[halfded]

Anyone got a good stout load for whitetail in 45 colt? Gonna be shooting from a NEW MODEL vaquero, so none of the real hot "ruger only" loads.

I have Red Dot and 200gr RNFP cast bullets. Most of the Alliant product line is available to me but I'd like to stick with what I've got if I can. Got a nice accurate load with 6.6gr already, would that be sufficient?

4 5/8" barrel by the way.

[Walkalong]

You will want something more along the lines of Unique, or maybe even slower, for a good hunting load in .45 Colt.

The caliber will more than get the job done, if there is any question there.

Oh, and I would recommend heavier bullets.

[zxcvbob]

You won't get there with Red Dot. (I love Red Dot in .45 Colt for target loads)

You might try 255 grain cast bullets with 15 grains of Blue Dot. That's about a 18000 psi load, which exceeds SAAMI specs by about 25%, but I would trust it in a Ruger. Or a case full of blackpowder or 777.

[Sport45]

Can you get your hands on some 250 - 260gr SWC bullets? I believe they would work better than 200gr bullets for hunting. Load them over Unique, Universal, or HS-6, etc working your way up to something less than or equal to published max normal loads.

[Ol` Joe]

I`d go with a good LSWC of 250-300 gr over H110, 2400, or 4227.
Your vaquero is every bit as strong as the SuperBlack hawk and will handle the same loads. If you are a bit shy of the loads for the "Ruger & TC" in the manuals, drop back a bit and use the starting or mid range loads listed.

[zxcvbob]

Your vaquero is every bit as strong as the SuperBlack hawk and will handle the same loads.No it's not.

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO HS-6 under a 255gr LSWC bullet will do the trick. It's a very accurate and clean powder and it works well with lead bullets. It will deliver good velocity and keep the pressures within safe limits.

One question, are you sure a Vaquero with it's fixed sights is the best revolver to use for hunting? Usually a revolver with adjustable sights is a better choice for hunting. With the guessing you have to do with fixed sights you might injure and animal and not finish it off. No hunter what's that to happen...

[halfded]

THe vaquero will be for really close shots and/or the coups de gras if the shotgun doesn't do it's job straight away; that and if it'll take down a deer, most anything else I run into shouldn't be much problem either (I'm in the outskirts of bear country believe it or not). In all honesty I am intrigues with the idea though of taking a deer with my vaquero.

I'd love to have a blackhawk with adjustable sights, but I already have the vaquero and don't need 2 45 colts...unless one of them has a lever!

Anyone in Va wanna swap a vaquero for a blackhawk? :D

[Sport45]

Try the Vaquero with the 250-260gr SWC bullets at "normal" velocities as suggested and see if they don't hit pretty close to POA (point of aim) at 25 yards. I believe you'll find the fixed sights regulated for that combo. 200gr bullets may hit low due to their higher velocity and lower recoil.

Start at the published minimum load. Increase powder charge to bring the POI (point of impact) down. If they all hit low, try a heavier bullet. If they're all high a lighter bullet may help get POI to match POA.

[rcmodel]

I'd try the old standard .45 Colt load of a 250 grain Keith SWC and 8.5 to 9.0 grains Unique for around 900 FPS. It is safe in any Colt SAA or clone, and way safe in the New Vaquaro.
It should shoot to the sights.

That load will shoot clear through two deer standing side by side, leaving a full caliber hole in its wake.

It's all you need for your intended use, and is mild enough to be able to shoot it really well.

rc

[GooseGestapo]

I and a friend have had excellent success with the Lee 255gr RFN over 8.2gr of Universal. This roughly duplicates both the Keith "Unique" load, and the full case of FFFg black powder at 35-40gr in the original blackpowder load.

It produces ~1,000fps from my 5.5"bbl RedHawk and his BlackHawk and is acceptable for use in your NEW mod Vaquero.

It runs to 1,200fps from my 24" bbl Winchester M94 Legacy, and likewise from friends Taurus "Thunderer" pump. Also, is the lightest load that has enough case obturation to keep from getting blow-back from the recievers on the rifle.

We've gotten complete penetration on angling chest, and cross chest shots on deer, and copius blood trails, when deer weren't DRT.

Remember, these cartridge/loads were developed to take a horse out from under a rider in the 1800's......
No need for more bullet weight or velocity. And, it'll likely shoot to POA/POI from your Vaquero, as is.... This is of course the most important consideration.

[halfded]

So the 200 grainers I have now wouldn't work if I loaded them with around 8.6 grains of Universal Clays for around 1,000fps?

[rcmodel]

Not to say they wouldn't work, but a Keith style SWC or other large FP style should work better.

The flat point is what does the killing, and a RN-FP in general will not produce as much tissue damage because the FP is usually smaller.

They are also less likely to deflect off a heavy bone.

rc

[Ol` Joe]

Quote:
Your vaquero is every bit as strong as the SuperBlack hawk and will handle the same loads.

No it's not.

My error, I meant the Blackhawk, should have left the "Super: off.....

[Sport45]

The old model Vaqueros were as strong as the Black- and Red- hawks, but I don't believe the New Model Vaqueros are as robust. Everything I've seen leads me to believe you should avoid "Ruger Only" loads in this Ruger.

[ArchAngelCD]

Lets not get confused about the original and New Vaquero. The original Vaquero was built on the heavier Blackhawk frame and can safely fire those "Ruger Only" loads all day long. The New Vaquero is built on the original older and smaller Blackhawk frame to answer the requests of Cowboy Action shooters who wanted a smaller revolver more to the size of the Colt SAA. (which it now is) The New Vaquero will safely fire any ammo that is within SAAMI limits but should NOT be shot with "Ruger Only" loads that could be fired in the Original Vaquero. (I own both)

[campbell]

The new Vaq is stronger than the old blackpowder Colts. It's not a 32k psi gun the way the large frame Blackhawks are, but it's easily a 20k psi gun. Check out the Accurate Arms data, which has a number of "Ruger Only" loads that top out at about 20k psi. The 255 and 265 data would both work great. If you like LBT designs, the 255 data could also be used to make a load with something like the gas checked 250 grain WFN from Montana Bullet Works.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/reloading.htm

http://www.montanabulletworks.com/

[halfded]

Thanks for all the info guys. I know for a fact that the New model vaquero isn't as strong as the old one, but thanks for the heavy load suggestions.

Gonna try out a 250 grain with 8.8 grains of Universal, which should get me around 900fps. Adequate?

[rcmodel]

As Sarah Palin would say:

You betcha!

rc

[ArchAngelCD]

Please don't forget the range report when you shoot them...

[halfded]

Will do on the range report. The local (40 miles away) shop had primers in stock so I spent my gun-lowance on those, but once I order up some of the bigguns I'll let ya'll know how it goes. Switched my powder choice (if I can find it) to v-N340. Looks to be about the fastest FPS on the list and has the best case fill. I did the math on max charge case fill percentages for 10 different powders for 45 colt if anyone is interested in more extraneous information. I like math.

[zxcvbob]

I'm worried about your comment about case fill, and any calculations you did where N340 ended up on top. (A case 80% full for example of N340 is going to blow up your gun) What exactly did you do? If you want to use an exotic powder, look at N105.

[Sport45]

If you want case fill get a bottle of Trail Boss. Your gun can handle just about anything short of a compressed load. Otherwise it's hard to beat Unique or Universal for non-nuclear .45C loads. In your shoes, I'd stick with the Universal load you mentioned earlier.

[zxcvbob]

Otherwise it's hard to beat Unique or Universal for non-nuclear .45C loads. In your shoes, I'd stick with the Universal load you mentioned earlier. Agreed. Also doen't overlook Herco.

[halfded]

To get my numbers, I took the VMD (weight in cc's) of one grain of each powder, then multiplied it by the charge weight in grains, which in turn gives me the volume of that charge in cc's. I compared that to the useful case capacity listed in Lee's Modern Reloading 2nd edition.

If I am incorrect please let me know where I went wrong. Not using this in place of any kind of published loads, BTW, just wanted to try and find the best powder for my application without buying and trying each one. Like I said, I like math. :D

The way I figgered it, v-N340 gave me, at max charge, 1.20 cc's. The useful case capacity of 45 colt is 1.92 cc's if memory serves me. That was the highest one on the list. It was followed closely by v-N320 (1.10), SR4756 (1.10), and 800x (1.00). The lowest was titegroup coming in at .65. All measurements are in cc's, NOT grains; works with the perfect powder measure from Lee.

[Walkalong]

SR4756 (1.10),
SR4756 is bulky, but very position sensitive. Not good in .45 Colt.

[halfded]

That's one down.. anyone else?

[Walkalong]

N340 is a good, clean burning, accurate powder. It shoots like a laser in medium plus loads in .357. No reason not to try it in .45 Colt. Vihtavuori doesn't show data for heavier bullets in this 95 Manual, but they do in the PDF, available online, which I attached in a zip file.

[Walkalong]

Here is 9.2 Grs of N340 in a .45 Colt case. About .725 air space, minus a bullet.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=104203&stc=1&d=1251331437

[Sport45]

Titegroup doesn't take up much space, but it isn't very position sensitive either. Case fill is more important in bottleneck rifle cartridges than it is in handgun loading as far as I'm concerned.

Not using this in place of any kind of published loads, BTW, just wanted to try and find the best powder for my application without buying and trying each one.

The best powder for the application isn't necessarily the one that has the most case fill. That's only one factor. Other factors are velocity, standard deviation, extreme spread, accuracy, measuring ease, etc. For a hunting load accuracy is the most important factor IMO.

Unique/Universal have been "King of the Hill" under 250-260gr lead bullets in .45C for decades and for good reason. They work. That's not to say that other's won't, but do you really want to be re-inventing the wheel here?

[ArchAngelCD]

AC,
You seem to like Vihtavuori powders. I've never tried any of them mostly because there are no stores anywhere near me who carry them. From the way you talk about them you seem to like them a lot. (prefer them?)

BTW, I know the Vihtavuori powder site has load data files that are from 2006 but I did find current 2009 load data on the Lupua main site. Here (http://www.lapua.com/index.php?id=850) is the link to the 2009 load data, click on "latest edition" in the middle of the page or the link on the far right of the page under download, both links are the same manual, Edition 7. Also, they have caliber specific load data online if you click on "Reloading Database" right under the first link.

Hope this helps you guys...

[Walkalong]

Prefer? Not necessarily. Like them a lot? You bet. I use several different powders, and have tried a great many more. If a Vihtavuori powder is good enough in an application to warrant the extra expense, I'll use it. I bought a 4 pounder of N310 & N320, as I did for Universal Clays some time back, and I also just bought a 5 pounder of AA #2. My next "bulk" buy is going to probably be Clays or Nitro 100. I know Clays will do what I want for a couple of applications, and the 1 pound of Nitro 100 I just got showed some real potential yesterday at the range.

Thanks for the link. I downloaded the latest PDF. It will be interesting to see if any data is changed. AC

[halfded]

but do you really want to be re-inventing the wheel here?

Why not? :D That's how we went from stone..to wood..to wood..to metal..to rubber. All folks reinventing the wheel. Times change, so does technology.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions guys. Gonna start my research probably next month, gotta burn up some of the 200's I just got before I get some 250's. I'll post results when they come in.

Thanks for the measurement on the N340 Walkalong. If you add your .725 and my 1.20 you get 1.92, which is the useful case capacity listed in the manual. Guess my math worked out after all.

[Sport45]

If you add your .725 and my 1.20 you get 1.92, which is the useful case capacity listed in the manual. Guess my math worked out after all.


You might want to take another look a that. I believe Walkalong's .725 was inches of case above the powder. Adding a volume to a length is fuzzy math at its finest. :)

Good luck with your endeavor! I think you'll find loading for and shooting the .45C quite enjoyable.

I've loaded the cartridge with W231, W296, Titegroup, Unique, Universal, and Trail Boss (there may be some I've forgotten). It's hard to go wrong with any, but I always seem to gravitate back to Universal/Unique.

[Walkalong]

I believe Walkalong's .725 was inches of case above the powder.
Yes it is.

I tossed that case back in with a few more "test" cases, so I can't measure that exact one, but I just measured a RP case from that test batch, and it measures 1.102 (we'll call it 1.100) case capacity. The case was 1.275 long.

So, 1.275 minus the .175 web = 1.100 minus .725 = .375

So, I have .375 of powder & .725 of air space. That air space will be lowered by the amount the bullet is seated into the case.

My Ranier 250 Gr TrFP I have been shooting in it is .645 long. I am seating it at 1.555. My brass was 1.275, so the bullet is .365 into the case.

1.275 + .645 = 1.92 minus 1.555 = .365

.375 powder & .360 air space = .735

.375 divided by .735 = 51.02040816 etc

Powder takes up 51% of the air space.

Assuming I got it right. :p

I usually just eyeball it and guess. :uhoh:, but 51% looks just about right. :D

[halfded]

Way to go Walkalong, cleared that up now didn't you! Nice work.

Sport 45, just out of curiosity, how much, if any, difference in recoil did you get trying all those different powders?

[Sport45]

Sport 45, just out of curiosity, how much, if any, difference in recoil did you get trying all those different powders?

That's hard to say. My Redhawk is good for the "Ruger Only" stuff so I've had to try them. A stiff load of W296 under a 260gr SWC will let you know it went off. For the normal pressure stuff I can't say I can really tell a difference between the powders. I can tell more when I change bullets. I've run 200gr SWC, 215gr SWC, 230gr LRN, 230gr RNFP, 250gr RNFP and 260gr SWC. Anymore, I only shoot 260gr SWC over 8gr of Unique or 7gr of Universal. One of my sons is a recoil junky and prefers the W296 loads.

I will qualify all this to say that I don't hunt and it doesn't take a lot of power to poke holes in paper.

[halfded]

I'm a bit of a recoil junky myself and am currently on the hunt for a good attention getter myself. I've only had the chance to try 2 powders though, so not much to go on. Using the same 200 grain bullet I could tell a noticeable difference between trailboss and red dot. Just picked up the Lyman manual though, that should be of some help. It has a free recoil equation in the back that I wasted some time on last night. There wasn't much difference between a 200 and 250 grain bullet with the same powder, but changing powders changed the end result a bit.

[RMc]

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL%20246partial.pdf

[revolverman357]

I've taken deer at 45yds with a 7 1/2" Ruger Vaquero (not "New Vaquero").
255gr SWC and 13gr Blue Dot at @ 1050fps.