[z3ro]

I just wanted to know how you all would rate my shotgun as a HD weapon. I've listed all the add-ons for you and have i included several pictures. Im just looking for ways to make it shoot better, other then more practice of course :)


Mossberg 500A 12 gauge
39" w/ short barrell (non-rifled)
49" w/ long barrell (non rifled)

Add-Ons:
ATI Collapsible stock
NCStar 1x42 red dot
Tacstar side saddle

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r148/Z3ro06/S6300366.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r148/Z3ro06/S6300365.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r148/Z3ro06/S6300364.jpg

Right now, I have it loaded w/ AA Super sport, which i believe to be glorified bird shot. I am considering using either Winchester Supreme Rackmaster Slugs (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0050541216446a&navCount=1&podId=0050541&parentId=cat20841&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&catalogCode=XJ&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20841&cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=special%20shotgun%20slugs&cm_ite=netcon&hasJS=true) or some other high velocity sabot round. The thing i am not sure is how the round will act in a non rifled barrell.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!

[Milkmaster]

Your shotgun looks really nice and I am sure you are proud of the doo dads on it.

For home defense you may find those things are actually in your way and forgotten when the SHTF. Keep this one for show and tell, but get a stripped bare bones pump with a stock that fits you and an 18" barrel. Run enough shells through it to make some well slicked off wear marks on it. By that time the two of you will be aquainted enough to actually use it when the time for home defense appears out of no where.

This is not meant as an insult to your present shotgun. It is just an opinion of what I think works in the real and unexpected world when things happen.

Whatever you use, shoot it a lot until it feels like second nature.

[Fred Fuller]

Me? You want advice from an old phart like me? OK...

The SideSaddle is just fine, I'd put some blue LocTite on the threads of the little screws holding the plastic shellholder to the mounting plate though. They tend to back out.

Add a simple carry strap and a good recoil resistant weaponlight (LED)

Ditch the dot and the rail, stick to using the bead

Go back to the factory stock, fitted to you if necessary, with a premium recoil pad added

Run a couple thousand rounds through the gun on increasingly demanding drills. Maybe even take a defensive shotgun class. Once the magazine tube and the action bars are shiny from being pumped and you know the gun like your tongue knows your teeth, ask again.

Till the magazine tube and the action bars are shiny, till the pile of empty hulls you have fired through that gun is knee high, shoot shotgun shells, not pictures... :D

lpl

[Bill B.]

get a stripped bare bones pump with a stock that fits you and an 18" barrel.

+1 ...................................What he said!

[z3ro]

Thanks for all the advice. I do plan on ditching the red dot scope in favor of a much smaller reflex sight. I realized that the red dot is just to big for the shotgun. Now the problem with the stock "iron sights" is that, lol, I have a huge dome. My head is big, so to line up the stock sights, i have to put my head on the stock, and that makes it very uncomfortable in the shoulder area.

The strap, i have been looking for options. The only "tactical" store close to me is extremely expensive, so most of my options have to be sought out online. That makes fitment to my size and build (6'4, 230lbs) pretty hard.

I had a light, but unfortunantly i broke it. Actually it was a cheapie, and it broke after about 150 rounds. I need to invest in a good light, I just have other stuff that needs attention before.

And, my god, would i love to put more and more rounds through it. The only problem is, is it gets to about 105-110 here daily. Its defininantly no fun to go out and blow through a couple boxes in that weather.

[BushyGuy]

nice tac shotty

[Tully M. Pick]

How well do you shoot it?

[z3ro]

At targets, pretty well, at clays, even with the long barrel, not that great. I don't think im using the right kind of ammunition

[Bugman53]

You just need a lug to mount a swiss amrmy knife and your set.....well a spot light woud be cool to ..........j\k Looks good and if its what you like and you shoot it well then your set.

[Bix]

My head is big, so to line up the stock sights, i have to put my head on the stock, and that makes it very uncomfortable in the shoulder area.

You are describing a fit problem, and not an insignificant one.

When we shoot shotguns, we want four points of contact: shoulder, head, hand 1 and hand 2. Remove any of those points and effectiveness is compromised.

Can you describe a bit more how it becomes uncomfortable in the shoulder area when you put your head on the stock?

[JEB]

i totally agree with your idea of swaping out the red dot for a reflex sight. just make sure that it is one that you can activate quickly. get lots of practice and i would be hard pressed to find anything to change IMHO.

[fireman 9731]

I don't think im using the right kind of ammunition

For clays, any thing that wally world sells for cheap in a bulk pack is fine.

For self defense, find a decent buckshot load that patterns well at the ranges you will be shooting it at.

[ndh87]

the side saddle is handy, if the stock fits you well thats what matters.

Definitely lose the red dot though. NcStar isnt known for quality. I put a tritium front bead on my 18 inch HD gun, works great, and you never have to switch it on.

[kis2]

pretty nice... definately work on the fit so that it lines up easy for you.

i like my shotguns stripped down to bare bones, however i'm a huge fan of mag extensions til they are flush with the barrel. love the look, and it never hurts to have an extra shell or two in the tube

lookin good!

[AcceptableUserName]

I think it's a mall ninja shotgun. A Red Dot is senseless on a shotgun that isn't COMPLETELY dedicated to slugs. You do not aim a shotgun, you point it. If I ever needed to use my shotgun in a hurry in a life or death situation, personally I think that red dot might get me killed to be honest with you. I don't want to be looking through sights, I want to be pointing that bead instinctively and sending 00 downrage ASAP. The AR stock is debateable, personally not my thing. The Sidesaddle is fine as long as you've shot enough rounds with and without to know how it handles. But great choice in a shotgun. Just my .02

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

I think it's a mall ninja shotgun. A Red Dot is senseless on a shotgun that isn't COMPLETELY dedicated to slugs. You do not aim a shotgun, you point it. If I ever needed to use my shotgun in a hurry in a life or death situation, personally I think that red dot might get me killed to be honest with you. I don't want to be looking through sights, I want to be pointing that muzzle and sending lead downrage ASAP. The AR stock is debateable, personally not my thing. The Sidesaddle is fine as long as you've shot enough rounds with and without to know how it handles. But great choice in a shotgun. Just my .02

+1 it's mall ninja, get a stripped one for HD

[ThrottleJockey72]

I do plan on ditching the red dot scope in favor of a much smaller reflex sight.
Don't get me wrong, it looks cool. But.....Lose the dot, no sights are required on a shotgun that doesn't have a rifled slug barrel. A shotgun is point and shoot. Like most others have said, simple, plain, practice. Get a tube extender to increase the capacity, or just trade it in for a 590. No body that's ever been shot by a shotgun gives a darn, or even noticed how cool it looked. I personally think you wasted a lot of money on "ninja gear", but whatever makes you happy. I also recommend possibly finding one chambered for 3.5 inch magnums, LOTS more lead, with a bit more kick. And also, lose the funny shells. Get 00bucksot and slugs, brand and name mean nothing.

[jakemccoy]

That looks like a nice setup. However, since we are talking home defense, your practice time and skill are, by far, the more important factors here.

You would be better off by using the same (or similar) platform you use to shoot clays every weekend. If you feel like you don't want to shoot clays with this setup, then it's not desirable as a home defense shotgun. That, of course, is my opinion.

If you're like me, you dream about taking a defensive shotgun course but have never gotten around to it. Even if I do take such a course in the future, I know that I won't take the time to keep my skills sharp at a defensive shooting range. I don't even know where such a range is around me. My practice comes through shooting clays. Skeet is no joke! Be honest with yourself.

[RobG5538]

You asked so... Where is the light?? You ain't gonna see or hit s$%t with that cheesy NC red dot when bad guys come-a-knockin at 3 a.m. Shoot a ton and you will see that pistol grip stock sucks, too. Leave the saddle, ditch the stock, mount a light, get some low recoil 00 and/or slugs and get some trigger time in.

[bigalexe]

Personal opinion pertaining to the "strip the crap off it and use the bead" mentality. I'm going to verbally demonstrate here why that makes sense.

My house has the largest room being 28x14 ft. Next after that the average I would say the rooms are is 12x12. So pretty much if I were in my home with a shotgun, there is nowhere in the house I would be engaging a target where I would really need to line up any type of long range shots. The longest shot I can imagine in my home is through a doorway from the back of the house to the front which is around 36 feet (thats 12 yards, less than the range from the trap house to the concrete).

Lets consider this fact, my gun is around 51" on my shoulder with the bird barrel. So add maybe another 12" for my body. If I were to back up against a wall in my home the average distance to the next wall is 7' from the end of my barrel, a whopping 2 yards.

The reason I made this long demonstration is that I don't think people realize just how close you are in your home. Aiming in the tight space of your home isn't a large complicated matter. Considering that most people are larger targets than clay pigeons or 8.5x11 sheets of paper, you should have no problem hitting a person in a room inside your home simply pointing and shooting.

However: This does not mean you should not PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE with your gun. Practice is something that should always be done more.

[z3ro]

Again, advice well taken. Im ditching the NcStar immediately. However, im keeping the AR stock. I just cant stand that stock stock. It doesnt feel comfortable in my shoulder, and makes me stick my elbow up in the air. Highly untactical if im hitting it coming around a corner to defend my apartment.

Will the stock barrell shoot slugs well, or should i invest in a rifled barrell?

[AcceptableUserName]

It'll shoot rifled slugs fine. But it might be a little "untactical" not to have an extra rifled slug barrel taped under the mag tube. :D

[z3ro]

i might as well just tape 2 shotguns together! :)

[jakemccoy]

Highly untactical if im hitting it coming around a corner to defend my apartment.

Based on what you said right there, it's important to point out again that your training and tactics are more important than the cool devices on your weapon. Clearing a house is extremely dangerous. You should ask SWAP team members how long it takes to get it right. Unless, you have someone in another room that you need to defend, you shouldn't be sweeping around corners. You should hunker down in your room with your gun pointed at the door while you have 911 on the line. It's not a video game. You don't get to restart if you get killed by an intruder.

[z3ro]

i already have some prior experience with clearing buildings, just not with a shotgun. And i do have someone to defend, actually 2 someones. I beautiful girlfriend and her cat.

[Old Jimmy]

A set of ghost ring sights might help with you keeping your head higher...

[AcceptableUserName]

I'm just giving you a hard time. My honest advice is great choice in a shotgun, keep the sidesaddle and stock, ditch the rest. Go out to the range and test your gun hard (500+ rds at least) and see if you still want the AR stock. If you're worried about maneuvering around such tight corners, you're probably at contact shooting distances anyway. It comes down to what works for you. I've been shooting since I was 8 years old almost every single Saturday and to be honest, I'm still learning things. The only way to know is to A - SHOOT and B - take the High Road :)

[poor_richard]

… Thanks for all the advice. I do plan on ditching the red dot scope in favor of a much smaller reflex sight. I realized that the red dot is just to big for the shotgun. Now the problem with the stock "iron sights" is that, lol, I have a huge dome. My head is big, so to line up the stock sights, i have to put my head on the stock, and that makes it very uncomfortable in the shoulder area….
You are describing a fit problem, and not an insignificant one.
…
ATI makes drop stock spacers. I had a 500A with the ATI six-position stock, and couldn’t mount it well enough to see the sights properly until I installed two drop stock spacers. They lower the comb ¼” each. I bought the first one on ebay, and when it wasn’t enough, I called Mossberg and explained my dilemma. They sent me another one (I even told them both the stock and gun were used, and the stock was not original. They still sent me the drop stock spacer for free.). After installing the spacers, that gun pointed like it was fitted at birth, and I never noticed recoil with it.

I found the AR style stock is easier on my Tennis Elbow, but I’ve gone back to the regular stock for my shotgun. The AR stock is more comfortable for me, but I just like the wood. Who knows, maybe I’ll end up getting a couple AR style Knox stocks for both the HD and field guns some day.

[Younggunner]

Well I like the shotgun... I wouldn't be afraid go pull my 870 express on somebody in the house... But I read something about defending and an apartment and then I read something about slugs. If I were you I'd go with #7 buckshot for defense and ditch the slug idea in an apartment. And with the stock if it's really that uncomfortable, in a HD scenario, just put the gun at your hip and put 2 shells in the bad guys body, then you don't even need the bead... But ditch the red dot and get good at a quick point and blast.
Just my .02

[Snowdog]

Looks like you got some good advice here, so I'll save my breath being that it's already been said.
It's quite hard to beat a reliable pump with some type of buck for the close ranges typical of indoor defensive situations.

[Justin]

BA/UU/R

FWIW, I dislike the idea of having a powered dot sight on an HD weapon. In the dark, it leaves you fumbling for the on switch, or you're stuck with leaving the scope on all the time and getting into the habit of changing the batteries on a regular basis.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of collapsible stocks, though not for any particular reason other than that they don't generally fit me as well as a traditional stock.

The side-saddle isn't a bad idea, though it looks like you've got Winchester AA bird shot in it?

[chevyforlife21]

keep the shell holder get rid of everything else then id rate it a 10 it would be better with a 8 shot mag like i have on mine though. also i would get buckshot,birdshot is ok for temporary but deff keep buckshot for it. practice with birdshot and keep buckshot in the gun

[Shpadoinkel]

I'm glad your losing the sight. If I were you, I would add a light. It will be much more useful in an HD situation than any sight, even ghost ring.

Regarding your sight-line/aiming problem, you might want to look into a Knoxx SpecOps stock. It has a nice drop in it, not straight back like the ATI. I have a pretty big melon myself and I have no problem lining up the bead.

And I fully agree with what Younggunner said, I hope your not thinking of using slugs in an HD situation, it's a bad enough idea on it's own. But in an apartment... there could be no worse choice of ammo. Unless you want to hit the bad guy AND 3 of your neighbors, stick to #1, #4 or #7 buckshot (I'd suggest 00, and only 00, if you weren't in an apartment).

[Trey45]

I remember my 1st shotgun.

[AcceptableUserName]

It seems like people are recommending you get a mag extension, sorry. You have a 500a, it will not work. You're pretty much stuck with the 6 shots or you get a new gun, which would be a waste. Old Ithaca 37 Police models, if my facts are straight were mostly 5 and 6 shot guns and those served faithfully for SO many years and took down untold numbers of threats over the years. You're not outgunned with 6 shots. I prefer more but it's fine. In fact your gun probably points better with the magazine as it is.

[RandKL]

You're pretty much stuck with the 6 shots or you get a new gun

You're a Remington man, AUN. Of course you'd say that lol

The Mossy can easily be extended by simply buying a second magazine tube to fit a replacement barrel. While you can't simply stick on a mag extension tube like a Remington, you can buy an eight shot Persuader barrel or even a nine shot 590 barrel and switch the magazine tubes. Takes all of two minutes to switch back and forth. That's the beauty of the 500 system. You can go from a nine shot military gun with a bayonet to a blackpowder muzzle loader or anywhere inbetween inside of two minutes by simply switching parts.

richard

[RandKL]

Nice shotgun, Zero! I agree, lose the red dot. Buy a 10/22 and stick it on it.

Like Jimmy said, have you considered ghost rings? An ATI heatshield with ghost rings will put your line of sight up approx 3/4-1" above the plain bead.

What Alexe said.

Nice gun, bud! A great start!

richard

[AcceptableUserName]

I'm actually a Mossberg guy, but wouldn't the cost of buying the replacement 20" barrel and 8 shot mag tube be as much as just buying a new 20" Persuader? I wish Mossberg made a tube that'd line up flush with the 18.5" barrel...that's why I usually go with 590's..cause they can be extended if need be, thanks to Scattergun Tech and Max 100 (I have a Max100 ext on the way)

[RandKL]

Not really. You can pick up 20" eight shot barrels all week long in the $75-100 range. Just shop around. A mag tube, even from the parts stores (read that as "expensive stores) will go $25-30.

Last eight shot set I picked up was $45 from one of the online sites. The mag tube was dented a tad and it would only take four shells before binding. The barrel was perfect....and ten mins with the proper sized mandrel had the tube perfect again, too. Didn't even have to trash it. That barrel and tube are on one of my brother in law's 500's now.

Shop around and you can find any Mossy barrel you want for $100 or less. Heck, for the cost of a new gun, you'd could pretty much have a five barrel shotgun set of your own. The muzzleloader is the only really rare part.

Be safe.

richard

[z3ro]

Im not really into adding a longer mag tube. For some reason, i like the shorter one better.

If i cant get the job done in the few shots i have, i shouldnt be using it as an HD weapon in the first place.

UPDATE

I stripped off the scope and rail, but im looking for a nice, inexpensive LED light. Any suggestions? all the ones ive seen on ebay look like crapola

[redneck2]

First of all, I'd NEVER use slugs in an apartment setting. Actually, not in a house setting unless I lived at least a few hundred yards from the closest neighbor. Unless you've seen first hand what a slug will do, you most likely have no idea. Go to Box 'O Truth site to see what I mean.

Lose the extra crap hanging off the gun. Looks cool for the wannabe's. The more stuff you have, the more stuff can go wrong. Me? I just buy buck shot for the hunting guns I have.

[Dave McCracken]

How does it shoot?

A couple things...

First, none of the defensive arms here become such until they have quite a few rounds through them. A minimum of 200 rounds shot glitchless(the Ayoob Criteria) is a good start.

But, 200 rounds is not enough to develop expertise, and that expertise is mandatory to survive in a dangerous situation.

The hardware is the easy part. Expertise mandates sweat equity in building your abilities.


Go shoot your shotgun.

Frequently and thoroughly.

Measure ability in part by the pile of empties around your shins and by the larger mound of destroyed targets.

Those could be clay targets, tin cans, tombstone targets, silohuettes, starlings or landfill rats.

But you NEED to shoot this to make it work for you.

HTH.....

[SwampWolf]

For home defense, I like no.4 Buck (fairly big pellets but penetrating less than even bigger shot and more of them than the traditional double-aught stuff). Some posters have referred to no. 7 buckshot. I think they meant birdshot. Using slugs in a typical home setting is probably not a good idea.

As far as using sabotted configured slugs in a non-rifled smooth bore, only shooting them at targets will determine their suitability in terms of accuracy. Most sabot style slugs are intended for use in a rifled bore.

[z3ro]

Everyone keeps mentioning putting hundreds of rounds through it to "prep" the firearm. The problem is, is that i picked it up used at a pawn shop, so i dont know how many rounds went through it before i bought it. The gun shoots well, and ive never had even one jam. Ive fired it approx 300 rounds.

I guess it just comes down to more and more practice. I need to find someone local to go with me though, as i get kinda bored going by myself

[Dave McCracken]

Z3ro, some of us think 300 rounds on a weekend is just warming up.

Chances are, none of us will live long enough to see your used Mossberg worn out.

So, see if you can prove me wrong. I dare ya,heh,heh,heh....

[z3ro]

hahaha. Ill wear it out, but only if everyone buys me a new one :)

[AcceptableUserName]

I've had Mossbergs like yours that I put 500 rounds through in a DAY.



They like it. Trust me. Honestly, I don't think you even CAN wear a pump shotgun out. Parts MAY go bad, but they're pretty cheap and easily replaceable. I love 500's because they seem like the more you shoot em, the better they get. To be honest they feel like crap to me out of the box. Stiff, sticky, spongy ejection. But put about 500 rounds through it, fieldstrip and deep clean and then notice the difference.

[z3ro]

i dont think my shoulder could handle 500 rounds

[AcceptableUserName]

Low base isn't bad. Pickup a hundred or few rounds of Federal 7.5 from Walmart and make a day of it. 4.68 or so for 25, 20.48 or so for 100 if you buy in bulk. I rarely shoot anything else out of my gun besides the occasional 00 or slug to stay sharp.

[z3ro]

Is that the 100 round cases for like 20 bucks or so? cuz thats what ive been using.

[AcceptableUserName]

well they have Federal, Winchester and Remington 100 rd cases. I prefer the Federal. I think it actually might be cheaper tio buy them in seperate 25 rd boxes from the glass display. Those are like 4.68 and are the same exact thing. They actually seem a little bit hotter to me for some reason.

[z3ro]

hmm, ill have to check next time i head over there. I need a new vaccuum, so ill prob be there pretty soon

[AcceptableUserName]

Do it. and take the old vacuum too, so you can use the shells you buy on it :P