Best self defense 45 ammo ?


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laktrash
August 15, 2009, 01:36 PM
This my first post on this forum and probably not the best. I know there is thread already going on about self defense 45 ammo, but I'm looking for opinions on most reliable self defense ammo. I know this is opening a can of worms. I carry a S&W 640 with kramer pocket holster in summer. Plan on switching to my CS45 with IWB kramer for winter. I lean toward the old school 230 hardball reliabilty. There are so many different self defense rounds out there that testing for reliability would get expensive. I have several compact 45's which adds to reliabilty issue, altough mine all function fine ( sig P245 a couple of CS45's, detonics combatmaster and a bersa uc 45) and a S&W 325PD looking to add H&K compact 45 maybe in future " 1st plastic gun . Thanks for imput and hope I can contribute to forum in future

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rondog
August 15, 2009, 02:00 PM
Winchester RA45T Ranger SXT's are my favorite, but finding them is the hard part. Speer Gold Dots are second. Both 230 gr. JHP's.

Brian Williams
August 15, 2009, 02:08 PM
I like 230gr LRN, but most will tel you to look at Gold dots. Nix the FMJs.

wuluf
August 15, 2009, 02:23 PM
I'm a fan of the Hornady 200gn TAP, but only because my Kimber likes them best.

cyclopsshooter
August 15, 2009, 02:26 PM
Gold dot 230

ElToro
August 15, 2009, 04:26 PM
i run ranger ra45t becuase i cant find sufficient case quantity of golden saber bonded or HST to test for reliability. i go standard velocity becuase its alreday running about ~900 fps and the +P has is too snappy for my taste YMMV

if you can get ranger, HST, or golden saber bonded, or hornady tap, or corbon dpx you should be fine.

modifiedbrowning
August 15, 2009, 04:38 PM
I like Remington Golden Saber 230 grain.

C-grunt
August 15, 2009, 04:39 PM
Pretty much any of the new hollowpoints from the major manufacturers will be a good choice. Which ever one runs failure free in the gun. If you cant find that, Id use FMJ. After all shot placement counts more than the type of ammunition used.

preachnhunt
August 15, 2009, 04:40 PM
Welcome to the High Road!

Deanimator
August 15, 2009, 05:21 PM
I'm a fan of the Hornady 200gn TAP, but only because my Kimber likes them best.
I like them too, but when I needed some in Jan-Feb, they were IMPOSSIBLE to find. I gave up and bought 230gr. Gold Dots, which I didn't want, but I had to have SOMETHING.

David E
August 15, 2009, 06:49 PM
I like 230gr LRN, but most will tel you to look at Gold dots. Nix the FMJs.

Why Lead round nose, but not FMJ ?

If the RNL is soft enough to expand, then it'd be too soft to survive the trip up the feed ramp.

If you're counting on infection to stop the guy, better pack a lunch !

To answer the OP's question, it depends on the gun and shooter. I tried +P Gold Dots in my aluminum framed compact, but I found the kick to be a bit harsh in that short-gripped, lightweight platform. I switched to standard pressure Golden Sabre 230 grain JHP's.

Nearly any quality JHP that works in your gun that you can control is a decent choice.

mesinge2
August 15, 2009, 06:59 PM
This is now a triplicate of one of my eariler posts, sorry to those that have already read it but it keeps comming up:

I always carried JHP in my 9mm autos, but my first 1911 .45 had trouble feeding JHP so I carried FMJ's. Then I tried Pow'r Ball ammo and it feeds perfectly.

http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/glaser/powrball.htm

The image (This is a 3.8" Barrel) and quote below are from: http://brassfetcher.com/.45ACP%20165gr%20+P%20Cor-Bon%20Pow'r%20Ball.html


103341


Many thanks to Cor-Bon for providing the ammunition used in this test.

Cor-Bon .45ACP 165 grain +P Pow'R Ball

Firearm was semi-automatic action with 3.8" barrel length

Block calibrated at 9.3cm penetration and an assumed impact velocity of 600 ft/sec. (chronograph malfunctioned due to rain at the test site).

Shot 1 - Penetrated to 10.9". Average recovered diameter 0.659".

Shot 2 - Penetrated to 12.6". Average recovered diameter 0.687".

Shot 3 - Penetrated to 11.8". Average recovered diameter 0.698".

Shot 4 - Penetrated to 12.2". Average recovered diameter 0.668".

Shot 5 - Penetrated to 11.4". Average recovered diameter 0.684".

Average diameter = 0.679". Average penetration depth = 11.8"

P.S. I love this site for making comparisons of expansion and penetration.

84B20
August 15, 2009, 07:24 PM
There is a show on one of the cable/satellite stations called Handguns and they featured Winchester PDX1. The demo was quite impressive. They indicated that it is standard issue with the FBI.

Here is more info that I copied from a website.

Winchester Introduces Supreme Elite Bonded PDX1 Ammunition

East Alton, IL - (ShootingWire.com)- The new Winchester® Supreme Elite Bonded PDX1™ is engineered to maximize terminal ballistics, as defined by the demanding FBI test protocol, which simulates real-world threats. The bullet technology which was chosen by the FBI as their primary service round in 40 S&W is now available in a full line of popular handgun calibers. The Bonded PDX1 is engineered to maximize terminal ballistics, as defined by the demanding FBI test protocol, which simulates real-world threats. The new Winchester Bonded PDX1 is offered in 9mm, 40 Smith & Wesson, 45 automatic and .38 special.

Winchester Bonded PDX1 technology is superior to competitive personal protection loads with features that include:

· Proprietary bonding process-Welds lead and jacket together to work as a unit controlling expansion and providing superior retained weight.

· Hollow point-Works with the bonding process for outstanding performance through tough barriers and impact velocities/ranges.

· Jacket notching-Six segments help promote positive, consistent and programmed expansion at a variety of impact velocities.

· Copper alloy jacket-Contoured for maximum upset over a wide range of velocities/ranges.

· Nickel plated shellcase-Helps ensure positive gun function through smooth chambering and shellcase ejection.

And no, I am not affiliated with Winchester or anyone else but I do have several boxes for my own weapons.

Marlin 45 carbine
August 15, 2009, 07:32 PM
185gr Rem GS +P.

PAPACHUCK
August 15, 2009, 07:55 PM
Anything that is .45 cal and 230gr and has a hole in the front of it!

laktrash
August 15, 2009, 09:51 PM
Am I wrong in thinking 230 fmj will do the job and the most dependable especially in the compact 45's

DeepSouth
August 15, 2009, 10:12 PM
I like Remington Golden Saber 230 grain.

Me to. The ones I have dug out of all sorts of things have expanded very consistently. BUT the main reason I like them is because they shoot the tightest group in my gun, making for better shot placement. (which is of course the most important issue)

Deanimator
August 15, 2009, 10:17 PM
Am I wrong in thinking 230 fmj will do the job and the most dependable especially in the compact 45's
I'm not worried about telling any jury why I shot the guy who put me in immediate, reasonable fear of life and limb. There's NOTHING I can say to justify killing somebody's kid if I get a through and through on that same guy.

rondog
August 15, 2009, 10:25 PM
Am I wrong in thinking 230 fmj will do the job and the most dependable especially in the compact 45's

The 230 FMJ will certainly do the job, but the danger of one passing through the Bad Guy and hitting an innocent person is very real. It's more advisable to use aggressive self-defense hollowpoints that are designed to transfer more energy to the target and quicker. The JHP's expand quickly and stop quickly, equating to more "punch" to the BG, and safer for what/who-ever is behind him.

inSight-NEO
August 15, 2009, 10:57 PM
For my guns with barrels of 4" or less, I prefer Federal 185gr. JHP Hi Shok or Speer LE Gold Dot 185gr.; for those with longer barrels, the Federal 230gr. Hydra Shok (JHP) or Federal HST seem to do well.

On occasion, I will use Speer LE Gold Dot 200 +P (mainly for 4" barrels or less) with steel or polymer framed weapons.

Am I wrong in thinking 230 fmj will do the job and the most dependable especially in the compact 45's

When speaking of, say, the .45 ACP, FMJ ammo will certainly do some damage, but it seems more penetrative in nature vs. the JHPs. Hence, the wound channel will not be as devastating when entering the body vs. the JHP, which expands. In other words, less stopping power. After all, when it comes to HD, stopping an attacker is of paramount importance....killing him/her/they is not the primary objective.

In terms of compact weapons, its my belief that "lighter" bullets are somewhat better (example, using 185gr. vs. 230gr.) as the lighter bullets do not require as much barrel length in order to achieve maximum velocity/expansion, to put it rather crudely. Regarding your reliability question, I cant say. Though, I have heard that some older .45s preferred ball ammo (FMJ) to JHP, due to feeding inconsistencies...regardless of barrel length. These days, although some weapons certainly "prefer" various brands vs. others, the FMJ vs. JHP issue does not seem to be nearly as much of an issue as it once was.

Dr_2_B
August 16, 2009, 12:35 AM
Pretty much any of the new hollowpoints from the major manufacturers will be a good choice

I concur. In my opinion, the 45s are less dependent on the optimum bullet design than some other calibers. 9mm's for example can be excellent with the right ammo, but can be pretty poor with the wrong ammo. Most of the better 45 ammo will get the job done.

Again, IMHO.

Ken Rainey
August 16, 2009, 05:44 PM
Laktrash...Welcome.

I've got a 3 inch Kimber shortstroker that I run 230 FMJ in. I tried 230 Rangers - too much kick, 185 GoldDots - too much blast, and 185 SilverTips - a nice, easy to shoot load but I eventually decided to go with 230 FMJ due to the facts that I practiced with them, they're coming out of a two inch shorter barrel and are therefore running slower which will equate to less penetration which means less chance of overpenetration (which rarely happens even with a five inch barrel on solid shots anyway), and they're a lot easier to find at affordable prices. I think that all .45 auto pistols are designed to function with this cartridge, even tho some may still need tweaking to be 100% with them or any other cartridge...nonetheless, a standard pressure 230 grain FMJ is the ammunition which they are designed to function with.

I want the weight of the 230 FMJ to hopefully provide enough momentum to penetrate enough to hit something vital since it is traveling slower out of my Kimber's short barrel...this is why I switched off the SilverTips.

I like Brian Williams idea of the 230 LRN as well ... I use them for practice when I've had time to load and would be confident of their ability as well...the lead bullet might deform upon contact with bone, etc. adding to it's effectiveness...

Those of you concerned with over penetrating shots hitting innocent people should remember one of the rules of shooting is to know your backstop...if you know or believe that innocents are behind your advisary and you have no choice but to shoot, then I'd suggest aiming for the pelvic area or taking a knee and firing at an upward angle toward the chest area ... whichever would apply in the given situation as is possible. Be more concerned with the possibility of missed shots - in all situations.

nathan
August 16, 2009, 05:55 PM
Any 230 gr ammo be it FMJ or HP. If someone gets hit, its dead meat !

Clarence
August 16, 2009, 09:19 PM
I've never felt ill-equipped carrying hardball, but most of the time I carry Hydra Shocks.

MICHAEL T
August 17, 2009, 01:14 AM
Those of you concerned with over penetrating shots hitting innocent people should remember one of the rules of shooting is to know your backstop...if you know or believe that innocents are behind your advisary and you have no choice but to shoot, then I'd suggest aiming for the pelvic area or taking a knee and firing at an upward angle toward the chest area ... whichever would apply in the given situation as is possible. Be more concerned with the possibility of missed shots - in all situations


Also more round miss than hit in many shootings Those are a danger also. But their never talked about

I use Corbon DPX 185 in my Commanders and Compacts My 5" like the 200gr Corbon HP

tju1973
August 17, 2009, 01:21 AM
Not sure if they are the best, but I keep both SD mags loaded with Federal Hydrashocks-- They look cool, feed well in my XD, and passed the iced milkjug test-- but to tell you the truth, even a ball 230grn Blazer would probably put someone in a permanent hurt locker...IMHO...

Radio
August 17, 2009, 01:26 AM
Federal HST

mljdeckard
August 17, 2009, 11:29 AM
I also carry HSTs, and I believe that handguns are inferior in general, so you must give yourself every possible advantage.

Having said that, I would not feel undergunned with 230 gr hardball. I think that the real world difference between three .45 JHP wounds and three .45 FMJ wounds is negligible. I think that you would have to look from one extreme end of the spectrum (9mm FMJ) to the other (.45 premium JHP) to see any significant difference at all, and this difference can be made irrelevant with multiple good hits.

bri
August 17, 2009, 12:00 PM
Also more round miss than hit in many shootings Those are a danger also. But their never talked about

I use Corbon DPX 185 in my Commanders and Compacts My 5" like the 200gr Corbon HP
That's exactly what I was thinking. If there's a child or any other innocent person behind your target, you better be darn sure that you're not going to miss.

My 45 is always loaded with 230 fmj. I had a couple problems with corbons in the past failing to feed, so I stick with what works.

laktrash
August 17, 2009, 09:17 PM
Thanks for imput. Some of the compact 45's have been known to be finicky. mine have not been I've never had any issues with the 235 gr fmj thats been around for ever. I just wondered if I wasn't staying up with technolgy. I carry jhp in my 640. Overpenetration is not an issue with a ftf. But I also understand need to be concerned about surroundings,

sohcgt2
August 17, 2009, 09:57 PM
I've never had a problem related to any factory ammo but I carry Hornady TAP in everything that I use for personal defense.45acp and .40sw. The brass has a nickle coating that is supposed to improve feed reliability. As I said I've never had an issue with any factory load but for PD why take a chance?

ChCx2744
August 17, 2009, 09:58 PM
www.doubletapammo.com has some pretty powerful stuff...All my defensive ammo comes from there.

NJGarand
August 18, 2009, 02:53 PM
I have 2 mags of Glaser Blues 145Gr+P (one in the .45) and one with 230gr+P Golden Sabers.

Boberama
August 20, 2009, 07:57 AM
h
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PAPACHUCK
August 20, 2009, 08:13 AM
Dup.

PAPACHUCK
August 20, 2009, 08:17 AM
14rds of Winchester Ranger LE 230gr +P are riding in my XD45 right now.
I couldn't ask for more.

They shoot to POA in my gun, and have proven reliable in my gun.

ssyoumans
March 30, 2010, 10:23 AM
I would carry HST's if I could find them (it is what I carry in my 9mm), so I am loaded up with Speer Gold Dot 200gr +P.

jonboynumba1
March 30, 2010, 10:55 AM
I've always shot 230gr JHP usually I preffer Gold Dot or Hydrashocks but in a pinch any premium 230gr HP would do. I'd probably carry ball before I'd carry 185gr (prefference) but to me if you want to reduce what a .45 does well load light bullets in it! .45 is all about 230grains I've carried standard and plus P versions...I usually just carry standard velocity HP's unless I'm in the woods. I'm thinking of trying the 230 +p Hornady XTP factory load as I could easily duplicate it with handloads (it's pretty close to what I load anyway)...I normally load XTP's in 200+P for woods walking (stout load of Unique) deffense load is a moderate load (not light or hot) with 230gr XTP and my target load is a powderpuff with OT 200gr lead SWC's ...but I usually carry factory 230gr HP's in town (and 90% of the time) for legal reasons.

I've heard in compact guns that staying standard velocity and heavier bullets is usually smart as they are usually geared to work best zeroed around 230gr ball and slide velocity can climb high enough to cause problems in some compact guns...of course like everything else in life...you gotta try it in your gun...and everyone has their own opinion. To me anywhere in the 850-900FPS range w/ 230gr HP's out of a (4" bbl especially) is just about ideal enough without hot rodding it...and you get fairly quick followups. just find something that shoots well in your gun in 230gr and you can't go wrong...gotta love the .45 for that reason...much pickier about my 9 and 40 choices!

SSN Vet
March 30, 2010, 11:44 AM
I like Remington Golden Saber 230 grain.

my pick as well.... they feed just as reliably as ball and are in the top tier performance wise with Gold Dots, etc...

if you're going to shoot many +P rounds through your pistol, you may want to consider stiffer recoil springs.

+P in .45 ACT is quite "lively"

Kingofthehill
March 30, 2010, 12:03 PM
Corbon DPX
PMC StarFire
Hornady Tap's

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