Is it just me...


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cauberallies
August 11, 2009, 07:56 PM
... or do the majority of non-gun people believe that guns are registered? And by non-gun people, I don't mean antis. I mean your typical every day person who just isn't intimately familiar with firearms, or the related legalities and culture.

I am known as a gun enthusiast, collector, and shooter in my town, and I am often asked for advice on the subject, a lot of the time by people who don't know much about the subject, but want to. Either they are thinking about getting their first gun and want to know what they need to do to get one, or which one they should get, or that they want to go shooting sometime, or they just simply wanting to know more about them. I can honestly not recall an instance in which the person did not mention registration. Either they ask me if mine are registered, how to register if they get one, or something else along those lines. They are very surprised when I tell them how it really is. Some don't believe me, and insist that I must be mistaken.

This really worries me. If gun registration legislation were to be introduced tomorrow, from what I have seen, most people would think "Aren't they already registered?" and think nothing of the legislation, or even support it.

Does anyone else see this, or is this just a fluke that I've experienced? And if so, what can be done about it?

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TX1911fan
August 11, 2009, 08:01 PM
I don't think it's a fluke. We've had years and years of tv shows and movies talking about having guns registered to their owners. Everyone just thinks that's how it is.

W L Johnson
August 11, 2009, 08:04 PM
Most non-gun people get most of their info from Hollywierd, and most writers for Hollywierd live in CA. The writers have the habit of thinking if it is done a certain way in CA then it is done that way everywhere. Human nature I guess.

oh great, someone just walked by with an Al Franken shirt on. I'm in Kentucky!

hmphargh
August 11, 2009, 08:10 PM
One time, I asked my girlfriend if she wanted to go shooting with me, she said that she wanted to but that she didn't have her gun shooting license. :what:

2aHawaii
August 11, 2009, 08:13 PM
What? There are places you don't have to register your firearms? Next you'll be telling me there is no 14-day waiting period for pistol permits.

Sounds like heaven.

BUGUDY
August 11, 2009, 08:17 PM
Al Franken shirt in Kentucky?? Thats not right. (pun Intended)

Pistol Toter
August 11, 2009, 08:18 PM
I have a sister-in-law who is very antigun unless their was a prowler. Then you know who was called. She got very obnoxiously vocal some years about that. I pretty much have let her know what she can do with herself. She adopted some children, several several years ago now. One of them now a pretty good size young man; I have been told by my wife, ask what it would take to obtain some protection for home, and especially since crime has skyrocketed in the last few years. My understanding is that she believes that one must be licensed to even buy a gun of any type.:what: Ain't my problem especially since she has been a @#$%&*(& otherwise I would try to help her. Here is another funny thing, her ex-husband is a Knox County TN Deputy. Yeah, she done him in too.:D

oneounceload
August 11, 2009, 08:19 PM
What? There are places you don't have to register your firearms? Next you'll be telling me there is no 14-day waiting period for pistol permits.

Sounds like heaven.

Even Better - when I lived in NV, there was a chain of drug stores that sold guns and reloading stuff - you could walk in, buy a handgun, ammo, go to the other corner and get you a bottle of Jack Daniel's and then go over to the pharmacy counter and pick your mood or pain drugs.....all with NO problems

jimmyraythomason
August 11, 2009, 08:22 PM
Most people think the whole world is just like their little corner. I was surprised to learn that outside of the south you can actually go more than 4 miles in any direction and NOT pass a church. I was surprised to see "pre-ban" on for sale magazines with over 10 rounds because, here the ban has been dead for 5 years. There is no political party registration or firearm registration. Isn't it like that everywhere in America?

chris in va
August 11, 2009, 08:35 PM
I watch Judge Judy pretty much every day. Any time an issue comes up concerning a firearm, she's apalled and dismayed to learn there's no 'registration' in the plaintiff's state and loves to berate anyone that happens to own one.:rolleyes:

I was rather shocked to learn she makes millions a year and has her own private jet to fly out to CA every two weeks with.

qwert65
August 11, 2009, 08:58 PM
When my father moved from NJ to KY he asked me, "what do I have to do to register my guns in KY?"
I had to direct him to the website bc he didn't believe that nobody cared about his 22

murdoc rose
August 11, 2009, 09:03 PM
yea most people don't have a clue, actually had a guy who works at a pawn shop and knows a fair amount about guns ask me if i had to have someone fill out a form if i sold them a gun

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 11, 2009, 09:39 PM
Most non-gun people get most of their info from Hollywierd, and most writers for Hollywierd live in CA. The writers have the habit of thinking if it is done a certain way in CA then it is done that way everywhere.

That might explain it - except that I don't think even Calif has registration, do they?

W L Johnson
August 11, 2009, 09:47 PM
except that I don't think even Calif has registration, do they?

You have to register your "assault weapons". (Note the quotes).

Found the FAQ for California gun laws
http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#25

From http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_ca.htm
Handguns

* Permit to purchase handgun? No*
* Registration of handguns? Yes*
* Licensing of owners of handguns? No
* Permit to carry handguns? Yes (If concealed)


* Police record all purchases from dealers.
* Residents moving into California have 60 days to register their handguns.

ServiceSoon
August 11, 2009, 09:48 PM
Even worse, people who think there isn't gun registration. 4473?

Zoogster
August 11, 2009, 09:57 PM
That might explain it - except that I don't think even Calif has registration, do they?
Yes, but most people are unaware because it was called something else and done without thier knowledge for a long time.
You need to pay a fee for being a "personal handgun importer" if you move to California for each handgun you bring along with the details of the firearm.

They have now started calling the form a "NEW RESIDENT HANDGUN OWNERSHIP REPORT". The fee is currently $19 per gun.
The purpose is to register every handgun.

All firearms purchased or transferred in California must go through an FFL. All handguns that go through an FFL are registered to the purchaser and entered into the CADOJ database free of charge and so unnoticed by most purchasers.
That database is open to all police, even in their vehicles, to the state in general, and is constantly checked against a list of newly prohibited persons.
If any current registered owner becomes prohibited it red flags it in the database so they can be arrested and the firearms seized.
A special task force even exists for the purpose.


Here is the Brady website touting it as a great success when the program was established in 2001 along with the HSC requirement:

http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/release.php?release=352

"For the first time in the country, handgun owner records will be continuously checked to identify gun owners who have become criminals or otherwise prohibited and may no longer keep their weapons," said Tolley. "The gun lobby has long opposed keeping records on gun owners, but this new law demonstrates that gun purchase records give law enforcement a critical tool to identify and disarm criminals. We know that thousands of gun owners have become criminals since purchasing their firearms and this law will help police catch them and get their guns off the street."

The automatic registration existed prior to the passage of this legislation. Any handgun purchased or transferred in CA since 1991 has been automatically registered. But it was the first time it was mandated in statute to create a database to neatly organize the information in electronic databases for computerized use and tracking of gun owners.

Handgun Registration & Criminal Cross-Check (SB950 by Senator James Brulte):

1) Track Gun Owners to Identify Criminals. DOJ will compare the records of handgun buyers going back to 1991 with criminal/prohibited person records to identify handgun owners who are no longer allowed to possess their weapons. DOJ estimates there are 170,000 such illegal gun owners in California.

2) Establish Online Database to Alert Local Law Enforcement. DOJ will develop an online database so police officers can cross-check gun owner records with prohibited person records during routine traffic stops and other procedures.

3) Get Handguns Off the Street. DOJ will deploy a special team to assist local law enforcement in investigating and taking action against handgun owners who are no longer allowed to possess their weapons to get their weapons off the street.

Police do not need to "cross check", the system has automated the process and red flags anyone that has ever legally owned a firearm if they become prohibited at any time.
Numerous misdemeanors in California law can cause someone to become prohibited.

Drgong
August 11, 2009, 10:33 PM
I guess I will really peeve people that for $5 a permit I can get up to three handgun permits at a time, and then when I buy a handgun, they don't even have to call it in.

And I can get those permits in say, 30 mins...

W L Johnson
August 11, 2009, 10:37 PM
Permits? Whats a permit? :neener:

Kentucky here, no permits, nothing, walk in walk out with gun, as many as you want. And to top it off, We're an open carry state with, guess what, no permit needed. :neener:

Zoogster
August 11, 2009, 10:41 PM
I guess I will really peeve people that for $5 a permit I can get up to three handgun permits at a time, and then when I buy a handgun, they don't even have to call it in.

In California it is free for residents, and they don't even have to contact the police or realize a registration is going on. They do have an HSC requirement now, which is a multi-choice test that takes a few minutes and must be renewed every 5 years and is completed in most gun shops before purchase. That costs like $30 and is good for unlimited purchases until it expires.


It is not the cost that is a problem. It is the registration. A pre-cursor to effective confiscation after future legislation.
The use of the database to track gun owners in California specifically to disarm them in the future is an example of such use. It is a database, that can be applied however those in power choose.

Though the cost could be ruled a violation of rights, as a voting tax is illegal. A tax/fee/fine would be no different than charging someone to vote. A violation thier 2nd Amendment rights.
Once incorporation is established that avenue can be approached.

Zoogster
August 11, 2009, 10:48 PM
Kentucky here, no permits, nothing, walk in walk out with gun, as many as you want. And to top it off, We're an open carry state with, guess what, no permit needed.

Which is how all states started. Some just remain that way, or closer to that way.

Drgong the NC system was just to give the police discretion over purchasers in the Jim Crowe era. Just as a voting tax or literary test was to keep some groups from voting, the discretionary permit system was to allow the sheriff to refuse blacks.
In modern times the discretion may not be used to refuse blacks, but it can be used to refuse other "undesirables".

Larry Ashcraft
August 11, 2009, 10:49 PM
Whats a permit?
A permit means permission, and no matter how you sugar coat it, requiring permission from the gov to exercise a right is just plain unconstitutional.

I've run into the same thing hundreds of times. Once I showed a loaded magazine to a customer and he gasped and said; "Those are hollow points! Aren't those illegal?" :rolleyes:

This is Colorado. We don't need permission to own a gun, and hollow points aren't illegal.

orionengnr
August 11, 2009, 10:56 PM
It is not the cost that is a problem. It is the registration. A pre-cursor to effective confiscation after future legislation.
The use of the database to track gun owners in California specifically to disarm them in the future is an example of such use.
Just one more reason I will never move back to CA.

bigfatdave
August 11, 2009, 10:57 PM
I also run into the myth that all firearms need to be registered, I figure it comes from police dramas (where it is used to cover up sloppy writing, or to gloss over the tedium of police work) where the lab geeks run around with guns chasing down felons to solve the case in 30/60 minutes.
I make an attempt to educate, but generally I think the information goes in to be pushed out by bad TV writing almost immediately.

newgunmike
August 11, 2009, 11:25 PM
Permits? Whats a permit? :neener:

Kentucky here, no permits, nothing, walk in walk out with gun, as many as you want. And to top it off, We're an open carry state with, guess what, no permit needed. :neener:
well in nc we can open carry to and at 18 with no permit, just not in the city more in the rural areas. of course in nc it is rather difficult to get a permit if you are 18-20 unless your county sheriff is nice. i really hope they get rid of that law i wrote my mayor and all that but i doubt that will make a difference this state is becoming more liberal every day.

mustang_steve
August 11, 2009, 11:38 PM
Most people have no clue what gun laws really are. Part of that is how labrynthine our entire legal system is overall.

It's actually pretty amusing to just quiz some random people on the street about legal trivia and see how it works out. Go for more general subject, not gun specific. When I tried this experiment, I went with vehicular laws. Nearly all of the people who did stop to do it failed those questions. Some of them involved the criteria for safe passing, visibility requirements for lights, etc.

The above may have seemed irrelevant....however....if someone who drives everyday has no idea what the vehicle code is, how are they going to know what firearms laws are?

cchris
August 11, 2009, 11:58 PM
It's always fun to look at the YouTube comments...

"It's illegal to own a silencer!"

"Fully auto guns are illegal!"

People's lack of knowledge on the subject, however, isn't funny. Just the people who think they know what they are talking about.

People who think registration is required in a state where it is not may cause them to not want to buy firearms. On the contrary, people may try to buy a secondhand firearm in a state that requires registration and get in trouble.

For the interest of everyone, it is best to educate people on the subject. Just let people know the laws in your state.

Dr_2_B
August 12, 2009, 12:32 AM
You raise a good point. I hear crap like that a lot as well.

happygeek
August 12, 2009, 01:38 AM
I've been doing what I can to educate co-workers, short of constantly talking guns and annoying people. If someone is interested, I'll try my best to give them all the info they need to know to go get a CCP, where local gun stores are, where ranges are, offer to take them to the range with me etc. Oh, and I always recommend that they go with a military caliber: 9x19 or 45 ACP for pistols, 5.56x45, 7.62x39, or 7.62x51 for rifles. In my limited experience, it's always easier to find those calibers.

On a slightly related note, just a few days ago, I heard a co-worker parroting the Brady/VPC bunch line "there's no rational reason that average joe needs an AK". My simple response was "I agree, but this is the states. We don't ban something just because we think you don't need it and we shouldn't take away people's rights because of what some dumb*ss gangbanger did".

I actually haven't heard anyone mention registration though. That one co-worker is the only person I've heard mention any sort of anti-gun opinion.

Mr. Bojangles
August 12, 2009, 01:48 AM
I realize I'm beating the same old drum with this one, but we all need to do our part to educate others about firearms and the myths/realities associated with them. :what:

I think a very big part of proper firearms education is making firearms interactions and the shooting of firearms an enjoyable experience for those new to it. Firearms are not something to be afraid of or intimidated by, but are a tool that must be used with care and discretion, much like an automobile.

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