[ainokea]

I'm just curious why there aren't many Sigs or HKs or Berettas used in production class in major matches? Seems the majority have been Glock 34s M&Ps or XDs. Does HK have sponsored shooters like S&W, GLock, and Springfield.

[Jim Watson]

The usual reason is consistent trigger pull. It is easier to learn one trigger even if it is a little mushy than to master the DA-SA transition. Not that it is impossible, but a lot of people think it is or do not want to go to the trouble. I have done ok with a CZ75 and a P226 but a H&K USP was something I could not get along with.

[Sam1911]

I'll take Jim's comment to the next level. It's because the shooters at the top of their games have (taken all together) tried every reasonable combination of gun, cartridge, holster, etc., and they've had almost half a century of competition by now in which to boil down what features will get them the highest ratio of accurate hits to time spent. When 97% of the best shooters in any given division are choosing one of 3 or 4 gun designs, the rest of the pack will figure they're on to something and go buy their own Glocks, M&Ps, and xDs.

For all of our personal affection for Sigs, Berettas, CZs, Rugers, old school S&W autos, Taurus', Bersas, H&Ks, Styers, Stoegers, etc., etc. -- and for all our debating about which trigger cycles most smoothly and breaks cleanest, which decocker works best, and whether we prefer to shoot a polymer or alloy or all steel gun and any other debate we could come up with -- those guys are simply devoting their lives to making the fastest accurate hits possible, and choosing whatever platform enables them to do it.

Sure, there's a lot of corporate sponsorship. But if those corporate sponsors can't field a gun that is competative at the highest level, you won't see their guns on the field. Case in point? Ruger. Ruger heavily sponsors almost every major IDPA match I shoot. I've now seen ONE Ruger shot in IDPA competition. (A GP-100, oddly enough!) They support us and keep their name prominantly on our match buletins and t-shirts, but they don't produce a gun that can compete with an xD/Glock/M&P so their advertizing has always struck me as a little ironic.

There's a kind of a lesson there. We all have our preferences for what guns we like to look at and enjoy shooting for fun. If we were all as concerned as we sometimes claim to be about the ultimate best gun for self-defense, we'd probably sell our SIGs, Walthers, Berettas, Rugers, etc. and go buy some version of what the Master and Grand-Master class shooters use.

In the end, all that will matter is how accurate were your shots and how fast you got them on target.

My $0.02.

-Sam

[ChristopherG]

Well stated, Sam. The only caveat I would add is that some competitive gun choices are shaped or shaded by the rules of particular games--rules about size or weight or capacity or whatever--that might not be relevant to choosing a gun for other, non-game-rule-governed pursuits. But by and large, I agree. Look to the consensus of competitors to see what really works; and then ask yourself what your reasoning is for making a different choice.

That said, I do think there at least one DA/SA gun has a significant presence in production, statistically--the CZ, which Jim appropriately mentions. Why a good many CZs and not many of the other choices mentioned by the OP? I dunno; but my basic instinct is to suppose, with Sam, that there is an answer.

[ainokea]

I forgot about the DA to SA transition. I usually go back and forth between a Glock 34 and CZ SP01. You both brought up very good points, i've never thought of those. I did see a national match on Sighting In where someone was using a Beretta.

[Sam1911]

I did see a national match on Sighting In where someone was using a Beretta.

Oh sure! I've seen a guy shooting a Beretta Steel 1 at Nationals (the only one I've ever seen, anywhere), cool looking Tanfoglios, Sigs, and lots of other odd and interesting guns. If the shooter has put in the practice to make it really run, they can do all right. Heck, this year I took Division Champion in Enhanced Service Revolver at a state match shooting a 629 and .44 Specials! (Not that I was all that competitive...not many other wheel-gun guys showed up.)

But, when you look at the list of winners, the handguns they chose to shoot are not a very diverse lot.

What made me really start to look at this was watching Dave Olhasso win CDP Division Champion at last year's IDPA Nationals. CDP is the .45 Auto class. Totally dominated by 1911s. Dave won it handily, shooting a S&W M&P!

While there is infinite variety in human beings, and each may have a list of their own preferences when it comes to a favorite handgun, when you look at Glocks, M&Ps, and xDs, you can make a strong case that manufacturers have zeroed in on the ergonomics and features that make a pistol as close to perfect for the greatest number of people.

When the frames, slides, barrels, triggers, and internals are all, by necessity, practically identical to their competitors' models, one wonders how they will be able to further refine their designs and continue in business without infringing each other's patents.

-Sam

[Hk Dan]

I think a big issue is the limited offerings of aftermarket equipment for those models. E.g. if you want a magwell for an HK USP it's going to cost you $200 and another couple of bills for the specialty magazines you have to use with it.

If they were more popular, there would be more accessories, and if there were more accessories, they'd be more popular.

[Sam1911]

think a big issue is the limited offerings of aftermarket equipment for those models. ...If they were more popular, there would be more accessories, and if there were more accessories, they'd be more popular.

Maybe, a little. But by the same logic, if an H&K USP could really be competitive at the upper levels, the market for those accessories would exist and someone would be making them by the tractor-trailer load.

Said another way...the aftermarket equipment to make a USP similar enough to a Glock/xD/M&P to be competitive doesn't exist, so no one shoots them.

If the folks shooting the fastest times with the best hits had found that they could shave a second off their score buy buying an expensive H&K and throwing more money at it, they most certainly would have. But that obviously didn't happen.

(In the case of the H&K it is undoubtedly primarily the fault of the DA/SA or whichever non-striker-fired version of trigger, combined with non-optimal ergonomics.)

-Sam

[Hoser]

If they were more popular, there would be more accessories, and if there were more accessories, they'd be more popular.

And if you made the slide about two pounds lighter and moved the bore a few inches lower that would also help...

[Hk Dan]

<chuckles> You guys are right.

I started my USPSA career with a USP 40. I actually have the records of the times in several drills, that against various other handguns. The USP had 'em hands down for mag changes, but beyond that, it just wasn't in the running.

I called Bruce Gray about a USP trigger job. He explained what he'd do and for how much. It defeated every safety on the gun, but took it to 2 pounds with no reset. he called it a "World Beater". I asked what he shoots and he told me "Brazos..." I reckon it's a world beater as long as there are no Brazos there...<g>

[wilkersk]

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