I bought a Taurus PT709 "Slim".....


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cmfireman
August 4, 2009, 05:21 PM
Picked up a new in box PT709 "Slim" from the local gunshop today. A nice polymer frame single stack 9mm with stainless steel slide.

Felt good in my hands, came with a plastic case, 2 magazines, a bore brush, and two keys to "lock" the gun with. Got out the door for a reasonable price, and thought I had found my perfect CCW piece.

I was a little skeptical about buying a Taurus because of the "love it/hate it" attitude on here, and even more skeptical about buying a gun that has just hit the shelves, but I jumped anyways.

I got it home and did the prerequisite cleaning, removing all the gunk the manufacturer put on it for preservation. I used some Hoppes and Rem-Oil, and had it looking great inside and out.

To the range....

I had 200 rounds of 115gr. WWB to break her in with. Loaded the first magazine and fired off 2 shots with the smooth SA trigger, and on the 3rd shot, it failed to return to battery. Looked like the ejector failed to completely remove the previous round and the round in the magazine butted up against it.

I locked back the slide, dropped the magazine, and pushed the slide release to allow me to manually eject the spent casing. I tried the slingshot method and the slide release method for chambering the first round multiple times, and then I moved on to the other magazine to see if that was the problem.

So, about 100 rounds of two different lot #'s of WWB, I would estimate that 20-25 jammed. I also tried some Win. 115gr HP's, and jammed on the first one.

I guess it's off to Taurus customer service to see if they're really as bad as I've heard.:(

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W L Johnson
August 4, 2009, 05:28 PM
Just fired off about 200 rounds with mine this past Sunday without a single failure. It was a mix of WWB, CCI Blazer and Remmy Golden Sabers. Some people have reported issues with WWB so you may want to try something else to check. I would never sent off a gun to repair without changing the brand of ammo first with the kind if issues you had.

Check this thread, one of the posters had problems with WWB on his 709 as well.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=462066

cmfireman
August 4, 2009, 05:56 PM
I will try something besides WWB in it, but after another takedown and inspection, it appears I may have a decent burr on the extractor.

I know a bit about handguns, but as my P89 has never jammed, I don't know much about extractors. Can anyone tell me if this looks right?

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/cmfireman1608/IMG_0306.jpg?t=1249419255

Also, would you recommend taking it to a gunsmith to get the extractor deburred or just sending it to Taurus?

Here is a pic of the jam:
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/cmfireman1608/IMG_0313.jpg?t=1249419337

And the magazine upon removal:
http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp40/cmfireman1608/IMG_0315.jpg?t=1249419388

W L Johnson
August 4, 2009, 06:05 PM
I can't compare that to mine at this moment, I'm sitting in a coffee shop right now and they might get upset if I start fooling around with my 709.

cmfireman
August 4, 2009, 06:08 PM
Ha. I'm sure someone will be around to help me out. I have a box of Rem. FMJ's I'll try out in a while.

Does the gun seem extremely dirty after just firing 70-75 rounds or is it just me?

Cougfan2
August 4, 2009, 06:21 PM
Does the gun seem extremely dirty after just firing 70-75 rounds or is it just me?

In my experience, WWB ammo is fairly dirty. Nothing a little Hoppes won't cure.

W L Johnson
August 4, 2009, 06:22 PM
Wish I could find a combo coffee shop and gun shop. I could drink coffee, cruise the internet, and clean my guns, all at the same time. :) Hmmmm maybe I should start one.

cmfireman
August 4, 2009, 06:24 PM
Yea, I think I'll go ahead and clean it again before any more testing. If anyone can get a pic of their 709 extractor for comparison, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks for all the help so far!

1KPerDay
August 4, 2009, 06:57 PM
That extractor looks wonky to me... weird broken/jagged looking edge on the near corner??

robphillips
August 4, 2009, 07:20 PM
I went into a gun shop the other day that also had a plant nursey with it. Sure kept the wife happy.

BHPshooter
August 4, 2009, 08:17 PM
Haven't played with a 700-series Taurus yet, but that extractor has a serious problem.

I suppose you can make them fix it, or you can try to file it down by yourself, but that extractor just isn't right.

Wes

The Lone Haranguer
August 4, 2009, 10:17 PM
The extractor looks chipped and misshapen to me, and the most common cause of your double-feed malfunctions is a bad extractor. :rolleyes: Too bad. I looked at one of these in a gun show and it looked nice.

BHPshooter
August 4, 2009, 10:33 PM
Too bad. I looked at one of these in a gun show and it looked nice.

Don't give up just yet. ALL manufacturers have lemons slip through the cracks. Just inspect the individual examples you're looking at. That's just about all you can do.

Wes

W L Johnson
August 4, 2009, 10:39 PM
Ok.. just got home and I just looked at mine, it pretty much looks the same, except for being a little cleaner.:p I haven't had a failure yet.

22LRFan
August 4, 2009, 10:58 PM
This situation reminds me of the Kel-Tec Pf-9 I had. I was able to have K-T send me a new extractor instead of me sending in my pistol. Maybe Taurus could do the same for you. I hope everything works out for you because no one wants their semi-automatic to turn into a single-shot.

Also, I don't know what the anatomy of a 709 is...but maybe it is a loose extractor screw or weak extractor spring.

m2steven
August 4, 2009, 11:35 PM
My 709 is light striking ammo so I called Taurus about 8:00am this morning. They had a Fed Ex truck at my door at 10:20am. The person was friendly and very helpful.

My pistol loads and extracts all ammo perfectly. The photo of the 709 guts reveals (to my mind) poorly finished parts. I could not find such parts on mine, but i'm fairly sure there are some in there somewhere. I believe my pistol will come back from Taurus repaired and will work well. Other than the light strikes - it works great and frankly can't see myself parting with it.

I've read one other story about 709 light striking cartridges. Mine mostly happens with WWB, but yesterday it did it with a different brand. However, it fired 48 of 50 perfectly. I can fire it as fast as I can pull the trigger and it works flawlessly (other than whatever mechanism makes it light strike).

The other person with the light strikes got an immediate Fed Ex truck as well, prepaid as was mine. He said Taurus said it could be 5 weeks turnaround.

From what I've read on various forums, generally a gun returned from Taurus service performs well. I'll bet they have real quality control problems and most of their gunsmiths' time is spent polishing and deburring
parts.

I mean, I have a new CZ83 and it had the audacity to give me 2 stovepipes in 200 rounds. However, I was shooting really cheap stuff (Monarch steel case or something). I purchased 3 types of Monarch. The Steel seemed the most prone to problems.

As a humorous sidenote - i got out my 28 year old unfired Raven 25 to see what it would do. What it did in the first 12 rounds was present me with EVERY known pistol malfunction known to mankind: stovepipes, double feeds, feeding and ejecting problems, failures to fire; you name it, i saw it.
Plus - 2 perfect shots with no gun damage. It made my Taurus 709 look like Michaelangelo's Pieta.

DasFriek
August 5, 2009, 01:20 AM
It always sux to see someone take a leap of faith to try a weapon they normaly wouldnt consider and things not go perfect.Im a Taurus owner twice over and not had any issues,yet.And i hope it stays that way.It great to see Taurus paying for shipping both ways,that is the worst part of sending any gun in for service.(paying overnight shipping charges)
Im pretty close to pulling the trigger on a 709 also as i want a pocket sized 9mm with a manual saftey,and that isnt easy to find actually.
Ive also been lucky to find absolutly no flaws,burrs or machining marks inside either of mine (PT1911 and PT745) ,and im pretty thourogh but definetly no smith either.

Good luck man,ill be watching the results so pls update us when its returned!

sarduy
August 5, 2009, 01:47 AM
Some people have reported issues with WWB so you may want to try something else to check.

i have a gun that just won't work with WWB but eat everything alse like candy.

W L Johnson
August 5, 2009, 01:58 AM
So far every thing I have seems to works fine with WWB, but oddly my CZ RAMI ejects CCI blazer and only CCI blazer right at my eyes.

hoghead
August 5, 2009, 02:57 AM
What holster are u guys using: My 709 has been perfct so far

ugaarguy
August 5, 2009, 04:20 AM
Very good pics (macros are difficult). Sadly the extractor looks chipped, and looks to have a hairline crack to me. Send it off, and let us know how they did once you get it back.

cmfireman
August 5, 2009, 06:34 AM
It will be Monday until I can ship it, but I'll update on the repairs when I get it back.

As far as holsters, I wandered around all day yesterday with it in a size M Tagua gunleather IWB holster at about 4:00 and didn't hardly know it was there.

http://www.firestoreonline.com/ProductImages/defense/tagua.IWB.tan.full.jpg

loop
August 5, 2009, 08:21 AM
Your extractor is about to come apart.

Deal with it as you will. Do not carry it for SD.

Indianashooter
August 5, 2009, 01:03 PM
I bought a pt 709 last week. Got to take it shooting yesterday and fired 150 rounds of Remington UMC. No misfires or malfunctions of any kind. The trigger pull is certainly something i'm not used to, but I could still shoot it very accurately. I'm definately happy with the gun so far, and it's virtually invisible in my IWB holster.

Yo Mama
August 5, 2009, 05:58 PM
Was that just from WWB? Did you clean before shooting?

W L Johnson
August 5, 2009, 06:03 PM
Very good pics (macros are difficult). Sadly the extractor looks chipped, and looks to have a hairline crack to me. Send it off, and let us know how they did once you get it back.

I can't tell if that's a crack in the extractor or dirt

Can other people please check your 709s to see if your extractors look like this.
Mine looks something like this (but cleaner) and works 100%

wally
August 5, 2009, 09:57 PM
Looks to me like the extractor broke. Infant mortality failure.

It happens, but how bad would you feel if you'd spent this much money instead:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=288693

--wally.

TimeIsRunninOut
August 13, 2009, 09:25 AM
I am interested to see if there is any information if Taurus makes you send it in for replacement parts?

03Shadowbob
August 13, 2009, 02:18 PM
That extractor does look f'ed/
Good to see Taurus' QC still hasn't changed :rolleyes:
If that is any example then you can bet that their CS department hasn't either and you might as well get ready for a long turn around time.
I got lucky on my PT92 and my old 85 from Taurus butthe other 3 were complete junk and I stopped buying Taurus products.
Good luck and sorry to hear this happened to you.

cmfireman
August 14, 2009, 11:11 PM
It's me again! Finally got to test out the "Slim" after I filed down the extractor a bit and it seems to have worked!!

Upon further inspection of the extractor under a good light and a magnifying glass, (the gun takes down almost identical to a Glock, so I used some info on the web to detail strip it), it seemed to have a pretty good burr on the extractor from the MIM process.

I filed it down a bit and finally got it to test it out today. I'm running low on ammo, but after 21 rounds of Remington FMJ and 28 rounds of WWB, no FTE's at all! Before there was one at least every 4 rounds, sometimes every other shot in the magazine.

I want to run another 200 or so rounds through it before I completely trust it for carry, but I'm excited that I was able to fix it myself and not send it in to Taurus.

DasFriek
August 14, 2009, 11:55 PM
Id call Taurus and order a spare extractor.
Ive read every single possible option for a small 9mm and the 709 comes out on top in every area except in size,its just a tad bigger than the PF-9
I want to buy a more expensive gun but i cant find one that fits my needs and wants better than the 709.

cmfireman
August 15, 2009, 02:07 AM
Same deal here. I looked at the Kel-Tec PF-9,Walther PPS, Kahr PM9, Sig P238, Sig P239 and a few other guns that were much higher end than the 709, but for my purposes, wants, and needs, the Taurus came home with me.

I just feel a bit more comfortable personally with an external safety(709), I didn't want crappy fit and finish (PF-9) I hate the first shot being DA on a DA/SA gun (P239), I hated the Walther magazine release (PPS), I wanted something a little more potent than .380 (P238), and I didn't want a gun so tiny I couldn't fit my hand around (PM9).

swmp9jrm
August 27, 2009, 05:06 PM
+1

I had a PF-9 on order - for three months!! Hadn't even heard of the PT-709 because it was vaporware until shortly before I ordered the PF-9. Found one in my local shop while looking for some other things, and decided it was a viable CC gun. Pulled the trigger, so to speak, today after doing a whole bunch of web investigation - and canceled the PF-9 order. To the range this weekend - hope I got a good one!

cmfireman
August 27, 2009, 06:12 PM
In my opinion, the 709 is a much better gun than the PF-9. The trigger is leaps and bounds smoother and lighter, the SS finish on mine is wearing very well IWB, and it just feels and appears to have much better fit and finish.

I'm 100% happy with mine now that I have the extractor working properly, and I've put another 200 down range with absolutely no problems.

Now I'm just waiting on somebody to start making night sights, a holster that was actually made for the gun, and maybe an extended mag.

makarovnik
August 27, 2009, 06:24 PM
That doesn't look right. Send in the slide via UPS ground and they should take care of it in the next few months.

bearmgc
August 27, 2009, 07:11 PM
Oh well....Taurus. Enough said.

Dr. Bruce
August 29, 2009, 06:14 PM
I received a Taurus 709 Slim 9mm for T & E the other day. Worked with it today a bit. Accurate at 7 yards with 2 inch groups shooting off hand with a two handed grip.

However, I noticed several things:

1. Very very long take up before the trigger breaks.
2. Trigger brake point is quite far back. Although trigger reset is short, in reality what I experienced was that after the gun discharged the recoil and the thinness of the grip (I feel) displaced my strong hand grip and my trigger finger position such that my trigger contact shifted from the mid-tip of the first pad to the first crease of my trigger finger. With repeat not just rapid fire my trigger finger was shifted or pushed further and further in to the left.

Anyone else have a similar experience?

Bruce N. Eimer, Ph.D.
NRA Cert. LE Firearms Instructor
www.DefensiveHandguns.com
www.PersonalDefenseSolutions.net

jpwilly
August 29, 2009, 06:37 PM
That extractor is obviously jacked up. They'll fix it.

I could have gone with a PT 745 but saving .15" didn't matter to me. I went with the PT-145 Mil Pro (3rd Gen) with Stainless Slide 10+1 45acp! For only $315 that pistol has to be one of the best values. My extractor looks much better than yours and it hasn't ever failed me save for a limp wrist experiment where I did get it to fail to return to battery. Otherwise it has feed and functioned with everything thrown at it. I trust it.

m2steven
August 29, 2009, 06:43 PM
Dr.Bruce:

I have the 709 and I didn't experience what you're reporting. My hands really liked the little 709 (and unfortunately it's back at Taurus). I actually really enjoyed the trigger and I was able to fast fire the weapon without losing my finger position. I do have guns that cause this problem however, but not my 709. Probably just differences in hand and finger size.

Chipper57
August 29, 2009, 08:10 PM
new guy here


I just put 200 rds of WWB through my new slim and never had a single malfunction. I like it so much that I just purchased a Crossbreed Supertuck for it, looks like it is going to be my new carry gun.

Country_boy_88
August 29, 2009, 08:21 PM
Fireman i bought the same holster as you and also bought a 709 today. Put around 100 rounds through it. The owner of the store told me to clean it really good beforehand to prevent jams. There was alot of assembly grease when i wiped her out. Worked flawlessly for me.

m2steven
September 3, 2009, 06:03 PM
i just got my taurus 709 back from the factory. it was approx 4 weeks from time i sent it to getting it back. Mine was light striking. They said they adjusted the trigger bar. I'll let y'all know if it's fixed or not.

Storm
September 4, 2009, 08:44 AM
However, it fired 48 of 50 perfectly.

That's nothing to cheer about.

m2steven
September 9, 2009, 10:19 AM
I got my 709 back from Taurus service last week now it shoots like a Glock. it's a great pistol. Again, the problem was quality control at the factory, not a design flaw. I love this little pistol. One of the most fun to shoot i've ever had.

Hokkmike
September 9, 2009, 03:52 PM
Wish I could find a combo coffee shop and gun shop. I could drink coffee, cruise the internet, and clean my guns, all at the same time.

There used to be one in Mount Carmel, PA.

m2steven
September 10, 2009, 04:13 PM
cmfireman: I got two of the holsters you showed. I like them very much and cold recommend them to anyone. Fits the 709 and quite a few of my other guns like a glove.

waymor55
September 10, 2009, 08:02 PM
this galco sto & go for a glock 26 works real well. http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn102/gaymor/SANY1907.jpg

m2steven
September 10, 2009, 10:30 PM
NICE galco!

DasFriek
September 11, 2009, 12:14 AM
However, I noticed several things:
1. Very very long take up before the trigger breaks.
2. Trigger brake point is quite far back. Although trigger reset is short, in reality what I experienced was that after the gun discharged the recoil and the thinness of the grip (I feel) displaced my strong hand grip and my trigger finger position such that my trigger contact shifted from the mid-tip of the first pad to the first crease of my trigger finger. With repeat not just rapid fire my trigger finger was shifted or pushed further and further in to the left.
Anyone else have a similar experience?

Hey Doc,i have the PT745 which i wouldn't be surprised if they aren't identical internally.Mine took a long time to get used to shooting,i still need more practice with it.Mine functions exactly how you posted about yours.
It actually was so odd that when i shot my 1911 side by side i was double tapping the 1911 accidentally as the 745's trigger was messing me up.

Ive not heard of anything to change this,but can only suggest shooting it a lot until you get used to it.I dont feel its a bad trigger action as much as i feel its "weird"

Country_boy_88
September 11, 2009, 12:38 AM
heres mine
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww180/Country_boy_88_2008/SDC10192.jpg

W L Johnson
September 11, 2009, 08:55 AM
I got my 709 back from Taurus service last week now it shoots like a Glock. it's a great pistol. Again, the problem was quality control at the factory, not a design flaw. I love this little pistol. One of the most fun to shoot i've ever had.

Glad to see they took care of it. A lot of people don't stop to think that even if DOA ones were only .01% of the total produced they would still account for 99% of the postings.

icecolb
September 18, 2009, 03:35 AM
I purchased my 709 in July for many of the same reasons posted above- size, shape, 9mm, 8 rounds, feel, external safety, and price. In my opinion, while the PF-9 and PPS are close, there is no other gun right now on the market that is "the total package."

I have an XD-9 sub-compact that I LOVE. I could rant for a long time about how much I love it. I carry it concealed but I've been looking for something slimmer. In comes the 709.

I confess, I'm one of those this as one of those "I'll never waste my money on a Taurus" guys. I won't go into the problems my dad and friends have had with their Taurus handguns, but I think my bias is warranted.

But, when I put it in my hand and looked at the price tag, I figured I couldn't lose.

The extractor broke before I made it through the first magazine. Did I say I'd never buy a Taurus? After an acceptable 5 week turnaround, I got it back today. Taurus claims they "adjusted" the extractor replaced the firing pin.

I understand extractors, especially on sub-compact pistols, are small pieces of metal that are prone to breaking. But if I don't get further than the first magazine, I'm sending it back and then putting it up for sale. I figure it's just a matter of time before Springfield or another legit company comes out with their version.

Then again, if it was a fluke, I can see myself loving this gun. I'll try to post updates.

m2steven
September 18, 2009, 11:38 AM
i'm 2 for 2 on bad tauri. But my 709 now shoots great. And it's fun to shoot.
My Judge literally had loose screws. Parts fell out and off of it after 20 shotgun shells. I expect to get it back in good condition.

I've said this before, but the designs of the guns look good to me. The quality of the Judge is really nice. The "put together" at the factory sucked.

This will kill them if they don't fix it. They probably sell more guns than anyone in the world to regular consumers. If it weren't for their warranty repair service, they'd be screwed.

But, being a patient guy - i'll enjoy my taurus when I get it back. If I were
a real smart fella, I'd have the guns taken down by a professional and tightened up before I shoot them. I shouldn't have to , but for the price I payed, it may be worth it. I know guys who shoot Taurus 357's and other magnums and love them. It's bad management on the assembly lines of the factory. The service is pretty good (for me anyway).

cnicks
November 4, 2009, 12:08 AM
Loved the gun, trigger, accuracy, grip, everything. Three trips to the range, 6 different brands of ammo, failure to extract consistatly. It has been 6 weeks sent I sent it back and no data back from Taurus, even sent examlpes of all the shells. Their web status shows nothing, not even if the gun arrived, guess their too overwhelmed to even enter the data and don't care about customer satisfaction or concerns. I had the seller call and the gun is there. I also send a PT111 back with it for the firing pin staying forward so it would not load the next round. One shot gun, less than 300 rounds. Concealed carry a shrouded hammer revolver now.

KaliS-Pugilist
December 5, 2009, 08:29 PM
are the problems people are having with the blued, stainless, or titanium, slim 709? i've been eye balling these lil guns for about 2 weeks now and thinking to get one. was going to go with a subcompact-xd9 as a super small CC-gun, but i'm just about one over with the slim-709. im thinking to go with the titanium as i think many of the issues are with the blued version, i could be wrong and hopefully someone can answer that.

also, i see on the taurus website that the 709 can also come with an extended magazine. does anyone have that and if so could you post pics to show how much more the extend mag adds to the grip length?

DHaught
December 5, 2009, 09:51 PM
I traded in a gun I had bought for my wife to keep by the bed because it didn't fit her hand and the trigger was too heavy. I got the 709 slim because I had heard many good things about it and though I know many people who say they'd never buy a Taurus, none of them have ever owned one.
The few people I know that do have them seem to like them so I figured I'd give it a try. I've always been skeptical about buying a Taurus as well but it had all the points I was looking for in a gun for her.

I bought it at the local gun store/ range and checked the barrel to make sure it was free of obstrucions and took it straight out back to shoot it without any cleaning or anything. I put a little over a hundred rounds of speer Lawman and Gold dot ammo through it without a single problem. I tested the safety, and both mags, and tried different things to check for malfunctions and it worked with no problems. I even shot some cheap reloads through it and no problems there either.

It was full of grease from the factory and gunked up from shooting so I figured that's as dirty as it'll ever get in it's life and it still worked so it should do the job. It had a few sharp edges on the inside that I knocked down with a file but other than that it looked to be pretty well made. Basically just a glock copy as far as the fire control group goes.

This thing by no means looks like a highly finished firearm but it does work and it was a good deal. I think it's every bit as nice as the Ruger LCP's some of my friends have bought, and easily as nice as many of the Kel Tec's I've seen people carry. Heck a friend of mine bought a brand new SA TRP 1911 that had metal chips and burrs hanging on in the gun and it wouldn't empty an entire magazine without several stovepipes or FTE's and had to go straight back to springfield so even the expensive guns can get out with problems sometimes.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff29/dano73327/Guns/PT709ejector002.jpg]
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff29/dano73327/Guns/PT709ejector003.jpg

bestseller92
December 5, 2009, 10:12 PM
Get thee to a Glockery!

xaml
December 11, 2009, 11:20 AM
Ok, I may have to send my new PT709 back and get it worked on too!

I bought this for CC as well and wanted a real safety if i'm CC a gun. the manufacturer calls for 124 gr cart. I tried 115 and 147 and all will not eject properly. Purchased this for a CC course for my son. However, we both took the course with my old CZ-75 and it feed everything all the time!


I'm considering selling this gun but after reading this conversation on this thread. Maybe I'll wait a few weeks and see if the manufacuter can fix these little issues. I'm very iffy about this manufacturer too, but friend loves his taurus guns and I have heard others love them too. I just remember from the old days taurus P92 were not as good as Barrettas (sp?).

I'm going to give this gun a little more time but feel I'll sell in the end and can't trust it for sd.

Thanks for all the good feed back and I'll look a my gun and take pictures too. My PT709 is a std mat finish taurus gray if you will.

xaml
December 11, 2009, 11:35 AM
Also, I noticed that the take down control or whatever, you call it on this gun is poorly designed too. I requires you to hold the gun in one hand and grab the take down switch on both side of the gun and hold down evenly to disassemble the gun. It is spring feed in the middle of the switch with if you only move it on one side the other side goes up. Make take down hard and almost impossible for a newbie. Seems like it's hard for modern manufactures to impove on the orignial browning designs.

Please provide feedback you have this experience too or not..

Pappy109
December 11, 2009, 02:17 PM
If you want a Glock you have got to buy a Glock!

03Shadowbob
December 11, 2009, 02:55 PM
If you want a Glock you have got to buy a Glock!

Very true. You get what you pay for even though lately I have seen Taurus firearms in the same price range as Glocks and XDs. Most shops around here sell Taurus guns for $500+. How they get that, I have no idea but I wish I could mark up a crap product and make a mint.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 11, 2009, 04:41 PM
You can tell by the circumstance (of well, incomplete extraction) that it's an extractor issue, and not an ammo or break-in issue. I would send it back to Taurus and INSIST that they pay shipping both ways.

Quoheleth
December 11, 2009, 04:42 PM
Wish I could find a combo coffee shop and gun shop. I could drink coffee, cruise the internet, and clean my guns, all at the same time. Hmmmm maybe I should start one.

Mmmm...Hoppe's #9 flavored coffee, anyone? :rolleyes:

Q

jimpro
December 12, 2009, 08:36 PM
Here is a Taurus Pt 709 with the extended magazine..... it gives you two more rounds and place for your little finger, a must have. I sold both my glocks, didn't like anything about them, they were ugly, cheap looking and feeling and no external safety, I much prefer my Taurus guns over Glocks.....

swmp9jrm
December 12, 2009, 08:57 PM
Here is a Taurus Pt 709 with the extended magazine.....

I don't think the 9 round magazines are available yet. Replacement 7 round magazines just became available last month. I like the look of the extended mag - definitely plan to pick some up when they're available.

jimpro
December 12, 2009, 10:50 PM
Very true. You get what you pay for even though lately I have seen Taurus firearms in the same price range as Glocks and XDs. Most shops around here sell Taurus guns for $500+. How they get that, I have no idea but I wish I could mark up a crap product and make a mint.
Why should a Glock cost more then a Taurus? Glock makes one gun! Albiet different calibers. Taurus has an R&D department that is putting out some very innovative products..... and they make Revolvers..BIG revolvers..Berretta style firearms as good or better then the original, they make, single action cowboy guns, rifles, tupperware guns, with safeties with and without external hammers and stainless slides. Excellant 1911s..... and many more that nobody else makes..... That R&D cost money and they still manage to come in and outprice everybody else..... people appreciate innovation, otherwise we'd be watching Black and White TVs..... Mr Glock sold some blinds and then made a gun.... then he ran out of ideas.....

swmp9jrm
December 13, 2009, 10:02 AM
Mr Glock sold some blinds and then made a gun.... then he ran out of ideas.....

Uh-oh! This is likely to get ugly. Where's the popcorn?

sigman
December 13, 2009, 11:53 AM
It's always a " Hit or Miss " with them !
I'ld rather spend more and get a Glock or a Sig..

Why hell,even the Bersa Ultra Compact Pistol sells for $347 and is reputed to be very relable ! People on here post all the time on how much they love them ! :)

W L Johnson
December 13, 2009, 12:05 PM
So far

Taurus
24/7 9mm Stainless - no failures
24/7 Compact 9mm Stainless - no failures
PT-111 Mil Pro 9mm Stainless - no failures
PT-709 Slim Blued - no failure

Bersa
T-380 two tone - no failures
T-380 CC Nickel - no failures
Firestorm 22 - no failures that were not ammo.

YMMV

average_shooter
December 13, 2009, 01:18 PM
Taurus has an R&D department that is putting out some very innovative products..... and they make Revolvers..BIG revolvers..Berretta style firearms as good or better then the original, they make, single action cowboy guns, rifles, tupperware guns, with safeties with and without external hammers and stainless slides. Excellant 1911s..... and many more that nobody else makes..... That R&D cost money and they still manage to come in and outprice everybody else.....

Wait, how does having an R&D department mean squat when all their revolvers are S&W knockoffs, the Beretta knockoffs are very obviously Beretta knockoffs, the cowboy guns are knockoffs of Italian knockoffs, 1911's have been around for 100 years, and their tupperware line is basically Glock with a thumb safety. The only way that kind of "R&D" costs any money is to buy the paper to print out the blueprints on, because it's all already been done.

Glock makes one gun!
At least it was original.

And I'm not trying to take sides here, I just think it's funny when people brand-bash. Really, there haven't been any true innovations in firearms in quite some time.

R.W.Dale
December 13, 2009, 02:44 PM
Why should a Glock cost more then a Taurus? Glock makes one gun! Albiet different calibers.


To steal one from Jeremy Clarkson

He thinks the Porsche styling dpt employs the Laziest people on the planet and I counter that Glocks R&D staff is.

The Evolution of the Glock
Glock 17 introduced 1982
Fingergrooves early 1990's
rail late 1990's
.45 GAP 2003
and that's IT

Ive owned a few and Glock is an outstanding example of how a polymer autoloader should be made ...........30 years ago!

jimpro
December 15, 2009, 10:13 PM
So far

Taurus
24/7 9mm Stainless - no failures
24/7 Compact 9mm Stainless - no failures
PT-111 Mil Pro 9mm Stainless - no failures
PT-709 Slim Blued - no failure

Bersa
T-380 two tone - no failures
T-380 CC Nickel - no failures
Firestorm 22 - no failures that were not ammo.

YMMV
I'm with you WL.....
When I see the typical Taurus bashing stuff, or people who seem to apologize for liking them..I feel a need to step to their defense and share my experience.. I have tried handguns of all brands..... and I got rid of my Glocks because I prefer a gun with an manual safety.... Smith and Wessons are too expensive as are a lot of other brands, I love my Ruger revolvers, but I don't care for their semi-automatics, but I have bought several Taurus pistols, they are fine guns and they manage to do it at a better price then a lot of companies and they have a lifetime warrantee (which I've never needed).... none of my Taurus guns have done anything but perform as well as my S&Ws, my Rugers, my Berrettas and others... But I see people saying well I hear bad things about Taurus, I feel a need to share my experience..... I like Taurus as good as any of the other major brands..(actually better).. I pick on Glock because some people just shout Glock like a mantra or like they are pulling for their favorite football team, and you can get better guns with more options at better prices, that's all I'm saying.... my latest Taurus is Pt 709 stainless and I prefer it over the Kahrs or the Keltec I just plain love it. To me it is the first well made single stack 9mm pocket pistol, that's my 2 cents..

jimpro
December 15, 2009, 10:57 PM
Also, I noticed that the take down control or whatever, you call it on this gun is poorly designed too. I requires you to hold the gun in one hand and grab the take down switch on both side of the gun and hold down evenly to disassemble the gun. It is spring feed in the middle of the switch with if you only move it on one side the other side goes up. Make take down hard and almost impossible for a newbie. Seems like it's hard for modern manufactures to impove on the orignial browning designs.

Please provide feedback you have this experience too or not..
Yeah, I would have preferred they didn't borrow the glock takedown and certainly the silly glock trigger safety.... but with practice you'll get good at it.... but the trigger does have a very short reset and feels great......

03Shadowbob
December 15, 2009, 10:59 PM
Jimpro,
For what it is worth, I have owned 5 Taurus guns through the years and 3 out of 5 had problems. My track record is much different than yours.
I do not necessarily like Glock and definitely not the XD as I like steel and wood but to even remotely think that Taurus is in the same world as Glock or SA or S&W is a pipe dream. Deep down you know it, I know it and most every knows it.
As far as R&D, this kind of R&D?
Yeah, I would have preferred they didn't borrow the glock takedown and certainly the silly glock trigger safety

jimpro
December 15, 2009, 11:04 PM
are the problems people are having with the blued, stainless, or titanium, slim 709? i've been eye balling these lil guns for about 2 weeks now and thinking to get one. was going to go with a subcompact-xd9 as a super small CC-gun, but i'm just about one over with the slim-709. im thinking to go with the titanium as i think many of the issues are with the blued version, i could be wrong and hopefully someone can answer that.

also, i see on the taurus website that the 709 can also come with an extended magazine. does anyone have that and if so could you post pics to show how much more the extend mag adds to the grip length?
http://www.jimhancockproductions.com/pt709extendedmag.jpg

AJChenMPH
December 15, 2009, 11:51 PM
Why argue over Glock vs. Taurus? Do what I did: get one of each! :D

jimpro
December 16, 2009, 03:54 PM
Jimpro,
For what it is worth, I have owned 5 Taurus guns through the years and 3 out of 5 had problems. My track record is much different than yours.
I do not necessarily like Glock and definitely not the XD as I like steel and wood but to even remotely think that Taurus is in the same world as Glock or SA or S&W is a pipe dream. Deep down you know it, I know it and most every knows it.
As far as R&D, this kind of R&D?
Well let me say this, they are in exactly the same league, big manufacturers use the exact same methods to make handguns..... (as a young man I spent 10 years of my life in the mechanical engineering field... I'm a journeyman machinist, from there I spent 2 years working in QC as a mechanical inspector and another 2 working in R&D, so I'm not dreaming..they use CNC machines to make all their guns, they use injection molds for their polymer frames.... they use similar materials, be it stainless, aluminum, or steel, they heat treat to the same standards, none of those mentioned companies use substandard materials, any claim that one is far better then the other is hocus pocus... Taurus, or Smith and Wesson or Berretta, etc...as a matter of fact Taurus bought their PT-92 tooling from Berretta and improved on it.. Taurus had some growing pains and most of the problems are from a few years back... Taurus has come of age, and yes they are everybit the gun that the other big boys are.... they are made overseas where labor is cheaper so you can save some money..... I could list the cheap guns that use substandard materials, cheap castings and such, but my conversation is about Taurus as it compares to other major brands.... I love my Berretta's, my Rugers, I liked the way my Glocks shot, but I wanted a safety, so I traded them. The only gun I found to have problems was my Walther PPK made my S&W.... I took it apart, deburred it and it's great now, but that gun should have never made it past QC......

ugaarguy
December 16, 2009, 06:12 PM
jimpro, Perhaps you'd like to explain that equal quality manufacturing & materials to the gunsmith where I work. He sees 4 or 5 Taurus handguns every year which have cracked frames on the first magazine through the gun. I've looked at the log books, trouble tickets, and, in some cases, the guns themselves before they were sent back to Taurus. Smaller problems are quite frequent, and all problems are most common in their polymer frame pistols. Taurus revolvers, Beretta 92 clones, and 1911s rarely have problems though. If anyone is in doubt, send me a PM, and I can put you in touch with moderators here who can vouch for my creds.

jimpro
December 17, 2009, 02:06 PM
Well ugaarguy, I can try, quality control is a numbers game and, a trial and errors game and a history game..... so lets say the QC department gets in 1000 polymer frames, hot off the mold, they don't do a 100% inspection, that's crazy, injection molds spit out pretty much identical pieces..(some things do require 100% inspection).. but still lets say plastic frames warrant a 10% inspection... those 10% are put through the ringer, if one flunks then the lot is rejected..... (hypothetical of course) also the manufacturer keeps records too.... If they notice a percentage of cracked polymer frames coming back then they rectify the problem, modify the design.... maybe work on the mold, thicken an area, try a different polymer formula... finally the design joins the ranks of their older designs the 1911s, their PT92s, and their revolvers.... newer designs of anything is more prone to problems.... because that process has yet to take place.....

So you mention 5 cracked out of how many? You didnít list any of the other manufacturers problems, but they are there...
they go through the exact same thing....Are you aware of S&Ws sigma problems.... it hurt S&W but they had more history to keep their reputation in shape....When I was researching the problems I was having with my S&W PPK... the stories were widespread of problems... I've heard stories of Glocks cracked frames and blown up Glocks.

You may or may not know the same company use to own Smith & Wesson AND Taurus, ever wonder why the revolvers are so similar? They are almost identical...except for the price.... also recently Taurus is coming up with some great designs there too.... The Raging bull is a monster...

But it's true, like I said, Taurus had some problems in the past, their bad luck is our good luck, why? Because that is in the past... that combined with cheaper labor, you can save money with a Taurus.. and I highly recommend them. My intention is to save people money, put out the rumor fire.... Why spend $550 when $350 gets you a great firearm? With a lifetime warrantee..... just donít let old stories turn you away from Taurus today.....

03Shadowbob
December 17, 2009, 05:58 PM
Jim,
You must have missed my original post in this thread that got you all defensive on an inferior product. I think I said that Taurus firearms in this area are now at the price point of a Glock, M&P, and XD or something along those lines. Why buy a $500 Taurus? Would you buy a $500 Taurus when you can get a much better gun with a much better reputation for quality for $500? Taurus price point of $300 is about right. It's not a HiPoint but definitely not in the same caliber of the other polymer guns. It is a good alternative for those who can not or for some reason just do not want to spend more.
BTW, I am taking bets on how long it will be before Taurus has interchangeable backstraps. Ground breaking R&D I tell ya. :)

jimpro
December 17, 2009, 08:45 PM
Hell Shadowbob, I'm not defensive..I'm enjoying myself.. I don't have stock in Taurus, I just like 'em.... but I like a lot of brands... but just because some body else makes something doesn't mean R&D is not in order, when I worked in R&D alot of our "research" involved tearing apart the competitions product.... shamelessly I might add... and then figuring a way to do it your way.... Gaston Glock didn't invent the semi-automatic or even the tupperware gun for that matter, he's just the one that marketed it correctly..... Taurus was the first to offer the lifetime warrantee and that has been copied as well.....

jimpro
December 17, 2009, 09:03 PM
Hell Shadowbob, I'm not defensive..I'm enjoying myself.. I don't have stock in Taurus, I just like 'em.... but I like a lot of brands... but just because some body else makes something doesn't mean R&D is not in order, when I worked in R&D alot of our "research" involved tearing apart the competitions product.... shamelessly I might add... and then figuring a way to do it our way.... Gaston Glock didn't invent the semi-automatic or even the tupperware gun for that matter, he's just the one that marketed it correctly..... Taurus was the first to offer the lifetime warrantee and that has been copied as well..... My next pistol is going to be a FNP-45 USG http://www.tacticalgunfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=535&Itemid=70

I'm going with it because of the external hammer and 3 more rounds then the Taurus 845 http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=607&category=Pistol&breadcrumbseries=&search=model%20845

ugaarguy
December 17, 2009, 10:41 PM
So you mention 5 cracked out of how many? You didnít list any of the other manufacturers problems, but they are there...
they go through the exact same thing....Are you aware of S&Ws sigma problems.... it hurt S&W but they had more history to keep their reputation in shape....When I was researching the problems I was having with my S&W PPK... the stories were widespread of problems... I've heard stories of Glocks cracked frames and blown up Glocks.
Yes, the first gen Sigmas had major problems, but have been corrected. We sell literally hundreds of Sigmas each year, and we've had one come back - a gun with a broken extractor after shooting a high round count of steel case Wolf ammo. It took the gunsmith less than five minutes to drop in a new extractor, and the gun was fixed. The Glock KBs have almost all been traced to use of reloaded .40 S&W ammo, or use of non-jacketed lead bullets; both of which are expressly forbidden in the Glock manual. In contrast, we're seeing 4 or 5 plastic frame Taurus pistols each year with frames or slides cracking on the first magazine, using newly manufactured ammo.
You may or may not know the same company use to own Smith & Wesson AND Taurus, ever wonder why the revolvers are so similar? They are almost identical...except for the price.... also recently Taurus is coming up with some great designs there too.... The Raging bull is a monster...
I'm well aware of the Bangor-Punta era at S&W. Yeah, the revolvers are almost identical except that no small parts interchange, the grips don't interchange, and Taurus medium & large frame revolvers use coil mainsprings while S&Ws use leaf mainsprings. Taurus revolvers are like reproduction Shelby Cobra chassis with fiberglass bodies, and Chevy 350 engines; they look the same on the outside, but they're completely different on the inside. Unlike their polymer frame pistols, Taurus revolvers do work well though.
But it's true, like I said, Taurus had some problems in the past, their bad luck is our good luck, why? Because that is in the past... that combined with cheaper labor, you can save money with a Taurus.. and I highly recommend them. My intention is to save people money, put out the rumor fire.... Why spend $550 when $350 gets you a great firearm? With a lifetime warrantee..... just donít let old stories turn you away from Taurus today.....
The old stories haven't turned me away - the two cracked frames I looked at with my own two eyes this summer did. Taurus' problems with their metal frame guns are over, but not with their polymer frame guns. Their lifetime warranty is useless to me while the gun is in Miami being fixed & I need it (I also won't buy a lock equipped S&W for the same reason). They also won't send parts to dealers & gunsmiths, so minor issues turn into trips to Miami. They literally wouldn't send my gunsmith a grip screw to replace one a customer had lost: the whole gun had to go to Miami over a friggin grip screw.

jimpro
December 17, 2009, 11:34 PM
Suit yourself ugaarguy...;).. like I said I don't own stock in the company. Sigma is not a bad route, if you don't want an external safety, (I do btw)....the 24/7 does or one could buy a M&P version (I like that gun) but would hope so for over $725..... you could buy 2 Taurus 24/7s for that price and if you were one of the 5 unfortunates a year that cracked a frame you'd have a spare....while they fixed the other for free.....:neener:

jimpro
December 17, 2009, 11:43 PM
One more thing to consider..... if you have a handgun (or any gadget for that matter) that has a lifetime warrantee, and it breaks what are you going to do? Send it back, it's free..... Now if you have a handgun that breaks, that is going to cost you money to fix, what are you going to do? You might through it in the drawer and be done with it..... is it possible that a lifetime warrantee could contribute to a gunshop seeing more guns returned from that brand? Even from years ago...... after all "lifetime of a gun" is a long time....

jimpro
December 18, 2009, 01:20 PM
The old stories haven't turned me away - the two cracked frames I looked at with my own two eyes this summer did. Taurus' problems with their metal frame guns are over, but not with their polymer frame guns. Their lifetime warranty is useless to me while the gun is in Miami being fixed & I need it (I also won't buy a lock equipped S&W for the same reason).
OK..... now I'm being obsessive, but I'm stubborn and I still need facts, reasons and logic behind a conclusion. So based on everything you wrote, the difference comes down to the polymer, because you saw cracked Taurus frames. I did some injection molding research. Well the polymer that Glock uses cost about $3.50 a pound. How much does a frame weigh?
(excluding the enormous cost of an injection mold) gun frames are pennies... literally... This has been discussed on this website before.. http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-117666.html . So if Taurus's frames are not as good it's not about cost..... If you were a company and your reputation was on the line..... you already have $250,000 give or take in mold cost... are you gonna skimp on the polymer? Among injection molders the formula for a good solid gun frame shouldn't be all that tough.... I'm done now.... (applaud)

03Shadowbob
December 18, 2009, 02:00 PM
Jim,
We can see you are a staunch advocate of Taurus firearms and that is your right and there is nothing wrong with it. Taurus makes an OK gun at an OK price. However, it seems to me like you have one eye open and the other one closed.
Just cruise through any firearm board and type in Taurus and problem or issue or whatever and do it with Glock, S&W, SA, etc... I know, I know. It is the same guy going to every forum on the net every couple weeks bashing Taurus. How could I be so naive?
I prefer to have better odds with a better firearm and not have to try out the "lifetime guarantee." It just might malfunction at the wrong time, though unlikely.

jimpro
December 18, 2009, 02:23 PM
You're right shadowbob, one guy can do a lot of damage to a company now that we all have the power of the press, so when I see meritless attacks on a good company and somebody can save themselves some money, I pipe in... what I like about Taurus is a good gun at a good price, when you consider how cheap a plastic frame is and the consistancy of CNC machining and stainless is stainless... Glock's profit margins are too high..as are a lot of other companies... they could sell their guns for the same price that Taurus does, or Ruger.... I appreciate not being gauged by a company..and nothing is better for all of us as consumers then some good ole fashion competition... and I show my appreciation by purchasing their product, however, some people out see a lower price tag and think lesser quality..... they are mistaken and their wallet takes a hit it doesn't need to. Sorry, I promised I was through..;)
One more thing of interest... my comments supporting Taurus, are already on the 1st and second page of google... what does that tell you about bad press.....? Thanks for you comment...

MikePaiN
December 18, 2009, 04:21 PM
I bought a PT709 Slim locally for a really good price unfired...the damn thing shot and ran well. Until I bought a box of WWB... It had about a 50% FTE rate with these 115g 9mm rounds. After that I just couldn't feel comfortable with it as a CCW. So I sold it and bought a NIB Kahr CW9.

DHaught
December 18, 2009, 04:57 PM
Wouldn't it have just made more sense to not put WWB in it if it didn't cycle it properly? Sounds like it worked good with other ammo.

DHaught
December 18, 2009, 05:07 PM
Jim,
We can see you are a staunch advocate of Taurus firearms and that is your right and there is nothing wrong with it. Taurus makes an OK gun at an OK price. However, it seems to me like you have one eye open and the other one closed.
Just cruise through any firearm board and type in Taurus and problem or issue or whatever and do it with Glock, S&W, SA, etc... I know, I know. It is the same guy going to every forum on the net every couple weeks bashing Taurus. How could I be so naive?
I prefer to have better odds with a better firearm and not have to try out the "lifetime guarantee." It just might malfunction at the wrong time, though unlikely.
I understand your point but it's certainly not restricted to taurus brand guns having problems. A friend of mine paid 1400 for a SA TRP that couldn't get through a magazine without stovepipes or FTE's. He picked it up, took it to the range, and sent it back the next day. I know of several people that had to send SA's back from day one because of malfunctions. Kimbers are another 1k plus gun that you can find tons of info on forums about malfunctions. My colt 1911 is machined and assembled like a piece of cheap crap compared to the others but has never malfunctioned until I got it really dirty shooting reloads and was one hand limp wristing it to see if it would stall. It FTB'd but I tightened up my grip and it didn't do it again.
I hear a lot of people bash Taurus but I bought a 709 slim and it runs fine, and I have several friends that have different Taurus guns that have never had any problems. As a matter of fact the only people I know that bash them have never owned one. I'm not saying their great guns but the one I have works better than my friends 1400 dollar 1911 did out of the box so you can get a lemon no matter what you buy.

jimpro
December 18, 2009, 05:28 PM
Thankyou, I've bought 6 Taurus guns, two as gifts, one for my son, one for my ex-wife... NEVER had a problem with any of them, I had problems with a S&W PPK, fixed it myself, love it, I had a pawl break on a Ruger vaquero fixed myself, love it, But Never a problem with my Taurus guns, and I have never paid more then $350 for most, I paid $400 for my PT100.... LOVE 'EM, The only gun I've had that was obviously a cheap casting and sheet metal parts was a Bersa .380cc, a wire necessary for the double action to work was forever falling off, and the takedown lever just broke in my hand (little tiny casting)... but a lot folks swear by theirs, so maybe I got a lemon.

03Shadowbob
December 18, 2009, 06:37 PM
I agree that things happen to the high end guns. No doubt about it. I am not saying that things don't. I am saying that there is no way a Taurus is in the same league as a Glock SA or S&W polymer gun.
If the prices were all equal would you still buy a Taurus or would you buy a Glock or a XD or M&P?
I don't think I bash taurus really but I will advise people to get a better gun. My track record is about 40% good, 60% bad with taurus (5 guns). Why did I keep going back to Taurus? Mostly because I thought "It was only a fluke to get a bad gun". And partly because I couldn't afford a better gun at the time.
Now the PT92, I will give it all the praises in the world. Over 10,000 rounds with zero failures.

Country_boy_88
January 8, 2010, 01:35 PM
anyone got a word on when we can order extended magazines?

jglcolosprgs
January 8, 2010, 01:59 PM
I bought a PT709 Slim locally for a really good price unfired...the damn thing shot and ran well. Until I bought a box of WWB... It had about a 50% FTE rate with these 115g 9mm rounds. After that I just couldn't feel comfortable with it as a CCW. So I sold it and bought a NIB Kahr CW9.
__________________
Let the Journey begin.
-Windwalker

Yep, I understand that.... I bought a car once and it ran out of gas..... sold that thing as soon as I could get more gas in it.

:banghead:

W L Johnson
January 8, 2010, 02:13 PM
Yep, I understand that.... I bought a car once and it ran out of gas..... sold that thing as soon as I could get more gas in it

I thought the guy's statement a little odd myself. Bait maybe?

fatcpa
January 8, 2010, 04:11 PM
I've owned my Taurus 709 for a couple of months now and put over 500 rounds through it without a single problem. All of those rounds were fired in basically two sessions of 250+ rounds each, trying to judge the trustworthiness of the little pistol. I shot CCI Blazer, MagTech, UMC, and Lawman (all 115 gr). I cleaned the gun before each session, but not during. I enjoy shooting the gun. In the past I have owned a Taurus 24/7 9mm, a Taurus PT111, and a Taurus Ultra Lite 38 Special (snubbie). All have been very reliable. The only problem I have had was a couple of stovepipes with the PT111 when I limp-wristed it. I have an arthritic wrist and tend to do that sometime. I also own an SA XD45 (4"), a Glock 19, and just purchased a Taurus 1911. I am really happy with each for different reasons. This includes the 709. I guess I'm a little different than most here because I like Glocks, I like Springfields, but I also like the Taurus guns.

fatcpa
January 8, 2010, 04:25 PM
Forgot one thing about the 709. I had a Don Hume leather holster (IWB) for the PT111 than was a little snug for that gun. Sold the PT111 but the holster fits the 709 like it was made for it.

KenBaker
January 10, 2010, 07:35 PM
Best carry for Taurus PT709 is the Glock Sport Combat holster from topglock.com
$15

WIGunCollector
March 26, 2010, 08:09 PM
The Ace Case IWB and the Tuckable version for the Sigma sized .380 autos fits like a glove. I have also tried the ClipDraw (glad the gun has a manual safety and glock style trigger safety). The clipdraw is very nice and 0 problems with reliabilty of the firearm with the Clipdraw in place.

Also, my 709 fires any type of ammo without problems, EXCEPT for WWB 115 gr FMJ. I have shot Hornady Critical Defense 115 gr, Speer Lawman in 115 and 147 gr, Remington UMC 115 gr FMJ, and Federal Hydrashoks in 137 gr. I have spoken with Taurus and just to relay some info. They say that this firearm will fire +P rated ammunition as long as it is SAAMI rated.

Browns Fan
March 27, 2010, 12:22 PM
Quote:
"Wish I could find a combo coffee shop and gun shop. I could drink coffee, cruise the internet, and clean my guns, all at the same time. Hmmmm maybe I should start one. "

I like the way you think!

Is the extractor MIM? If I buy one, you can bet that I will examine the extractor closely! Thanks for the heads up!

los
March 27, 2010, 12:48 PM
I acquired my 709 about 2 months ago. It replaces a G26 as my primary carry piece. The G26 was reliable and accurate but a bit too chunky for my body frame. I always had to dress around it for proper concealment.

My 709 has been extremely reliable and will eat anything it's fed. And let me tell ya', this little sumbish has a robust appetite. Recoil is very manageable even when rapid firing +P loads. Accuracy is exceptional at CQB distances.

Then you realize the size of the 709 Slim, or lack thereof. The Slide measures a width of .915 at the front and rear sight,.. and a little wider [.950] at the ejection port. The grip is .885 at the front and rear strap and buldges to .905 in the center. The girth of this weapon never exceeds one (1) inch.

She definitely a keeper.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/los3088/TTGunleatherAlligatorRig1-20.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/los3088/TTGunleatherAlligatorRig025-20.jpg

WIGunCollector
March 27, 2010, 03:17 PM
I believe the extractor is MIM. I have also seen some of the photos posted questioning if their extractor is "going to shatter when fired". I looked at 3 different 709's at different gun shops and the extractor's are all "oddly shaped" compared to what you would expect to see an extractor resembling. The small "bur" on them is actually the way they are made. Almost 300 rounds now and it is a great handgun.

WIGunCollector
March 27, 2010, 03:21 PM
LOS, who made the holster and mag pouch? Looks like a great piece. Illegal to carry concealed in Wisconsin unless law enforcement. Hopefully someday. But for now I wait and practice at the range. :)

NMGonzo
March 27, 2010, 03:33 PM
Quote:
"Wish I could find a combo coffee shop and gun shop. I could drink coffee, cruise the internet, and clean my guns, all at the same time. Hmmmm maybe I should start one. "

I like the way you think!

Is the extractor MIM? If I buy one, you can bet that I will examine the extractor closely! Thanks for the heads up!
Next to a motorcycle shop ... drop for service too!

los
March 27, 2010, 03:49 PM
... LOS, who made the holster and mag pouch? Looks like a great piece. Illegal to carry concealed in Wisconsin unless law enforcement. Hopefully someday. But for now I wait and practice at the range.

The rig was made by TT Gunleather. Email Tim Thurner, he'll take good care of you.

harmon rabb
March 27, 2010, 03:57 PM
To steal one from Jeremy Clarkson

He thinks the Porsche styling dpt employs the Laziest people on the planet and I counter that Glocks R&D staff is.

The Evolution of the Glock
Glock 17 introduced 1982
Fingergrooves early 1990's
rail late 1990's
.45 GAP 2003
and that's IT

Ive owned a few and Glock is an outstanding example of how a polymer autoloader should be made ...........30 years ago!

why mess with success? they got it right.

or would you tell the 1911 guys they're daft for carrying / shooting a 100 year old design?

guns aren't microchips. once a design is pretty much perfected, there isn't much else to do with it.

SwampWolf
March 27, 2010, 04:59 PM
I got my 709 back from Taurus service last week now it shoots like a Glock.

Well, that's too bad. I guess about all you can do is send it back to Taurus and hope they get it right next time. :D

Bushhog57
March 28, 2010, 06:38 PM
Does anyone know where extended mags for the 709 can be bought ? All I can find is the 7 rounders . If so pls drop me a line.

los
March 28, 2010, 06:54 PM
...1 Does anyone know where extended mags for the 709 can be bought ? All I can find is the 7 rounders . If so pls drop me a line.

They're not available yet. "Maybe" in a few more months. This according to Taurus CS dept.

Retired Consultant
March 28, 2010, 10:19 PM
I purchased a PT709 in January and had FTE (Extraction & ejection) problems from the get go. Same as photos earlier in this thread. Returned pistol to Taurus and got it back about 5 weeks later. There was some evidence it was returned to Brazil(a sticker on the box said "RBR Brazil Repair). They advised they had run 49 rounds of Fiocchi ammo through it with no problems. Finally gotr to try shooting it again. Fiocchi ran flawlessly. WWB initially has FTE problem, but after about 100 more rounds found no problems with WWB or about 6 other brands of ammo including my own reloads with LRN bullets. Ran both 115 gr and 124 gr ammo. I'm beginning to think the gun (or at least mine) just needs a couple of hundred rounds through it before it is broken in. I tried WWB in very rapid fire at close of range session with no problems.

TurboQueef
April 17, 2010, 08:45 PM
I purchased a PT709 a couple months ago... wish I had read all of the posts regarding jams...

Mine jamed (stovepipe) from the get go... first clip produced several jams :banghead:

Through internet research, I found several folks having same problem... all boiling down to the extractor. I ended up oiling the daylights out of the extractor (where it recesses into the slide)... this allows me to fire several rounds (100) with no problems... but after a week of carry ... it jams after first round.

I have tried several different ammo's all produce same result.

I am considering sending the gun back for repair.. but first I thought I would make a post to see if anyone found any other options that have fixed this problem.

Thanks,

Jeff B

Robot Chicken
April 23, 2010, 05:58 PM
Here is a link to pics of new and old extractors Taurus is using.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/102568-i-fixed-my-709-slims-extractor-issue.html
I am trying to get Taurus to send me a new one free of charge. If not I might buy one and rework the old one as a spare. $14 + $4 for shipping I think is less than shipping the whole gun back

TurboQueef
April 23, 2010, 07:40 PM
Here is a link to pics of new and old extractors Taurus is using.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/102568-i-fixed-my-709-slims-extractor-issue.html
I am trying to get Taurus to send me a new one free of charge. If not I might buy one and rework the old one as a spare. $14 + $4 for shipping I think is less than shipping the whole gun back

Good info... thank you... I ended up having the place I purchased it send the gun back for repair.... glad to see they found the problem and have applied design changes to fix it.

NorseViking
May 9, 2010, 08:14 PM
Here is a Taurus Pt 709 with the extended magazine..... it gives you two more rounds and place for your little finger, a must have. I sold both my glocks, didn't like anything about them, they were ugly, cheap looking and feeling and no external safety, I much prefer my Taurus guns over Glocks.....
Can you please advise where you purchased the extend magazine for your PT 709? From your picture, it appears it came from Taurus-they say they are not going to make one.

Thank you.

klbooth380
January 27, 2011, 09:24 PM
So agnostically, I have a Sig 226 elite, in .40, Glock 23 in .40, love 'em both, but got tired of not carrying either because they're bulky and harder to conceal...

Went to the shop to look at a PF9, fit and finish are not terms that should ever be used with that firearm in mind, got a Taurus 709 for $50 more than the PF9.

300+ rounds in, one dud / FTF, truly believe it was the ammo at this point.

However, Jimpro - really? Looks a lot like Photoshop, and I can't find anywhere that ever sold a 9+1 mag, or an extended base plate. I can't even find a spare same size mag, any help would be more than appreciated.

NoobCannon
January 27, 2011, 11:47 PM
I have had similar problems with my PT840. Different gun, and my extractor burr was so that it would run brass shavings into my firing pin channel, producing a brake-like effect. It would FTF and stay that way until I disassembled it and cleared the channel. It was to the point where I was going to send it to Taurus, but I got stubborn and kept shooting it. It seems that the more rounds I run through it the less the problem is.

I went from 3 rounds between FTF, to 5, to 10, to a full mag, and getting better each time. Seems that the burr is wearing itself down with use.

swmp9jrm
January 28, 2011, 04:01 PM
However, Jimpro - really? Looks a lot like Photoshop, and I can't find anywhere that ever sold a 9+1 mag, or an extended base plate. I can't even find a spare same size mag, any help would be more than appreciated.

I think the picture posted by Jimpro was one from the Taurus website right after the 709 was released. I'm pretty sure the extended mag never existed, but it appears that the Gen2 version of the 709 and 740 may have an extended mag option. We'll see.

709 magazines available here: PT-709 Magazines at Midway USA (http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?pageNum=1&tabId=4&categoryId=20803&categoryString=655***687***11341***10285***)

Back-at-it
February 27, 2011, 11:29 AM
I bought one at a gun show in FL and from the start it FTE and I could not keep it on paper at 12 yards. I had a Sheriff range master and the local range master shoot it and they had the same issues. Three calls later it was off to Taurus for repair. It took three weeks and now it eats everything and shoots straight. All the service ticket said was "Replaced". It did not say what was replaced.

PT709
July 25, 2011, 07:04 PM
I just recently bought the PT709 slim as well. I took it shooting yesterday and had no failures of any kind. Before going to the range I had cleaned out the gunk from the factory shipping and then got it ready for the range.

I used Sellier & Bellot FMJ 115gr as well as Hornaday Critical Defense rounds. Total I shot 130+ and ended up with pretty good groupings. The trigger is going to take some getting used to but I only live about a mile from the range so I plan to be a frequent visitor.

I hope things work out with your 709 cause it really is a nice pistol.

Giterboosted
July 27, 2011, 04:41 AM
I'm sure with five pages of replies it's already been said, but what with just reading the first page I went directly to my 709 and looked and my extractor is the exact same, and I have yet to have ANY type of issue out of it

ccsniper
July 27, 2011, 05:47 AM
ZOMBIE THREAD!!! sheesh guys this thread is old look at the dates

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