CETME, PTR-91, G3 clones


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LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 5, 2009, 06:33 PM
Help me out here, how much do they generally cost?
How reliable are they?
Is mags and ammo cheap?

Thanks, LJ-MF-B

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otrman
August 5, 2009, 08:47 PM
Cetme's can be hit or miss on quality, some are good some are crap. Cetme made two styles of receivers, one is stamped steel the other is cast stainless steel. The latter is usually the better rifle but there is no guarantee. Cost is usually in the 450-700 range. If decide to go the Cetme route do some research so you know what issues to look for and avoid. I have a Cetme with the cast receiver and other than a trigger job I have about 3000 rds thru it with no issues, it holds 2 1/2 in. groups with irons and surplus ammo.

PTR-91 have better QC and have less issues when new. Last one I looked at was selling for 1300.00, but that was at the height of the panic buying, price may have come down some. Haven't seen or heard anything bad about these as of yet.

Mags are dirt cheap, 3.00 to 5.00 each.

308 ammo is expensive

FFMedic
August 5, 2009, 09:00 PM
I have an almost new PTR-91 with some goodies for sale if you are interested.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=458862

FFMedic

SlamFire1
August 5, 2009, 09:12 PM
I purchased a PTR91 and it is a well built rifle. The barrel is a Thompson Center, a better barrel than any put on a service rifle. I got to compare it against a HK machine gun, and the workmanship of the PTR is not inferior.

I put on a rear sight with a 100 yard aperature (pictured). , I installed a port buffer (pictured) This port buffer reduces the brass throw to a reasonable distance and prevents the huge dents you get without it. I had Bill Springfield do a trigger job. His trigger job is just excellent.


> wspringfield@comcast.net wrote:
>
> I can set you up with a pull that has virtually no creep in the 4.75 area. I
> also remove all the take up slack. Price runs $54 and return postage is
> included. Only the trigger pack is needed, personal check is fine. My address
> is:
>
> Bill Springfield
> 4135 Cricket Ct.
> Colorado Springs, Co 80918

I like my rifle.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/PTRFullLength079.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/PTRRearSight.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Rifles%20various/PTR91PortBuffer.jpg

bobotech
August 5, 2009, 09:32 PM
Does the PTR 91 have fluted chambers?

Z-Michigan
August 5, 2009, 09:42 PM
The PTR91 has a fluted chamber, as do all rifles of this type. It's necessary for reliable operation.

The PTR91 can be had for around $1000 from CDNN, in various flavors. CETMEs are always made from parts kits and run from $550 and up these days (See Classic Arms, they have had them in stock lately). CETME quality will be inconsistent due to being assembled usually by Century and being used parts kits. The PTR is made from mostly new parts, the rest unissued surplus, and made very well. Some reviews have said the PTR is made slightly better than the HK91, of which it's a clone.

A real HK91, used, will probably be $2000 and up due to the brandname. There's also a Springfield Armory clone (made on HK's tooling in Greece IIRC) that is occasionally seen with prices all over the map. I wouldn't choose either of these as a shooter, only as a collectible.

The basic design is very reliable. IMHO its major strength. If you're still at an initial look, I'd suggest you look at all the .308 options out there.

Mags are very cheap, $3 each for moderately used is still common and potentially as low as $1.50 in large quantity. Or new old stock in the $10 range.

Ammo is .308 for price purposes...

Shear_stress
August 6, 2009, 07:44 AM
CETMEs are always made from parts kits and run from $550 and up these days (See Classic Arms, they have had them in stock lately). CETME quality will be inconsistent due to being assembled usually by Century and being used parts kits.

Got to disagree with the "always" part. There are a few genuine, semi auto, Spanish-made CETMEs floating around. They were imported by Mars Equipment in the 1960s and were of excellent quality. I had the opportunity to buy one about a month ago for a price that, though amazingly good for that rifle, was still more than I was willing to spend.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 6, 2009, 08:56 AM
FFMedic, PM is sent.

vit
August 6, 2009, 09:43 AM
The barrel is a Thompson Center I was not aware of this.
Love my PTR-91KP -very reliable and accurate.
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/8722/img3711nk7.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5291/img3712dd4.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff280/uzvslbu/IMG_0399.jpg

Storm
August 6, 2009, 09:50 AM
The Century Cetme went through a number of generations that can be identified with a bit of research. I'd have to find it, but there is a great discussion somewhere of the various generations and the quality of each one. The earlier guns had issues which led to some much deserved criticism. Over time the rifle has increased significantly in quality. I would have far, far less concern over the latest guns produced. If buying a gun that has been around awhile I would want to determine what generation that it falls into and verify that it does not have a ground bolt. Bolt gap is an issue that is relatively easily addressed with a change in rollers, but a ground bolt is completely unacceptable. I have not heard of ground bolts in recently produced rifles, but maybe someone will know otherwise.

The PTR 91 is a superior weapon that in some minor ways is an improvement over the HK91. Some folks that I know who are even more into HK's than I am point to the build quality of the PTR as being better than an HK. Weld quality is often an area mentioned.

SoCalShooter
August 6, 2009, 03:06 PM
I have a PTR 91 I paid 1500 for mine and I love it now that I am starting to break it in and if you keep the flutes nice and clean you will have no problems. Mags are dollar a piece from cheaper than dirt when they have sales.

Gelgoog
August 6, 2009, 08:11 PM
Century also made a number of HK-91 clones ( not cetmes) and I think they did quite a good job on them...I think they were farmed for someone else to make. I have one of them and its quite well made, the only issue is that the receiver is a hair thicker when it comes to the collapsible stock groves meaning that a factory stock collapsible will not fit without modification.

jr4521
October 8, 2009, 06:13 PM
I have an AW serial number PTR 91 , it is my first type of rifle like this,I have an AR10 and others. I keep seeing the issues with the tar sealed ammo. If I don't put tar sealed ammo in it it will work fine. I have to say I have never bought Tar sealed ammo. I buy cheap steel ammo for it,wolf ,bear,and it works fine,no issues or FTF. I buy the good match grade for the Long range .308 and the AR10 shoots anything, but even that has issues if its dirty.I come from the USMC school of shooting, I fire my weapon and then I clean it, does it really make the rifle that bad if i cant use ammo from a few countries? It has been an awesome accurate shooter.I keep it clean and it goes bang. Even my Colt ar15 works like crap when i shove semi crap ammo in it from other countries. I just dont think its that big of a price to pay to just not use the ammo that screws it up. Does anyone else feel this way or am I a lone wolf on this one?

bk1
October 8, 2009, 07:55 PM
I bought my PTR91 with the understanding that it was as reliable as the original HK91. However, I now see threads all over the place with people having to figure out what ammo their PTR will properly cycle with.

That is not my idea of a reliable go to rifle. It's fine for times when I can control exactly the kind of ammo I am going to use. That may not always be the case. I may at some point be desperate to use whatever .308 ammo I can find. I don't want to have to find out the hard way that my rifle isn't very reliable with that particular ammo.

Mine won't even cycle quality PRVI M80 ammo!! I can use brown bear etc though.

Hammerhead6814
October 8, 2009, 08:08 PM
Well, CETME's have primarily been imported/made by Century. I don't know if anyone else has tried.

Z-Michigan
October 8, 2009, 08:12 PM
DSA seems to be the only .308 "battle rifle" manufacturer that gets any decent ratings.

Say what? Ever heard of:
Springfield Armory (M1A; also versions of the G3 [SAR-8 I believe] and FN-FAL [SAR-4800])
Fulton Armory (M14)
Smith Enterprise Inc. (M14)
Armalite (fka Eagle Arms) (AR10)
Knight's Armament (SR25, which is basically an AR10)

I see mostly to all good reviews of those, except for price. I also see generally good reviews of the DPMS LR-308, though it's not quite as serious a gun for military or other hard use.

WoofersInc
October 9, 2009, 02:48 PM
Mags are very cheap, $3 each for moderately used is still common and potentially as low as $1.50 in large quantity. Or new old stock in the $10 range.

Cheaper than Dirt currently has used G3 mags for 99 cents. I ordered a bunch of them and other than wear marks they were all in decent shape. Some people have reported getting some of their orders with mags that were still in the wrapper.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MAG304-36.html

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
October 11, 2009, 02:55 PM
I'm joining the military next week. This is a rifle that I want to be able to buy while I'm in service.

Quiet
October 11, 2009, 05:51 PM
Keep in mind that...
CETME and G3/HK91 magazines are not interchangeable.
G3/HK91 magazines are less expensive than CETME magazines.

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