[isthatajoke?]

So I just moved from my parent's house into an apartment and I didn't have a gun (I'm 19.) So today I went to the store and picked up a New England Firearms Pardner Pump Protector for $225 new. This is a home defense model and it has a cylinder bore 18.5 inch barrel, a five shot capacity, and all is black with synthetic stock and forend. I've since read some other prices on the internet and it seems i paid a little much for it.

Anyway, I'm psyched! I haven't had a gun since I pawned my 10/22 (which I regret.) There are a few sketchier types of people here and OP has a lot more crime than the city in which I used to live, so the fact that I have a 12 gauge pump with Federal Premium 00 buck makes me feel safe and secure. I figured the shotgun is the best choice because of its devastating effects at close range and the fact that it is less likely to penetrate the walls than a rifle (i'm 19 so shotgun or rifle were pretty much my only choices. guess i could have gone with a pistol caliber carbine, but I would rather have the classic and proven home defense gun- the 12 gauge.)

It looks and feels good except for a few scratches or toolmarks on the barrel but they are very light and not noticeable. The action is smooth and seems to cycle with less effort than other pump shotguns. I haven't shot it yet, but it will definitely get some action next weekend.

Do you recommend using birdshot rather than the buck for penetration reasons? The longest distance possible in my apartment is about 25-30 feet.

Disclaimer: The pic is not of my specific Pardner Pump Protector. I got it off of a google image search.

[chevyforlife21]

in my area a pardner pump in gander mtn is about 300 so sounds good to me. i know you can get them for 175 in some places. a great gun and a great choice btw. bird shot does act like a slug at shot under about 15 feet so you would be fine with that most likely plus the ammo is super cheap that way and safer for your neighbors of course.

[jakemccoy]

.......................

[zhyla]

Everything I've read says birdshot lacks the penetration to put a crazy person down. But the upshot is it lacks the penetration to do much harm after a couple sheets of drywall. Buckshot on the other hand will go thru many, many walls. Check out http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm for some data.

I've got penetration concerns too so I'm considering birdshot. It's not a good tradeoff, but in my particular situation it's the best option. At very close range it could be a tablespoon of sand and still get the job done of course.

[Ohio Gun Guy]

I like heavy bird shot...... Not 00 Buck, but the largest bird shot "BB".

best of both IMO. The below link has a great table showing sizes of Bird and Buck shot.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

[Ohio Gun Guy]

I just went to the "Box of Truth" site listed above. That is GREAT and should be required reading. I'll eat my hat:o, and get some 00 buck next chance I get. :scrutiny:

[swampboy]

You didn't do too bad. I was in Dick's yesterday and that gun is now going for $219.99 + tax. Wish I had bought all they had back in early '06 when they were $149. Solid, solid shotgun. Made in China and that bothers some people, but it's, dollar for dollar, probably the best value around in a "working class" shotgun.

[isthatajoke?]

Does anyone know if it's bad to dry fire the Protector? Because when I got it yesterday i pumped the action and dry fired it probably 25 times.

[chevyforlife21]

yes dry firing will break the firing pin. it is bad to dry fire any gun especialy rimfires. its ok to dry fire once every few months or so though.

[Shpadoinkel]

Some say dry-fire is bad, others say it's not a problem.
I wouldn't worry about it too much, just don't make a habit of it.


Oh, and I got a Pardner Protector last weekend. My Knoxx Stock is coming in this week and I'm looking into light options.
And by the time it's all said and done, I'll have spent less than a new 870 Express.
Can't beat that.

[RatDrall]

yes dry firing will break the firing pin. it is bad to dry fire any gun especialy rimfires. its ok to dry fire once every few months or so though.

Any gun, really?

Many guns require dry firing as part of the disassembly process for cleaning, and can be dry fired over and over and over again without problems.

[tactikel]

Congratulations on purchacing a fine HD gun. Try to find #4 buckshot (not always easy)- it has less penetration than 00 or slugs. Shoot your new gun as much as possible, to: become familiar with it, to confirm its reliability, and to learn to load, shoulder, fire (and repeat). Birdshot is for birds. However if you are really concerned about overpenetration, a #2 lead (or heavishot) birdshot load (turkey load) would certainly put down an assailant at 20 feet.
Try slugs, you will be amazed at the accuracy you can achieve even with a bead for a sight (my 20 ga 870 will shoot 4" groups at 50 yards with a bead).
pattern several different types of buckshot (each gun "likes" certain shot sizes) using a 9" paper plate as your vital area.

[MAX100]

You got a very good tough as nails shotgun that is backed by Remington and 870 shotgun parts. You can't get any better than that.

My Pardner Protector patterns very well with the lower cost Remington Express 00 Buck. Being in an apartment and possibly injuring innocent bystanders you might want to consider using #1 or #4 buckshot.

Dave's quote: There is no problem with dry firing and 870 so there should no problem doing it with the 870 clone Pardner Pump.


GC

[swampboy]

I've dry fired my Pardner on occasion, but I don't make a habit of it. Hasn't hurt anything yet.

[jakemccoy]

My 870P is loaded with 00 buck. If I fire my shotgun in my house, it will be an extreme circumstance where I feel overwhelmed by a threat to my life. I'm not fooling around with bird shot in such a situation. I've considered over-penetration issues, and it's not too much of a problem in my home setup.

By the way, a round like bird shot BB is the average of each world (average penetration and average stopping power). It's not the "best of both worlds". Let's be accurate.

[Rshooter]

If you are really worried about over penetration and do not want to use 00 or slugs go with #4 shot. As some other poster said birdshot is for birds. I use Remington Sluggers.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2009/02/home-defense-shotgun-ammunition-basics.html

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

By all accounts I've read, the Pardner pump is an excellent value shotgun; congrats.

There's an article floating around that concludes that #1 Buckshot is about the optimal balance of penetration and effectiveness, with good supporting reasoning. But I still use 000 buck for home defense.

[FLNT4EVR]

You done good. I've had my Protector to the range and realy put it thru it's paces.bird shot,buck shot,and slugs it handled them all flawlessly. It's a good strong utility shotgun and will give years and years of good service . With slugs ,it liked the Remington sluggers the best.

[c5_nc]

I like my NEF protector also, I did the $166 Budsgunshop.com deal and paid $10 for a local transfer. I think they are slightly more now. They are fine guns. I keep Nobel #4 Law Enforcement Buckshoot handy for mine, I've noticed a lot of vendors picking it up now, Aimsurplus, sportsman's guide, graf's, etc. Shooting inside an appartment is calculated risk with any round, I would not assume birdshoot will not pass through and kill a neighbor. Idealy you would only shoot when you have no other choice, your life is at risk and you have a close threat that you are likely hit, so rounds will not be passing much outside their body anyways. You have a big responsilbity on when and how to shoot, and its magnified in a appartment complex. Modern appartments should have firewalls and more insulation between units. I'd probably carry #4 Buckshot in mine (which I do).

[Fred Fuller]

Your shotgun should serve you well, as long as you do your part. Remember, you still have to hit with it- and it's pretty easy to miss with a shotgun at close range, where patterns are small. As 'Dr. Dave' says- BA/UU/R.

Take a look at http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx , check the "Find A Course" page for a class locator, and see if you can get into the Personal Protection In The Home course. If you follow the precepts of that class, you can harden the wall behind the 'fatal funnel' established by the room you choose to defend. Solidly loaded bookshelves, heavy furniture, full filing cabinets- there are all sorts of options available for the purpose. That, plus being sure you hit what you shoot at, will do a lot to alleviate worry about overpenetration.

Here we use 00 buck (Federal LE 127-00) in the magazines of the house guns, backed up with Brenneke KO slugs in the Sidesaddles. You have to make your own decisions about what you will use. The fact that there are more documented uses of 00 buck in the antipersonnel role than anything else in the US at least makes it more of a known quantity. That's why we use it here...

Stay Safe,

lpl

[isthatajoke?]

Your shotgun should serve you well, as long as you do your part. Remember, you still have to hit with it- and it's pretty easy to miss with a shotgun at close range, where patterns are small. As 'Dr. Dave' says- BA/UU/R.

Take a look at http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx , check the "Find A Course" page for a class locator, and see if you can get into the Personal Protection In The Home course. If you follow the precepts of that class, you can harden the wall behind the 'fatal funnel' established by the room you choose to defend. Solidly loaded bookshelves, heavy furniture, full filing cabinets- there are all sorts of options available for the purpose. That, plus being sure you hit what you shoot at, will do a lot to alleviate worry about overpenetration.

Here we use 00 buck (Federal LE 127-00) in the magazines of the house guns, backed up with Brenneke KO slugs in the Sidesaddles. You have to make your own decisions about what you will use. The fact that there are more documented uses of 00 buck in the antipersonnel role than anything else in the US at least makes it more of a known quantity. That's why we use it here...

Stay Safe,

lpl
Just wanted to clarify the point that I can definitely hit what I aim at. I've been shooting guns since the age of ten. I'm a very good shot and I have a lot of experience with rifles and shotguns.

And secondly, I'm kind of in a bad way as far as the "fatal funnel" goes. A break in at my place could (concievably) come from one of three places: My front door, my deck sliding door (it would not be that difficult to climb up to my deck. I'm on the second floor and directly beneath my deck is a patio which has a fence around it), or from my bedroom window (the least likely route of invasion. Doing this would entail putting a ladder up to the window and then breaking through it.)

If someone breaks through my bedroom window, then I would simply have to hear the noise, pick up my 12 gauge which stays next to the bed in between the bed and the wall, rack the slide, and shoot. However, if someone broke in through the front door or the balcony sliding door (which are the two more likely scenarios), my "tunnel of death" or whatever you called it would end at my bedroom door. My bedroom door faces my front door and is the farthest door from the front door. So my field of fire is such that, were I to miss, there is a strong possibility that the rounds would go through my door or wall and then penetrate into my neighbor's apartment accross the hallway.

However, I have realized that if I shoot at someone who is in that corridor, that I will most likely hit the person, seeing as how the farthest distance would be about 20 feet, and there is also the fact that I have a cylinder bore gun and that I am a good shot with a shotgun. A shotgun is definitely easiest for me to hit with and packs way more punch than a pistol. And anyway, I would rather take the small risk of having some collateral damage than die.


I finally got to shoot the Protector the other day. Not wanting to pay to join the range, me and a few buddies drove out to the country, not really knowing just where we would end up (lol), shotgun in tow. Once we got to a sparsly populated area, I set up targets (an old set of hubcaps) about 20 feet away. Boom, boom. Piece of cake. 2 hubcaps blown to smitherines. Not quite as challenging as shooting skeet, but still fun. Long story short, after a few more shots we got the hell out of there since it wasn't our land. This weekend we are going camping and bringing our guns. It should be a blast.

[mljdeckard]

No birdshot. Get some #4 or 00 buck.

[isthatajoke?]

Ya I decided "screw the birdshot, I want the ammo that I know will stop an attacker to be in my gun. " Federal Premium 00 buck.

[zhyla]

Regarding your tactical situation, it sounds like a small place. Aren't you most likely to know where the intruder is unless you're asleep? And if you are woken by an intruder outside your bedroom you can just hole up in the bedroom. I'm assuming you don't have anyone outside that room to protect.

[nelson133]

That Nobel #4 buck is a pretty hot load. I've tried it in my HD shotguns, including the Partner, and the repeat shots are slower than I like. I've gone to the LE load, feels more like a 20 gauge, with plenty of 00 buck pellets.

[JFrame]

To the OP -- If you haven't already, you may also want to look over this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=452403

The issue of dry-firing the Pardner came up, and it was pretty much answered to my satisfaction... :)

[Dr_2_B]

I go with #4 buck loads for HD

[mrokern]

Just wanted to clarify the point that I can definitely hit what I aim at. I've been shooting guns since the age of ten. I'm a very good shot and I have a lot of experience with rifles and shotguns.

And secondly, I'm kind of in a bad way as far as the "fatal funnel" goes. A break in at my place could (concievably) come from one of three places: My front door, my deck sliding door (it would not be that difficult to climb up to my deck. I'm on the second floor and directly beneath my deck is a patio which has a fence around it), or from my bedroom window (the least likely route of invasion. Doing this would entail putting a ladder up to the window and then breaking through it.)

If someone breaks through my bedroom window, then I would simply have to hear the noise, pick up my 12 gauge which stays next to the bed in between the bed and the wall, rack the slide, and shoot. However, if someone broke in through the front door or the balcony sliding door (which are the two more likely scenarios), my "tunnel of death" or whatever you called it would end at my bedroom door. My bedroom door faces my front door and is the farthest door from the front door. So my field of fire is such that, were I to miss, there is a strong possibility that the rounds would go through my door or wall and then penetrate into my neighbor's apartment accross the hallway.

However, I have realized that if I shoot at someone who is in that corridor, that I will most likely hit the person, seeing as how the farthest distance would be about 20 feet, and there is also the fact that I have a cylinder bore gun and that I am a good shot with a shotgun. A shotgun is definitely easiest for me to hit with and packs way more punch than a pistol. And anyway, I would rather take the small risk of having some collateral damage than die.


I finally got to shoot the Protector the other day. Not wanting to pay to join the range, me and a few buddies drove out to the country, not really knowing just where we would end up (lol), shotgun in tow. Once we got to a sparsly populated area, I set up targets (an old set of hubcaps) about 20 feet away. Boom, boom. Piece of cake. 2 hubcaps blown to smitherines. Not quite as challenging as shooting skeet, but still fun. Long story short, after a few more shots we got the hell out of there since it wasn't our land. This weekend we are going camping and bringing our guns. It should be a blast.
What Lee was getting at is that a highly recommended strategy (which is taught in PPITH) is to solidify a "safe room", if you will...and from there, be able to call the authorities / defend yourself.

There's nothing outside of my bedroom that's worth dying or killing for. Plus, if someone would kick in the bedroom door, the last place you'd want to be would be directly in their line of sight from the first moment.

We're lucky...our bedroom contains a nice little hallway / closet area that is out of sight from the door. Cell phone is in bedroom, key (to throw to cops out the window) is in bedroom, shotgun is in bedroom, along with multiple flashlights and handguns by our hidey-hole.

They can have the TV. If they come into the bedroom and turn a corner, they die.

The "backstop" wall is an exterior, with no houses for almost half a mile (golf course in the way). I'll keep my buckshot.

-Mark

[lobo9er]

my only advice to you is dont tell any of your friends you have a shotgun don't show it off and dont talk about. i was 19 not to long ago. got an apt at 18 at your age your gonna meet alot friends that turn out to be scum bags i promise you that. if your stuff gets stolen its more than likly one of your friends or girl friends stole it while you were not looking, not a break in hd situation and people know who has guns and guns get stolen and if it gets stolen it ain't gonna protect you.