hornady spire soft point, IMR 4064 powder, approx. 2500 fps
Date: 28 Aug 2009
Class: Medium bore, 50 yd iron sights
Position: Sandbags and a bench

P51D

R.W.Dale
August 31, 2009, 01:25 AM
Nice shooting mustang! Leaderboard updated




fellas we need more submissions! small and large bore is still pretty much wide open

XTerminator
September 1, 2009, 05:01 PM
Hi guys,
Here's a plate I shot this morning;

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee106/stevesureshot/450bushmaster004.jpg

Bushmaster 450 Carbine
Leupold VXIII 1.75-6x32 scope
Hornady factory ammo 250gr FTX
100yd

Group size 0.904"

Large bore scoped class

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee106/stevesureshot/001-1.jpg

Steve

R.W.Dale
September 1, 2009, 05:28 PM
Nine Nice Nice!

I gotta get one of those!


leaderboard updated

pikid89
September 2, 2009, 09:50 AM
weather permitting, im going to make my iron sight submission with my Rem 788 in 22-250 this weekend

XTerminator
September 15, 2009, 06:23 PM
Hello again,
I got my Swiss K31 out of the closet this morning to see what it could do at 50yd.
I used some FNM factory ammo I found at a gun show a couple of years ago and it seems to like it pretty well. The load uses 174gr jacketed soft point bullets.
Medium bore, iron sights class. 5 shots at 50yd.

Group measures 0.942"

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee106/stevesureshot/SwissK31target001.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee106/stevesureshot/SwissK31target004.jpg

Andysguns
September 25, 2009, 09:32 PM
I have a Mosin Nagant M44, 7.62x54R, I've thought about putting a scope on it and using it for hunting but I can't hit crap with the iron sights at 20 yds. I've been using my old reliable 30-06.
Can you guys provide any tips, since you can hit .383" at 100 yds?

Andysguns
September 25, 2009, 09:41 PM
Boy when I said this I never thought this would apply to me as well in the medium bore class:eek: Patience, carefull heat control and lots of dumb luck really paid off today. I figure the least I can do is share my secret


I fired one fouling shot at the backstop to get the rife up from room temp to close ambient temp (warm) fired the first shot of my group and followed up with the other four at 5 minute intervals

the hole towards the top of the plate is from a staple

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/51897cd0.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/iPhoneUpload-1.jpg

please don't hate me:o

unfortunately I got the 7400 hot during sight in and as we all know a hot 7400 isn't a happy 7400 in terms of accuracy and at 90 degrees+ I never could get the heat back down to shoot serious groups. I'll try again another day.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/f3f773f4.jpg
My 30-06 is a 7400. I use it for hunting and usually get my dear.
I love the fact that you would use one for a match. I think a 4" group at 100yds is the best I could hope to get,
And that would be on my best day.
Your groups with 700 are sick, If you can even get close to that with the 7400, there may be hope for that gun yet.

R.W.Dale
October 1, 2009, 02:25 PM
this match is now closed

I'd thank to thank all the participants in this match for some seriously amazing submissions, my congradulations to the winners.

Please shoot in my carbine match

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