[dougiefreshhh]

Hi All:

First, I really appreciate the commentary in the other thread regarding my questions about a good starter Musket. The feedback has been nothing short of great!

I have another question regarding a comment on a used .75 cal BB for sale.

It states that it shoots "a .715 unpatched roundball with 80-90 grains of black powder." :confused:

Excuse my silly question, but in the books I've read, and the videos ive watched on loading a musket, they always show the main charge being packed down with some paper (i.e from the paper cartridge), and then ball is packed down.

Is this what is called an 'unpatched' ball?

I'm guessing that a 'patched' ball is one where you do the same as above, but before loading the ball, you put some thin cloth on the muzzle, rest the ball on the cloth, and then stuff that down.

Again, sorry for the elementary queston, but any help would be appreciated!

Thx,
Doug

[arcticap]

There are ways to paper patch a ball, but for most shooting purposes a cloth patch can hold more lube to keep the fouling soft, make loading easier and for better accuracy.

Reenactors may use paper cartridges as over powder wads and for shooting blank loads.

But most range shooters use thicker lubed 100% cotton patches with round balls that are about .020 under the bore size.

If paper cartridges were used to hold powder then sure, ram the paper to serve as an over powder wad, especially with loose fitting balls.
But shooting with bare balls [or loose paper patched balls] are more for ease of reloading with a fouled bore during battle.

[Cosmoline]

You can go either way with a musket or trade gun. Try one way then the other, with different dimension balls. Another method I use with smoothbores is to start the day patching slightly smaller roundballs then just load the bare ones of a slightly larger dimension as the barrel gets cruddier.

[Mike OTDP]

It's a legitimate question.

Military loads for smoothbore muskets were undersized for rapid loading. You ripped open a paper cartridge, poured the powder down the bore, follow with the ball - and the paper, to hold it in place.

For accuracy, you have two choices. If you have a bore in good condition, a patched bullet works best. If the bore is pitted (like an original in MLAIC competition), an unpatched ball works best. Frequently stippled (roll the bullet between two rasp files) to minimize drag, and possibly loaded with an overpowder wad or Cream of Wheat buffer.

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

AFAIK (which doesn't go very far) the "patch" in a smoothbore functions more like a wad in a shotgun shell, it is meant more to provide a seal so the powder does not blow past the ball or loose shot. I note as a some time Rev War reenactor paper is rammed down the barrel only for demonstrations, NEVER in a battle.

[BCRider]

And, correct me if I'm wrong on this, with the balls for muzzle loaders being slightly smaller than the barrel bore if the balls are NOT patched they'll roll down and onto the ground when you tip the gun around to cap or load the pan. And that's considered as very bad form.... :D

[Das Jaeger]

is being spoken here buddy for the most part , whole different animal than a rifled musket or rifled Long Rifle , hee hee hee :D
Your in good company , I had to go back and look myself to make sure what the heck they were talkin about . :D

Jaeger, Musket Virgin :D

[Ginormous]

And that's considered as very bad form....

Not to mention, embarrassing. Showing one's balls on the battlefield, oh the visual!

[Das Jaeger]

the South would have won that War had that happened Ginormous , ours were bigger than the Norths you know :D

Jaeger

[Ginormous]

Sherman must not have been looking closely enough I guess. Any evidence he was near sighted perhaps? Har.

[Ratdog68]

Not to mention, embarrassing. Showing one's balls on the battlefield, oh the visual!
Yet another reason to pass on the man-skirt thing ! :evil:

[Ratdog68]

the South would have won that War had that happened Ginormous , ours were bigger than the Norths you know :D

Jaeger
Bluer, maybe. :evil:

[Das Jaeger]

because your Balls are Blue , right :neener: And .31 Caliber :neener:

God, I think I de-railed this thread all on my own too , ooops , sorry

Jaeger

[Das Jaeger]

it was Gimormous , he's responcible for my Behaviour , hee hee hee

Jaeger :D

[Ratdog68]

because your Balls are Blue , right :neener: And .31 Caliber :neener:

God, I think I de-railed this thread all on my own too , ooops , sorry

Jaeger
:D No, no, and... yes. :D The thread Police are comin' ta gitcha now !! :neener:

[Ratdog68]

it was Gimormous , he's responcible for my Behaviour , hee hee hee

Jaeger :D
Yeah... we can blame him... I mean... why NOT blame Ginormous ?!?! Ain't that what he's here for?

[Das Jaeger]

yeh , what he said :D

I always liked the look of the Trade Guns too , Muskets are just sometin I have never gotten into , yet ? I would assume they make great shotguns , buck and ball and such too .

Jaeger

[Ratdog68]

I know one thing for certain.... I'ma justa gittin' m'feet wet at this point in time. :D

[Das Jaeger]

dove in head first , your all the way up to your neck :D
And there is no backing out , which is a great thing , your a real asset to the sport and gunsmithing too . Honest .
Notice how asset is spelled ( ass-et ) . :D

Jaeger

[Ratdog68]

dove in head first , your all the way up to your neck :D
And there is no backing out , which is a great thing , your a real asset to the sport and gunsmithing too . Honest .
Notice how asset is spelled ( ass-et ) . :D

Jaeger
LOL Yeah... I did sorta jump in with both hooves. No regrets now that I finally HAVE everything I ordered and paid for. Got some tinkerin' to do yet on the T/C .50 Hawken... but, that'll be for when the weather goes south and I need to tinker indoors.

I gots LOTS of gleaning to do before I can don a "gunsmith" hat. But... I'll continue to learn bits and pieces as time goes by. Otherwise... what's the point if you're not learning?

I guess that beats being an "assette". :neener:

[Das Jaeger]

a new thread about a new type of BP gun I don't owne or never have shot , I realy want one . This thread is no different :D
I think that tis a disease ? You have it too Ratdoggy68 :) ......
Hmmm , Musketittus ? I can't find it spelled in my medical terminolgy book , but I know its REAL affliction .
When I read this thread you can count on the Jaeger packin in this wealth of information these fine folks have shared . For the future of course :D

Jaeger

[Ratdog68]

For now... I'm workin' through gaining a handle on my riflitis and pistolitis infections. No musketitis raining down on me at this point... but, it could happen. :D

I predict you'll beat me to the Rx for attending to the symptoms of musketitis.

[Cosmoline]

I tell you, there's no other shooting experience like firing a front stuffer that you built yourself

[Ratdog68]

I tell you, there's no other shooting experience like firing a front stuffer that you built yourself
I'll agree that it's right up there with shooting a longbow made by your own hands... from a raw piece of wood. One of these days I'll build myself a muzzleloader... and I'm sure I'll savor that first shot just as I did the first arrow from my longbow. Getting back to basics is a very good thing.

[Ginormous]

Yeah... we can blame him... I mean... why NOT blame Ginormous ?!?! Ain't that what he's here for? Just call me the king of the segue. :D

Personally, this is the only musket that seems to have grip on me atm.

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MSC.shtml

.75 caliber lead throwing hand held cannon-carbine. Only $475, and a few months waiting. Buck and ball would be a hoot with this. :what:

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/images/thumb_MSC_right.JPG

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/images/thumb_MSC_left.JPG

[Das Jaeger]

Ratboy68 , gettin back to basics is definately a great thing . Yup .
I am thinkin Flinter and Musket is about as basic as you can get , well besides matchlocks and wheelocks of course , but even those are equally addictive . :D
Even this last Range time we shot 1911's first for a couple hours , I was counting my dollar bills going bye bye each shot :cuss: I was shootin high octaine Remington HP's at $00.75 a pop .
But my point was I was more exhsited to put the 1911 down and shoot the BP gun finally . That and its cheap compaired to shoot :) . But I am finding the more I shoot and owne the BP guns , the more I have let my modern guns sit in the safe . That aint a bad thing either :D Its just more fun shootin these BP guns , period . Even rattlin off 20 rounds of .308 out of the Cetme HK just doesn't do it for me like the BP revolvers . I am a sick sick man , wheres the Doctor , can't believe I even typed that ? But its true , back to basics man , yes , big time back . :D I actualy experience true JOY with BP , ah , ZEN moments full of smoke and fire . Hmmm , smoke and Fire , sounds like Hell ? :fire: Heaven on Earth is more like it .

Jaeger , MEDIC ! :evil:

[Das Jaeger]

Ginormous , whom is the Segue King now :D Self proclaimed no less :D
I like there pistols too that Middlsex has , bunch-o-smoothbores . :D
I would would rather save and get Pedersoli though , but thats just me .
BUTTTTT , you get allot of Bang for the India buck with those guns , they are truelly hand made all the way . And not far from the crudeness of the real guns back then either . No crap , I seen pics of the old real ones and some are even rougher than the India guns . :banghead:

Jaeger

[Ratdog68]

Just call me the king of the segue. :D

Personally, this is the only musket that seems to have grip on me atm.

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MSC.shtml

.75 caliber lead throwing hand held cannon-carbine. Only $475, and a few months waiting. Buck and ball would be a hoot with this. :what:

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/images/thumb_MSC_right.JPG

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/images/thumb_MSC_left.JPG
Oh, sure !!!! Look at what you post up now !!! I think I could look more than once at that beauty ! :D (Yer LOW !!!) :D

[Ratdog68]

Ratboy68 , gettin back to basics is definately a great thing . Yup .
I am thinkin Flinter and Musket is about as basic as you can get , well besides matchlocks and wheelocks of course , but even those are equally addictive . :D
Even this last Range time we shot 1911's first for a couple hours , I was counting my dollar bills going bye bye each shot :cuss: I was shootin high octaine Remington HP's at $00.75 a pop .
But my point was I was more exhsited to put the 1911 down and shoot the BP gun finally . That and its cheap compaired to shoot :) . But I am finding the more I shoot and owne the BP guns , the more I have let my modern guns sit in the safe . That aint a bad thing either :D Its just more fun shootin these BP guns , period . Even rattlin off 20 rounds of .308 out of the Cetme HK just doesn't do it for me like the BP revolvers . I am a sick sick man , wheres the Doctor , can't believe I even typed that ? But its true , back to basics man , yes , big time back . :D I actualy experience true JOY with BP , ah , ZEN moments full of smoke and fire . Hmmm , smoke and Fire , sounds like Hell ? :fire: Heaven on Earth is more like it .

Jaeger , MEDIC ! :evil:
Yup... shooting modern means taking the time to reload too... and work up how each load does... logging it in the notes... a little less "cha-ching !!" per outing. :D I really likes the BP shooting. Me thinks me prefers the more deliberate aspect of shooting, whether with modern or with BP, or with archery.

[Ratdog68]

Ginormous , whom is the Segue King now :D Self proclaimed no less :D
I like there pistols too that Middlsex has , bunch-o-smoothbores . :D
I would would rather save and get Pedersoli though , but thats just me .
BUTTTTT , you get allot of Bang for the India buck with those guns , they are truelly hand made all the way . And not far from the crudeness of the real guns back then either . No crap , I seen pics of the old real ones and some are even rougher than the India guns . :banghead:

Jaeger
Yeah... it's time for the Jaegermeister to start adding smoothbores to the fray (subliminal pay-back #1). :evil: One of them would look fine with some of your inlay work adorning it.

[Das Jaeger]

it would match my Crudenesss of my Inlays too :D Bonus !
India aint got nothin on my Crudenesss by golly :D I am the King of crude .
I would like to have a few of those , juss because though :D

Jaeger

[Ginormous]

Haha, being left handed and left eyed makes that ship's carbine a hip shooting proposition for me. No way am I holding that flinter up to my face and pulling the trigger. Relocation of body parts isn't on my list of things to do this year.

Anyhoo, loaded with buck and ball and shooting from the hip, I ought to be able to hit something in the general vicinity of the lane I am in. I'd probably even pimp it out with brass tacks, german silver medallions, silver wire inlays and any other piratey looking stuff I could find. Looking good is as important as shooting good, possibly even more so where the cheapo fun guns are concerned! :)

[Ratdog68]

Haha, being left handed and left eyed makes that ship's carbine a hip shooting proposition for me. No way am I holding that flinter up to my face and pulling the trigger. Relocation of body parts isn't on my list of things to do this year.

Anyhoo, loaded with buck and ball and shooting from the hip, I ought to be able to hit something in the general vicinity of the lane I am in. I'd probably even pimp it out with brass tacks, german silver medallions, silver wire inlays and any other piratey looking stuff I could find. Looking good is as important as shooting good, possibly even more so where the cheapo fun guns are concerned! :)
Uhhh.... hold it high and just shoot it R/H. Couldn't be any LESS accurate than lighting your hip on fire... since ya care less 'bout it than yer mug. :neener: Doll that thing up and post up pix of it afterwards !!

[Ginormous]

Assuming I get it, of course I will.

Although I REALLY am in need of a tacticool .75 cal. musket for zombie population control. At typical zombie shooting distances, over the head or on the hip won't matter too much I don't think.

[Ratdog68]

Assuming I get it, of course I will.

Although I REALLY am in need of a tacticool .75 cal. musket for zombie population control. At typical zombie shooting distances, over the head or on the hip won't matter too much I don't think.
I unnerstan'.... carry on. Are they tough to clean before slappin' 'em on the grill?

[Ginormous]

They're strictly a local delicacy I have not acquired the taste for, so I am unable to comment on that. I just donate the carcasses to the local fertilizer factory for appropriate recycling. I'm green like that, but not zombie green . . yet. :D

[Ratdog68]

They're strictly a local delicacy I have not acquired the taste for, so I am unable to comment on that. I just donate the carcasses to the local fertilizer factory for appropriate recycling. I'm green like that, but not zombie green . . yet. :D
Well... carry on with the good fight... too many Zombies are making it to D.C. and infesting all facets of the City's confines !! Thinning of the Zombie gene pool is quite the noble cause !! :evil:

[Das Jaeger]

consider themselves the ceam of the crop , while us right handers are obviously the Cream of the Wheat to you Ginormous . You ought to be able to superlatively shoot right handed also since your at the top of the Gene Pool yall think . :D
I would be more than happy to send you one of my full face Dragger clear face shields if you'd like if your realy afraid to shoot it left handed :D ...
I could send ya one of my Gals if your more comfortable with that , its Pink :D

Jaeger

[Hawkeye748]

Ginormous,

Be careful with that Middlesex gun. The barrels are not proofed. They are made in India. Don't know about your particular gun as they refuse to say who makes them, just that they come from India. Several Indian made guns have blown up on people.

[Ratdog68]

...I could send ya one of my Gals if your more comfortable with that , its Pink :D

Jaeger

Of course... what other color do they come in? :evil: :neener: :D

[BCRider]

Ya all knowz that the term "gauche" to designate something improper or impolite is also the french word for "left"?

Not insinuating anything but I thought it may be worth mentioning..... :D

[Das Jaeger]

is if I use my left hand its wrong ? What if I have to use both hands ? :D

Ratdog68 , my shield is Rose colored , like my World , " here comes the Sun doo doo doo doo " :D

Jaeger ;)

[Ratdog68]

Ya all knowz that the term "gauche" to designate something improper or impolite is also the french word for "left"?

Not insinuating anything but I thought it may be worth mentioning..... :D
("Droite") :neener:

[Ratdog68]

is if I use my left hand its wrong ? What if I have to use both hands ? :D

Ratdog68 , my shield is Rose colored , like my World , " here comes the Sun doo doo doo doo " :D

Jaeger ;)
At least it ain'tcher bad moon risin' ! :D

[Das Jaeger]

out , you guys are more Edumicated than me . :D

Jaeger

[Das Jaeger]

or I will whip out Aerosmiths Big Ten Inch , record and whack ya with it :neener:

Jaeger

[Ratdog68]

or I will whip out Aerosmiths Big Ten Inch , record and whack ya with it :neener:

Jaeger
OMG !! Threats of assault with a dead weapon !!! :neener:

[Das Jaeger]

if thats how Limp Bizkit got there name ? :)

[Ratdog68]

if thats how limp bizkit got there name ? :)


LOL :evil: