[Drue]

I want to load some USGI AP bullets for my M1. I suppose that 4895 would be the powder to use. Can anyone suggest a good starting load?

Thanks

Drue

[C.R.Sam]

IF...
You are using G.I. 166 gr. AP (black tip) bullets....
MIL Spec load was 55gr of WC 852 or IMR 4895.

Note this is NOT cannister (retail in a can) powder.

Recommend starting a bit lower to be safe.

Also recommend weighing the bullets. They should be tween 160 and 166gr if they are for the original load.

Sam

[Drue]

Sam,

Thanks! That is just what I was looking for. The bullets are indeed USGI black tip. I weighed some of them and they clustered around 164 grains. I'll start at 50 grains of 4895 and work up to 55 unless the primers talk to me first.

Thanks again

Drue

[RecoilRob]

If I might offer a word of advice. The loading of a M1 can be guaged by watching the ejection pattern. If the empties are going out at 1 or 2 o'clock, the rifle is happy. If they start flinging back around 4 or 5 o'clock, the load is getting too warm for the rifle and it is starting to batter itself. Looking at primers may or may not tell you if the load is proper for the particular rifle in question.

In my experience, you will show ejection patten problems before you see pressure signs on the primers in most rifles, so long as you are using powders with a compatable burn rate. 4895 is perfect. Good luck. Rob

[C.R.Sam]

Agree re the ejectorate pattern.

And especially the primer warning.
In some guns, primers can look normal with huge overloads.

Sam

[Drue]

I did a little additional research. It seems that there are various lots of WC852 floating around. According to the gunpowder page at gibrass.com, the slower lots have burning rates similar to 4831 or H450. These powders would be too slow for an M1. The medium lots are similar to H380 and the faster lots are similar to 4895. The recommended starting load for the fast lots and the 150 gr M2 ball bullet is 46.5 gr.

In the case of 4895, various loading manuals; Speer (#8, old), Sierra and Lyman max out at about 47gr for the 165gr hunting bullets. Are they being too conservative?

Thanks

Drue

[RecoilRob]

Drue,
I'm not exactly sure what you are wanting to do with your M-1, but developing and running MAX loads through one is normally not a great idea. The rifles are 50 years old, the springs and gas systems are of variable and questionable integrity and they are valuable pieces of history that deserve (IMO) to be treated with respect.

Thinking Max Load and M-1 together, in the same sentence, is beyond my ability to reason or experience level. I HAVE seen many M-1's shooting loads that were WAY too HOT for them. Did they blow up? No. But, is there any particular reason why you need to coax that last 100fps out of the thing to accomplish your goals? I can't imagine a situation that absolutely NEEDS that last bit of velocity to make the additional abuse on that fine old rifle worthwhile.

My Lyman #47 shows 43gr of 4895 for 2469fps as a starting point and that is where I would start, if I were you. Watch where the rifle is throwing the empties and, so long as they are going forward, it is safe to increase the charge a bit. When the rifle starts throwing them directly to your right (3 Oclock) I would stop and go back a bit on the load. Any more power than that is starting to abuse the rifle.

Sorry for the long explanation. IMO, unless you are going hunting or to war, making a load that the rifle functions well with is more important than pushing it to the limits. Good luck Drue. Rob

[Drue]

Rereading the thread, it does look like I am trying to find max loads. This is not the case and this stems from my confusion about the differences between lots of USGI powder and canister powder available to reloaders.

I want to load ammo that is somewhere close to milspec since the rifle and that ammo were designed for each other and it should be in the rifle-does-function and oprod-does-not-get-bashed range.

The loading manuals provide velocity and pressure data which is fine for bolt guns but the pressure curve requirements of the M1 are usually not considered, which is why I asked the question here. Using canister 4895, it seems like the thing to do is start in the low 40's and stop as soon as the functioning is reliable.

Drue