[goon]

I have read about several cases where handguns were blown up for no real reason while using relatively light charges of powder. I have also read that double based powder can be detonated as a high explosive.
Is that true? If yes, how? What should I do while reloading to minimize the possibility of this happening? Does this have anything to do with the age of the powder? Are there certain namebrands the are vulnerable to this?
I was a 12B in the Army, and I understand the differences with propellant, LE and HE. I don't really need that part explained to me.
I just need to know if this is even something I should be concerned with and what to do to prevent me from blowing myself up.
I like my 9mm's and I like my right hand right where it is. ;)
Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[HankB]

I have read about several cases where handguns were blown up for no real reason while using relatively light charges of powder. About 20 or more years ago there were a number of articles that alleged light charges of Bullseye powder - around 2.7 grains with a 148 wadcutter bullet - were blowing up revolvers. The NRA and the technical people at one of the powder companies tried - and tried HARD - to duplicate these results, and couldn't. Microscopic examination of the blown up guns indicated good old fashioned high pressure - NOT a detonation - was responsible. The only way they could duplicate these conditions was by putting multiple charges in one case AND seating the bullet too deeply. These are things that can happen with some of the older progressive loaders due to either operator error or mechanical fault.

Bottom line . . . there is NO credible evidence of a problem with double-base powder.

FWIW, Bullseye powder was the powder of choice for G.I. .45 hardball ammo. If there were a problem, it would have showed up after a billion rounds or so, you'd think.

(Hmmm . . . but now that I think about it, IF you load ammo with less than 100% loading density, and IF you put the loaded ammo in a case tumbler for an extended period of time, MAYBE the powder granules would be ground down and cause a faster burn?)

[Hkmp5sd]

MAYBE the powder granules would be ground down and cause a faster burn?

There was a rumor floating around a few years back that I have no idea if it is true or not. The FBI used to require one box of .38 ammunition be stored in the glove compartment of every FBI vehicle. According to the rumor, the constant vibration from the cars movement and the fact they rarely replaced the box, the powder would grind itself into a finer powder that would go kaboom when used.

[Jake 98c/11b]

Some of the hotter double base powders can be used as blasting agents with a blasting cap but I see no reasonable explanation where that could happen in a pistol case. I have heard it said that too light of a load can potentially cause problems if the load density is too light. The theory has it that if a light load is spread horizontally in the case a greater portion of the powder is exposed to the blast of the primer, this could cause the pressure to build faster since a greater percentage of the charge is ignited by the primer. I hope that makes some sense, I know what I am trying to say but it does not seem to come across too well.

I I was not clear enough I will use my feeble abilitys to try to explain it again. More time to reply should help me explain things.

[Black Snowman]

I tumbled some mil-surp 7.62 NATO loaded rounds for a total of about 30 hours and pulled a bullet. The ball powder inside (seemed consistant with BL-C(2) ) was totally unmolested. No abrasion occured and no residue was left on the case wall. All the ammo I tumbled (at varying lengths of time) all chronoed within +- 65 FPS of the average velocity, which was tighter than I expected from mill-surp.

Now if were a single-base extruded powder with it's relatively sharp corners and greater mass there might be an issue but I haven't had a reason to experiment with it.

[Sheldon]

What HankB said. They have not been able to duplicate it in a lab, so I think there is more to the detonation theory then just a light charge. I have used light loads in my 38 spl. loads like many others with no problems.

[BigG]

I think it is double charges (or more) but what do I know?

[Art Eatman]

goon, if your question includes an explosion while reloading, no, it won't happen. Smokeless powder doesn't explode; it burns. It burns more rapidly when confined by a cartridge case inside a firearm, yet it's still not considered to be exploding in the sense of C4.

Art

[Jake 98c/11b]

Art, some double base powders can detonate under certain conditions. Deflagration is the rule but some will detonate with a blasting cap.

[Mike Irwin]

I've always heard that the problem with detonation comes with using reduced loads of slower burning powders.

Winchester 296 has the "do not reduce" warnings associated with it for this reason.

[444]

I have always heard the same thing.
The problem involves the use of reduced charges of slow burning powder. Slow burning for the cartridge used. The warning usually involved going below the minimum recommeded charge of powders like H110 or 296 in cartridges like the .44 Mag or .45 Colt. I have never heard of a problem like this involving Bullseye. I do know more than one person that blew up a gun after double charging a case with Bullseye though.
I have no personal first hand experience of this problem but have read it enough times that I am not going to try it. If I want a reduced load in the .44 Mag or whatever, I use recommended loads from a manual, which always involve using a faster burning powder.

"What should I do while reloading to minimize the possibility of this happening? "
You follow the load recomendations in legitimate loading manuals put out by the powder and bullet companies. Of course after you have been loading awhile and gain experience, you recognize what an appropriate charge or powder is for the caliber and bullet you are loading.

[Jim Watson]

Pressure excursions have been blamed on about everything possible.
"Detonation" of reduced loads of slow-burning powder. Friend of mine tried to load .38 target ammo with IMR 4227; he had to mallet the M-19 cylinder open. But the phenomenon was reported much more often back when there was more surplus powder and more wildcats; read in Ackley's books.

"Detonation" of very light loads with very fast burning powder. The old one with 2.7 grains of Bullseye supposedly wrecking a target revolver was the first. You now get a lot of such reports in CAS. Powderpuff loads in big blackpowder cases; supposedly. One such case turned out a little different from what was expected. Not detonation, not a double charge; he had managed to get two **bullets** in one case. Bullet lube gumming up the seating die and real mismanagement of a Dillon.

I use handbook loads, mostly, and don't worry about it.

Some of the local good ol boys did it a little differently. They found that Bullseye (40% nitroglycerine) IS cap sensitive. Using a whole can. They went from a treestump to a hole rat quick, now.

[HankB]

Friend of mine tried to load .38 target ammo with IMR 4227; he had to mallet the M-19 cylinder open.Hmmm . . . that's real interesting. I quit using IMR4227 years ago in .357 because of massive amounts of unburned powder myself, despite trying all the "tricks" of heavy crimp, mag primers, etc. But I was under the impression that detonations with slow-burning powders involved small charges of even slower burning powders (like IMR4350) in bottle neck rifle cases. This is the first instance I've heard of pressure excursions in a straight wall pistol case. (Nitro wouldn't be the culprit here, as the IMR powders are single base, i.e., nitrocellulose with additives and deterrents.)

[goon]

goon, if your question includes an explosion while reloading, no, it won't happen. Smokeless powder doesn't explode; it burns. It burns more rapidly when confined by a cartridge case inside a firearm, yet it's still not considered to be exploding in the sense of C4.


Got that one covered.
I have been reloading for about four years now, and I learned about TNT, C-4, Comp B, etc. before that.
I usually stick to the manual, but I did do a little custom work with some really nice JHP bullets that I couldn't find any data for. I found a load close to the bullet weight in a manual, then reduced that, then started working up a load. The first ones were so light that they often refused to work the slide on my SIG, so I knew I had a safe starting point.
It actually turned out pretty well, thank God.

That was just one of those things that I thought I should ask about.

Anyhow, thanks for all the replies.