[faizi]

Please share ur experience regarding this shotgun.i need ur reviews.

[Badger Arms]

Solidly built. Two action bars vs. the one on an Ithaca 37. The design is 90 years old so it's a tried and true one. Norinco has a very poor fitting stock designed for people who don't shoot the guns with more drop and a sloped comb that makes it more painful to shoot than a standard shotgun. Sights are an interesting gimic that helps you shoot slugs but makes point or wingshooting more difficult. You're supposed to point a shotgun and that's an advantage on speed.

Finish sucks and the preservative they come with sucks. Soak it in simple green, scrub it off, rinse it with hot water, and put a good coating of rem oil or Break Free. That's about it.

[faizi]

Badger Arms,
Thanks a lot for the info.how is the reliability of this shotgun?

[MAX100]

Here is my take on the Hawk M37 and what I know. They are very well made utility tactical shotgun just like the other shotguns Hawk Ind. makes: H&R Pardner Pump & 981 & 982.

I owned one and use to sale them when they were available. I would like to own one again.

Model 37, The first imported - GRS Then they added a bead sight model and model #s went like this.

Model 371 - Bead Sight
Model 372 - GRS

*Made of all harden steel with a thick heavy receiver.
*All machined steel parts NO MIM parts
*Nice simple steel Ghost Ring Sights same as the ones on the Hawk 982 which most like, very durable.
*Parkerized Finish
*Fit & finish "very" good - It's a Utility Tactical not a pretty Wing shooter. It's made to take a beating.
*Stock is very nice as you see by the picture below very thick & durable. Not thin and hollow sounding like the plastic stocks that come on the more expensive & cheap shotguns today. Built for durability. As you can see nothing poor fitting about the stock design.
*Steel heat shield
*Duel charging bars.
*Nice durable machined aluminum trigger guard
*Bottom eject
* Very close copy of the Ithaca 37, stocks and such will fit, some might need a little fitting.
*Reliability is excellent on most guns. The Model 37 design can have feed problems. Mine was very reliable and never had a single feed issue.

The Hawk Model 37 or 372. Nice looking & well made and a heck of deal. Ithaca M37 shotguns cost a lot and you won't find one with a nice set of GRS.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/MAX100/HAWKM37-01.jpg


As you can see the Fit & finish is very good and the stock is nice & well made. The stock comfortable and the drop is right on for a bead sight or GRS.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/MAX100/HAWKM37-2.jpg


A look at the the GRS on the Hawk Model 37 & Hawk 982 shotguns. Simple well made and those that train with GRS and no how to use them don't find them to be a gimmick.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/MAX100/NORGRS-2.jpg


I wish I had never sold mine.


GC

[Badger Arms]

A look at the the GRS on the Hawk Model 37 & Hawk 982 shotguns. Simple well made and those that train with GRS and no how to use them don't find them to be a gimmick.

...yeah... the implication being that I don't? Way to take the high road on this one, buddy. Ghost ring sights reduce point or wing shooting effectiveness and increase accuracy with slugs. FACT. Don't call me out because you've watched a Gunsite advertisement.

[MAX100]

Don't call me out because you've watched a Gunsite advertisement.


I don't follow Gunsite or any other. So I have no idea what you are talking about.

You either like GRS or you don't. They aren't a Gimmick.

I posted my assessment of the Hawk 37 with plenty of info pictures to backup it up.


GC

[Badger Arms]

GRS are a sales gimic for selling a "tactical" shotgun. A Serious defense shotgun does not need to have GRS on it, it's just a tacticool thing. GRS reduce the effectiveness of point and wing shooting and increase the accuracy of slugs. (Heard that before?) Most people ignore this fact and assume that GRS=Tactical and Tactical=Good regardless of the FACT that GRS guns are slower on target in the majority of home defense situations. Invest in a good weapon-mounted light and some ammo.

[MAX100]

GRS are a sales gimic for selling a "tactical" shotgun. A Serious defense shotgun does not need to have GRS on it, it's just a tacticool thing. GRS reduce the effectiveness of point and wing shooting and increase the accuracy of slugs. (Heard that before?) Most people ignore this fact and assume that GRS=Tactical and Tactical=Good regardless of the FACT that GRS guns are slower on target in the majority of home defense situations. Invest in a good weapon-mounted light and some ammo.

That's your opinion not shared by many professionals or me.

Norinco has a very poor fitting stock designed for people who don't shoot the guns with more drop and a sloped comb that makes it more painful to shoot than a standard shotgun. Finish sucks and the preservative they come with sucks. Soak it in simple green, scrub it off, rinse it with hot water, and put a good coating of rem oil or Break Free. That's about it.

The finish and stock are well made as shown in my post above. There is a lot of misinformation about the Hawk Ind made shotguns on the net. Hawk Ind in China has been in business for around 55 years and they know how to manufacture Military Arms and do it well.

Guns that are shipped across saltwater need to be packed in cosmoline or heavy oil.


GC

[Badger Arms]

That's your opinion not shared by many professionals or me.


Not my opinion, FACT. Meet me at the border (Pedros?) and we'll shoot a few rounds of skeet. Let's see who breaks more birds. Then we'll shoot some moving silhouettes from the hip-ready position, shoulder, and fire. See who's faster? You can shoot slugs all day with yours and do better than my bead-sighted gun, but then I didn't claim my gun was better with slugs.

Finish or stock doesn't suck shown in my post above.

I didn't say the finish on the stock sucked (but now that you mention it... it does). I was speaking about the metal finish.

You seem to be DEFENDING when I was not OFFENDING your opinion, just stating the facts. Your choice if you want to ignore the facts.

[MAX100]

we'll shoot a few rounds of skeet. Let's see who breaks more birds. Then we'll shoot some moving silhouettes from the hip-ready position, shoulder, and fire. See who's faster? You can shoot slugs all day with yours and do better than my bead-sighted gun, but then I didn't claim my gun was better with slugs.


We are clearly not on the same page. I am talking about defense with a shotgun made for defense. I don't hunt but if I did bird hunt or shoot clays it wouldn't be with a special purpose shotgun made for defense. This thread is about a shotgun that is designed for defense.

I was speaking about the metal finish.

I was talking about the metal finish as well. It's very well done as seen in the pictures. It's a tough as nails tactical utility shotgun that's made to take a beating. It's going get scuffed up anyway.


GC

[JWF III]

Not to hijack the thread...

Does the Norinco (or any other M37 clone) "slam-fire" like a true Ithaca? Or do they leave the factory with the disconnector?

Wyman

[MAX100]

Does the Norinco (or any other M37 clone) "slam-fire" like a true Ithaca? Or do they leave the factory with the disconector?

No slam fire. It's was imported under sporting shotguns so you can see why.


GC

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

I wonder when Badger is going to realize that, basically, Ghost ring = improved bead.


You're not supposed to see the rings, man.
You're supposed to see the front post, and the blurry ring (ghost ring, get it?) is there for reference.

If you're holding the shotgun right, it's all secondary.

[faizi]

Thanks guys for ur input.i wanna buy this shotgun for HD.but i am worried about its reliability.does it feeds and ejects reliably?

[MAX100]

Thanks guys for ur input.i wanna buy this shotgun for HD.but i am worried about its reliability.does it feeds and ejects reliably?

I answered that above. Most are very reliable but with the model 37 design there are few that could need some tweaking to be reliable.

The Hawk 982 is very good low cost choice also and very reliable.

GC

[faizi]

What kind of tweaking does it need if there are some reliability issues?

[MAX100]

What kind of tweaking does it need if there are some reliability issues?

Don't know maybe a Ithaca 37 owner can tell you. Do a Google search on the model 37 reliability or feed problems and see what you come up with.

Where did you find a Hawk 37 for sale and how much do they want for it? I would like to have one.


GC

[753X0]

You might want to read about some of the weapons this Co. makes and who they do business with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norinco

Norinco owns Hawk.

http://www.guncity.co.nz/12ga-norinco-98-with-p-grip-sliding-stock-xidp165671.html

You'll have to scroll about 2/3 of the way down to see it's listing.

http://worldinventory.googlepages.com/wiw_as_bangladesh

[MAX100]

It's made by Hawk Ind not Norinco. Remington H&R has a Hawk Ind shotgun in their lineup.

Hawks Ind Website showing the shotguns they make.

http://www.hawkindustries.com.cn/english/cpmore.asp?cpclasstype=Hunting


GC

[753X0]

You might want to read this thread also.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1935748

[MAX100]

You might want to read this thread also.

Like I said there is a lot of bad information about the Hawk shotguns posted on forums from ones who have never owned one and don't know anything about them. The thread you posted is from over three years ago. The pictures I posted above disputes everything that's being said in the thread link you provided.

The same things were being said about the Pardner Pump & Hawk 982 shotguns until I started challenging the ones saying them to provide any info from personal experience to back up their claims. They never could because it always turn out they had never owned one and didn't know anything about them. Today the Hawk Ind made shotguns are very popular and the owners like them because they are very well made.

You have read what I posted above, if you have any pictures or personal experience with the Hawk Ind Model 37 to dispute what I posted, Let's hear it.


GC

[753X0]

Max, you said this gun is made by Hawk, I've provided you with links showing that Hawk and Norinco are one in the same.
In case you didn't want to read the listing I posted, here's the part that pertains to the shotgun you are talking about.

Common Name: Model 37 M&P (YL12-1JZ)

Calibre: 18.5×76mmR (12-gauge)

Origin: North China Industries Corp (NORINCO), Beijing, China (copied from Ithaca, King Ferry, USA).

Use: Police forces: general service (200?-).

Details: Folding stock.

Sources: Press photos (200?).

Now if you'll read the other link, it'll explain that Norinco sells their products under a variety of names. Hawk being one of these names. I would imagine to americanize it, so to speak.

The reason I am so pro American, when it comes to this is because Norinco uses it's profits to expand and build and sell AK-47's, RPG's, missiles systems and way to many other weapons to fit onto this page, (read the first LINK). And they sell them to the terrorists sponsoring countries/groups, (mostly Iran) that are currently using them to send our troops home in body bags.
Why can't you just save a little more and buy an American shotgun, you can get a used 870 pretty cheap. Then the money stays here in the US.
And you won't be aiding the enemy, by enabling the Chinese to send more AK's and RPG's to the Mideast.

[MAX100]

These shotguns are made by Hawk Ind. Norinco may or may not have their hands in the pot, who cares. I like Norinco made firearms and many Pro American gun owners just like me do also. They make a very nice well made 1911, AK and many other Arms.

If you have a strong dislike for Norinco stop buying Cerberus Remington Group firearms. They pay Hawk Ind to manufacture H&R Pardner Pump shotguns.

Stick to the subject the thread is about.


GC

[Badger Arms]

I wonder when Badger is going to realize that, basically, Ghost ring = improved bead.

Ahhh, okay. I guess that explains all the Olympic shooters using ghost-ring sights. You got me. Nice one. I admit defeat. :rolleyes:

And I'm not even going to get into a buckshot vs. slug debate on this thread.

[oletymer]

Oh my! An other post dominated by Max the lover of cheap chinese guns. Oh well it makes for interesting reading.

[753X0]

Here's a list of a few things you fund when you buy one these Chinese copies


# 23-2K, a version of the Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23
# Type 56, a clone of the Russian AK47
# QBZ-95, an assault rifle
# QBB 95, a squad automatic weapon version of the QBZ-95
# Norinco Type 63 Light Amphibious Tank
# Type 99 MBT
# Type 86S bullpup assault rifle
# Type 88 sniper rifle
# Type 69 RPG anti-armor rocket launcher, a clone of the RPG-7
# WZ-523 Wheeled APC
# Type 98 anti-tank rocket 120 mm anti-tank rocket system

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp339/jpk222/Mebottomleft-1.jpg

I'm on the bottom left, the guys to my right were both killed, except for the guy sitting on the hood. By the Chi-Com RPG.

Instead of sending your money to China, and allowing them produce these. To sneak into Iran, then across the border to kill our troops. Why don't you just buy a used 870 or Ithaca 37, (I saw a used one at the gun shop for $225), and keep the money here at home, instead of killing our troops with it.

Allow me to introduce myself, My name is Sgt. Kitchen, I'm a totally disabled Vet. Thanks to the weapon listed 3rd from the bottom.

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Badger, you take this internet thing too seriously.

The simple fact is, that you don't use the ghost rings like a rear and front sight system.
You simply shoulder the shotgun correctly, and pay attention to the front sight.

It's just fast.

[Badger Arms]

Once again, the implication that if I disagree with you, I'm ignorant or I just haven't used GRS. Far to the contrary, you are misguided. I don't need to say it again, but the facts are clearly laid out in my above posts. If you decide to ignore it... well that's just your loss I guess.

[MAX100]

Oh my! An other post dominated by Max the lover of cheap Chinese guns. Oh well it makes for interesting reading.

So what's your point. As you can see by the recent threads on the Pardner Pump shotguns I am not the only one. They have become quite popular for a reason. I suspect you'll give in soon and pick one up but don't tell anyone. They are a heck of a deal.

Here's a list of a few things you fund when you buy one these Chinese copies

Internet Troll Definition - Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community.


GC

[zhyla]

Nothing wrong with inexpensive foreign-made equipment, long as it works. Seems like it's hard to screw up something as simple as a pump shotgun.

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Once again, the implication that if I disagree with you, I'm ignorant or I just haven't used GRS. Far to the contrary, you are misguided. I don't need to say it again, but the facts are clearly laid out in my above posts. If you decide to ignore it... well that's just your loss I guess.


You're correct, Badger, I am misguided in that your posts seem to indicate that you are ignorant of the correct usage.

You keep saying something along the lines of "ghost rings are just for making slug shooting more accurate" which leads me to believe that you think they're a big form of aperture sights.

Badger, you didn't post any facts.

You posted an opinion that you believe strongly in, and then you posted an observation concerning Olympic sport shooting.

[Badger Arms]

FACT: Ghost ring sights are SLOWER than a bead or rib with a bead. Do you disagree?

FACT: Ghost ring sights are more ACCURATE than bead or rib with a bead when shooting slugs.

FACT: Bead sights and ribs with beads will ALWAYS be faster than Ghost Ring sights.

FACT: I know how to use Ghost Ring sights and don't think people are idiots for getting them, but as they are marketed, they are a gimic to sell guns. Very few people actually require GRS or have a situation that would be improved by their attachment. If you fall into the group of people who shoot slugs virtually exclusively and shot rarely, then spend the extra money.

You're wrong. I'm starting to think that you're just trolling, so this is the last time I'll state it. That you deny these facts is a bit telling of ANY of your opinions on ANY subject.

[MAX100]

GRS have already been debated by professionals & proven on a Tactical shotgun by professionals, case closed. You either like them or you don't.


GC

[lobo9er]

benelli seems to think GRS are ok and no one knocks benelli for using them more accurate with slugs doesnt really make it a bad thing either besides buck shot doesnt open up that much dont see why ghost ring sight would be bad for buck shot if you train with it there shouldn't be any problems. its more of a personal like or dislike

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

FACT: Ghost ring sights are SLOWER than a bead or rib with a bead. Do you disagree?

FACT: Ghost ring sights are more ACCURATE than bead or rib with a bead when shooting slugs.

FACT: Bead sights and ribs with beads will ALWAYS be faster than Ghost Ring sights.

FACT: I know how to use Ghost Ring sights and don't think people are idiots for getting them, but as they are marketed, they are a gimic to sell guns. Very few people actually require GRS or have a situation that would be improved by their attachment. If you fall into the group of people who shoot slugs virtually exclusively and shot rarely, then spend the extra money.

You're wrong. I'm starting to think that you're just trolling, so this is the last time I'll state it. That you deny these facts is a bit telling of ANY of your opinions on ANY subject.

Dude, just because you strongly agree with something doesn't make it a fact.
You seem to have a less than solid understanding of the word fact and its usage.


FACT: Water is made of two hydrogens and one oxygen.

Observation that I strongly agree with: sparkling water is more refreshing than still water.

By the by, I have actually shot clays with a 590 that had GRS on it. I did much better than the guy next to me with a little golden ball sitting on the front of his barrel.

[zhyla]

Observation that I strongly agree with: sparkling water is more refreshing than still water.

You dare to insult our knowledge of water!!!

Seriously, Badger, while I could be convinced that beads are better for shooting close, moving targets, you haven't provided any. Prepending "FACT" on something without actual data just makes you look ignorant.

The only semi-scientific thing I've read about sights is that GRS promote measurably fast target acquisition. I think that was in comparison to normal rifle sights, not beads. It would not surprise me if GRS and beads are equally fast since you're really doing the same thing - just looking at the front sight and ignoring what is in the rear.

[Youngster]

I think the idea of ghost ring sights is great but in typical practice the sight picture is too cluttered because the sights are just mounted too far forward.

[amd6547]

Well, I think we need a chorus of demands for a course of fire..."COF,COF,COF"--"prove it,prove it".
Personally, I think that a person who is good with a shotgun, and knows his weapon and ammo, would do great work with GRS equipped shotgun point shooting up close, yet still have the ability to reach out with slugs. Sounds like a win-win, to me.

[lobo9er]

Sounds like a win-win, to me.
me too i dont even see what there is to argue about though either you like grs or you don't kinda od thing to be super opinionated about there not a gimmick just a sight if it came with laz'ors maybe you could call it gimmicky or a pair of tactical knee pads and kevlar helmet :) that might make me want one more

[Dave McCracken]

The first set of GRS I ever saw was mounted on an elderly Remington Model 8 rifle ca 1962. A Lyman peep, the owner had removed the aperture and used the hole to sight through for fast shots.

IIRC, he was a vet of the 29th Infantry as several of my Pop's friends were.

My take on GRS setups is simple.

I use Lyman or Williams peep sights with the aperture out. The sight is mounted close to my master eye and looking through the hole and finding the front sight is fast, easy and certain even under stress in short time frame situations.

Similar sights are mounted on all my deer guns. MD hunting is oft fast and close.

At close range, I think I'm faster with a bead, but the difference is slight.

And, I've run no timed tests, so this is merely an opinion.

Finally, everyone better play nice or the padlock goes on the door....

[Norinco982lover]

The Hawk 982 is very good low cost choice also and very reliable.


That's what I've got:D You can tell by my username that I like it.