I'll never buy another gun from Bill Ruger... But

Back when the assaut weapons ban was being proposed Bill Ruger said:

"No honest man needs more than a ten shot magizine."

And I said: I will never buy another gun from Bill Ruger.

Bill is dead and buried now. Yesterday I handled the new Ruger AR with a gas piston system and 30 round magazine. That is when I made the realization that I was released from my oath upon Bill Rugers death.

Unfortunately, Bill fell into the hands of the political machine, but this is all water under the bridge now that he's dead. Rugers are fine, fine weapons. I am going to purchase a Ruger LCR for CC in the coming weeks.

Free at last..

YEP--! Ol BILLS gone --A new light is shining at the Ruger factory--I see they will now allow us Pathetic civilians to buy there precious HI Cap mags - formerly reserved for the eleatest Black booted Thuggs !
I have always like there products --I too feel free to indulge in there goodies once again[[Smith and Wesson too!]]

At least someone's put that idiotic grudge to rest. Good work, gang.

It's a shame a lot of people still hold that grudge.

Originally Posted by: 9mm+

Unfortunately, Bill fell into the hands of the political machine, but this is all water under the bridge now that he's dead. Rugers are fine, fine weapons. I am going to purchase a Ruger LCR for CC in the coming weeks


well, he didnt fall into it so much as embrace it to save his own rifle from being put on 'the list' thus throwing us under the bus.

I cant blame people for holding grudges but now hes dead and gone and Ruger appears...to finally, be embracing us lest they get Zumbo'd

Good point, One-Time...best news is that we can all move on now (whew). I guess Rugers may be flying off the shelves (it's no coincidence that the Ruger LCR is hard to find...sigh...)

Ive been tempted by their new Mini 14s w/ all the 'evil' features myself, always wanted a Mini-14 GB type!

I have a LCP that I carry most days, and a 10/22 that I plink with quite often.

I have no interest in the Ruger AR though - I'd take a Daniel Defense, Colt, LMT, or Noveske over the Ruger any day.

Yes, we must walk a mile in another's shoes to understand......and we can't.

Holding grudges and refusing to buy good products is truly cutting off your nose to spite your face. It's a lose/lose situation. Self destructive......and harming others, too.

Forgiving is truly an act that helps both parties......a win/win.

'sides, they started showing the love with an eighteen shot SR9, long before the NEW (yawn) Ruger AR.

(C'mon, collapsing stock Mini-14 with 30-round mag. No need for flash hiders or the ebil bayonet lugs.)

Forgiving is truly an act that helps both parties......a win/win.

Like the way most folks here feel about Pay Pal??

It's a shame a lot of people still hold that grudge.
I never forget and I seldom forgive but since Bill the turncoat is gone I buy Rugers.
Now S&W on the other hand.:)

William Ruger was one of the great firearms geniuses of the 20th century. He understood the American shooter and gave him what he wanted, probably better than anyone else ever has.

I suppose I can understand the relative handful of malcontents that refuse/d to buy Rugers because they thought they needed dozens of rounds in a gun. Thankfully, the rest of us bought Rugers because they were and are great guns, and the company flourished.

Which now allows the malcontents to celebrate the death of a good man and buy his guns that hold dozens of rounds.

I suppose I can understand the relative handful of malcontents that refuse/d to buy Rugers because they thought they needed dozens of rounds in a gun. Thankfully, the rest of us bought Rugers because they were and are great guns, and the company flourished.
As a longtime owner of a mini-14 and an admirer of Rugers in general, I'd have to say that it's not Mr. Ruger's opinion on mag capacity that bothered me, so much as his backing of legislation to force his magazine-capacity opinions on others, or else. That's a little different.

That said, I really like the SR-556, and I'd like to own one someday. I think the new mini-14's are also an improvement, and it's nice to see Ruger finally selling mini's with over-5-round magazines. Five rounds was ridiculous for a rifle intended for an all-purpose role.

I guess I should stop listening to Toby Keith since he supported Barack Obama for president.

Although the man said something insulting to the gun community, (and who knows, maybe he really did feel that way) when I hear Ruger I still think of the only major gun manufacturer I know of that will still offer factory warranty service on their machineguns owned by us "honest men".

http://www.modelguns.co.uk/images/ac556g.jpg
P.S. that's not mine, just a picture I found. But someday...sigh...

i am soon gonna be a proud owner of a Ruger SR9.. next month!

It's a shame a lot of people still hold that grudge.

Nonsense: It's a shame we don't hold our grudges longer against politicians and the kind of thinking that made Bill Ruger make that statement (and make his bed with politicians) to begin with. Forgiveness is for those who ask for it. I don't recall Bill Ruger ever retracting his statement or hearing of a public apology. He obviously meant what he said and I completely whole heartedly disagree with him. The company Strum Ruger and Co make good firearms no doubt so do a lot of constitutionally challenged companies. For those of you who waited till Bill was dead before ever owning a Ruger...I'm right there with you.

So, anyway. How did the Ruger compare in weight to the Sig?

The only Ruger weapon I really want is the old 3-screw .357 Blackhawk that I used to own, and sold way too cheap. But that was a lotta years ago. I have nothing against the company or their products, just don't have any desire for any.

Wouldnt it be ironic if Ruger makes their AR and does NOT include a 10rd mag/no flash suppressor/fixed stock version? lol

Holding grudges and refusing to buy good products is truly cutting off your nose to spite your face. It's a lose/lose situation. Self destructive......and harming others, too.

Horse manure.

I refused to buy a POS named the Mini 14/ Ranch rifle becasue it was inaccurate. Ruger himself refused to provide a good product in that, hi cap mags for it and the 1991 Palma rifles. He showed his contempt for the average gunowner by supporting the AWB and Brady. Then he tried to buy forgiveness from the NRA afterward. All this done in the name of making a name for himself and self preservation.

Shooters didn't turn their backs on William Ruger, he turned his back on us.

Now that the old fart's gone I now have a Mark III 22/45, a 10/22, 2 GP100's and a Blackhawk in .45 Colt, along with 100 shares of RGR that's doubled in value since I bought it. That's the true win/win.

From the main THR page all you can see of this thread's title when its at the top is "I'll never buy another gun..." I saw that and got scared for a second...

The Bill Ruger grudge is often discussed here and I guess I feel that he made a decision, and a bad one, that decision has now been reversed by his death and the new standard cap mags.

In other news, I heard a radio ad today that an old plot of land formerly owned by Bill Ruger can now be purchased in 36 acre plots

http://www.dlranchproperties.com/

How cool would it be to make one of those plots the next knobb creek.

I never forget and I seldom forgive but since Bill the turncoat is gone I buy Rugers.
Now S&W on the other hand.

What about S&W?

If it is ok to buy Rugers again because Bill is gone, it is ok to buy S&W because they are now american owned and no longer owned by the brits who caved.

Lessee: "Don't buy a Ruger because Bill Ruger cooperated with Bad Government."

Okay. Don't buy a Porsche, a Volkswagen, a Mercedes, or a BMW. Don't buy a Honda car or motorcycle. Don't buy a Nissan. Don't buy a Fiat--or a Ferrari. After all, the owners of those corporations cooperated with Hitler, Tojo and Mussolini.

If you're against the wars in the Balkans, Iraq or Afghanistan, don't buy products from GM, Ford, Chrysler, Raytheon, a thousand other corporations--and make sure you never ride in a Boeing aircraft.

Oh, and don't buy anything made in China. Shun AKs and variants, Mausers, and don't collect those evil Lugers.

Pardon me. I gotta go :barf:.

I haven't bought a full size 1911 yet. I've got a 4" and a 3" so far. I'm waiting to see if Ruger will come out with a 1911 before I make my choice.

Woody

Art,

There is something to be said by voicing your opinion with your purchases. Lack of support from advertisers comes from this phenomenon.

Lack of sales by Smith and Wesson as a consequence of its decision to capitulate to Clinton's blackmail, though never admitted, probably contributed to the decision of its British owners to sell S&W to a US firm. S&W is doing much, much better. You have to admit Ruger is doing much better and doing a lot more innovating as well since the passing of Bill Ruger. It's all market forces. Apparently, opinions weigh fairly heavily upon those market forces - in a free economy, that is!

I'll be the first to applaud these forces. Look at the innovation and supply-meeting-the-demand that has come about as a result. I wouldn't have my LCP right now if it weren't for the chain of events that brought it about.

Respectfully, Woody

If Mr. Ford said only a fool needs 400 HP would you not buy a Ford ever again? Mr. Ruger is correct BTW.

Did you buy the AR then?

Still having trouble buying rugers.

They manufacture and sell guns...several that I like. A plus...made in American.

That is all I need to know to buy one. Boycotting a gun company because you are pro-gun makes little sense...to me.

The next gun I buy will probably be a Ruger, for no other reason than they have a product that I want/like/"need" at a price that makes sense...a GP100.

If S&W made an equivelent gun for under $800 I'd consider it but as far as I can tell they don't (I haven't started shopping hard yet so we'll see).

Forgiving is truly an act that helps both parties......a win/win.

Really! Well, I can't say I would forgive anyone that treads on the Constitution of the United States of America.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe that Calif. is the abbreviation for Communists Against Living In Freedom.

I believe that Calif. is the abbreviation for Communists Against Living In Freedom.

I always thought that was "Come And Live In Florida"

Bill Ruger was caught between closing his magazine using firearms factories or continuing to make guns limited to 10 rd magazines. He decided in favor of his employees. I am sure all of you high principled folks would have not buckled to Govt. pressure and put your factory workers on the streets.
Pragmatism is sometime the right course of action. jmho

Mr. Ruger is correct BTW
You're referring to "No honest man needs more than ten rounds"? Rather an incendiary comment here, no?

An honest man needs no more than 200HP in an automobile. Anything above that should be strictly controlled, not allowed into the hands of lowly subjects. Yes??

Objectively, though, you are wrong. Your argument is one based on emotion, not fact or statistics. I've read studies that show that magazine capacity is very rarely a factor in crime, or even self defense for that matter.

I know many hunters and owners of fine sporting firearms who are not supporters of the right to keep and bear arms. They tend to be rather arrogant and condescending, looking down their noses at the lowly rabble that own less refined hardware. They see no use whatsoever for guns that resemble military weapons and would generally love to see them banned.

This forum tends to have the most diverse crowd of gun owners amongst any forum I've read. We have all types here, and it's interesting to read all perspectives. Listening only to those that agree with you tends to warp your perspective.

I see Ruger apologists have joined Democrats as a protected class at THR. :rolleyes:

In lieu of my true feelings let me just say it is contemptible to see people on a pro-gun forum defend a man who made it clear he had no problem seeing American citizens thrown in jail for possessing an eleven round magazine.

If there was ever to be a face associated to the term Tool, it would be Bill Ruger's.

I see Ruger apologists have joined Democrats as a protected class at THR. :rolleyes:

In lieu of my true feelings let me just say it is contemptible to see people on a pro-gun forum defend a man who made it clear he had no problem seeing American citizens thrown in jail for possessing an eleven round magazine.
So you'd abrogate our First Amendment rights?

Very logical.

Bill Ruger was caught between closing his magazine using firearms factories or continuing to make guns limited to 10 rd magazines. He decided in favor of his employees. I am sure all of you high principled folks would have not buckled to Govt. pressure and put your factory workers on the streets.
Pragmatism is sometime the right course of action. jmho

More horse manure.

So how many other makers of semiauto hi cap firearms opposed Brady/AWB and went out of business, putting workers on the streets during the AWB? That would be NONE.

He supported Brady and the AWB to keep the Mini/Ranch rifle off the list and to gain preference for government firearms contracts. That's it. !0 round clips was his personal bias (or contempt) against regular gun owners well before the AWB.

Lessee: "Don't buy a Ruger because Bill Ruger cooperated with Bad Government."


No Art, Bill Ruger was screwing gunowners long before Brady/AWB. He had a hugely inflated ego regarding his products and didn't really care about customer feedback. After he started catching hell about his support for AWB/Brady he thought he could buy us bread and circuses by selling overpriced NRA commemoratives and skimming a part to the NRA.

My take on the Ruger letter was that Bill Ruger's beloved Mini-14 had been used in several shootings by terrorists, radicals, etc. The Mini-14 was made so well that it seemed to be a favorite weapon of this lot.

What Bill Ruger did was to deflect the blame from the gun to the magazine. I truly don't think Bill RUger felt this way, he was just doing what he could do to keep his business going.

Did he go about things in the wrong way, probably? I personally think that the people who use the firearms for no good are to blame, the Mini-14 was just a tool for that.

I personally own 3 Rugers. A 10/22, a Mini-14, and an SR9. I really love the way they all shoot. Ruger is know for reliable cost effective firearms for the average guy.

I am not seeing how Bill Ruger himself treaded upon the constitution by selling 5 and 10 round magazines. The man made a free choice to do something that was and is not popular and made statement that were not popular.

As far as treading on the constitution, our much beloved Republican party did that in a much more active way by supporting the AWB...remember is was Bush 41 that did that.

All Bill Ruger did was over-react to the climate of the day. If somebody had started a thread that said "Did Bill Ruger over-react", all the Ruger haters would have said the same thing (break even there) and everybody else, like me who would still buy one, would probably just say "sure, he over-reacted".

I am looking forward to buying my next gun and I think it's going to be a Ruger. Now of course when I do, I won't be buying it from Bill Ruger because well, you know, he's deceased. So as far as that goes, nobody is buying anything from Bill Ruger anymore.

I am looking forward to buying my next gun and I think it's going to be a Ruger.

Yep, same here. I've got my eye on that LCR snubby...

DougDubya: So you'd abrogate our First Amendment rights?

If you’re referencing my remark about Ruger apologists being a protected class, I made it because the Mods yanked my post stating my feelings about Bill and his buddies- apparently, like those of Democrats, Ruger stooges’ feelings are easily bruised, and the Mommy-Mods have to protect you. Nobody is espousing abrogating your right to laud a guy who championed abrogation of Americans’ Second Amendment rights. :rolleyes:

As far as treading on the constitution, our much beloved Republican party did that in a much more active way by supporting the AWB...remember is was Bush 41 that did that.

Bill Clinton signed that into law with a Democrat majority in both houses. The Democrat Party lost both houses as a result.

Woody

Any compromise with evil is still evil. Bill chose to compromise and I chose to buy guns elsewhere. Those conditions have changed now.

Did you buy the AR?

Planning to?

If Mr. Ford said only a fool needs 400 HP would you not buy a Ford ever again? Mr. Ruger is correct BTW.
Mr. Ruger didn't say 40 rounds, he said 10. 400hp is well above that of most cars, but ten rounds is well below that of most 9mm's and small- to intermediate-caliber rifles.

If if Ford said only criminals and drunk drivers need more than 100hp, and refused to sell cars with more than 100hp to anyone but the government, then no, I wouldn't buy a Ford; I'd go buy something with a reasonable amount of power.

I respect him as a firearms designer (and most Rugers are good guns), but he was flat wrong to support Federal magazine capacity restrictions, especially one set so ridiculously low.

"No honest man needs to own a magazine holding more than ten rounds." is an answer to the wrong question. The answer to the right question is, "No honest government needs to ban magazines holding more than ten rounds."

No one needs it should is never be a legitimate reason for a law. The questions is always, does the government need it? And equally important, is it a legitimate need?

I'll try to clarify it, if it wasn't clear in my first post. It's a shame that there are folks who still hold grudge against Ruger (the company), and will not buy any Ruger products, when Ruger (Bill, the man) is long dead and gone. I can understand totally, if the man is still in charge, but, come on, now, he has turned to dust. Get over it, but I suppose you won't, and that's your right and your choice. I just think it's silly. And that's jmho. Have a great day.

If you’re referencing my remark about Ruger apologists being a protected class, I made it because the Mods yanked my post stating my feelings about Bill and his buddies- apparently, like those of Democrats, Ruger stooges’ feelings are easily bruised, and the Mommy-Mods have to protect you. Nobody is espousing abrogating your right to laud a guy who championed abrogation of Americans’ Second Amendment rights. :rolleyes:
That was what I had referenced. And I'm not necessarily "lauding" him. I'm just saying HE'S DEAD! Put a sock in it!

You going to pour hate on Ronald Reagan for pushing through a law abrogating open carry in direct defiance of the Second Amendment's "shall not be infringed."?

How about George W. Bush's vow to sign on an indefinite extension of the AWB?

Reagan dropped ALOT in my respect file for that taking of rights.
George W. Bush lost all of that for being a drunk driver, and disappeared into the negative for extending Bill Clinton's legacy, then producing the most bloated expansion of government with Homeland Security and the PATRIOT Act's abrogation of even more basic rights like freedom from illegal search and seizure and the guarantee of a right to fair and impartial trial.

Not only is Ruger dead, so too is the AWB, but you wouldn't know that by reading the posts of people who want to resurrect both just to hang them again.:rolleyes:

Bill was a gun guru, but he was also a business man. I am not saying he was right, but he bet on the winds of gun control going a certain way. He hedged his company a certain way and was wrong.

I still thank Bill for what he did firearm wise-- and as he has passed, I have not any issues with Sturm-Ruger these days...Heck, I have more of an issue with Colt's lack of supporting the public with guns and concentrating on LEO/Military contracts...and SW declining quality of weapons, but not lowering their prices.

Nope, Ruger still makes good guns.

IMHO

So why does someone need a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds? I'm asking because I don't. I have an AR and 2 10 rounds mags and another with a singleshot feedramp. I'm sure there are some reasons for this, but I don't need one. I only shoot at the range. 2 10 rounders is just fine.

Also, didn't smith piss off people some years ago for agreeing with the AWB. I thought that was worse from what I remember in my heart, but not in the details.

If you feel you need 30 50 round mags, by all means go for it, but for me, I'm good with what I have.

So why does someone need a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds? I'm asking because I don't. I have an AR and 2 10 rounds mags and another with a singleshot feedramp. I'm sure there are some reasons for this, but I don't need one. I only shoot at the range. 2 10 rounders is just fine.

Also, didn't smith piss off people some years ago for agreeing with the AWB. I thought that was worse from what I remember in my heart, but not in the details.

If you feel you need 30 50 round mags, by all means go for it, but for me, I'm good with what I have.
If all you do with a particular firearm is punch paper slowfire from a bench on a static range, then you wouldn't necessarily need over-10-round magazines, no.

The majority of American gun owners own guns for defensive as well as recreational purposes, though, and for a defensive gun, having reserve magazine capacity is a good thing. There is no penalty for leaving unfired ammunition in the magazine, but there is a big penalty for running out early.

Your typical LEO carries 15+ rounds in the gun and 30+ rounds available for instant reload on the duty belt, and more than that if rifle equipped; however, most of us "civilians" don't sleep in web gear, so we won't have that luxury in a pinch. If I or my wife have to use a gun defensively in a home setting, she or I will almost certainly meet the threat with only the ammunition in the gun; once that's out, you have nothing more than a club. My wife's Glock holds 15+1, and my AK holds 20+1; that's enough to shoot six or eight rounds and not be defenseless after.

FWIW, standard capacity is more like 13-18 rounds for pistols and 20-30 rounds for rifles, not 50.

I also shoot IDPA/IPSC style rifle, and shoot recreationally. For me, nothing screws up the zen of shooting like having to constantly reload paramecium-sized magazines. I prefer to load magazines at home and spend my range time shooting. If you prefer differently, I have absolutely no problem with that, but I choose traditional 20's and 30's and wish to retain that choice.

Bill shafted the men who made him rich and I did not buy another ruger till he was worm dirt.

So why does someone need a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds? I'm asking because I don't. I have an AR and 2 10 rounds mags and another with a singleshot feedramp. I'm sure there are some reasons for this, but I don't need one. I only shoot at the range. 2 10 rounders is just fine.

Also, didn't smith piss off people some years ago for agreeing with the AWB. I thought that was worse from what I remember in my heart, but not in the details.

If you feel you need 30 50 round mags, by all means go for it, but for me, I'm good with what I have.
Why do you "need" anything more than a single-shot gun? I'm asking because I don't. I'm perfectly happy with my one-round rifle, and I only shoot at the range once a year.

Yeah, S&W pissed folks off at that time. They were owned by some British company, and you know how the Brits are about guns. But, that was then, and I don't believe S&W is British-owned any longer.

DougDubya: You going to pour hate on Ronald Reagan for pushing through a law abrogating open carry in direct defiance of the Second Amendment's "shall not be infringed."?

Actually, I hate Reagan because he stabbed gun-owners in the back by standing with the Bradys in support of an arbitrary waiting period in 1991.

DougDubya:Reagan dropped… [non-sequitur moronic rant redacted]…and impartial trial.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/papabill.html

This article is certainly no apology for Ruger. However, it does make a point of mentioning that Ruger's original proposal would have set the magazine limit at 15 rounds, not ten. It's only coincidental that 15 rounds was the existing standard for hand-guns, I'm sure.

If you'll also note when Ruger became involved, you'll see that a number of YEARS passed between his original letter, and what became the AWB.

It's also interesting that both SAAMI and the NSSF both also wrote position papers advocating a limit on magazine capacity, rather than on weapons. This was also Ruger's original policy papers recommendations.

Check the membership that signed those position papers.

As usual. apologists for the shooting fraternity accuse Ruger of single-handedly enabling the 1994 AWB, even though the largest firearms companies advocated the same thing, years earlier.

It's easy to blame a scape-goat for our own failures. Takes little intelligence, and makes the feel-good quotient jump higher. The AWB is gone, Ruger is dead, and S&W has recanted. Yet, we still see California with an AWB, and many other states with magazine capacity restrictions well below what WAS advocated. Who is to blame for those on-going problems? Perhaps US?

I agree. We are complacent (me included). And it is the complacent who lose their rights.

I wish they would make high cap mags for the Mini 30. :(

jpwilly and jaholder, hear, hear; Amen; +1, all that.

HOWEVER, I guess I too can be free at last - not because Bill is dead - that has little or nothing to do with the corporate beliefs and attitudes that lingered and for which apology was never forthcoming. BUT, since the company gave a cool $mil to the NRA Museum, AND came out with a bona fide EBR from which they cannot retract and rail against "evil guns" any more, AND make very small concealable guns for CCW, AND appear to have *somewhat* rounded a corner with respect to corporate culture, I suppose I can forget - not really forgive - but forget enough to buy a Ruger - gonna start slow however, with a used one. I've been proudly Ruger-free since 1994, but I may have to get a Blackhawk or Redhawk.

It's only coincidental that 15 rounds was the existing standard for hand-guns, I'm sure.

No, what was coincidental was that Beretta and HK and Glock held 17 rounds and were killing Rugers in the marketplace which only held 15 rounds or less - which is why Bill championed this idea. Just greed, laziness, sloth, and downright evil featherbedding to get ahead in the marketplace.

Bill Ruger shot himself, well, at least in the toe. The number of people who found Ruger and his company "distatesful" for that time frame was no small number. SRC could have sold a LOT more guns has Bill Sr. kept his opinions to himself. What exactly he accomplished, I cannot say. They didn't garner big police or military contracts. At the time, when Ruger stated that we didn't need guns with more than 10 rounds, he personally owned registered machineguns of all kinds. Hypocritical. I don't like that in a man, and I didn't like the compromise, and the "ammunition" he gave to the antigunners, who probably really enjoyed using a gun company owners statement to THEIR advantage. I have bought exactly two Rugers, both only in the last 6 months, and none others since 1994, or there-abouts, when he made that statement. Fine, he's gone, buy Rugers. But let's not EVER forget the damage that can be done by a gun industry figurehead by making a lame statement, or comporomising like THAT.

You would have to hire James Van Praagh to do the transfer if you wanted to buy a gun from Bill Ruger these days.

Actually, I hate Reagan because he stabbed gun-owners in the back by standing with the Bradys in support of an arbitrary waiting period in 1991.
Oh yeah, that too.

But how is Reagan's violation of Second Amendment rights any less heinous than Ruger's?

How is Bush 42's vow to keep the AWB alive any less wrong?

Let's not forget Reagan's position when he stabbed us in the back. Either way he went on the bills, we were getting stabbed, in retrospect. He did some good AND some bad, but - like with Ruger's passing and the changing climates - it's history.

All I can say badly about Ruger now is that they still do not offer a single gun that I feel is worth any of *my* money compared to others on the market.

What I know for sure is that Bill Ruger is dead, buried and unresurrected. He did a lot of good for the shooting world, and he said some stupid stuff.

But mostly, he's dead. Hard for a dead guy to make guns. So if folks want to go to his grave and make wee-wee, have at it. Have fun. I really, really don't care.

Still, if you're gonna shun a product because of the opinions of the maker(s), don't be hypocritical about other stuff from similar makers. Yeah, Ruger ran his mouth. But the names I listed in my first post were complicit in the murders of millions of innocent people. I think there's a modicum of difference.

What about S&W?

If it is ok to buy Rugers again because Bill is gone, it is ok to buy S&W because they are now american owned and no longer owned by the brits who caved.
I don't buy (new) S&W guns because of the ugly, unnecessary, PC, internal lock.
I love S&W guns and buy every good deal I find on pre lock J and K Frames.

You can't fight every battle, but you need to draw the line somewhere, so my line is not buying new S&W guns until they stop pandering to the anti gun crowd with that lock.



But sometimes even the best intentions have to be suspended, like a couple weeks ago when I had the opportunity to buy a new $4,000 S&W 500 for $475.:D

The people that defaced this gun with that ugly hole should be horse whipped.:(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Smith500.jpg

what difference does it make if there is 10 rounds or 30 rounds? and what does honesty have anything to do with magazine size? there are lots of responsible owners out there and only the few bad ones are the ones that make the impression on these gun laws.

Actually, I hate Reagan because he stabbed gun-owners in the back by standing with the Bradys in support of an arbitrary waiting period in 1991.


Honest Question: Did Reagan _really_ believe this, or could it have been the Alzheimer's and / or did Nancy have a hand in this?

Quote:
"From the main THR page all you can see of this thread's title when its at the top is "I'll never buy another gun..." I saw that and got scared for a second..."


Me too........!!!

Well since hunting deer or any other critter only requires one shot at a time I would ask what a larger clip is for. I was at a gun show once and this guy was selling bigger clips for semi auto rifles and he was saying that when hunting leave the truck with a 5 shot clip and then once out in the bush switch over to the larger clip in case you run into something when hunting. I had to just shake my head and walk away as what could anybody possibly run into in the bush anywhere in North America that required a big clip for.
By the way I figured finding somebodys pot plantation was a myth until a couple of weeks ago on one of my wanderings in the bush and I actually found one. Sort of weirded me out that one myth actually got proven right.

Don't buy a Honda car or motorcycle.

Just to correct an error above, Soichiro Honda spent WWII as an employee managing car plant for a small company, same as he was doing before the war. He had never served in the Japanese military, and spent the 20 and 30s in automobile racing until badly injured doing so.

After WWII, he started "Honda Motors" making powered bicycles run by cast-off surplus military radio generators. That is where "Honda" started.

Honda Motor Company has no war-guilt associated with it whatsoever - and it is partly that and partly its engineering and production genius, instilled by a truly great engineer and peace-loving, sporting gentleman that make me a fan of Honda. I am a proud owner of many of its products, some dating back to the 60s. So I just wanted to correct that.

Oro, whether or not Mr. Honda served, or Krupp served, or Ferdinand Porsche served: That's irrelevant. They made war materiel and had their political views, with, I presume, loyalty to their countries for all that those countries indeed had murderous leadership.

(I know of Honda's racing. I did the sports car racing deal from around 1956 until 1980 when I got into IPSC. Messed around with this sort of critter: http://www.davewolin.com/f5000.htm )

That was then, this is now, and I've owned Hondas and VWs, Porsches and Toyotas. Mausers, for that matter. As with my Rugers, they've been good products which have met my needs.

Drifting somewhat, if Bill Ruger had been regularly on TV with some silly message, I might well view the whole deal in a different manner. As it was, his words had no impact on the legislation. As near as I can tell, he was trying to keep the idiots from inside the Beltway from requiring five-round mags or maybe even single-shot only. Too many people think elected officials are rational creatures. Dunno why, given what we're regularly told by TPTB.

Drifting somewhat, if Bill Ruger had been regularly on TV with some silly message, I might well view the whole deal in a different manner. As it was, his words had no impact on the legislation. As near as I can tell, he was trying to keep the idiots from inside the Beltway from requiring five-round mags or maybe even single-shot only. Too many people think elected officials are rational creatures. Dunno why, given what we're regularly told by TPTB.

That's why I never held it that Bill Ruger threw America under the bus. And if he was so against normal capacity magazines, why not make his P89 a single-stack? Why sell handguns that could take 15 round magazines ANYWAY? Why even sell the Mini-14 which STILL could take aftermarket magazines?

Nothing wrong w/ grudges, especially against companies that only 'sorta' support the 2A

If Sarah Brady came out w/ the best AR ever made w/ a bajillion round magazine i would never buy form her, because Id be supporting the destruction of the 2A

Same goes for gun companies

I tend to agree with Art on the original Bill Ruger statements. I never really held those against him then or now. Times change. Who would have thought 20 years ago that AR's would be so universally popular? As far as choice of products to manufacture, Bill Ruger ran his company the way he believed it should be run based on his perception of the market.

I had to just shake my head and walk away as what could anybody possibly run into in the bush anywhere in North America that required a big clip for.

The pack of about 10 or 12 feral dogs that appeared out of the woods snarling and snapping as I came up on my downed deer was enough to convince me I needed more ammo.

I had to just shake my head and walk away as what could anybody possibly run into in the bush anywhere in North America that required a big clip for.
looks like you had to sneak in a bigger magazine into the woods?? bad idea. unless you just choose not to. it's kinda dumb to break the law but again some of these laws are dumb, like the magazine one. it makes no difference 5 round or a c beta. one shot, one kill? how about ten shots, ten kills? and different? here in wisconsin we don't have a magazine capacity for most game, except for waterfowl and some birds. i don't get the 3 round max for waterfowl, afraid i might kill all the ducks? or hog all the action? lol. i go deer hunting with my ar15 30 rounds attached. i don't see what the big deal is, it's not illegal here so why not?

bottom line, i don't think it's cool or that i will ever use it up on deers or some loose dogs or some random zombie b.s. but because we have the right to (at least here and for now) and i choose to. the way i see it is that i rather have the firepower if given the option, and not need it than need it and not have it for what ever reason. same deal with my handgun, i never use it for hunting but i always bring it. think of it like a seat belt, you don't need it, but sure nice to have when you do.

Ok, now I am pissed. Since Bill Ruger died, there has been a run on all things Ruger. I've been in the hunt for a local LCR but couldn't find one anywhere (nor on Gallery of Guns), so I moved to the LCP and can't find that either. I will order an LCP from Able's and arrange for a transfer, but the Ruger shortages are starting to become a real pain.

Ok, now I am pissed. Since Bill Ruger died, there has been a run on all things Ruger. I've been in the hunt for a local LCR but couldn't find one anywhere (nor on Gallery of Guns), so I moved to the LCP and can't find that either. I will order an LCP from Able's and arrange for a transfer, but the Ruger shortages are starting to become a real pain.
but the Ruger shortages are starting to become a real pain.

And expensive too... Have you seen the prices on used Security, Speed and Service Six? Seems like you could pick one up a couple of years ago for about $200. Now they are $300 +++

Yes, very true, Wishoot. This run on Rugers is driving the prices up and up. I *may* hold on buying the LCP until things calm down a bit, but ideally I would like to have it as soon as my NC CHP is finished. I don't have a suitable concealed carry pistol (the closest I have is my Taurus PT908 which is way too big). Funny thing is I wanted the LCP because I thought the Kahr P380 was too expensive, but that may not be the case much longer...

2 weeks ago, I released my personal ban on Bill Ruger and bought a 3" SP101 in .357. It needed a little bit of dremel buffing to smooth up the DA trigger pull, but I'm really enjoying it thus far.

I still haven't bought a Smith though...

Billo Ruger didn't force the AWB on America, Congress and The President did. The elected representatives the people voted for.

I didn't like what Bill said - but he didn't actually make war material against us, either. He kept producing double stack pistols, and rifles that could take more than 15 rounds, and sold quite a few to the police.

Painting Bill Ruger into the same corner with politicians who actually did restrict our rights is almost as unthinking as voting for the politicians to begin with. But we do.

Hate on Bill Ruger all you want, he left a viable gun company that offers a decent product. And if you do pick up some of the older firearms, you can shoot it all you want - which is what the 2A is about. How much ammo you feed it is up to you.

Bravo, Tirod!