[Chairman Meow]

So I was up at the Holladay gun club yesterday to shoot my new Kimber. I was alone on the 25/50 yard range just practicing presentation and trying out a new box of reloads. This range is off to the far north end of the club and I could hear someone south of me shooting a full auto. They were only shooting little bursts, 10 or 15 rounds at the most. I didn't think much of it until I smelled smoke, looked up and saw the hillside going up in flames.

This range sits at the edge of the Salt Lake valley in the foothills, which are very dry this year, and this fire was moving uphill fast. I cleared my .45, secured it in my vehicle, and ran over to the other end of the range. I work as a programmer / engineer for the Forest Service and as a formality I have to have my wildland firefighter certification, though I have never actually used it outside of training fires. I was thinking aww crap, the news is going to run some damn story about how gun owners lit the whole Wasatch front on fire and then they're gonna close my range. Fan-frickin-tastic. So I made sure the range was closed and grabbed a shovel and started running up along side the fire. I was hoping to get in front of it to dig a line before it got too big, but that hill is STEEP it had already run a hundred yards up the hill. There was no way I was going to catch the top of it, and even if I could it was to big to be uphill of for safety reasons. A couple other guys and I placed lines all the way up the left edge of the fire to keep it from spreading north, but it started taking off diagonally up and left up a second draw, so I ran up there and started a line. After another 100 yards of line I had managed to get that finger of the fire out but the middle finger was running hard and had engulfed about 20 acres at that point. I had been going full steam for nearly an hour and a half and man was I tired.

County fire had arrived and was dragging hose up the hill so I went around them through the black and put out some spots on the other side before heading back down the hill to my truck. I was covered in soot and rather pissed about my day of shooting being ruined. I was thinking that the guys with the full auto (who incidentally did NOTHING to help me fight the fire) were probably using tracers which are illegal in Utah for what is obviously a very good reason. I went and talked to the sherriff and he said he checked out the tax stamps and ammo and it was all legit, just a stray spray of bullets sparked on some rocks or something. In all the excitement I had locked my keys in the damn truck so I had to call my girlfriend and get her to come let me in. On top of that, I melted part of my new Safariland holster, ruined my favorite jeans, got blisters all over my hands from digging with no gloves, and inhaled enough smoke that I have been coughing ever since and think I am now getting sick.

There had been news choppers circling so I figured there would be something on the news about it but there wasn't. I guess that means that county fire got it out before it got very big.

Moral of the story: Thats what I get for skipping out of the office early on a Friday to go shooting. :rolleyes:

[TheeBadOne]

Sounds like anything but a boreing afternoon. :p

[Beetle Bailey]

Well, this might be a bit tough to swallow, but look on the bright side. Apparently nobody got hurt. The fire didn't get out of control. You got a chance to show the girlfriend what a hero you are :D .

[stellarpod]

Heck, Chairman Meow! This is AMERICA! There's GOT to be someone you could sue for medical bills! :D

stellarpod

[Kentucky Rifle]

Forget the litigation. I'm PROUD to be on the same forum as you! You saw something which needed to be done, and you had the 'NADs to act. The guys who started the fire just stood there with their thumbs in their ***'s. YOU had the courage to act and clean up their mess. The only other thing you should have done is to relieve them of their firearms and kick their ***'s.

KR

[dave5339]

Try sending your holster off to Safariland. Include the story about what happened and what you did. Who knows? They might send you a new holster!

Semper Fi

[Dave Markowitz]

Well done, sir!

[4v50 Gary]

Good work. :D

[C.R.Sam]

Nuther...
Well done

Sam

[Kamicosmos]

Excellent job! Something to be proud of.

I have to admit (sheepishly too) that if I had seen the fire, I would have called the fire dept, and probably had to have stood there and watched it burn...I have no idea what to do about a fire. Digging trenches around it is a good idea...but I don't have a shovel in the Jeep.

So, is the saying now "A bad day putting out a fire at the range is better than a good day at the office?"

[TallPine]

Good job!

Too bad you didn't have some protective gear in your vehicle, but I don't suppose the FS supplies you with stuff unless you gou out on one of THEIR fires.

I'm almost surprised you did anything, just because all the FF training tells you not to be out there without all the gear ... helmet, clothes, gloves, goggles, fire shelter, etc.

[Archer]

Chairman Meow,

That's my home range too- I saw the smoke Friday while driving home on the west side belt (10 miles away) and I figured it must have started in the way you mentioned. Yes, it looks like County managed to put it out fast. I eyeballed it as a total of about five acres going up the hill.

But I am filled with admiration at your initiative.

What really bothers me is that yesterday, Saturday, the day after the fire, a large group of six or seven was back in that same far East bay with class 3 weapons from MP5's to full-auto .308's... and sure enough, there were impact puffs going up and down the now-scorched hill, not to mentions bits of jacket and rock bouncing all the way into the 15 yard range next door.

Yes I talked to them about it, but all I got was a hostile glare. Some people won't be happy until that range is shut down, I suspect.

All you need for a class 3 is a tax stamp and a clean background. It seems brains are not required.

(Not intended toward anyone but the group in question, of course.)

[10-Ring]

At least you were able to do something to help out before it got out of hand!

[Detachment Charlie]

No good deed goes unpunished.

Nice work.

[jar]

Congratulations and a big Thank you. Folk like you are the real heros in my book. Been out on fires just like that and it takes real guts to do what you did.

Again, thanks. It's an honor to find folk like you.

[Sven]

Good work!

[Chairman Meow]

Thanks guys. I think I will keep the Safariland the way it is as a battle scar. It's still totally functional.

The rock in that area is mostly quartz, and it sparks if you hit it with steel. Could it be that they were using steel core bullets? If so, perhaps the range could make a policy against them. Don't the M855 and SS109 rounds have a steel penetrator tip? I think that might just be the culprit in this case.

I was also thinking that every year we could get a bunch of members together, go up and place a fire line about 25 yards up the hill. We could even make it permanent by using some herbicides to kill the grass for good. If we could get about 10 or 15 guys together we could do the whole thing in an hour or so. I could even get some Forest Service guys I know to come help out. Maybe next spring I'll start a post about it and try to rally the troops. This is not the kind of press the gun community needs right now, especially with the AWB issue coming up.

[Trempel]

"Moral of the story: Thats what I get for skipping out of the office early on a Friday to go shooting. "

The real moral of the story is that the range was lucky to have you there. You did your part in fighting the fire, and I hope that the coughing will go away soon.

[Hardtarget]

:) Three cheers!. You qualify as a HERO...thats an ordinary guy, in an extraordinary situation that can keep his head together and ACT!
Congratulations. you 'da man! we're glad to know you. :D
Mark.

[Archer]

I have just returned from the range.

Found out how the fire started. :fire:

It was a group of people which included the local public business figure "Dan the Laptop Man", obnoxious radio advert pitchman and apparent business partner of the uber obnoxious "Super Dell", owner of Totally Awesome Guns (and computers), shooting class 3 weapons. I have seen this group shooting twice before up there. Once, in June, it was in a prohibited area for class 3 fire (the 10-yard West range). The reason it's prohibited there is the presence of metal target stands.

"Spray and pray" seems to be the order of the day, both times I have seen them shooting.

There does not appear to be any evidence regarding CM's earlier comment regarding the possibility of tracers being used.

The local sheriff's department supposedly called it "an accident" and after checking all the paperwork, pronounced the group clean.

The club might be billed by the county for the fire. The bill could run into the thousands. :cuss:

This following item is very annoying in regard to that fire: From the Saturday Salt Lake Tribune, contained in a story about another fire. It's annoying because there are no metal posts on the east range where the group was shooting !

Meanwhile, a bullet ricocheting off a metal post near a Holladay Gun Club target may have sparked a 10 acre blaze that took crews nearly three hours to suppress Friday. The field fire swirled up the benches above 6400 S. Wasatch Blvd. just after 4 p.m., according to Salt Lake County Fire Capt. Jay Ziolkowski, who said 15 county firemen and four U.S. Forest Service workers remained on scene to check hot spots. There were no injuries and no structures threatened, Ziolkowski said.

IMHO, if this group 'fessed up to sparking the blaze, which they apparently did, and the club gets billed by the county, then the shooters should reimburse the club. Just IMHO.

[kernal_panic]

Meow if i was you i'd go see a doctor and get a blood test for lead levels. the grass on that back stop has been drinking water from dirt with ALOT of lead in it. and that lead went up in smoke into your lungs.


Good Job btw!

[JackM]

Been in a few grass & bush fires.
You did good.

Bye
Jack

[P95Carry]

Pity your shooting got screwed Chairman ....... but Kudos Sir ..... if you had not been there, it sounds like things coulda been quite a bit worse.

[Chairman Meow]

Trempel - my cough has subsided and I feel fine today, thanks.

kernal_panic - Now you got me worried about my health! :uhoh: Lead? Eeek! I am thinking that I was far enough up the hill that I was away from most of that, but you are right there is an awful lot of lead in them thar hills. Is there a doc on this forum?

Archer - Sounds like we got a problem with them computer nerds. It's one thing for them to annoy the hell out of me with their advertisements, but it's another thing all together to light my favorite range on fire. I think if the gun club gets stuck with the bill we should let those guys know and ask them to at least help pay for it. They could have put the fire out when it first started! They had to have seen it! AAARRRGH! :fire:

I drove out today past Big Cottonwood and then turned around and headed back north so I could see the damage and the fire went all the way to the top of that first ridge. I think the paper said it ended up being 10 acres. From my experience with the fire community I can tell you that putting that fire out was not cheap by any means. I would say that 10k would be a low end estimate as there were over a dozen fire fighters, a couple trucks and a few medic wagons present. The bill is already in the thousands when they arrive so I can only imagine. This could be bad for the club. I get the impression it is more or less a non-profit venture. I'd be surprised if they break even but I don't know for sure. Unfortunately, if Dan the Laptop Man wasn't breaking any club rules then there is no way for him to get stuck with the bill, right? Any lawyers have a thought on the subject?

[Chairman Meow]

Quick thought - Do gun ranges have to have insurance? I have to imagine they do, so maybe that will cover them. Anybody here ever run a range before?

[BluesBear]

As my Kentucly brother said earlier,

Y'all make me proud to be here.
Meow you are an inspiration to us all.

I salute you sir.

[griz]

Good work Chairman Meow.

As for the insurance, some do amd some don't. The one I was most familiar with carried no insurance because it was so expensive. They told you this when you joined. They could probably handle small claims from existing funds, but by design a big lawsuit would just shut them down.

[Kentucky Rifle]

Why don't you send Safariland an e-mail detailing the story anyway? They might send you ANOTHER holster. They just might think you deserve a new holster as much as we do. In any case, they'll appreciate the story. It's free advertising.

KR

[Doug444]

CM,
Put me on the list for a work detail this spring. I don't shoot there that often, but it's mighty handy when I need it. Good work. I, too, feared the worst when I saw the smoke at the Mouth of Big Cottonwood. Seems like a fire extinguisher needs to be a part of my range bag from now on!

Doug444

[BluesBear]

Write to Safariland and tell them how well their holster held up.

All companies like to hear good stuff about their products.


You could freak them out and tell them the handgun inside it melted. :evil:

[w.Clark]

I was also at the range that day. I imagine you were one of the 2 people in the white t-shirts on the hill.

I looked at the range where Dan was shooting and there was in fact a steel fence post inside one of the blue plastic barrels.

Dan did in fact run up the hill with his friend and begin to attack the fire immeadiately. They actually may have been able to have stopped the fire before it got to the steeper incline but.....The manager (Karen) yelled at him like crazy to "get off the hill right now, get off the hill or I'll have you arrested, get off the hill or you will never be allowed at this range ever again!!!
She said she also yelled at you but stopped when you told her you were a forest Svc person. (I didn't know that she had yelled at you guys as well until I asked her why she didn't require the 2 guys in white t-shirts to get off the hill.

Thank you for your effort at containment of the fire. I imagine you mitigated the fire's travel westward along the side of the mountain.

Perhaps the fire extingusiher idea is good-especially in the hot hot part of the summer. Here's a thought, would you ever want to go on vacation in the summer of you owned one of the soon to be houses near the top of that hill?

Sincerely,
W. Clark Aposhian
Chair Utah Self-Defense Instructors' Network

[Don Galt]

What the $#^&&!@! They were shooting and started a fire and what did they do? Stand idly by and watch it burn and then watch you fighting it? :fire:

That sounds like a clear failure of personal responsibility on their part-- if they had been on the ball, they could have put it out when it was small! Unless it turns out that they didn't start it, I hope losing priviledges at the club is the least of their punishment. (Unless they renumerate the club significantly for the hassle.) :cuss:

[w.Clark]

I realize these posts are updated sometimes in a flurry of responses so
I will assume that didn't read my post where I stated they DID try to put the fire out when it was small. They were ordered and threatened to STOP. You sir are correct, When it was small I think they could have had a handle on it, but we'll never know as the woman at the club stepped so now we'll never know for sure.
Sincerely,
W. Clark Aposhian

[BluesBear]

So it would seem that "Karen" would be as much at fault for the eventual damage done as the shooters that accidentially started it.




W.Clark, no flurry of posts. There was over an hour between your post and the next one. Someone just didn't take the time to read all the way to the end and jumped to conclusions without all of the facts.

[Gunner45]

Why to go Chairman Meow!!

Sorry to hear about you holster. I saw just a snippet about that fire on KSL.

It's nice to know that there are still some people around that wouldn't say, "Hey it's not my prob".

Gunner45

[Archer]

Bluesbear takes this potshot from the Northwest;

So it would seem that "Karen" would be as much at fault for the eventual damage done as the shooters that accidentially started it.

I strongly disagree, Bluesbear, but then I know the people involved, and perhaps you do not. She was more likely interested in ensuring that people did not get burned. Karen is a competent and personable individual and I would trust her judgement in the matter more than that of the people who started the fire in the first place.


Clark,

I know who you are and respect all you have done to advance CCW in Utah, so please don't take the following observation as anything other than conversational (as opposed to confrontational).

However... you're right, we will never know whether one of the shooters- people who are probably NOT trained to deal with fire- might have stopped the fire... or keeled over from a heart attack, or suffered third degree burns and sued the club because Karen DID NOT stop him.

Right ?

[BluesBear]

Archer,

I was not trying to take a potshot. My intention was to put in a rolling eyes emoticon, I even left the space for it, but got so caught up in replying to someone who jumped to incorrect conclusions that I forgot to do it.

My original meaning was that someone looking for a scape goat could claim negligence on the manager. Of course we know that the same people who would do that would also be the first to claim the same thing if anyone was injured in trying to extinguish it.

I have no doubt but that Karen is a competent and personable individual, however I do personally feel that threatening someone for trying to do the right thing is a bit harsh. But considering the heat of the moment (no pun intended) I can almost understand it.

Again there were no potshots intended.

If this had happend in a TV movie (spark from a fencepost in a target starting a wild fire) we'd ALL be rolling our eyes.
It just goes to show sometimes "stuff" happens.

[Bowlcut]

well all i will say is...

you da man!


way to go fighting it.....truely a selfless act. you will be rewarded thats for sure.

[Archer]

Fair enough Bluesbear, thanks for clarifying your POV:)

[w.Clark]

You are correct.

[Chairman Meow]

The two guys in the white T-shirts were the other two guys up there, I was wearing a black sweatshirt I had in my truck and I was below them. They went ahead and stomped out spots while I followed up and dug line directly on the fire. They helped a lot. I tried to convince them to stay further down and not get uphill of the fire but they were confident that they could jump it if it picked up. This worried me because grass fires can move 60+ mph uphill in a strong wind. I was hot but I put on the sweatshirt for fire protection. T-shirt + fire fighting = bad idea.

When I was first taking off up the hill I was mostly concerned for the guys already on the hill. I am a certified wildland firefighter and a certified EMT and I was worried that these guys would get hurt. After I got up to them and talked to them I felt better, they seemed to have a good handle on the safety precautions. Karen yelled at me when I was taking off up the hill but I told her who and what I was and she let me go. She was more worried about her shooters lives than the grass above the range and for that she is to be commended. She was absolutely right to be worried because if something goes wrong on the fire front and you don't know what to do, you are screwed. Like I said, fire moves fast, and until you've actually seen one pick up in the wind and haul a$$ you can't even imagine what it's capable of doing. I've only seen little flare ups in my limited exposure to fire but it was enough to drive the message home.

Karen and I talked for a bit when I came down and she is a real sweetheart.

CM

P.S. - Took my CCW class last night. Yay!