Laser Grips pros and Cons


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WLE
August 23, 2009, 01:01 PM
I just watch a video form Crimson Trace laser grips. It seams to me that there are a lot of advantages for self defense using the laser. However, what would be the disadvantage for a CCW and does the advantage out weight the advantages? I would like to get a CCW for my wife would it be better then open sights. Does anyone here us laser for CC and what do you think about the extra width? Thanks for all your input, Bill

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Kayback
August 23, 2009, 01:24 PM
I have used a Crimson Trace setof grips on my 1911, and I am trying to get them for my Glock as well.

They work.

IMHO they are about the best thing to happen to guns since they because autoloaders.

I'd prefer them if they threw a green laser, but the red works just fine, IN THE RIGHT LIGHTING CONDITIONS.

They don't replace the iron sights, but they do compliment them. And in most cases (Indoor or at night) I'd say they are the bees knees.

The don't adversly affect the weight or the balance of the weapon. The life of the betteries is very very good. And they are rugged.

Mine are on my IDPA pistol. While I can't use the laser for IDPA, I just throw the switch and turn it off. It's had thousands of rounds fired with the laser on and off, and it's still more accurate than I am.

'Scuse the crappy camera, but this was a very low light shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Std8x0owM

There is nothing complicated about them, or counter intuitive. Grip the gun as always, and you have a nice red dot. The extra grip width on the 1911's is minimal, and it has a lower profile to some of the grips I have owned.

A laser requires it's own practice, and it doesn't magically remove the need for the basics. But it does work.

KBK

WLE
August 23, 2009, 01:35 PM
KBK, great info. Not having any experience with lasers and most defense shooting will be at close range is the laser very visable at close range, Bill

Kayback
August 23, 2009, 01:53 PM
Very Very visible.

While I wouldn't use it as a primary source of illumination, the dot does (depending on the surface it hits) throw a decent ammount of light out.

I've got a pic somewhere on my harddrive. I'll see if I can find it. It compares the blacknees of my unlit toolshed with the laser on and off.

But ! The laser works best under low light conditions (duh) and it almost invisible during the day in direct sunlight. Daytime indoors is no problem. Knowing how to use sights is still a must. I have mine superimposed on the front sight.

WLE
August 23, 2009, 02:07 PM
In a life threatening situation does your mussel memory rely on the iron or on the beam or both?

Kayback
August 23, 2009, 02:53 PM
Having never used it in a life threatening situation I can't honestly say.

But I'd guess a mix of both. It is almost like point shooting, but with an aiming reference.

At least that's how I shot in the low light training.

KBK

Kayback
August 24, 2009, 02:34 PM
This is what my PT night sights look like in the total dark. (It is hard to use the camera and the gun at the same time)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Kayback/Gunpics/IMG_1718_800x533.jpg

This is the laser

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Kayback/Gunpics/DSCN0376.jpg

agoodpeter
September 7, 2009, 10:59 PM
i carry a glock 30 with the crimson trace sights,,,

the down
price
depending on batteries(though mine seem to last a long time so far)
the laser shines on the side of the gun ( good or bad?)

the up
almost idiot proof
point & pull without raising the gun to sight it in

i can make a quick video of mine if u want it

possum
September 14, 2009, 02:37 PM
personally i use lasers for only 2 reasons
1) when i am doing dry fire practice and that is occasionally
2) an IR laser on my work gun which is strictly in the context of military operations.

personally i see no advantage of using a laser for defense.

people say they are great for shooting around corners, and such and you don't have the bring the gun to eye level etc. this might be true for very few applications ie pushing someone behind you etc. child in your arms etc. however when people try to show me why they are so good they are normally talking about / describing home defense type sittuations and they show me how they can stick there arm out around the corner and take shots. however i point out that you still have to espose some part of your head to the threat to see the laser bouncing around on the target for you to know that it is there, then take the shot. this sounds good, but now think about your grip on the handgun. you are gonna have even less control on the handgun that you would if you were already in a bad sittuation using your strong hand. not only are you using one hand but your hand is at about a 90 degree angle there is no way to even come close to line your bones in your hand up at that angle to get any kinda control/ recoil management.

and lets do the what if game. what if you are using a light in conjunction, if it is weapon mounted light and laser you will be better off however what if you are one of the many that think that weapon mounted lights are the worse thing since satan? and you must use a handheld light, now you have the issue of being able to light the target, use the laser and get rounds on target fast and accurately. as well with a light behind cover you have to come out from cover enough so you don't get a bunch of splash back.

so in short i am saying either way you are gonna have to expose yourself to ensure that you are on target.

as well the recoil management is gonna be hampered by your grip on the gun.

a light with regular or night sights might be the best thing for you. laser not so much. and a little low light training might be a good thing to so you can figure all this out before you hear that bump in the night.

swinokur
September 14, 2009, 04:26 PM
I have CT grips on my Glock 30. It fattens the grip but not enough for me to notice and I have average hands. The laser is an adjunct for the iron sights in my opinion. I do try to practice with the laser when I am at the range. Knowing how to do both is important so you don't get dependent on them.

NoleMan
September 14, 2009, 04:36 PM
Just remember, your head is behind the laser...i.e. you're giving the BG a perfect aiming point. Night sights are the way to go, IMO.

possum
September 14, 2009, 04:37 PM
an additional point that i would like to address is that in my personal training i like to be as consistent as possible, that is why i do certain manipulations certain ways etc. not all handguns have lasers is one point. having multiple options is not always a good thing. i personally prefer to train a certain way and do everything the same always ( as far as manipulations etc are concerned, i don't mean drills and such) so that way in my mind there is only one way to do things, so when the time comes i have no option but do it the way that i have always. i try to minimize the amount of options that i have in shooting/ training as much as i can for this reason. i try to take out any inconstancies in my training.

ribbit
September 14, 2009, 05:07 PM
Wouldn't the laser beam refract if it hit windows, glass picture frames, etc? Then the 'dot' wouldn't be at the point the bullet would actually hit.

dairycreek
September 14, 2009, 06:07 PM
I just watch a video form Crimson Trace laser grips. It seams to me that there are a lot of advantages for self defense using the laser. However, what would be the disadvantage for a CCW and does the advantage out weight the advantages? I would like to get a CCW for my wife would it be better then open sights. Does anyone here us laser for CC and what do you think about the extra width? Thanks for all your input, Bill

I just got my first set of Crimson Trace laser grips for a new Ruger LCP. To tell the truth I did it more on a lark than any desire or necessity but I thought "Oh, what the heck. It will be fun"! I learned a lot. First, you don't get rid of your regular sights and you still need to practice with them. Second, when I finaly got the CT sights "dialed in" I was simpy amazed at the kind of accuracy I could achieve! Third, I am impressed at how easy they are to install, sight in, and become competent with in such a short amount of time. I followed the directions and, Presto - the were up and running. Fourth, and finally, I am posessed of a pair of really "aging eyes" and that has become a problem - particularly in low light situations. The CT sights have really helped that situation a lot. So, for me, the laser sight experiences have all been a win, win, win situation.:D

possum
September 14, 2009, 06:53 PM
Wouldn't the laser beam refract if it hit windows, glass picture frames, etc? Then the 'dot' wouldn't be at the point the bullet would actually hit.
this is true unless you were in Lethal Weapon 3 or Sniper 3

possum
September 14, 2009, 06:55 PM
I just got my first set of Crimson Trace laser grips for a new Ruger LCP. To tell the truth I did it more on a lark than any desire or necessity but I thought "Oh, what the heck. It will be fun"! I learned a lot. First, you don't get rid of your regular sights and you still need to practice with them. Second, when I finaly got the CT sights "dialed in" I was simpy amazed at the kind of accuracy I could achieve! Third, I am impressed at how easy they are to install, sight in, and become competent with in such a short amount of time. I followed the directions and, Presto - the were up and running. Fourth, and finally, I am posessed of a pair of really "aging eyes" and that has become a problem - particularly in low light situations. The CT sights have really helped that situation a lot. So, for me, the laser sight experiences have all been a win, win, win situation.
good i am glad that you found something that works for you. with the aging eyes part my i also suggest that you look into a set of xs big dot night sights? i think they would really help you out as well.

Pawpaw40
September 15, 2009, 02:00 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone actually put the little warning stickers on? I saw some pictures on the CZ club thread that showed them.

swinokur
September 15, 2009, 02:52 PM
Stickers-I tried. They looked really dumb. They are included to satisfy the product liability lawyers. I trashed mine. Anyone dumb enough to look into a laser deserves whatever happens next.

:banghead:

Stu

nerfsrule2
October 6, 2009, 01:43 AM
I have them on my Glock model 23...The only downside in my shooting with them is you can not put my G-23 in its regular holster.. (The added bulge is enough to keep it out of my El Paso shoulder holster) my CT grip does not even have an on/off switch.. It makes daylight shooting at targets annoying..The main reason that I have it is to deter anyone that would break into my house.. Maybe a laser dot on them may make them give up before they get shot..

armoredman
October 6, 2009, 02:32 AM
These stickers?
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/PICT0005.jpg

I put them on for photgraphic purposes, and the buggers are really ON there. :)

CTGs work great as a low light aid, and I have been able to use them in AZ sunshine at the 10 foot range, about as far as that goes. Batteries last over three years, I changed mine at three years just to be safe. :) But great indoors.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/fairfightbase-fixed.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/CT6.jpg

Now my wife has a set on her PCR, too. Yeah, we like 'em.

Mr.510
October 6, 2009, 07:18 AM
I don't have CT grips but I do have a laser in the XD45C I carry daily and I like it a lot. It's a Lasermax guide rod laser. It is completely inside the weapon so there are no holster or ergonomic issues. The on-off switch is contained within a special takedown lever and is ambidextrous. I do also have Trijicon night sights and recommend them highly. I got my laser before my night sights but I would do the opposite if I had a "do-over". I mostly shoot outdoors in daylight so I train with the laser very little. Since my laser requires a deliberate action to hit the "on" button I do practice that when working on my draw. I typically go to an indoor range every few months for live fire with the laser. In any conditions where you can see the dot it is truly like cheating.

Remember the Audi Quattro commercial:
"I'll take all the unfair advantage I can get!"
:evil:

Friendly, Don't Fire!
October 7, 2009, 08:18 AM
As soon as I put them on my LCP, I realized that I could shoot in virtually any position if I had to. I could shoot by lying on the floor, and if I have any view of the BG, the red dot goes on him even though I may not be able to bring the gun up to aim it.

That is the main advantage as I see it. The ability to make a well-placed shot without having to hold the gun at eye-level to take aim.

I still shoot using the sights, and with a little practice, the laser button can be either pressed or not pressed at will.

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