Varmint Rifles (AR Variants)


PDA






LoneRider
August 5, 2009, 08:19 AM
I've seen some varmint rifles (.223/.308) and have considered buying one or the other for my DMR project (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=443889&highlight=Semiautomatic+DMR).

Has anyone used these varmint ARs at all and if so how would you rate them for field use? Also how easy is it to install back up iron sights on the weapons. I would assume a varmint rifle is fairly accurate and solid for field conditions but I'm not a fan of the fact that there are no BUIS on the weapons.

If you enjoyed reading about "Varmint Rifles (AR Variants)" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
jpcolt76
August 5, 2009, 08:53 AM
I have a DPMS with a 20in barrel and a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5x14 on it that I just sighted in last week. It took about 6 shots and the last 2 were touching and 1in high at 100 yds so I stopped and moved on to the next rifle. The DPMS is a good buy with one glaring but easily fixed fault, the trigger. I put a RRA 2St NM in it and it shooting with Crisco! It is noticable heavier than my Armalite A3 rifle. I have an Armalite AR-10 with a Nikon Buckmaster 4x12 that puts 3 shots under an inch. AR's have great inherent accuracy. I have a stock BM dissipator w/ a 2x7 scope that will put 3 shots in an inch at 100yds. Dont limit yourself to just varmint rifles and enjoy the formulation of your DMR package, I know I do.

Dravur
August 5, 2009, 09:52 AM
I have a Bushmaster Varminter with the 24" fluted barrell. It comes with a great trigger and I have put on a Magpul sniper stock and a Burris Black Diamond scope. I love it.

and a pic. The second one down is the one I modified. I replaced the scope and the stock.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3059/2305280593_98c4fe1168.jpg

also, the top one does not have the light...I didnt like it... and I put an Eotech 512 on it. The bottom one I gave to my dad for his birthday. The third one is around here somewhere. I think....

redneck2
August 5, 2009, 10:09 AM
I also have a Bushie Varminter. 6.5x20x40 VX III scope. Most accurate gun I own, including a Win 70, five 700 REmingtons, etc.

IMO, lose the irons. Combat or varmints, pick one and go with it.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Indianaoutdoorsman/Gunpix013.jpg

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 5, 2009, 10:16 AM
Absolutely no need for a BUIS on this type of rifle.

Interesting calibers: .223 rem & .204 Ruger; .243 Win in AR10 type.

Capable of excellent accuracy with floated bull barrel. 22"-24" bbl will max out velocity.

Good for targets & vermin.

LoneRider
August 5, 2009, 12:35 PM
Absolutely no need for a BUIS on this type of rifle.

I disagree. I tend to like having BUIS on a rifle just in case damage to the optics occurs. The rifle is intended to be both a target weapon (possibly even 3-Gun type) as well as a SHTF type of rifle.

Dont limit yourself to just varmint rifles and enjoy the formulation of your DMR package, I know I do.

Believe me, I'm not. I'm checking all options available, varmint type rifles, out of the box ARs, and if I find a good deal at a couple local gun shops where I live I might buy my AR from there and modify it.

jpcolt76
August 5, 2009, 03:02 PM
An Armalite A4 which has no front sight would be a great stating place. Seem like other's A4's still have the tall front sight and that does interfere with the scope point of view.

HardShell
August 5, 2009, 04:50 PM
I disagree. I tend to like having BUIS on a rifle just in case damage to the optics occurs. The rifle is intended to be both a target weapon (possibly even 3-Gun type) as well as a SHTF type of rifle...

WADR then, it doesn't sound like you want a true "varmint" variation of the AR as they are poorly suited to (and difficult to adapt to) such versatile use. (Of course, I'm biased -- when I think of a varmint AR I think of a scope-only 24" bull bll AR...)

Sounds like you'd be better served by a well-made full size 20" service rifle, but set up for better accuracy than a std. svc. rifle (FF, good bbl, folding or QD bipod, etc.).

IOW, it is easier for a "SHTF" AR to be tweaked for varmint-capable accuracy than for a true "varmint" AR to be outfitted for "SHTF" and/or 3-gun comps.

JMHO.

rtn
August 5, 2009, 10:22 PM
White Oak makes a very nice varmint upper.

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/

LoneRider
August 6, 2009, 05:05 AM
WADR then, it doesn't sound like you want a true "varmint" variation of the AR as they are poorly suited to (and difficult to adapt to) such versatile use. (Of course, I'm biased -- when I think of a varmint AR I think of a scope-only 24" bull bll AR...)

I would probably go for a 20" barrel varminter I'd seen at Gander Mountain and bolt back up iron sights (both fold-up variety) onto the weapon and put the LaRue scope mounts with a good Nikon variable power telescopic sight or an ACOG onto the flattop rail (I've seen AR Varminters that have them).

I'm basically exploring all my options for finding/tweaking an AR without breaking my budget.

SpeedAKL
August 6, 2009, 10:32 AM
IF you want great accuracy and need something to mount a BUIS on, try something like this:
http://www.jprifles.com/display.php?img=CTR02H2ws
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=100

BUGUDY
August 6, 2009, 10:51 AM
I have a 24" fluted Doublestar 5.56 w/ 4x14 Burris Fullfield scope. This is a heavy gun for longer range shooting, I can't see putting a BUIS on it. As far as shooting, 3 head shots on groundhogs the last time out at an average of 200 yds. I am very happy with this rifle which I think of as a budget rifle kit from J&T. It does have a Bill Springfield trigger job which helped accuracy alot.

HardShell
August 6, 2009, 05:24 PM
... I'm basically exploring all my options for finding/tweaking an AR without breaking my budget.

I understand completely... just don't be surprised to wind up withmultiple ARs for multiple purposes. ;)

I have 3 dozen AR variants in more than a half-dozen different chamberings and I haven't quite found that "do it all" one yet. :o

hub
August 7, 2009, 02:13 AM
Here is my ar varmint rifle. It's a dpms lo pro classic with a swfa ss 10x. I also installed a free float tube and a hogue hand grip. I will having Bill Springfield do a trigger job pretty soon. The horrible factory trigger and lack of free float tube was the only complaints I've ever had with this rifle.

I was looking for a fairly cheap and accurate bull barreled ar and had my eye on some 20in - 24in dpms but after handling them to me they just felt way to front heavy for me. If this was a target only gun shot prone or bench only I think it would be ok but for any hunting it just felt like too much. The 16in bull balances perfectly at the mag well and comes in at 7.9lbs empty before the scope. I may be wrong but I think the standard m16 is 7.9lb empty also just for a comparison. I know some talk about a little loss in velocity with the 16in but it's not very noticeable and it's really an outstanding shooter even with the gritty, heavy, full of creep factory trigger.

If I was to do it again I would probably build my own using a white oak armament varmint barrel, but honestly the dpms shoots better than I can.

LoneRider
August 7, 2009, 04:44 AM
I understand completely... just don't be surprised to wind up withmultiple ARs for multiple purposes.

I have 3 dozen AR variants in more than a half-dozen different chamberings and I haven't quite found that "do it all" one yet.

In this case I'm trying to build a DMR type rifle that still has the iron sights needed if the scope eats it for whatever happens with a maximum engagement range of about 400-600meters that is an AR platform with the flattop receiver due to familiarity with said AR platform. The caliber will be of a commonly available type (.223 or .308 or 5.56mm or 7.62x51mm).

I found a couple reasonably priced Varminter ARs (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/Model_R-15_VTR.asp) (discovered to be Remington R-15s one in .223 the other in .30 cal Remington) at a local Gander Mountain (Orlando, FL) when I was on R&R from Iraq and briefly thought this could be a good economy DMR, as its accurate and sturdy for field use (I figure if it's of a hunting pedegree then field ruggedness should be implied by design). What made me wary though was its lack of iron sights and I thought about putting folding iron sights (both front and rear sights), like on the USMC SAM-R.

If I do so would it be best to go to a professional gunsmith to have it done instead of installing them myself (I've never done sight installment on a weapon) so I don't goober up the installation?

IOW, it is easier for a "SHTF" AR to be tweaked for varmint-capable accuracy than for a true "varmint" AR to be outfitted for "SHTF" and/or 3-gun comps.

Forgive the dumb rookie question, but could you elaborate?

Also I found this website for plenty of good back up iron sights: Has Anyone Bought/Used Anything From Here? (http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/index.php?cPath=42&main_page=index)

Interesting calibers: .223 rem & .204 Ruger; .243 Win in AR10 type.

Doctor Tad Hussein Winslow, I've run across a .30 caliber Remington AR (specifically designed .30 cal Remington Cartridge) which was a tempting buy, but it failed what I call the Wal Mart Test (i.e. how readily available is that sort of round anywhere in the country).

JDGray
August 7, 2009, 06:38 AM
Any 20" heavy barreld AR with a QR scope base, flip up irons would do:)

My RRA Predator Pursuit, Less than MOA average
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b278/JDG357/IMG_3155.jpg

LoneRider
August 7, 2009, 06:43 AM
When'd you get your RRA? I've heard Rock River was backed up on orders for a long while.

JDGray
August 7, 2009, 04:15 PM
When'd you get your RRA?

I pieced it together last winter. Traded for a RRA middy, last summer, and sold the upper to buy the Varmint upper. Its all RRA, just took awhile to get it the way I wanted it.:)

R.W.Dale
August 7, 2009, 04:20 PM
Doctor Tad Hussein Winslow, I've run across a .30 caliber Remington AR (specifically designed .30 cal Remington Cartridge) which was a tempting buy, but it failed what I call the Wal Mart Test (i.e. how readily available is that sort of round anywhere in the country).
__________________

Well in all fairness the 30RAR is a brand new cartridge that as far as I know hasn't hit anyone's shelves just yet.

LoneRider
August 7, 2009, 04:30 PM
Well in all fairness the 30RAR is a brand new cartridge that as far as I know hasn't hit anyone's shelves just yet.

True, but a round designed specifically for one type of rifle is not liable to be an easy to find round sold as ubiquitously as say .223 or .243 caliber.

HardShell
August 7, 2009, 04:42 PM
Quote:
IOW, it is easier for a "SHTF" AR to be tweaked for varmint-capable accuracy than for a true "varmint" AR to be outfitted for "SHTF" and/or 3-gun comps.


Forgive the dumb rookie question, but could you elaborate?



Neither dumb nor rookie IMO. ;)

When I think of a varmint AR I think of my first one...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/HardShell/RWB%20-%20ARs/DPMS24-inchvarmintrig-small.jpg

... long before the 20" models that are out there, let alone the oddball one I'm building up right now with a long-discontinued DPMS 16" SuperBull upper.

Fixed FSB and railed blocks are available for the std. bull bbls (like my 24" above) but I've shot other similar rifles and just don't like them with the irons -- personal bias.

I also don't care much for railed blocks with QD front sights, regardless of configuration. Personal preference -- I believe a FS should be as stable as possible if it will be used at all, so I'd take a fixed flip-up over a QD myself. YMMV.

What I was saying (and should have been clearer about :o) is that IMHO one can take a well-built 20" rifle (which, BTW, is capable of taking varmints as it is within reason) and equip it to be an effective varmint gun easier than one can take a 24" bull bbl gun like muine and make it appropriate for SHTF or 3-gun.

I would be less dogmatic about a 20" varminter like the RRA someone posted above -- it could be equipped rather easily for crossover use (although I'd still prefer a fixed FS to a detachable one, personally).

Hope that clears it up some -- a lot of the confusion comes from the image that immediately comes to my own mind when I hear AR varmint gun (i.e., 24" bull bbl, no irons, bipod).

LoneRider
August 7, 2009, 04:52 PM
It did, personally I think I'm gonna go with the Remington R15 VTR (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/Model_R-15_VTR.asp)with a 22" barrel in .223 with the following modifications as a great entry-level first DMR AR. It's already got the accuracy I'm looking for, the flattop rails, economically priced (for an AR), and it's reasonably field sturdy.

Another model I've considered is the Remington R25 VTR (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/Model_R-25.asp) in either .243 or .308 for greater stopping power and longer range of maximum engagement.

- Fold up BUIS (http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/index.php?cPath=42&main_page=index) (I've got a few models lined up).
- LaRue telescopic sight mounts with either a Nikon variable power 1.5-6x42mm scope or just a Trijicon ACOG.

Big44mag
August 7, 2009, 05:13 PM
HardShell, is that the Choate E2 stock in your pic? If so, what buttplate do you have on it?

HardShell
August 7, 2009, 05:18 PM
HardShell, is that the Choate E2 stock in your pic? If so, what buttplate do you have on it?

I think DPMS called it the "E3 Sniper" or some such silliness way back when I bought it, but I'm sure Choate made it for them -- it came with that thick rubber buttpad on it originaly.

Big44mag
August 7, 2009, 05:29 PM
Thank you sir, much appreciated.

M&PVolk
August 8, 2009, 12:52 AM
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I hunt varmints with my Bushmaster M4 16". I put a Nikon BDC scope on it and can swap it out for the standard sights at any time. I would say just about anything within 300 yards is perfectly doable.

sscoyote
August 8, 2009, 01:39 AM
Just took mine out last week for a few prairie dogs. My buddy's were shooting mostly as they're from out of town, but i pulled mine out at the end and 1 ofthe guys made a 530-yd. shot in about 5 shots, in some serious mirage, that wiped out the 500-yd. dogs sometimes. It's an ISSI 223AI, and right now is shooting the 69 Sierra at 3130. I have a V16 Weaver on top with a T. K. Lee reticle that looks like this--
--.--.--.
-----.
-----.
-----.

Dots range from 3/8ths to 1/8th, 3 MOA apart (4MOA wind). Shot was made holding 2 minutes wind and 10 MOA vertical.

HardShell
August 8, 2009, 11:22 AM
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I hunt varmints with my Bushmaster M4 16"...

No flame here. Most ARs are more accurate than they have any right to be, and I said in one of my earlier posts that a basic AR was capable of varmint duty within reason. :)

LoneRider
August 9, 2009, 06:35 AM
Anyone ever have much experience with the Remington R-15/R-25 varminters?

something vague
August 9, 2009, 10:55 AM
I've never had the pleasure to shoot either of Remingtons R-15's/R-25's but my shop has got a few in stock. I was extremely dissapointed with the camo paint job on these guns. The paint flakes off leaving like a white primer visible once the camo falls off. Mind you these things are brand new just taken out of the box and white spots are showing all over this thing. I would hate to see what this thing would look like after a couple of months of use.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 9, 2009, 12:40 PM
Well, if you really DO want to make a combo target/varmint rifle with a BUIS / backup capability for 'fighting', rather than buying two rifles (regardless of whether you go with 20, 22, 24" etc.), then obviously you're looking at going with QUALITY quick-detach mounts for your varminting optic, since you cannot co-witness with the BUIS. Pro-Mag makes a pretty decent QD ring set for under $100.

LoneRider
August 9, 2009, 12:50 PM
Thanks Doctor. Pro-Mag sounds like a decent buy adaptable with flattop rail I assume? The R15/R25 rifles have the Picatinny rail system.

I've never had the pleasure to shoot either of Remingtons R-15's/R-25's but my shop has got a few in stock. I was extremely dissapointed with the camo paint job on these guns. The paint flakes off leaving like a white primer visible once the camo falls off. Mind you these things are brand new just taken out of the box and white spots are showing all over this thing. I would hate to see what this thing would look like after a couple of months of use.

If that does become a problem I'm sure I can repaint the weapon or pay someone who knows what they're doing to do so.

LoneRider
August 9, 2009, 12:52 PM
Thanks Doctor. Pro-Mag sounds like a decent buy adaptable with flattop rail I assume? The R15/R25 rifles have the Picatinny rail system.

I've never had the pleasure to shoot either of Remingtons R-15's/R-25's but my shop has got a few in stock. I was extremely dissapointed with the camo paint job on these guns. The paint flakes off leaving like a white primer visible once the camo falls off. Mind you these things are brand new just taken out of the box and white spots are showing all over this thing. I would hate to see what this thing would look like after a couple of months of use.

If that does become a problem I'm sure I can repaint the weapon or pay someone who knows what they're doing to do so.

If you enjoyed reading about "Varmint Rifles (AR Variants)" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!