[clange]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/Columnists.nsf/Sylvester+Brown+Jr./D2DEA3AEFE6F715086256DCD00391B69?OpenDocument&Headline=Backers+of+concealed+guns+are+armed+with+dedication+to+cause

:barf:

[cameroneod]

Idiot

[Augustwest]

Not the sharpest bulb in the drawer...

[P95Carry]

Idiot Correction .. ''Raving Idiot'' ...... surprised he didn't come up with the ''rivers of blood'' line .. or the ''get guns of the streets'' cliche.

Sheesh.:barf:

[Standing Wolf]

Like I said, the vigilantes - oops, I mean, the pro-gun people - are very, very organized.

Those of us who believe the Bill of Rights means what it says have to be well organized, because the leftist extremist parasites are very well funded and very well connected.

[StLGlocker]

surprised he didn't come up with the ''rivers of blood'' line

He dragged all that stuff out already, in the last column he wrote. Road-ragers shooting at each other, and all the other idiotic false prophecies the antis never grow tired of, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary generated by dozens of other states.

[ojibweindian]

*********!!!!!!!

I had a guy once threaten to skull**** my 3 year old daughter and rape my then wife because I wouldn't take him out for a cigarette (worked in psych unit at the time). Learned soon after he was discharged that he lived about three blocks from my place.

That's when I bought my first hand gun.

I wonder what Mr. Brown would do if his wife and kids were threatened like that?

[Andrew Rothman]

On the bright side, he quoted me!
And Matt, from St. Louis, said: "Permit holders aren't victims, nor are they vigilantes. They are those who wish for a bit of an edge against the more than 30,000 violent crimes that take place in Missouri every year."

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42606#post518908

Okay, technically I only lived in St. Louis for a weekend while visiting my brother... :)

[bogie]

Okay - I was bored - maybe he'll read it, maybe he won't...

=====
Concealed carry and the law of large numbers

Well, dude, in any given large population, you're gonna have a few folks who are a bit weirder than others. It's a shame that nice, "normal" (hey, lately I've been wondering just what the perzact definition is...), folks just don't cough up newsworthy quotes.

Of course the NRA promotes those statistics. You wouldn't expect the Million Mom March folks to exactly want to publicize 'em, right?

Do me a favor, and take a look at the FBI's crime stats - you'll see that many crimes against women are by assailants armed with nothing more than "fists and feet." Not all of the assaults, but a sizable number. Missouri is one of only six states that currently seems to feel that a woman is better off with post-rape counseling than the ability to adequately defend herself. That's not a good thing. When concealed carry was voted in, my significant other moved into Missouri from the metro east - her thinking is that violent crimes directed at women will increase in Illinois once sexual predators realize that Missouri may not be as safe a place to hunt.

Then there are cases similar to the Matthew Sheperd case - Gay bashing _does_ take place in the metro area, probably more than folks would like to admit. Being armed means being able to tell a half-dozen drunk frat boys that they really need to find a different play toy.

Finally, I can't believe that people here are still supporting the Jim Crow laws of the latter part of the 1800s... In looking at Missouri's history, the Dred Scott case, etc., I just want to tell folks that I live ANYWHERE but St. Louis.

Also, I'd wonder about that "5,000 children die annually" number - do a little research (I kept having that drilled into my head when I was taking journalism classes - always be sure of your data...), and see if it's real. Or if it is someone who defines "child" as someone under 25 or somesuch. With "actual" children, who aren't involved in juvenile/adult crime, etc., you see a far greater hazard of drowning in swimming pools.

Keep an open mind.

Think a moment - when a "child" is killed with a firearm in St. Louis, a LARGE metro area, there's a big news story, right? How many of these do you see a year? Does the state see 100 a year? Or, considering the populations of this and other states, shouldn't we see _more_ than 100? I don't think that the actual numbers back up that figure. After all, assuming 28,000 firearms-related fatalities, subtract the 16,000 suicides, then 5,000 "children," and you have 7,000 deaths, nationally, many of which are criminal-on-criminal or police-on-criminal related, along with a statistically quite small number of deer hunters who darwinate themselves or their kinfolk. Look at your numbers, and keep an open mind.

Keep an open mind.

I'm going to eventually get a carry permit. That involves background checks, finger prints being sent off, and all sorts of other fun stuff which I'll guess that we're both getting sick of hearing about. But what it _will_ ultimately mean is that I'll have a little card or notation on my driver's license that certifies that "I am not a crook." Think on that a little - can you qualify? Can folks you know qualify? Your co-workers? Remember that a criminal record, except in the cases of folks with serious cash, is life long. Someone gets in an argument with a girlfriend or boyfriend when 18, and is convicted of domestic violence, even a misdemeanor? Bam - no firearms, no license, no nothing. Permit holders are a select group - an almost-exclusively non-criminal segment of society.

The 44 other states which allow concealed carry haven't had road rage incidents. They haven't had folks shooting each other over people jumping line. They haven't had blood in the streets. The absolute worst thing that the CDC had to say about concealed carry was that they couldn't draw a conclusion if it did anything or not. At best, it might give a woman a chance to avoid being raped and killed. Given the numbers, from Lott to the CDC, I think it's worth it.

In closing, and here's another quote for you, as you can probably tell, I'm not worried about concealed carry permit holders - what _really_ gives me the heebie jeebies are suburban parents who buy their kids sports cars, and then show up on the nightly news wondering about just how Junior managed to darwinate himself, while simulataneously taking out a minivan load of toddlers...

##30##

Pay close attention here, THR folks... I hit three major points - crimes against women, gay bashing, and all but called him a racist. Then I encouraged him to think. It could be that he has been, like many "journalists," getting his information from flawed sources. If he looks at the FBI, he'll see that the info he's been following is flawed. Then he'll look in other directions. Soft sell 'em, because the hard sell will be just NRA propaganda to 'em.

[Andrew Rothman]

Bogie -

Nice. Very nice.

[P95Carry]

Bogie ... Kudos!!! My, am I glad you were bored!:)

[clange]

I sent a very long, rational email in regards to his first column. Nothing sunk in. So when i responded to this one i kept it short..

Mr. Brown, allow me to congratulate you on your column 'Backers of concealed guns are armed with dedication to cause.' I'm a gun owner and support CCW, but your article did convince me on two points. First of all, you are in fact a blathering idiot. Secondly, you will not accept any rational arguments contrary to your position. Your irrational brainwashed fear of guns, oops - I mean, your opinion, is too strong. (neat trick by the way, I hope you dont mind if one of the violent and stupid pro-gun people uses it)

Chris Lange
Chesterfield

To my surprise, he responded..

Dear Chris,
Hey, that was unfair man. First you say you want to congratulate me then, you flip it around and insult me -- with my own words no less. Neat trick. Soooo, we're not going to agree on this issue, fine. I still respect you, even if you are one of those "gun people."
Thanks and stay in touch.
Sylvester

To which i sent..

I did little more than you did by starting your article in a seemingly non-confrontational way, then switching back to calling us vigilantes again in the last sentance. Again, your trick. Oh well, I thank you for writing me back at least. It's the only response from anyone at the post I've received regarding the few emails I've sent about this issue.

I'd like to again include a few statements of 'converts' from other states that enacted CCW. I'll bet you've received some responses pointing out that CCW has not lead to 'doom and gloom' in other states. Perhaps words of those who once held the opinion you do will at least sway your opinion slightly.

"The concerns I had - with more guns on the street, folks may be more apt to square off against one another with weapons - we haven't experienced that." -- Charlotte-Mecklenburg NC Police Chief Dennis Nowicki, The News and Observer, 11/24/97.

"Some of the public safety concerns which we imagined or anticipated a couple of years ago, to our pleasant surprise, have been unfounded or mitigated." -- Fairfax County VA Police Major Bill Brown, The Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97.

"I was wrong. But I'm glad to say I was wrong." -- Arlington County VA Police Detective Paul Larson, previously an opponent of Right to Carry, The Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97.

"I lobbied against the law in 1993 and 1995 because I thought it would lead to wholesale armed conflict. That hasn't happened. All the horror stories I thought would come to pass didn't happen. No bogeyman. I think it's worked out well, and that says good things about the citizens who have permits. I'm a convert." -- Glenn White, President of the Dallas Police Association, Dallas Morning News, December 23, 1997.

Regards,
Chris

Doubt it will matter, but I'll kepp ya posted. :)

[Bruce H]

How many of the Jim Crow laws are still on the books and valid? With research and time find all applicable and apply them to this great journalist. The sound or great indignation would be loud.

[bogie]

Well, as late as the early sixties, in this gawdforsaken town, we had "whites only" places. And, essentially, we still do. Sad. Really sad.