[Chizzy]

Hello:

I think that I just learned a valuable lesson. I am fairly new to reloading and I have successfully loaded for my 9mmm, .45ACP, and .223 Remington in the past. I just reloaded 88 rounds of .223; most of which will not chamber in either of my two rifles (I full length resize). I fear that I overdid the crimping stage on my latest batch of my reloads with my Lee Factory crimp die. (When looking down from above the die I allowed the lines or spaces on the die to close or disappear when applying the crimp.) When I run my thumb nail along the cartridge from the head stamp end of the cartridge towards the bullet end of the cartridge I encounter a bump or what I would describe as a lip just before the shoulder of the cartridge. When I do the same test towards a factory round, I do not feel any lip or bump. I suspect that I applied to much factory crimp. Can anyone confirm my suspicions? After doing some reading on this forum I see that some people do not crimp their reloads at all. I have no semi-autos and only have bolt action and pump action rifles; I am contemplating skipping the crimping stage of my reloading process if this is indeed the problem. Thank you in advance for your input.

Regards,

Chizzy

[ants]

I don't think it's the Factory Crimp Die. You can crimp the crap out of the neck with an FCD and it still chambers. At a certain point the three collets merge together and just don't crimp the neck any more, no matter how hard you pull the handle.

I suspect you didn't have the sizing die adjusted down tight enough (you didn't bump the shoulder back far enough). If you screw the die all the way down until it touches the shellholder or shellpate, you need to screw it down another 1/8 to 1/4 turn and check it in the chamber. Turn down another 1/8 to 1/4 if necessary, and do another chamber check. You don't need to seat a bullet for this, just the sized case.

[Steve C]

I fear that I overdid the crimping stage on my latest batch of my reloads with my Lee Factory crimp die.
If the round isn't chambering the problem isn't caused by the FC die. Most likely it was not properly sized and either there is a bulge in the case, often at the base or the shoulder hasn't been set back enought. It could be that you are applying excessive crimp with the bullet seating die and bulging the case neck.

The collet of the FC die for the .223 and other rifle rounds will only crimp the end of the neck of the case, Since the force applied is perpendicular to and even around the case neck mouth it will not bulge the case neck or have any affect on the case body or shoulder which is where you can get chambering problems.

[hydraulicman]

make a dummy round(no powder no primer, just a seated bullet) next time and see if it fits in the chamber

[Chizzy]

Thanks Ants and Steve C!

The problem would best be described as a bulge in the case. I believe that I was careful when setting up my resizing die as I had the die touch the shell holder and then provided an additional 1/2 rotation (if memory serves me correctly); however, I wasn't aware that I could apply excessive crimp with the bullet seating die. I know that I can adjust for seating depth; however, I am not sure how to control the amount of crimp applied with the seating die. (Lee die set). I appreciate all of your help and suggestions.

Regards,


Chizzy

[Chizzy]

make a dummy round(no powder no primer, just a seated bullet) next time and see if it fits in the chamber
Hello hydraulicman:

Thank you for the suggestion; I will certainly do this with my next batch. Lesson learned!

Regards,

Chizzy

[Steve C]

I am not sure how to control the amount of crimp applied with the seating die.

Crimp on the seating die is controlled by how deep the die body is set. If using the FC die for crimp you do not want to apply any crimp when seating.

To adjust the seating die for no crimp simply insert a sized case into the shell holder and run the ram to the top. Screw in the seating die until you feel the case mouth hit the crimp ring of the die. Back out perhaps an 1/8 turn and lock die in place.

Adjust cartridge OAL using the seating stem. Quick way is to back the seating stem out and then using a loaded round of proper length or factory round, run it up into the die and screw down the seating stem till it stops at the top of the bullet then lock in place. Load a round, measure and make little adjustments as needed until you get your desired OAL.

[Chizzy]

Crimp on the seating die is controlled by how deep the die body is set. If using the FC die for crimp you do not want to apply any crimp when seating.

To adjust the seating die for no crimp simply insert a sized case into the shell holder and run the ram to the top. Screw in the seating die until you feel the case mouth hit the crimp ring of the die. Back out perhaps an 1/8 turn and lock die in place.

Adjust cartridge OAL using the seating stem. Quick way is to back the seating stem out and then using a loaded round of proper length or factory round, run it up into the die and screw down the seating stem till it stops at the top of the bullet then lock in place. Load a round, measure and make little adjustments as needed until you get your desired OAL.
Thank you Steve C:

I think this is where I went wrong; I "played" with my seating die during the production of my most recent "problem" batch of rounds.

Just to recap then, with the Lee Factory crimp die it is impossible to apply too much crimp? Is the factory crimp something I should keep doing? (I use my reloads for both target shooting at the range and in the field coyote hunting if that makes a difference). I was under the impression that I should crimp if taking the rounds into a hunting environment. Thank you everyone for all of your assistance.

Regards,

Chizzy

[Sport45]

You can't apply too much crimp with a .223 FCD. Like someone said, the collets will close and not get any tighter. You can still crush the case in a FCD like you can in any other seating/crimp die. If you keep pressing after the collet is closed something has to give and it won't be your press. The shoulder will push out just as described.

You can eliminate this problem entirely by not crimping your .223 rounds... :)

[rcmodel]

If you keep pressing after the collet is closed something has to give and it won't be your press. The shoulder will push out just as described.No, it actually won't be the shoulder.

The case has no pressure applied on it lengthwise in a FCD.

All the crimp operation is supplied by the shell holder pressing on the collet body.
No force is applied to the case to cause it to buckle.

Any buckling done had to have been done with the seater/crimp die being screwed down too far.

rc

[Wildkow]

It could also happen with the powder die if you don't have that properly adjusted. At least with the Dillon Rifle dies it could.

Wildkow

[Sport45]

All the crimp operation is supplied by the shell holder pressing on the collet body.
No force is applied to the case to cause it to buckle.

You're right. I haven't used a rifle FCD in a long time. I pulled out my 7.7jap FCD and it works just like you said. (I was thinking the shoulder pushed up on the collet.)

Any buckling done had to have been done with the seater/crimp die being screwed down too far.

I agree.

You can eliminate this problem entirely by not crimping your .223 rounds... :)

I still think this is the answer. The problem may be that some of the brass wasn't trimmed to the proper length and contacted the crimp ring when it wasn't supposed to.

Checking each case in a case gauge after sizing and again after completing the round will ensure the cartridges will fit in the chamber. I use one made by Lyman for all my M1 and AR loading.

[something vague]

I had a similar problem once a while back in my .223 rounds. It only happened to 2 cases though. My problem was cause by my Lee Collet Neck die and the fact that I annealled some cases as an experiment. I had made my necks and part of the shoulder softer than I was used to and ended up using to much force during the neck sizing operation. I ended up with a bulge just below where the angle of the shoulder starts. I loaded the round before I noticed it. The round would not chamber. This isn't neccessaritly just a rookie mistake, I've seen it happen to the most experienced reloaders I know personally.

I also believe that this problem was caused by the factory crimping die. Not sure if it is your FCD or the seater/crimping die. I've never used a FCD on rifle rounds therefore am unfamiliar with how it works. But by the sounds of it I think it is the problem, you are applying to much force after the collet has squeezed completely around the neck. rcmodel says that it can't be, but I think I disagree (again, I don't know exactly how they work). After the collet has squeezed tightly around the neck, you are still applying upward force to the round with the ram. Eventually something has to give, either the collet slips down the neck, bullet becomes compressed around the sides, or the shoulder buckles into itself. This is what I believe to be your problem and think that you can skip this step all together if your loading for your bolt action.

[rcmodel]

After the collet has squeezed tightly around the neck, you are still applying upward force to the round with the ram. (again, I don't know exactly how they work). Again, the ram isn't pushing on the round.
All it pushes on is the base of the collet, via the shell holder.

The round is just setting there semi-loosely in the shell holder, getting it's neck throttled by the collet crimper the shell holder is pushing on.

rc

[Bruno2]

I have never crimped my .223 for my bolt gun . I usually dont load bullets with a cannalure on them either though . I was going to buy a bunch of .224 bullets (2000) at the gun show next weekend and I might end up buying some that are cannalured to load for my AR . Do I need to crimp those ? These are probably going to sit around in ammo cans for a while before they get shot . If I dont crimp them will they seat themselves farther down in the case and change my OAL after being toted around for a while ?

[Chizzy]

Hello:

Thank you everyone for all of your responses! It appears from the discussion that the problem is either being introduced during the seating stage or the final stage of applying a factory crimp. As I am not using these rounds in a semi-auto; it sounds like I can get away without the factory crimp stage. No that I am aware of the problem; I will watch out for it during the seating stage. I have always trimmed my cases using the Lee pilot tool.

I will need to be on the lookout for a case gauge as Sport45 suggests; I was not aware that such a tool existed and it sounds like it would have saved me some grief here.

Thank you to everyone for your assistance; you have taught me a lot.

Regards,

Chizzy

[something vague]

Again, the ram isn't pushing on the round.
All it pushes on is the base of the collet, via the shell holder.

The round is just setting there semi-loosely in the shell holder, getting it's neck throttled by the collet crimper the shell holder is pushing on.

rc

So you're saying that as soon as the shell holder hits the base of the collet, the case stops moving up? That's doesn't seem possible. It may travel a very small distance but has to continue moving up as the case head is bottomed out in the shell holder while the ram is still moving up. And it seems as though once the collet has completely compressed and too much force is applied to the ram then something has to give. This theory is based on how a Collet Neck die works, which sounds very similar but is without the mandrel.

[Sport45]

RC is correct. The collet is activated by the shell holder and not the case.

[Sport45]

Here's a link to the gage I use. (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=268983)

http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/image?saleitemid=268983

[something vague]

I know the collet is activated by the shellholder and not the case. That isn't the point I'm making. I'm ultimately saying that the buldge in the case is caused by the Lee FCD and using too much force to make the crimp.

The collet has a tight hold around the neck while the case is trying to be pushed up further by the ram. The case is bottomed out in the shell holder therefore has to try and move up, eventually beginning to buckle the case. IMHO.