AR15/M16, M1-Garand/M14/Carbine MATCH (ends 9/08/09)


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helz_mcfugly
August 4, 2009, 12:59 PM
This is the Aug. match for Ar-15's, M16's & M1-Garands, M1-M14's, M1-Carbine.

CLASS 1: AR-15/M-16:
50 yard IRON SIGHT
50 yard unmagnified optics (ie. red dot)
100 yard IRON SIGHT
100 yard Optics
100 yard unmagnified optics (ie. red dot)
200 yard IRON SIGHT
200 yard Optics

Class 2: M1-Garand, M1-M14, M1-Carbine:
50 yard IRON SIGHT
100 yard IRON SIGHT
200 yard IRON SIGHT

You will fire 5 shots onto the target set at a range of 50, 100, or 200yds.
It doesnt matter what paper target you use as long as there are no other bullet holes within 8 inches or so of the group you are submitting. You can shoot from any position.

When you have a target you're satisfied with you need to make note on the target the following information:

username
group size (use a mic in the pic or use the MOA software)
firearm & sighting system
ammunition
date fired
and firearm.

Then post a picture of the Target and the rifle used.

You may submit as many targets as you wish provided one of three things
1. the new group betters the last (leave the old pic up)
2. the new group is for a different class
3. It was shot with another firearm

The cutoff date for submissions is Sept 8th. The day after Labor Day.

So get those rifles out and get to shooting and most of all have fun. :D

http://www.suttonfruit.com/pics/scoreboard.jpg

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gvnwst
August 4, 2009, 02:45 PM
Well, if I can work up some good loads (finally found some primers, they getting in tonight, should be able to get a K or 2) I will probably enter in a few of these classes...if the groups are good enough. :D

You gonna have Bryan throw some leaderboards togther?

FlyinBryan
August 4, 2009, 09:14 PM
he can probably make a better one than me.

he used to work for the internet

helz_mcfugly
August 5, 2009, 11:00 AM
Mods, sticky por favor

FlyinBryan
August 5, 2009, 11:50 AM
lol, im the guy with the lambchop sideburns and mullet right behind the guy with no hat

helz_mcfugly
August 5, 2009, 12:06 PM
LMAO, im the guy with no shirt and horned hat behind the dude with the mullet

FlyinBryan
August 5, 2009, 01:43 PM
i cant wait to see the carbine groups

FlyinBryan
August 5, 2009, 07:15 PM
can we get some sticky love?

gvnwst
August 6, 2009, 05:50 PM
Intresting leaderboard...:D

R.W.Dale
August 8, 2009, 09:24 PM
I claim first submission
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/3a598ed5.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/ed917f7c.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/30c36810.jpg

Oddly enough my 50yd group was only slightly smaller than my 100

helz_mcfugly
August 9, 2009, 01:21 AM
nice shooting mang. I like the old style furniture on that rifle

R.W.Dale
August 9, 2009, 02:23 AM
nice shooting mang. I like the old style furniture on that rifle

Not just old school furniture but a genuine old school surplus 603 upper too, compete with pencil thin 1-12 chrome lined bbl no shell deflector and A1 sights.

I must say I really really like this layout much better than the overbalanced 20" H bar's you get today, and as the group shows the accuracy is still there too

eatatjoes
August 11, 2009, 10:37 PM
CLASS 1: AR-15/M-16:
50 yard IRON SIGHT

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/redmodels/DSCF1214.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/redmodels/DSCF1216.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/redmodels/BCM20part2.jpg

:)

.45Guy
August 12, 2009, 11:59 AM
Is the carbine division open to civilian copies?

helz_mcfugly
August 12, 2009, 12:00 PM
Is the carbine division open to civilian copies?

oh yea, fire away.

.45Guy
August 12, 2009, 12:24 PM
Will do, just have to find a day when the local gendarmerie isn't on duty.

eatatjoes
August 12, 2009, 07:32 PM
CLASS 1: AR-15/M-16:
50 yard unmagnified optics (ie. red dot)

Had to borrow my instructor's rifle for this one, hopefully I'll be able to use it again at 100 yards later in the month. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/redmodels/DSCF1221-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/redmodels/DSCF1219-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/redmodels/StagAP.jpg

FlyinBryan
August 12, 2009, 07:45 PM
Nice shootin e.

dang them fliers

helz_mcfugly
August 12, 2009, 09:19 PM
i cant wait to hit the range and get on that 200 yard

LoneStarWings
August 12, 2009, 10:19 PM
M1A Scout, no modifications, iron sights, indoor range, bench rest. It'll do a bit better with optics. Initially measured with a ruler but got more precise with the ontarget program.

.920" at 50 yards and 1.613" at 100 yards. Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr .308 ammo was used.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/LoneStarWings/m1abed.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/LoneStarWings/50ydsontarget.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/LoneStarWings/100ydsontarget.jpg

helz_mcfugly
August 12, 2009, 11:01 PM
love that M1A. Im looking for one with wood and an 03-A3 to add to my collection. nice shooting.

LoneStarWings
August 12, 2009, 11:16 PM
Thanks! Stupid me adjusted the elevation the wrong way from 50 to 100, which is why the POI is way off.

helz_mcfugly
August 12, 2009, 11:25 PM
group size (use a mic in the pic or use the MOA software)


Im sure they are what you say, I checked them with the program best I could so Ill leave them up. but could ya toss a mic on there or use the www.ontargetcalc.com program. the program is great.

LoneStarWings
August 12, 2009, 11:43 PM
I just dl'ed ontarget. Cool program. It says my groups are tighter than what I measured, but not by much. I guess you can use whichever score you prefer, helz. 0.920" and 1.613" respectively. I've updated my original submission with the ontarget images.

helz_mcfugly
August 13, 2009, 08:59 AM
yea that program rocks. the best way to use it is how eatatjoes up there did it. If you put a ruler in your pic and take the pic directly above the paper you can set the 1" on the program so it gets it perfect.
Heres another fun one. Its a long range shooting simulation http://www.shooterready.com/lrsdemohi.html

JDGray
August 13, 2009, 08:15 PM
Shot this 100yrd group today with my RRA Predator Pursuit. Was shot of a frt rest and a rear bag. Scope is a Weaver T24, handloaded ammo used: Sierra 60gr Varminters, 24gr H335:) I know you snipers will be along soon, so good luck.:p This is a personal best group, for this rifle;)
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b278/JDG357/IMG_0109.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b278/JDG357/IMG_0110.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b278/JDG357/IMG_3157.jpg

otrman
August 13, 2009, 09:56 PM
very nice JDGrey. Finally got some more powder and working on some loads so hopefully work will let up some so I can get to the range.

LoneStarWings
August 14, 2009, 03:06 AM
Agreed, 1/2 MOA @ 100 yards is impressive! Nice group.

skidooman603
August 14, 2009, 05:02 AM
What a friggen cool idea. Will have to take out the RRA NM. Keep up the good work Y'all

JDGray
August 14, 2009, 05:10 AM
Thanks Guys!:)

eatatjoes
August 21, 2009, 05:40 PM
*2 NEW ENTRIES*

CLASS 1: AR-15/M-16:
50 yard unmagnified optics (ie. red dot)

This is the same rifle I shot the first entry with, I can take another picture if you want.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/redmodels/DSCF1233-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/redmodels/Stag50AimpointPPU.jpg

CLASS 1: AR-15/M-16:
100 yard unmagnified optics (ie. red dot)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/redmodels/DSCF1235-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/redmodels/Stag100AimpointSB.jpg

:)

helz_mcfugly
August 22, 2009, 04:39 PM
awesome shooting. ill update the board shortly

1858
August 24, 2009, 05:31 AM
Trying out three Varget loads today along with a new (used) Jewell two-stage trigger and nose-against-the-charging-handle technique i.e. moved scope forward.

My official entry (24.7gr Varget) shot prone with a bipod.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/dpms/range_targets/ar15_082309.jpg

Two other Varget loads at 25.0gr and 25.3gr came close today. In fact, the 25.3gr load matched the 24.7gr load at 0.473 MOA. I omitted the one flier in the 25.0gr group but that group isn't entered in the match. I just wanted to show the consistency (OCW) of the 25.0gr +/- 0.3gr load. Notice how the 24.7gr and 25.0gr groups are in the same position on the target relative to the point of aim. The 25.3gr is a little higher but not much.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/dpms/range_targets/ar15_082309_2.jpg

The rifle is a Bushmaster lower, DPMS upper with 24" barrel, Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm FFP M1 scope, MAGPUL PRS stock, Jewell two-stage trigger, TROY BUIS, Harris S-LM bipod etc.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/dpms/ar15.jpg

I shot the 10-shot 0.930 MOA group show below at 200 yards a couple of weeks ago with the same 25.0gr Varget load. When I got home after the match I noticed that the take-down cam pin that I use in the rear was loose. I obviously hadn't tightened it properly after cleaning the rifle prior to the match. The S1 and S2 shots are the first two sighters.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/dpms/range_targets/200_slow_08-09-09_2.jpg

:)

helz_mcfugly
August 24, 2009, 10:26 AM
nice. i know you love that 2 stage jewel trigger. I know I do mine. best trigger made IMO

1858
August 24, 2009, 02:03 PM
nice. i know you love that 2 stage jewel trigger. I know I do mine. best trigger made IMO

Nice until ortman comes along .... but that's ok since I know that a group in the 3's would be luck (for me) whereas I can regularly shoot in the 4's. In other words, I'm at the limit of the rifle, the load and most importantly, my abilities ... I can live with that.

As for the Jewell trigger, I'm trying it out and can buy it from a friend if I like it. I've been using a Timney 3lb single stage in that rifle for the last year and a half but have "doubled" with it on quite a few occasions. The Jewell is set at 2lb for the first stage and 1lb for the second stage. The first stage pull is LONG but so far I'm liking it and will most likely buy it. I'm also trying a Geissele SSA in my carbine. The second stage on the Jewell feels more crisp and I can feel a little bit of creep on the Geissele.

:)

helz_mcfugly
August 24, 2009, 02:10 PM
ortman might be the cats ass with optics but nbkky71 with iron sights is sergical.
check it, post 167
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=452551&page=7

LoneStarWings
August 24, 2009, 08:15 PM
Well i figured I'd give 200 irons a try. Embarassing that this was the best I could do :cuss: I hate fliers! But i guess it's still good enough for 1st, for now :) The wind was blowing left to right at 10 knots, this was my first group with the 175gr, thus the high POI vs the 168's i was shooting earlier, but it turned out to be my tightest of the day.

200 yds, Iron Sights, M1A, 4.737":
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/LoneStarWings/200ydsontarget.jpg


Sooooo Close with this one, but where did the 5th shot go :barf:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/LoneStarWings/bogus.jpg

I will try again next week, I know I can get those fliers back in the center :D

Another picture of the rifle, for good measure:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/LoneStarWings/m1ayard3.jpg

Orlando
August 24, 2009, 08:39 PM
Just curious, Is this a contest to how well someone can shoot or how well the rifle shoots off bags and a rest?
I would be interested if we would do a shoot any position or whatever but no benchs or rests

LoneStarWings
August 24, 2009, 08:58 PM
Any position including bench rest is allowed in this. My problem is that none of the ranges around me allow anything but bench rest rifle shooting. Everyone is worried about something going over their berm. I actually shoot better prone than from the bench, I think.

eatatjoes
August 25, 2009, 12:26 AM
Just curious, Is this a contest to how well someone can shoot or how well the rifle shoots off bags and a rest?
I would be interested if we would do a shoot any position or whatever but no benchs or rests

Can't it be both? How well someone can shoot their rifle off bags and a rest? :neener:

Position shooting really requires some special equipment to get the best groups whereas bench/rested shooting can be done to a fair degree with some folded towels or bags of sand. It may take less skill and be less impressive but it is still something that requires the fundamentals and is a decent way to conduct a contest open to a wide group of people with varying ability and equipment. :)

The June match had a category for standing:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=452551

Maybe we'll see some required position shooting in the future? But as I understand it you can shoot from any position you prefer for these matches.

1858
August 25, 2009, 01:08 AM
Just curious, Is this a contest to how well someone can shoot or how well the rifle shoots off bags and a rest? I would be interested if we would do a shoot any position or whatever but no benchs or rests

That's one big can of worms there. If you know anything about high power rifle shooting, just think of the slings, coats and gloves that they use. A properly adjusted sling makes for an incredibly stable shooting platform. Is NRA high power realistic in terms of practical shooting ... not in my opinion. It's definitely a highly skillful endeavor with some basics that are applicable to other more practical shooting disciplines, but that's about it.

Perhaps you need to run your own match with your own set of rules. It would be interesting to have a 100 and 200 yard "hunting" match with targets shot on the same day from a bench (test rifle for a baseline), standing, kneeling/sitting and prone with NO bipods, slings or rests of any kind. Now that's what I call practical shooting since you never know what you'll need to do in order to see the target while trying to maintain your own cover.

:)

Orlando
August 25, 2009, 06:32 AM
When I shoot at my range I use no "special" equipment and dont bags,rest.
I'm not knocking anyone but this isnt a show of shooters skill by shooting off bags

Hud
August 25, 2009, 08:52 AM
Orlando,
If you have a .22 rimfire & would like to try your hand at "no accessory" position shooting, there is a scaled target class for that in this months rimfire match on this board.
It's been available the last couple of months, but not many have shot it & no one has submitted a target this month in that class, so you could probably win by default, unless Otrman shoots (he ace'd it last month & that's NOT easy to do).

helz_mcfugly
August 25, 2009, 08:57 AM
When I shoot at my range I use no "special" equipment and dont bags,rest.
I'm not knocking anyone but this isnt a show of shooters skill by shooting off bags

this is true in some aspects. snipers, for the most part, use a rest of some type, be it a fellow troops shoulder or the side of a wall to a bipod. but then you have these guys using the sled and pulling the trigger with a push button only looking through the scope to zero in. Now if we all had access to ranges out to 500 yards +, benchrest shooting would be more the shooter then the rifle, but we dont, so this is it. This contest is more rifle then shooter, except for the open sight class, but its just for fun.

If you would like to host a contest just start a new thread and the mods will make it a sticky. Or make a set of rules and one of us will host it. Ide sure give it a shot. A standing only match sounds cool. you would have to leave it open for a long time as all ranges don't permit it.

JDGray
August 25, 2009, 07:04 PM
Now, now, boys.....Can't we all just get along?:)

This is a shooting match, not a pissing match!

If you don't like the rules, simply dont play. But were all curious to how well you can shoot, Orlando, with or without a rest-bipod-bag. So don't go away mad, post a target for us;)

Orlando
August 25, 2009, 07:39 PM
My post has absolutly nothing to do with the rules or wether I liked them or not I was simply asking questions.
I am no expert shot and need plenty more practice. My prone and ,sitting is OK but standing Off hand needs plenty of work


100 yds prone, iron sights,M1 Garand ( no mods) with surplus ammo
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/MVC-007S-1-1.jpg

100 yds prone ,iron sights M1A, standard grade no mods, surplus ammo
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/MVC-006S.jpg

I would have to do some looking around to see if I have any pics of AR15 targets

JDGray
August 25, 2009, 08:57 PM
Now limit those targets to 5rds, and your probably in 1st place:D

Very good shooting!

Orlando
August 25, 2009, 09:00 PM
Thanks, I'm not in the competition. Just posting pics because they were asked for

JDGray
August 25, 2009, 09:18 PM
Just trying to recruit some more shooters, is all. These monthly matches are fun, and the more people that participate, the better.:)

R.W.Dale
August 30, 2009, 09:55 AM
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/53844558.jpg

posted from the range via my iPhone

JDGray
August 30, 2009, 10:01 AM
:eek: With irons? Thats awesome shooting right there!:)

Orlando
August 30, 2009, 10:14 AM
Yep, very, very nice. I cant get those kind of groups with irons and factory ammo

helz_mcfugly
August 31, 2009, 11:15 AM
heck I cant get those kind of groups with my friggin leapold. great shooting Krochus.

ForneyRider
September 5, 2009, 09:55 PM
52gr SMK (2.27 OAL)
24.5gr AA2230
R-P brass
Fed 205 primer

3100fps through the chrony.

DPMS Panther bull 20(stock trigger)
Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x42 with sunshade

5 shot group @100 yards .5in (.724-.224)

JDGray
September 6, 2009, 12:29 PM
Nice group FR!

ForneyRider
September 6, 2009, 06:46 PM
Nice group FR!
Thanks, it's been a lot of work. I did 3 different bullets, 36gr VG, 52gr SMK, and 75gr Hornady BTHP. The 75gr did .6. Got a Original Bob Sled for the big ones!

otrman
September 6, 2009, 08:23 PM
Well I finally got to the range today and it was hot, thought I made a wrong turn somewhere and was on the sun. 92 degrees and zero wind. Anyway didn't stay long but got a couple good groups.
Rifle:
Mega upper
SI Defense lower
Lilja 24" SS Match Bull Barrel
Timney single stage trigger 3 lbs.
Young Mfg. NM Chrome BCG
Magpul PRS and grip
YHM free float hand guard
Nightforce NXS 3.5x15x50 MLR scope w/sunshade
A.R.M.S. #35 QD track mount w/rings
Harris bipod with A.R.M.S. QD mount

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=102721&d=1249346739

JDGray
September 6, 2009, 08:46 PM
otrman,
very, very, nice;)

How do you like that stock?

otrman
September 6, 2009, 11:30 PM
Thank you JD. I absolutely love that stock for a couple of reasons. It is really heavy, something like 28 oz. or so, and helped the balance. It is still muzzle heavy but not as bad as it would be without it. Second, some days the neck and shoulder are stiffer than others and changing the LOP and cheek weld only requires turning a knob.

lencac
September 6, 2009, 11:33 PM
Here's my entry I shot today.

1858
September 9, 2009, 03:41 AM
otrman, great shooting again ... I knew you'd be along at some point to show us where the bar is at. I have the same stock as you and I like it too. Is that the NXS 3.5-15x50 F1 scope? I'm thinking about ordering one of those for my .308 if it is.

:)

otrman
September 9, 2009, 09:36 AM
Thanks, 1858. I about didn't make it this time, things been real crazy at work. No it is not the F1, just a plain NSX with MLR(mil line reticle). I like it better than the hollow dots Nightforce uses in their mil dot reticle, whick I think is better than the solid dots. In general I haven't found a FFP scope that I like and I haven't seen the F1 as of yet. The problem that I've had with the ones I've been able to handle is the reticle can completely cover smaller targets at long ranges. Another issue I had with them is the reticle is so small at lower powers that it is very difficult to see, that coming from someone with 20/10 vision. Usually had to come up 2 to 4 powers to be able to see enough of the reticle to use it, just seems like some wasted scope on the bottom end. Just keep in mind that I can be very OCD when it comes to shooting and things that bother or irritate me most don't seem to notice. I would try to find one to look at in person before I would just order one, 2200.00+ is a hard way to figure out you don't like it. For a .308 I would go with a little more power, 5.5x22x50 or 56 NSX, especially if you plan to reach out to its limits. I shot a friends .308 bolt at 1000 yards with a 4.5x14x50 Leupold Var. III and I spent most of the day trying to turn power ring past 14, lol.

1858
September 9, 2009, 08:39 PM
otrman, I have a FFP Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm on one of my AR's (the one shown in this thread) so I am somewhat familiar with FFP scopes. I like the scope and don't have any problems with it out to 300 yards which is as far as I've used it. My Rem 700 in .308 currently has a Mark 4 6.5-20x50mm but my POF "AR-10" has a Mark 4 3.5-10x40mm on it. I tend to put higher magnification optics on firearms that have superior long range accuracy potential.

Ultimately, my objective is to consistently hit 1 MOA targets out to 1000 yards. I recently used a S&B PMII 4-16x FFP scope at 600 yards and had no trouble getting hits inside a 1 MOA target so I think that the NXS F1 could work well for F-Class type targets. I'm not sure how well it'd work at 1000 yards though.

:)

otrman
September 9, 2009, 09:02 PM
1858, I guess part of the issues I've had with FFP scopes is the ones I've had a chance to play with are somewhat lower on the food chain than what you have. In that type of scope I'm sure it makes a world of difference. The furthest I've gotten to shoot my AR is 400 yards(didn't have it finished when I went to the 1000 yd. range) at 5 in. square plates and it was no problem. I plan on getting down to the 1000 yd. range in the next month just to see what it can do.

1858
September 9, 2009, 09:23 PM
What bullet are you going to use at 1000 yards? I bought a bunch of 80gr A-MAX bullets for 600 yards but haven't worked up a load yet. As you probably know, the 80gr loads won't fit in standard AR magazines so they need to be single loaded.

:)

ForneyRider
September 13, 2009, 01:01 PM
Thanks for setting this up again. It really has motivated me to get better shooting, reloading and just get out to the range and shoot.

Original Bob Sled for single loading is great. It is legal for NRA high power as well. I got a good rhythm with single loading and using the sled and a brass catcher.

For 1000 yard shooting, I'd look into variable scope with 32-45x max magnification. Burris, Sightron are about $800, Nightforce BR is $1300, and a March Scope is $2200 at Kelbly's.

Congrats OTRman.

If you enjoyed reading about "AR15/M16, M1-Garand/M14/Carbine MATCH (ends 9/08/09)" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!