Single Shot Rifles


PDA






Nastrowie!
August 2, 2009, 01:40 AM
Any experience with some of the affordable single shots out there? It would be used primarily as a loaner/backup so please no ruger #1's. I'm Considering New England Arms, Remington International, H&R and anything else affordable. Also prefer 30-30 or 30-06 as I have die sets and projectiles for each. Really looking for good value, have heard the NEF is decent but I like the rail on the remington international despite being made in...who knows... serbia or wherever. It's mainly for my nephew, going into his first white tail season. I remember using a single shot 30-30 that I was loaned my first year, it was dead on and served me well.

If you enjoyed reading about "Single Shot Rifles" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
GodGuns&Guitars
August 2, 2009, 03:17 AM
I think I lean towards the H&R. Where I use to live in Arkansas they sold like hot cakes for children boys/girls getting ready for their first deer hunts and with the right optics seem to be very accurate. We also gave quite a few away for youth hunts at the local Friends of the NRA banquets we held down there. Never heard any complaints.

R.W.Dale
August 2, 2009, 03:55 AM
Any experience with some of the affordable single shots out there? It would be used primarily as a loaner/backup so please no ruger #1's. I'm Considering New England Arms, Remington International, H&R and anything else affordable. Also prefer 30-30 or 30-06 as I have die sets and projectiles for each. Really looking for good value, have heard the NEF is decent but I like the rail on the remington international despite being made in...who knows... serbia or wherever. It's mainly for my nephew, going into his first white tail season. I remember using a single shot 30-30 that I was loaned my first year, it was dead on and served me well.

The rem is made in Russia

I have owned em all and do own the remington, The thing about the rem is that rail you like in actuality completely sucks requiring very good rimfire rings that still may slip and providing you with no flexibility in mounting the scope front to rear. Luckily the sights are pretty good because I gave up on scoping mine.

The NEF is good but like all break action single shots they're not gonna win any accuracy competitions anytime soon. If a scope is important go with the handi-rifle, if not I much prefer the lines and operation of the Remington

In my opinion nowadays for not much more $$$$ (about 50) the current crop of entry level bolt actions is a much better bang for your buck

rmuzz
August 2, 2009, 10:38 AM
I have an NEF in .22-250, its nice enough... honestly havent really given it a good workout, shot only fairly close range. I like it though, but cant give much of a review on it. The nice part is though the option to send it back to the factory to get another barrel or two. Im debating whether or not to get one or more (barrels) in the near future/pre-fall for deer. a .357 to go along with my s&w 19-5? I'd need a shotgun/slug barrel depending where in MN i'll hunt. Wouldnt mind having a 45/70 or .500 s&w either, but maybe harder to justify. I dont want to pay a bunch of shipping to send it in multiple trips, and it has to go in to be fit for each exra barrel. I have a friend with an NEF 20 gauge that I like a lot.

I'm still thinking on it, could easily end up with new different shotgun and maybe bolt gun instead. Still pretty new to hunting and working on buying my own tools.

shaggy430
August 15, 2009, 12:47 AM
If I were you I'd lean towards the NEF if you plan to use a scope. I've heard the Remingtons are great if you want to use the iron sights, but the small scope rail is a joke.

PAPACHUCK
August 15, 2009, 08:11 AM
I have a NEF "Survivor" in .308 that will print 1-2" 100yd groups all day long. It is a "fun gun" for me, but would work wonderfully as a whitetail rifle.

At $250 incl. scope, how can you go wrong?

natman
August 15, 2009, 10:16 AM
The NEF and the H&R are pretty much the same rifle.

The Remington Spartan series was made in Russia. Quality control was inconsistent and Remington has dropped the entire line.

You might want to take a look at the Marlin XL7. Not much more money, but a very nice rifle.

PO2Hammer
August 15, 2009, 10:35 AM
I have a NEF Handi Rifle in 30-30/.410 bore/.357 magnum. Very good open sights, takes a weaver rail scope mount.

Very good accuracy, but it's very light, so it kicks a bit with heavy .30-30 loads. Trigger is heavy, but crisp.

Accessory barrels have to be fitted by NEF, they were $65 fitted ten years ago.

KenWP
August 15, 2009, 10:37 AM
I hunt with single shot rifles all the time and I wanted a NEF in 243 and the gun shop I went to refused to order one as they said they didn't handle cheap guns. A lot of guns stores that handle them sell out pretty fast and they don't special order them as they get them in groups instead. I would not hesitate to use one in a 30 caliber as they are plenty good enough for hunting. My 303 had 22 tip off mounts on it and that's probbably why I had trouble keeping it sighted in. I have tried to mount a scope on my Savage 22 over 2o gauge on that cheap groove they have on them and it's a poor mount to say the least.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 15, 2009, 01:16 PM
I find the Rossi single shot to be a significantly better value than the NEFs. Both are suitable for hunting, accuracy-wise. But the Rossis cost less, have a lower hammer (can get your optics lower), and have a safety where the NEF does not. The other day, I was just dry firing my NEF in .243 and I'm crappin ya negatory, out of the blue, the tip of the hammer just broke off and flew a few feet, along with the hammer extension piece. Now I cannot put the hammer extension back onto what's left of the hammer, and so it's a bealzubich to cock and un-cock, which is double unsafe with no safety.

But there are a LOT of NEF Handi fans over at the Graybeard forums. And unlike the Rossis, the NEFs are made here in the United States, if that matters to ya.

lefteyedom
August 16, 2009, 02:06 AM
Get a NEF/H&R and you will be happy. I have had a couple of 45/70 handi rifles and a 12 guage sluggester all work great and shot much better than one would think for the price.

I, being the type that can not leave well enough alone would get a 30/30 and have it rechambered for 30/40 Kraig. Just for fun of course.

federalfarmer
August 16, 2009, 02:47 AM
I have an H&R in .223 with a fixed 6 power Leop. scope -- and it shoots great.
The gun a used scope came to $305 -- great preformance for the money.

Usually around .80 to 1 inch (at 100) if I do my part.

I would love a few more - .270,.300,.22 mag.

Teacher75482
August 16, 2009, 03:49 AM
I like the looks of the Remington/bakal/russian rifle. Was not aware of the scope mount being so bad.

I had a Rossi in 243. Didnt like anything in 100 gn but shoot the 85s well enough.

Tried and true, the NEF/H&R are nice little rifles. I would like one in 45/70, or another interesting caliber.

I will check out the Survivor in 308. Seem like I almost bought one awhile back. Neat little gun.

cottonmouth
August 16, 2009, 04:31 AM
The Remington is crap! A friend of mine got one for his son and it would not even fire. The New England is a better gun.

J.B.

murdoc rose
August 16, 2009, 05:51 AM
I like h&r but tbh h&r,nef,new england is all the same gun.

jmr40
August 16, 2009, 08:04 AM
Have you considered the Marlin XL-7 or Stevens 200 bolt rifles. If you are looking for an inexpensive back up or loaner rifle they sell for about the same price as most of the single shots. Nothing wrong with the single shots, but for the same money, or even a little more I would just prefer a bolt gun.

FLNT4EVR
August 16, 2009, 10:39 AM
Get the NEF in 30-30. It is one of their best and most accurate rifles. Cheap to shoot, ammo available everywhere, enough power for just about everything,and if you reload you can use pointy bullets in many different weights. I reloaded some Rem 180 grn rnd nose core locts for mine, using the data in the Sierra Hand gun manual.They shoot under 1in at 100yds from my Handi rifle.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 16, 2009, 10:56 AM
Have you considered the Marlin XL-7 or Stevens 200 bolt rifles. If you are looking for an inexpensive back up or loaner rifle they sell for about the same price as most of the single shots. Nothing wrong with the single shots, but for the same money, or even a little more I would just prefer a bolt gun.

Yes, a big +1 to that!

PAPACHUCK
August 16, 2009, 11:58 AM
Teacher75482, here is a pic of my "Survivor" 308 to inspire you!


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h11/PAPACHUCK/IMG_0277.jpg

I am quite happy with thie rifle, when I do my part it will print 1-2" groups with most quality brand ammo. With a better scope, I'm sure the groups could improve.

OrangePwrx9
August 16, 2009, 12:45 PM
Before spending $ on a new H&R, I'd scour Gunbroker and AuctionArms for a Contender carbine; either original or G2. Makes a nice platform to build on. Start with a .22 RF and move on up to .223 and any of the larger caliber/gauge Contender barrel offerings from TC. Of course the Encore is the choice if you want really high intensity rifle cartridges.

The triggers on the Contenders are user adjustable and are very crisp and consistent. My carbine with tapered match .22rf barrel is a deadly accurate offhand shooter on both paper and rodents. It's much cheaper to practice with rimfire and then swap in the larger caliber barrel when it's time to hunt. You might save enough with this approach to justify the more expensive gun to begin with. Nothing beats familiarity with one's gun.
FWIW
Bob

dannyabear
August 16, 2009, 03:25 PM
Well, guys, I'm partial to my Remington International/Bakail 223 with the nickle reciever; It will get more 'looks and compliments' then any h&r/handi; and it will out shoot any of them with its hammer forged barrel;
Scope mounting is not a problem if you do a little research.
There is an adapter plate available (bought mine on ebay) that clamps to the euro rail and adapts to weaver rings, I am, however, considering having a gunsmith drill & tap the rail so the adaprt will be screwed down rather than just clamped. This adapter lets you move scope forward or back for proper eye relief.
Budsgunshop had a few left for $238.00 shipped

AKElroy
August 16, 2009, 04:49 PM
I picked up an H&R .243 from Academy last month as a B-Day gift for my son. Since he is only 8, this is sitting for him while he learns the basics. By sitting and waiting for him, I mean I am going to be shooting it alot:). I am very impressed with the handling qualities of this little rifle. It came with a Simmons 3x9x40 8-point, which can be picked up anywhere for less than $40.00.

I would stick with the rifle only & put decent optics on it rather than the low quality Simmons. The original mounts & rings were crap, and the gun would not zero as one of the 4 ring screws was stripped. Luckily, I have a cave full of used mounts & rings, so I was able to re-mount the scope with a decent set of rings.

I sighted the gun in yesterday in less than 15 rounds, (Single shots are super easy to bore sight, literally) and even with a fairly stiff wind was able to shoot MOA with Winchester 100 grn. Very accurate little rifle & very little recoil in this caliber.

AKElroy
August 16, 2009, 04:58 PM
and it will out shoot any of them with its hammer forged barrel;

I doubt it. Marlin makes NEF and H&R now, and is supplying excellent button rifled barrels that really shoot. The other factors may be true & the Baikal may be a good deal; but for accuracy the Marlin / HR / NEF are hard to beat.

Geno
August 16, 2009, 05:06 PM
For the money, you will have difficulty finding better single shots than T/C Arms.

First, all of the models carry MOA guarantees. Either the Contender or the Encore are wonderful firearms.

Second one does not have to return the Contender, G2 Contender or Encore action to the factory for extra fitting to add new caliber (barrel) choices. All T/C barrels are interchangeable with zero prep-work (Encore to Encore and Contender to Contender).

Third, the caliber selection is near limitless with TC. Their custom shop offers nearly 200 calibers, and if they do not have what you want, they will create it for you.

Fourth, both the Contender and Encore models are to be had in both rimfire and centerfire.

In closing, based on my own experiences with Contenders and Encores, my nod for trigger-friendly goes to the Contender. However, if you plan to step-up into some brut-force calibers (.338 Win Mag; .375 H&H Mag. ; .416 Rigby) then Encore gets the nod.

T/C Arms: www.tcarms.com

Encores: http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/encoreCenterfire.php

Contender (G2): http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/g2ContenderCenterfire.php

Geno

R.W.Dale
August 16, 2009, 05:15 PM
Well, guys, I'm partial to my Remington International/Bakail 223 with the nickle reciever; It will get more 'looks and compliments' then any h&r/handi; and it will out shoot any of them with its hammer forged barrel;

Your experience does not mirror mine.,

First off all Russian guns have chrome lined bores, something that doesn't lend itself to outstanding feats of accuracy.

Second as with all Russian guns QC is a completely foreign concept, my 7.62x39 Remington single shot was shipped to me with a blatantly out of round neck shoulder junction in it's chamber, in the end I reamed it to 303british but it still shot no better than 2MOA

Third, these guns have a typical third world single shot shotgun trigger, mine broke at well over 6lbs

Forth we're bragging about accuracy amongst break action firearms. That's like bragging about being the smartest kid in special ed class. I've owned just about every break action rifle you think of with over a dozen different frames and barrels. They all share one thing in common. I would get sick and tired of their variable and general lack of accuracy. Yeah I know I'm an idiot for buying more of em, but every couple years I see one and fall in love with how light compact and handy they are.......Then I shoot the darn thing

To the OP do yourself a huge favor, spend $50 more on a Marlin xl7 or stevens200

Geno
August 16, 2009, 05:27 PM
krochus:

TC Arms' Contender pistol (break-action) still holds the World Record for handgun accuracy at 500 yards with iron sights. The group fired measured .75" X 3.5".

I have seen precious few centerfire target rifles that do that well. The fact of break action is irrelevant to accuracy.

Respectfully,

Geno

R.W.Dale
August 16, 2009, 05:41 PM
I have seen precious few centerfire target rifles that do that well. The fact of break action is irrelevant to accuracy.


I disagree,

It all has to do with cambering and leverage. With a break action the locking mechanism is offset from the bore with no mechanical advantage. What happens is if cartridge resizing isn't EXTREMELY carefully controlled the amount of action lockup you get varies with case stickout. This wreaks havoc with accuracy.

On a bolt action you have the lockup mechanism centered with the axis of the bore. You also have a the powerful camming action of the bolt in its raceways allowing you to crush fit neck sized cases into the chamber for a very precise and repeatable bullet alignment.

TC Arms' Contender pistol (break-action) still holds the World Record for handgun accuracy at 500 yards with iron sights. The group fired measured .75" X 3.5".

I don't doubt that but here's the thing. In order to do so the firearm has to be built to extremely precise tolerances and the ammunition even more so. The more accuracy you want from a break action the more and more anal you have to be about case prep.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=38
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=172

I realize this link is trying to sell a product but everything mentioned inside is true. whereas a bolt action you simply have to partial length resize your brass

lefteyedom
August 16, 2009, 05:43 PM
One of the reasons I like single shot rifles is that for the same barrel lenght they are much shorter. Short quick handling rifles are good things.

As for bang for the buck....A use 30.06 bolt gun is hard to beat.

ken22250
August 17, 2009, 04:38 AM
if you can find them, the savage 219 in 30-30 would be good, never bought one, but my buddy inherited one from his grandfather, shoots good. i dont think there very expensive. in 1960 they sold new for $37.50
ken

Owlnmole
August 17, 2009, 05:45 AM
While I agree that a inexpensive bolt-action like a Marlin XL-7, Savage-Stevens 200, Remington 715 might be a good choice in .30-06 Springfield, I am a big fan of the H&R/NEF single shots and there are not as many inexpensive .30-30 Winchester lever guns around any more. I think you could do a lot worse that a .30-30 Handi-Rifle--it might not be a minute-of-angle gun at 200 yards, but it is certainly minute-of-deer and there is something special about the simplicity and challenge of having just one shot. As food for thought, here is a thread with pics about a guy who took his .30-06 Handi-Rifle on a hunting trip to Africa (http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3131659/1). Looks to me like the inexpensive single shot will do just fine if you do your part.

PS--If you weren't looking specifically for those calibers, I would have suggested the H&R CR-45LC carbine (http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.asp) as a fantastic beginner's deer rifle, at least if you are talking about short range hunting like we get in the Northeast. It has to be the prettiest gun H&R makes right now, it has genuine Marble carbine sights, and the .45 Long Colt out of a long barrel, especially if you move up to hot loads, is deadly effective. I would never put a scope on it, though.

natman
August 17, 2009, 09:08 AM
First off all Russian guns have chrome lined bores, something that doesn't lend itself to outstanding feats of accuracy.

Second as with all Russian guns QC is a completely foreign concept, my 7.62x39 Remington single shot was shipped to me with a blatantly out of round neck shoulder junction in it's chamber, in the end I reamed it to 303british but it still shot no better than 2MOA

Third, these guns have a typical third world single shot shotgun trigger, mine broke at well over 6lbs

Forth we're bragging about accuracy amongst break action firearms. That's like bragging about being the smartest kid in special ed class. I've owned just about every break action rifle you think of with over a dozen different frames and barrels. They all share one thing in common. I would get sick and tired of their variable and general lack of accuracy. Yeah I know I'm an idiot for buying more of em, but every couple years I see one and fall in love with how light compact and handy they are.......Then I shoot the darn thing


I have to agree with all your points except one. QC in the Remington Spartan line is non existent. Some of the guns work fine, but a LOT of them have serious problems.

Now for the point of disagreement:

I have a J.C. Higgins Model 50 with a chrome lined barrel. It has an FN Mauser action with a High Standard barrel. It is extremely accurate for a sporting rifle and the Model 50 has an excellent reputation for accuracy overall. So it may be more difficult to make an accurate chrome lined barrel, there may be guns where the plain barrel version shoots better than the chromed one, but a chrome lined barrel does not necessarily preclude good accuracy.

Hillbillyz
August 17, 2009, 11:44 AM
I own 2 Handi rifles. One in .44 Mag and the second one in 7mm08. THe .44 was bought for my daughter to use when she started deer hunting, at 50 yards 1.5 inch groups all day long. The 7mm08 is MOA. I also have a friend who owns a NEF heavy barrel in .223 he takes it out west for prairie dogs. When his custom rifle gets to hot he lets it cool and keeps shooting the Handi. He consistantly hits at 300 yards. Not bad for a $200 rifle.

RiverCity.45
August 17, 2009, 12:20 PM
I like my Mossberg ATR100 in .30-06, and at $299 (including a scope), I enjoy sending lead down range with it nearly every weekend. It's also available in other calibers.

RonE
August 18, 2009, 01:36 AM
For some reason, the cheap break open single shot rifles seem to have somewhat of a cult following that I cannot understand. Most of them are ugly and not what one would call accurate, certainly not inherently accurate. I suppose they are OK for a seven year old to have to sit in a deer stand and wait for a doe to come to a feeder. (Don't forget to wear your cammo). Years ago, they were cheap but that is not so now, they sell for premium prices as first guns, youth guns, versatile guns (because you can change barrels) but they are still a poor excuse for a deer rifle. The second shot if needed is not exactly fast as it might be in a lever, bolt or semi auto rifle.

murdoc rose
August 18, 2009, 01:46 AM
I like single shots but there not worth 150$ imo much less the 200+ some of them are selling for

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 18, 2009, 10:16 AM
For some reason, the cheap break open single shot rifles seem to have somewhat of a cult following that I cannot understand.

I don't understand the cult following either, but I do understand why they sell a lot - they are cheaper! Except for the 'premium' single shots like T/C and Ruger #1/#3, which are much more than a lot of rifles.

Most of them are ugly

Meh, eye of the beholder. I find the Rossi and NEF to be MUCH more attractive than a plastic-stocked T/C Encore, that's for sure!

and not what one would call accurate, certainly not inherently accurate.

Well, their accuracy can vary from decent to good to very good - just cannot make that blanket statement. NEFs can be hit or miss. Some are extremely accurate.

I suppose they are OK for a seven year old to have to sit in a deer stand and wait for a doe to come to a feeder. (Don't forget to wear your cammo).

What does that even mean? They're "OK" for a lot more than just that. They work fine for adults too.

Years ago, they were cheap but that is not so now, they sell for premium prices

No, they're STILL cheaper; the cheapest new rifle you can buy. True that the GAP between the cheap single shots and the cheapest turnbolts is narrower now than it used to be, but you can still get a Rossi S.S. in a full power centerfire for $180 out the door, and a rimfire or shotgun quite a bit less than that.

but they are still a poor excuse for a deer rifle.

Ummm, how do you figure? They are fine deer rifles. Accurate enough, work fine, cheap. What's the problem? It's all about the price with these, and the po' folks who cannot afford a good turnbolt, etc.

The second shot if needed is not exactly fast as it might be in a lever, bolt or semi auto rifle.

Well, ok, but 97% of the time, a second shot is not needed. Of that other 3%, in half those cases, the 2nd shot is only needed as the coup de grace, in which case you have plenty of time to reload. In that final 1.5% where a quick 2nd shot is needed, true that the single shot is slower, but if you have your extra rounds handy (like in a buttstock shell holder), we're only talking about the difference between 3/4ths of a second (lever or pump), versus 1.25 seconds with a single shot. They can be quite fast with a little practice.

Sorry, but it would seem that you've been misinformed, or maybe have been smokin a little wacky tobaccy this morning? :p

Ex-MA Hole
August 18, 2009, 12:49 PM
Nastrowie!-

Not sure where in NH you are, but "The Barn Store" in Salisbury, NH has/ had a bolt action 30/30 in there for a while.

Granted, I haven't been there in about three weeks, but it was there for a bit...

603.648.2888.

Really nice people, really cool store.

lefteyedom
August 19, 2009, 02:16 AM
Ok folks time for a moment of truth. :scrutiny:

IF you are an ethical hunter this does not apply to you.

The only reason for a Second shot is that you screwed up the first one. Ether you should not have shot in the first place or you failed to engage the target properly with your weapon.:fire:

If you are hunting bears, wild hogs or feral dogs where there maybe a need to shoot a second or God for bid a third shot to keep one's position on the food chain, then yes a slow loading rifle would not be the best thing to take to the field. Otherwise learn to harvest game better.

Nothing is more sicking:barf: than the BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM :banghead:pause BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM of some would be nimrod dumping a box of ammo at spike deer running across an a field first day of deer season.:barf:

I have seen:eek: way too many deer that when skinned out that had multiple non lethal bullet wounds.

Kill them cleanly or buy your meat at the SUPER WALMART:fire:

R.W.Dale
August 19, 2009, 05:38 AM
lefteyedom

I strongly disagree with the above statement. I find it surprising that someone who claims to be a supra ethical hunter would not be at terms with the realization that game animals still manage to run off even with "perfect" shot placement.

I've literally shot deer so close I could urinate on em with perfect shot placment using 12ga buckshot (from a single shot no less), knocking the animal flat only to have it get up and run 200yds down a ravine to expire making retrieval a REAL chore. I've seen a deer that turned out to have had it's heart shot LOOSE with a .50cal powerbelt run twice that far.

Now when I shoot a deer if it falls and tries to get up I no longer hesitate to shoot the sucker again if the shot presents itself. Use an single shot and the deer is usually up and running before you can even eject the spent casing. Call me lazy if you want but I'd rather loose a couple lbs more meat than risk losing the entire deer.

Greebe
August 19, 2009, 05:16 PM
I have a TC Encore and while it seems well made I get very inconsistent results with it. I have a .350 Rem Mag that groups into 1" at a hundred yards with heavy loaded 250 Partitions. I also have a .223 heavy contour barrel that strings shots like crazy. For a few rounds I will get a nice group and then when it warms up it shoots about 6 inches high and 4-5 inches to the right. That's just unacceptable to me.

Since TC is supposed to be the best of the break actions, I have little desire to purchase another one since my experience has been frustrating at best.

Just my opinion,
Greebe

TUBBY1
August 20, 2009, 12:52 PM
I too had issues with my encore 50 and my300wm until i bought an after market hinge pin from arther brown. I also have a handy rifle and for the price i would buy the hr/nef. In the caliber of your choice.they are cheaper than a barrel from tc. Alot less hassel than switching back and forth.

lefteyedom
August 22, 2009, 04:15 AM
Krohus, I spent a fair amount of my youth on the east side of your state around Helena. I know very well how animal react to being shot. At hunting clubs "behind the levee" is one of the first places I saw deer with 5 and 6 gun shots in them.

I try to be an ethical hunter, not to be better than anyone else, but because I hate suffering. Animal or human, death comes to all, that is a given. The manner of death is a another issue. A hunter has a moral duty to make an animal's death as quick as possible with the least suffering possible.


The truth is that if you want to DRT an animal a heart and or heart/lung shot is not the way to do it. A heart/lung is the easiest fatal shot to make. But you are right in the fact that an animal so shot can run along ways before blood loss brings on a collapse and death.

There is only two way to drop animal in its tracks. One is to destroy the brain and or the spinal cord there by preventing the animals muscle movements. The other way is to shatter the shoulder joints to the point that animal can no longer support its self.


Brain Shots works great, but if you miss the brain and blow off the jaw the animal will starve to death or die of infection days or weeks later. Shoulder shots work great but risk losing a lot of meat.

Kill them cleanly or buy your meat at the Super Wal-mart.

mp510
August 22, 2009, 04:16 PM
The Remington is crap! A friend of mine got one for his son and it would not even fire. The New England is a better gun.
Interestingly, the "constestants" on the second season of The Alaska Expiriment had the same type of issue with their IZH-94 (maybe it was the Remington model) haveing mechanical firing problems. When I watch it on TV, I figured maybe they didn't know how to use their gun. Interesting, though, that the brand has a rep for such failures.

I find the Rossi single shot to be a significantly better value than the NEFs. Both are suitable for hunting, accuracy-wise. But the Rossis cost less, have a lower hammer (can get your optics lower), and have a safety where the NEF does not. The other day, I was just dry firing my NEF in .243 and I'm crappin ya negatory, out of the blue, the tip of the hammer just broke off and flew a few feet, along with the hammer extension piece. Now I cannot put the hammer extension back onto what's left of the hammer, and so it's a bealzubich to cock and un-cock, which is double unsafe with no safety.
The safety on the Rossi is superfolous. While it is actually very easy to decock a H&R/NEF without the safety, I can respect why it is comforting- especially for a unfamiliar or begining user.

ken22250
August 22, 2009, 06:50 PM
dont know the current goin price, but the savage 219 in 30-30 sounds good for what you want, my buddy inherited one, and it shoots pretty well, in 1960 they sold new for $37.50, so i cant imagine they get much for them now, only possible downside is there is no way to attach a scope.
ken

doubleh
August 22, 2009, 07:33 PM
I have only owned one NEF centerfire rifle. After reading a lot of articles in magazines and posts on the internet about what a great little gun they are I purchased one in .223. To say I was severely disappointed in it's performance is an understatement. I worked with it for well over a year, trying every trick and some I read about, with no success at all. I never got a group good enough at 50 yards to warrant moving out to 100 yards.I determined what was wrong and it would have required a new barrel. I was so disgusted with it that I just traded it off for a Stevens 200.

I also had an NEF, bought before the .223, in 17HMR. It wasn't a bad rifle at all but it wasn't consistent. Sometimes I could get very good groups and sometimes, not so good. It eventually found it's way back to the gun shop as a trade-in also.

Redbeard55
August 22, 2009, 10:13 PM
Have both a NEF Handi Rifle and a Contender Carbine. Both threw shotgun size patterns with the factory barrels in 30-30 Winchester. Both have been rechamered to 30-30 Ackley improved. A joy to shot with lead bullets. Did some load development today. Rather windy so I only shot at 50 yards. Better groups with a 135 grain Sierras jacketed bullets (now deleted) were running around 0.5 to 0.6 inches. The loads it didn't like were into 1.5 to 2.1 inches. In addition to the increased accuracy, won't have to trim the cases since the rifle now headspaces off the 40 degree shoulder and not the rim. Reduces stretching the cases. Should have rechambered both barrels years ago. The 357 barrel isn't a tack driver, but is accurate enough out to 100 yards. The 223 Remington barrel isn't bad. Might consider rechambering to the Ackley Improved. Will be rechambering the 22 Hornet in the next couple of weeks. Also expect the accuracy to improve. Should also be able to trim the Hornet cases less after rechambering.

ken22250
August 23, 2009, 12:10 AM
"I have seen precious few centerfire target rifles that do that well. The fact of break action is irrelevant to accuracy."

i disagree, in general terms, a bolt action should always be more accurate than a single shot, because the 2 piece stocks used on single shots arnt as ridgid as the one piece stocks used on bolt action rifles.
ken

dracphelan
August 23, 2009, 03:47 PM
I own an NEF 223 with a bull barrel. If I handload I can get less than a MOA with it. Since my wife had so much fun shooting it, I am now needing to buy a replacement (she has claimed it as her own).

fafnir
October 6, 2009, 08:52 AM
I've got an H&R in .243 w/ an additional .45-70 barrel.
High power scope on the .243 and a red dot on the .45-70...
love them both.

Owlnmole
October 6, 2009, 10:11 AM
Must be a tough red dot to take .45-70 out of a lightweight rifle without losing zero. What kind is it?

Clipper
October 6, 2009, 11:44 AM
Between us, my shooting buddy and I have 4 Handi Rifles. All shoot well, but the 3 centerfires have nasty-looking fisures from the rifling broaches. They don't seem to affect accuracy to any real drgree, but they sure look like they would. Anyway, they're great inexpensive rifles, but though there's a pretty good selection of accessory barrels available from H&R, they don't make rimfire barrels for the centerfire frame like Rossi does,

fafnir
October 6, 2009, 04:13 PM
Owlnmole: I'm using a Tru Glo and currently shooting the last of my PMC
+p's with no problem.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
October 6, 2009, 04:57 PM
The safety on the Rossi is superfolous.
In your opinion. In my opinion, and that of many others, not at all.

While it is actually very easy to decock a H&R/NEF without the safety,

Define "easy". Does "easy" mean it's impossible for it to slip off your thumb?

I can respect why it is comforting- especially for a unfamiliar or begining user.

Yes, and it's *also* comforting to those of us human beings who happen to be fallible, whose thumbs could slip while decocking, or who might accidentally pull the trigger back enough for it to have enough momentum to fire, but not far enough back engage and stay back, while roaming around in the woods, brushing up against sticks & limbs, etc.

For the infallible people out there (*cough*), I guess it is superfluous. :p

Hesenwine
October 6, 2009, 06:22 PM
What's the turn-around time for getting another barrell?

I have an UltraVarmint in .204 Ruger & I'd like to add a .308 barrell?

R.W.Dale
October 6, 2009, 07:07 PM
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow you do realize that you can simply OPEN an nef to decock it safely if need be? I've stated my issues with this platform previously in this thread but the EXCELLENT fool proof NEF safety isn't one of em.

You don't have a hardware issue with this platform Tad, you have a software problem. The simple thing is you DO NOT cock the nef till right before you pull the trigger. Discipline yourself in this and you NEVER have to decock one

Now contrast this to all the deathtrap 30-30's in the woods where ANY TIME the firearm is loaded the hammer must be meticulously lowered on a Live and HOT chamber. Ive been called everything but a white man by fellow THR members by pointing out the same issues you are. The only difference is the platform I complain about there is no way around this problem, with the NEF not only is it a non issue but thers several ways around it if there were

fafnir
October 7, 2009, 01:41 AM
My turn around was about 5 weeks...H&R has shipping instructions on their
website. New barrels require hand fitting to the receiver that you ship them.
Personally, I haven't had any powder residue on my hands anytime I shot.
They can also do a trigger job and bring it down to 5 1/2 or 6 lbs., if you
put a written request in with the receiver when you ship it. By the way...
I've got 11+ acres in Unicoi County and can't wait to retire to Tn.

Hope this helps.

chevyforlife21
October 7, 2009, 01:43 AM
keep in mind that h and r ,new england, and remington are all the same company. try rossi too they make great single barrels.

Dr.Rob
October 7, 2009, 03:47 AM
I've shot 3 H&R Ultra Varminters built for prarie dogs and other such rodents. They need a trigger job to get under 1 inch groups at 100 yards. All three have had them. 2 in .223 and one in .243. I don't shoot the .243 much, never have.

But they are pretty rugged and accurate little rifles. I would caution you about putting too much scope on one, with big optics the little rifles get unwieldy.

BHP FAN
October 7, 2009, 04:04 AM
I've got a nice .223 H&R with a 3x9 scope and ultra light bi pod.Saweeeet!

scythefwd
October 7, 2009, 04:23 AM
Krochus,
I wouldn't call .8 inches without load workup too shabby for a break action. Then again, that load you fed your T/C may have been the exact load it liked and it couldn't get any better. They won't touch a good bench rest rifle, true... but they are accurate enough for the average shooter.

R.W.Dale
October 7, 2009, 04:31 AM
Krochus,
I wouldn't call .8 inches without load workup too shabby for a break action. Then again, that load you fed your T/C may have been the exact load it liked and it couldn't get any better. They won't touch a good bench rest rifle, true... but they are accurate enough for the average shooter.

I'm not sure what you're referring to but I suspect it was the bergara Encore barrel I had and yes it shot OK.....BUT.....Out of a couple dozen barrels on encores, nef's and other break actions it and a .223 ultra rifle were the ONLY ones that could do that with any repeatability.

Since I posted previously on a trade I've ended up with a 30-06 ported ultra rifle that, surprise surprise shot patterns rather than groups at 100yds with factory fodder or handloads

scythefwd
October 7, 2009, 04:41 AM
Krochus,
Yes, I was referring to your Bergara barrel experiences. The problem may be with T/C's barrels, and not the platform itself. I'm not sure if you used any other makers barrels (green mountain, Mike Bellm, etc.) so I can't say for sure. There are break action rifles out there with a MOA guarantee, which when looking at a woods gun is pretty good. I will agree that they aren't bench guns and probably aren't going to win any accuracy competitions that aren't exclusive to break actions. I am not saying they are more accurate than a bolt gun, but they can be accurate enough. I'll expound on this opinion when I get my center fire barrel scoped and to the range. Right now it is impossible to do anything but shotgun groups because it has no sights on it at all.

R.W.Dale
October 7, 2009, 04:49 AM
I'll expound on this opinion when I get my center fire barrel scoped and to the range. Right now it is impossible to do anything but shotgun groups because it has no sights on it at all.

BUT

If your experience turns out to be like mine will you still be willing to post about it?

scythefwd
October 7, 2009, 04:50 AM
Of course I will. If it doesn't group, it doesn't group. I own up to all my group sizes. I just don't know when I will be putting a scope on the barrel, got a kid due in Dec, so there goes most of my play money for the next 18 years.

R.W.Dale
October 7, 2009, 04:53 AM
so there goes most of my play money for the next 18 years.


Better figure on 20;) and that's only if you stop at one and don't decide to have another in 5 years.

But I wouldn't trade em for all the scopes in the world

scythefwd
October 7, 2009, 05:05 AM
Well, IF we're being honest with ourselves... it will probably be 22 years till she's out of college. That is IF she takes after her mom, I wasn't smart enough to apply myself so I couldn't afford to go to college (Uncle Sam got me instead).

AH-1
October 7, 2009, 09:08 AM
I have a encore w/2 barrels.custom shop 7.5X55 swiss and a 357 maximum.both are tack drivers with my handloads.I have had some handi's over the years.25/06,44 mag and a 308 survivor.It took alot of tinkering to get them to shoot good groups out of the box.the most accurate was my 25/06 again with handloads,free floating the forearm and trigger work.I can honestly say the QC on the handi rifles could be better.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/DSCF2575.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/DSCF2578.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/DSCF2411.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/DSCF2410.jpg

rbernie
October 7, 2009, 09:17 AM
Out of a couple dozen barrels on encores, nef's and other break actions it and a .223 ultra rifle were the ONLY ones that could do that with any repeatability.
Interestingly, I have had an Encore with multiple barrels and I currently own a number of H&R/NEF HandiRifles. I think well of the HandiRifle, in large part due to its ergonomics that cater to fast offhand snap-shooting.

On the Encore, I had one barrel that shot like a house afire and the remainder of the barrels that ranged from acceptable to complete crap in accuracy (threw patterns instead of groups). I tried all sorts of forearm tricks and sandbagging tricks to figure out why the bad barrels shot poorly on the same frame setup that shot so well with a different barrel. Nothing really solved the 'worst' barrel's issues. I then took to measuring the differences between the barrels, as best I could.

In the end, I concluded that the difference in the performance of the barrels was related mostly to chamber depth (adjusting the sizing die to not bump the shoulder back helped a lot). The second variance that I noted was the barrel-to-breechface gap. The barrels that shot poorly had a demonstrable wear pattern on the breechface of the barrel. Those that had a .002" or so uniform gap seemed to shoot most accurately. In many cases, especially with the NEF/H&H, the barrel's breech face is not perfectly square. If the barrel's breech makes contact with the receiver's breechface, it will likely not shoot as accurately as it might otherwise.

I still think that the H&R program for new barrels, at $90-$120/barrel plus $30 fitting, is a true bargain. :)

====

ETA - I will admit that I think very poorly of the Rossi, based solely upon the insanely poor fit of the barrel-to-receiver-hinge. The gun locks up OK, but there is so much slop and play around the hinge pin, even when new, that I simply cannot see them lasting for any amount of real use.

I could be wrong and they may last OK, but I doubt it. I certainly don't wanna shoot something that is so poorly made when I can do better for no more money.

hometheaterman
October 7, 2009, 11:30 AM
I've shot a H&R .243 and honestly, it shot fine at 50 yards which is what we were shooting it at. However, I don't see the point at all for a single shot gun. Especially not if it's going to be your only gun. I guess it teaches you to make the first shot count. However, if you are buying it for a kid, niece, or nephew to start hunting with why not get them a nice bolt action or semi auto? Or better yet talk to them about what they want. Since this gun will hopefully last them a life time shouldn't it be something they like? If a single shot is then what they want I say go for it.

I just know a lot of people tend to start out of single shots and move up later on to bolt actions or semi auto's. So why not just skip the step of the single shot and move on up?

I know I'm going to be the oddball here from thinking this but I just don't care much for a single shot.

rbernie
October 7, 2009, 01:46 PM
A lot of time, the single-shot is relegated to a 'trainer' status. I disagree with that notion.

A hammer-fired single shot is more compact than a repeater, since it needs no receiver section designed to accommodate a bolt or somesuch. It can also be a lot lighter, as a result. It is mechanically dirt-simple, and repairs (when needed) are often easily made using expedient materials. It is inherently easy to make safe when needed (just open the action!) and needs no mechanical safeties. It is easier to clean than most repeaters, and easier to keep operational in the field. (Try cleaning even minor amounts of grit out of the locking recesses in a bolt action with forward locking lugs when in the field, and lemme know how that worked out for ya... :) ) A single shot is a lot easier to carry in the hand, due to the absence of bolt handles, safeties, and other such protuberances. It certainly is easier to swap barrels (and therefore change chamberings to accomodate different game).

If someone does a lot of hunting from a rest and/or stand or finds that the terrain favors multiple shots to anchor game (as Krochus mentioned, above), then any sort of repeater is a fine choice. Certainly, shooting from a rest/bench negates many of the attributes of the single-shot.

However, if someone does a lot of hunting on foot and finds that one shot is the norm for dropping the target game, or wants to maintain a singular platform to ensure repeatable proficiency under stress, then the single shot can be a true friend.

Hesenwine
October 8, 2009, 12:27 AM
I was afraid of that-5 week turnaround. Gotta get the timing right & wait until the groundhogs hibernate. :D

OR, I guess I could just buy another one.

You're gonna love retiring here. I took a transfer here in 1995 & retired in 2007 (early retirement, so to speak) when the economy tanked & the place I worked gave me $$$ to go away-so I did.

We love this place.

Hesenwine
October 8, 2009, 12:32 AM
Your points are well taken. However, for us lefties, singles make perfect sense. :D

hometheaterman
October 8, 2009, 01:14 AM
Never really thought about that for lefties but now that you point it out they do make a lot of sense. It seems to be fairly hard to find left handed guns. Most people I know that are left handed end up just learning to shoot a right handed gun to the availability.

jem375
October 8, 2009, 01:09 PM
If you really are interested in single shot rifles try this website:
www.sskindustries.com
JD Jones at his best

If you enjoyed reading about "Single Shot Rifles" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!