1.5 MOA from a M39? Better than a K31?


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Animal Mother
August 2, 2009, 01:17 AM
I recently read a post that stated that all Finnish M39 rifles had to meet a minimum accuracy standard of 1.5 MOA or less. Is this true?

Is this better than the accuracy potential one could reasonably expect from a Swiss K31?

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greenlion
August 2, 2009, 01:53 AM
Never heard that before. Possible though. Both of those can be quite accurate for military surplus. You'd probably have an easier time finding a good Swiss K31 right now.

benEzra
August 2, 2009, 12:01 PM
I believe the accuracy standard was 5 centimeters at 150 meters, but I may be wrong. Doug Bowser in Rifles of the White Death (Valkoisen Kuoleman Kivaarit): A Collector's and Shooter's Guide to Finnish Military Rifles 1918-1944 says that to pass inspection, every M39 had to shoot into 1.3" at 100 yards, which works out to approximately the same.

Moose458
August 2, 2009, 12:03 PM
The M39 did have to pass an accuracy test before it was issued. The receivers are glass bedded into the stocks. I don't know any other issue military rifle that was glass bedded. Both the Swiss K31s and the Swedish M38s are also very accurate.

jpwilly
August 2, 2009, 12:24 PM
They are no doubt far more accurate than their M91/30 cousins. I'm not sure there was an "accuracy" standard for all rifles but they were quite dissapointed with the M91/30's accuracy and set about fixing it. They obviously figured it out.

PTK
August 2, 2009, 12:26 PM
There was indeed an accuracy requirement on M39s, 5cm/150m is correct if I'm remembering right. :)

(For what it's worth, my M39 will do slightly above an inch at 200 yards with my handloads)

DMK
August 2, 2009, 12:30 PM
My M39s are pretty accurate, but I think my K31s shoot better than my M39s.

Of course ammo might have a lot to do with that. I don't handload and finding match quality 7.62x54R isn't easy. I scored a couple boxes of Black Hills at a gunshow once, but it's possible that my rifles just didn't have a preference for it. It didn't shoot all that much better than some of my better surplus ammo.

I never found any commercial match quality 7.5x55 either, but Swiss GP11 is supposed to be near match quality though.

So historically, I don't know which was held to the higher standard.

Realistically, you need to find out if you can produce or find top quality ammo to get the best from your rifle.

_N4Z_
August 2, 2009, 02:36 PM
every M39 had to shoot into 1.3" at 100 yards, which works out to approximately the same.

Yep, 3 shot group.

The receivers are glass bedded into the stocks.

Hmmmm, no glass that I've ever seen or heard of, but they were "bedded". Mostly brass shims, but some had nothing. I have examples of each. I shoot my Finns one to two times a month. Also compete with them in mil-bolt rifle matches. "We" hold our own. ;)

My M39s are pretty accurate, but I think my K31s shoot better than my M39s. Of course ammo might have a lot to do with that. I don't handload and finding match quality 7.62x54R isn't easy.

I have found handloading will really make the 39's shine. 3 shot groups under an inch at 100 yards, with the right loading is not unheard of. Lately though I've moved to 10 shot groups. Just tested a Lyman accuracy load this morning. 10 shots off a sand bag @ 100 yards, stock irons only, 2-5/16" center to center.

I think that's pretty damn good for a 67 year old rifle.

jpwilly
August 2, 2009, 05:55 PM
I have found handloading will really make the 39's shine.

Handloading makes most all rifles shine no doubt. Curious what your handload recipe is?

Dr_2_B
August 2, 2009, 06:58 PM
wow. you guys and your handloading stuff. one of these days I guess I'm gonna have to break down and try some of that.

jpwilly
August 2, 2009, 07:51 PM
wow. you guys and your handloading stuff. one of these days I guess I'm gonna have to break down and try some of that.

I just took that step a couple of years ago. Best thing could have done to augment my shooting hobby.

7.5-Swiss
August 2, 2009, 07:58 PM
I'm a huge fan of K31's and Finnish Nagants. I just had a chance to put about 60 rounds through each yesterday.

My Finnish Nagant, a 28/30 (which is supposedly the most accurate of the Finn line - but I've never had a chance to compare it with a M39) shot very well. The K31 shot as straight as ever, but in my case, the 28/30 was shooting just about 2" at 100 yards, much better then I was shooting the K31 - though I think both are capable of better. With 7.62x54 being so much more affordable then 7.5 Swiss - and with primers being as hard to find as they have been, my 28/30 may be taking top spot for range trips for a while.

_N4Z_
August 2, 2009, 08:42 PM
Curious what your handload recipe is?

Well the one tried today was an accuracy load from the Lyman Reloading Handbook, 49th ed.
Their recipe calls for Fed 210 primers and Norma brass.
180gr Sierra SP (.311 dia.), 47.5gr IMR4350, OAL 2.975. They tested with a SAKO Mosin Nagant M39.

Worked well in my Belgian B barrel.

Something I noticed with IMR4350 though... Not sure I get full burn with it in the 39's. Seems to leave more behind in the bore after firing then some of the faster powders out there. I've had good luck and accuracy from both IMR4320 and H4895 loads, with far cleaner burns. Same for RL15, though slightly less accurate groups.

Recommend you find a Lyman for yourself. Very good reloading info source to have around.

jpwilly
August 2, 2009, 08:50 PM
^^ I have the 48th Edition but was courious.

jpwilly
August 2, 2009, 08:55 PM
With 7.62x54 being so much more affordable then 7.5 Swiss

Yea the cannon fodder surplus is cheaper but I've found it to be far from ideal. Get some reloadable brass for each and have at it. Currently have 200rnds of 7.5 Swiss PRVI in the closet calling my K31 to the line. I've got to stock up on reloadable brass 7.62x54R though as my supply is shot out and needs refreshed.

elmerfudd
August 2, 2009, 09:43 PM
Mine are about equal. With good ammo and iron sights they both shoot just under 2 MOA.

I shoot the M39 a hell of a lot more though.

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