[jsalcedo]

Remember Applebees?

Dear Mr. Garner:

I have been forwarded your e-mail of October 16, 2003 for response regarding our sign regarding handguns at the Lewisville Hooters restaurant. While we certainly recognize that for you or any other Texas citizen to acquire a Concealed Handgun Permit, you must pass certain background checks as well as written and physical tests, we nonetheless prefer to take the steps we deem necessary to ensure as much as possible the safety of our guests and employees. Moreover, because each Hooters restaurant serves alcoholic beverages, we believe that the consumption of alcohol and the presence of firearms is not a very good combination. While I am sure that you are responsible in your carrying of firearms, it is a sad fact that many people are not. It is for these as well as other reasons that Texas Wings, Inc. has installed the signs like the one you saw in Lewisville

Please do not hesitate to contact me with any questions regarding our policies.

John B. Gessner, General Counsel
Texas Wings, Inc.

jgessner@texaswings.net

Thank you,

Ace Garner

[LCSNM]

In NM, you are not allowed to carry in any establishment that serves or sells alcohol. 4th degree felony for doing so.

Exception: LEO on official duty and Liquor Lisc owners or leasees for the protection of themselves and or their customers. Been there done that, after getting stabbed.

[GLOCKT]

Its a law,in an establishment when 51% of it revenues are based on alcohol sales,then its a gonna get a sign in the window everytime.

[jsalcedo]

Hooters does not have a 51% sign and in Texas you can carry where alcohol is served.

This guy just thinks CCW'ers are a bunch of irresponsible drunken cowboys and has banned them from his restaurants.

[cslinger]

So are you telling me that Hooters makes only 49% of its revenue from alcohol?

I mean I believe you but I woulda never thunk it. It really wouldn't matter to me as I am in TN and can't carry in an establishment that sells alcohol and to be quite honest I simply cannot have Hooters wings or other foods unless they are washed down with a frosty pint or two.


Chris

[willyjixx]

who and what are the texas wings.

i have a feeling thats not right wings

[GLOCKT]

Thats the law in Indiana,but I never see the signs either here.A condition for recieving CCW here.
Its just a automatic gimme for me.I cant afford a $4.25 beer here.Much rather save a couple more bucks and go to the range.

[P95Carry]

we nonetheless prefer to take the steps we deem necessary to ensure as much as possible the safety of our guests and employees. Ok ... I'm not TX but this is what pi$$es me .. making the statement ''the safety of our guests and employees''.

Come on ........ let's leave out any percentage factor .. 51% or whatever .... does he realize (and we've been over this countless times) ... he MUST then assume FULL responsibility for the safety of his patrons ..... or, have a damn great sign up making a disclaimer .... that'd be good for business!:p

Does he ... and his ilk ....... stop to think what might occur if the wonderfully law-abiding (not) BG should wander in for a wing or three ..... and then decide to raise 7/10 of hell for amusement .... cos he will carry regardless.

Unless they go to lengths of metal detectors, this guy ain't gonna play the game ........ so the safety of all could be compromized.

here we can go into bars etc ... tho it would be unwise to do so of course for any serious drinking of alco ... but for a snack and a soda ... no problem. I almost wish a place or two round here would try this stunt ... oh my - would we give em hell. But then it's unlikely cos they are used to the way things are .... pretty damn safe.!

[Jack T.]

So. He doesn't mind if you drive yourself to hooters, get totally blasted, drunk off your barstool, then drive home. That doesn't endanger his "patrons". But the guy who goes in with buddies to eat dinner and watch the football game (and happens to be a CCW), DOES endanger his patrons. . .

Things that make you go "hmmmm".

[MaterDei]

I'm in Texas too, jsalcado, and will gladly participate in a letter writing campaign similar to the one for Applebees, just for the principle. With Hooters, however, you're going to have a harder time getting the ground swell of support you did with Applebees. No offense intended but many people feel that Hooters is just a white trash establishment that people shouldn't be going to anyway. It is the WWF of restaurant chains.

[Mannlicher]

Pesonally, I dont much care what kind of sign folks hang outside their place. I carried for 30 years before there was any CCW, and I will continue to be the one that sets my agenda, and the one that makes the call on what I feel is prudent or not.

[Doc]

For me it's simple: no hooters
and an email telling them why.

let them be the next Luby's...

[El Tejon]

GLOCKT, what's "the law" in Indiana???:confused: What on earf are you talking about?

Time for Tejas-sized THR power to activate! Go git 'em (a little Tejas lingo), Texas!

Doc, good to see you around, my friend.:)

[auschip]

Email sent, I may live in Vegas, but I still own land and a house in TX.

[Black92LX]

is this a hooters policy or just that one??

[chadintex]

Is it a legal sign or one of the "No Guns" signs?

[aerod1]

I sent a respectful email expressing my opposition to the Hooters anti CHL policy. I told them my dollars will be going to their competitors who don't restrict our right to personal protection.

Jim Hall

[lazarus long]

Isn't "Hooters" a strip joint masquerading as a restaurant? Very likely the managment wishes to attract your basic alcoholic street vermin with low inpulse control.

As in all posted businesses, a 30.06 sign is a good indication that real people would be better off staying away.

[morganm01]

What I wrote:

"In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit a crime. They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime."
(Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September, 2000)

Are these the same people you don't want in your place of business? I will be sure to tell the 500 sailors on my Naval ship that the US Constitution they defend with their lives is in no way respected by your establishment. They will likely show you the same respect. You guys have at least 2 locations here in San Diego I believe. You are going to make a major financial mistake here. At this time many Pro-Second Amendment groups are coordinating to make known the Hooters policy. The NRA alone has over 4 million members. Please reconsider.

Most mass shootings occur in gun-free zones such as your restaurant. Schools, post office's, government buildings, most prohibit carrying a concealed weapon. Where was the last mass shooting you heard about?

Me

[Black92LX]

ahh what the heck i fired one off too:

I have recently been informed that you do not all the carry of concealed handguns by law abiding citizens in your resteraunts. This is kind of scary considering you are just advertising to criminals that you are an easy target for criminal activity. I reside in Ohio which at this point in time does not allow concealed carry, but I will stand firm with my 2nd Amendment Bretherin and not give my business to your establishments. I will also suggest to the car clubs that I am inovlved with not to hold their cruise-ins at Hooters. I have a problem giving my support to an establishment that does not stand for the Constitution of the United States. The very document that can make your establishment possible. By giving you the power to fully and freely run your bussiness.

[Standing Wolf]

I don't do business with anti-Second Amendment bigots— and Hooters isn't my style, anyway.

[spacemanspiff]

i can count on one hand the number of times i've been to 'hooters' restaurant. and i can guarantee you that i never intend to go there again. if i want to ogle attractive women, i'll go to an appropiate venue, not a 'family restaurant'.
when the 'hooters' up here first opened, they had some commercials aired, that showed a family eating, kids and whatnot, then it cut to a table of men staring at the waitresses chest. exactly what message is being sent? bring your kids and stare at something your wife doesnt have?

thank god for the great alaska bush company!

[BluesBear]

Each Hooters is an independently owned franchise.

In this case it looks like Texas Wings has a franchise on several locations.

So let't not blame the entire chain for the moronic actions of a few.

[w.Clark]

I was just in Hooters here in Salt lake City and the waitress was definitely packing a couple of 38's

[Andrew Rothman]

Snort. Good one.

Hey,everyone, I have just two words for those of you writing letters: SPELL CHECKER!!!

A poorly written letter, or one that makes you appear less educated, may only reinforce the stereotype of the iggerant gun-totin' redneck.

[Bill Hook]

Too bad that a GRAMMAR CHECKER is also a good idea. Unfortunately, most really botch the syntax.


As to Hooters, the food is tertiary (even quaternary) as most customers are there to get their fill of T&A, then booze. I've had some wings a from there a couple times, which was enough for me.

[V-fib]

Mpayne that’s: ignorant
:cool:

[t-stox]

oh my GAWD! try bringing a pistol into a bar in NY and its a class b felony.(im from L.I.) You do it in texas and they say sorry you gotta go home?! I hope you F-ing cowboys appreciate your freedom! Or me and whiney Schumer will take it away! as to Hooters-- maybe it's a non-ocean place (texas) thing but, why pay through the wazoo for crappy food and beer to look at T&A when you can go to the beach and see the same T&A for free?:what:

[fivepaknh]

Well I’m not going to get on my high horse and trash the theme of this restaurant. I happen to like beer, buffalo wings and pretty, well endowed women. Though when they stomp on my second amendment rights that’s a different story. These restaurants might be individually owned, but they carry the name Hooters, and the corporate office could apply pressure to this one location for shedding them in a bad light.

[Orthonym]

Maybe sober people should be allowed, or even required, to carry firearms in places where everyone else is drinking.

[MissileCop]

Maybe Mr. Gessner should be politely reminded of Luby's Cafeteria.

After all, all of their patrons were unarmed, and look what happened to them.

Hmmmm....(evil thoughts running rampant :evil: ) maybe I should send him a t-shirt that says "A gun free zone is a victim rich environment" :what: :D

[Thumper]

maybe it's a non-ocean place (texas)

You have a very interesting take on geography. Remember, maps can be your friend. :D

Anyway, how about we spend less time discussing the merits of Hooters and more time writing emails. By this time in the "Appleby's" thread, we already had them begging our forgiveness.

Send your emails to this guy, please.

Mpayne...I agree.

[foghornl]

I can count on less than 2 fingers the times I have been inside the local Hooters.

However, I have driven through the lot a few times on Thursday evenings (Biker Nite) Don't ride anymore, but lotza flashy moto's

[MacPelto]

Each Hooters is an independently owned franchise.

In this case it looks like Texas Wings has a franchise on several locations.

So let't not blame the entire chain for the moronic actions of a few.

This is true. However, getting the corporate bigwigs involved is the single best way to put pressure on the local franchise. Local franchises answer to the corporation, and letting the corp. know that ALL of their locations will start losing money will definitely get a response. If you remember the Applebee's thing, you may remember sending emails to the corporate HQ as well as the local restaraunt. With this in mind -

http://www.hootershotline.com/contact.asp

hooterspr@hooters.com

You don't have to live in TX to put pressure on this franchise holder! Concievably, your email will have more weight if you DON'T live here, since Hooters HQ will see it as widespread, not as a local deviance. It's worth a 2 minute email, no?

[HankB]

Hmmm . . . so Hooter's did it for safety purposes? Presumably on the advice of counsel?

Perhaps a letter thanking John B. Gessner, General Counsel,
Texas Wings, Inc. for accepting personal, individual, liability for the safety of patrons his recommended policy has disarmed would be in order?

Along with an inquiry as to the amount of personal liability insurance he carries?

[bogie]

If Hooters is a strip joint, then it's the tamest strip joint I've _ever_ seen.

They do have decent burgers, and they keep their beer cold. I'll grouch at 'em.

[Daniel T]

but, why pay through the wazoo for crappy food and beer to look at T&A when you can go to the beach and see the same T&A for free?
Because I don't like sand in my wings and beer?

Question: Is Hooter's displaying a "No Guns" sign or a 30.06 sign? There is an important difference.

Regardless, I'll be making my displeasure known.

[cordex]

Done.
Don't go there myself, but added my voice.
Mr. Gessner,
An associate living in Texas has informed me that Hooters restaurants owned by Texas Wings in his area have put up signs prohibiting law-abiding customers from carrying concealed weapons for self protection while dining in your restaurants. If this is a so-called "30-06" sign which prohibits carrying handguns into a business that makes 51% or more of their profits from alcoholic beverages, I can understand that you are simply following state law. If, on the other hand, this is simply an arbitrary decision to prohibit certain people from visiting your location, I would like to ensure you are aware of my objection.

I have some questions for you on this subject.
1. Is this policy intended to have any effect on franchises outside of Texas or not owned by Texas Wings?
2. Does Hooters (or Texas Wings) take legal responsibility for the safety of its disarmed customers while they are dining there? What provisions are taken to ensure this safety?
3. Is it the belief of your company that someone who has passed State and Federal background checks, and follow the laws that govern them are a threat to other customers or employees?

I'm saddened that you no longer wish to do business with myself or a large group of law-abiding and responsible citizens, but I will respect your decision to refuse my patronage for whatever reason. I'm also offended that you would imply that because I choose to take responsibility for my own safety I am a threat to your employees or customers. Until and unless these signs are removed, I'll find somewhere else to spend my money. Moreover, unless I can determine that I am welcome at a specific location, I will avoid Hooters restaurants in general.

I am also forwarding a copy of this email to Hooters Corporate.
Thank you,
Ben Swenson

(Recycle!)

[Deepdiver]

Pesonally, I dont much care what kind of sign folks hang outside their place. I carried for 30 years before there was any CCW, and I will continue to be the one that sets my agenda, and the one that makes the call on what I feel is prudent or not.

..Mannlicher, you have echo'd my sentiments exactly!! Well said!

besides, I have only been to a hooters once, and the food sucked, and the service stunk. I wouldn't go back even if they hung a "Welcome CCW's" sign on the front door.

[TonyB]

That's why it's called CONCEALED!!!
or just skip Hooters all together...like me.:cool:

[hops]

I wonder if their concern in regard to CCW and Alcoholic beverages also applies to Drivers License holders with car keys and the consumption of same beverages at their establishments?

Hmmm. Maybe I'all ask them...

[Vic303]

Let's all include a TSRA "no gun=no $" card in our letters--btw, mailed letters usually have a greater impact than emails.

[bogie]

Hey, if they hear the _right_ message from enough folks - Remember to keep pressure on their corporate folks too - not just the fellow in Texas...

====

I've always liked Hooters - good food, cold beer, hot wings, not to mention my abiding affection for owls - in general a fun place.

But I won't be back.

At least until your restaurants remove the "no concealed weapons" signs. All this sign does is bar lawful permit holders, who are literally certified by law enforcement as being responsible adults with no criminal records, from entry. The sign will do nothing to bar criminals who, being criminals, won't pay attention to it anyway. Can you attest that all of your employees, from CEO on down to that fellow who wrestles around with those big bowls of wings, can prove that they're not criminals?

I'm in St. Louis, and we're currently in a legal battle to join the other 44 states, including Florida and Texas, who allow civilian concealed carry. These other states haven't had problems with civilian concealed carry, and I'm confident that Missouri will be no different. I don't mind if a Hooters is in the position of having 51% of its income from alcohol - that's the law, and should I decide to eat there, I won't have a problem with leaving a lawfully carried firearm in my automobile (after all, that's the 51/49 rule), but the moment that you decide _on your own_ that my business is not welcome, hey - I can find good food elsewhere. Granted, I may have to make a few compromises regarding wings, breasts (grin), etc., but that's the way it is. My personal safety, and the safety of my friends and family, is more important. When you put up one of those signs, you are announcing to the world that your restaurant, and the patrons, are easy targets for criminals. Are you prepared to increase security, both in restaurants and in parking lots?

While not a "regular," I am likely very representative of your target demographic. I'm the bachelor from hell, and regularly eat at local restaurants, Hooters prominently among them, often with friends who live nearby, anything from wings on, and until I hear differently, we'll likely be driving past Hooters to others who welcome our business.

Chuck Bogardus

[Silver Bullet]

Maybe they could distinguish the restaurants that accept guns by changing the name to SHOOTERS.

[bogie]

Bumpage, folks - Let's keep this active, and flood their mailboxes...

[sm]

cordex, hope you don't mind , but I mirrored your letter and used it.
Neve been in Hooter's...I have been in joints on Harry Hines Blvd tho's many years ago ;) oops
Though I dont' drink, I don't have a problem eating in place that serves alcohol, I have friends that drink, hey If I'm driving I usually get my tea/coffee free.
In AR we finally changed our CCW to allow carry in restuarants that serve drinks.

Then again there was a time a pc of paper wasn't even needed, here, TX, most places...concealed is concealed. In Houston on business with some LEO asked if I was carrying, I didn't answer, we walked into the bar, got a cheeseburger talked about case. His theory was, concealed was concealed ,just a couple of guys having a meal, shooting pool in jeans...waiting for another LEO so...

If I'm a BG I now know I can rob a guy and or ( family) because he can't carry, if with his buds he has other things on his mind, or the wife is gonna raise cain when he gets home...great, condition white, unarmed...perfect place for a BG to be waiting. Maybe Hooters will pick up the tab when he sues...

[cordex]

re1973,
That's fine. It was a slightly adapted version of the letter I posted to the Steak 'n Shake thread.

You did change the name, didn't you? *grin*

[auschip]

Other then the first letter, has anyone received an answer? I requested a list of all the Hooters (is the plural of Hooters Hooti?), they manage so I could make sure and respect their wishes and not dine in those areas.

Jsalcedo, how long did it take for them to get back to you the first time?

[sm]

cordex;
nah, figured I might need a alias someday :D

Yes I changed it a bit and used my name, thank you for allowing me to do so without permisson.

ps, you "might" be getting the fall catatog from LLBean tho'...:p

[DJJ]

The Three Great Truths of Religion:

1. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Son of God

2. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian church

3. Baptists do not recognize each other at the liquor store or at Hooters


Just a joke... :uhoh:

[Covey Rise]

Cold Expensive Beer, Hot Wings, Burgers, fried shrimp, and at my local hooters young friendly girls mostly in college.

[BluesBear]

In Washington State, Hooters is OK for CPL since it is primarily a food establishment that also sells beer. No hard liquor sold in Hooters up here.

Washington law states that you can't carry into;

RCW 9.41.300 (1) (d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age.

Since Hooters is a "Family" establishment my 15 year old son and 17 year old daughter can go anywhere they please inside Hooters in pursuit of Wings, Burgers and Baseball.

There are none of those silly "Gun Free Zone" signs up here but then I don't think they can. I don't know the politics of the local owners/operators up here but perhaps y'all could sayin your letters to the HQ that there has been no problems in any of the Hooters in Seattle, Washington where decents folks with CPL are free to dine at will.

As for me I am writing to HQ and asking them what the difference is between a law abiding citizen in Washington State as opposed to a law abiding citizen in Texas. (No wise cracks y'all :neener: )

[wahsben]

We should all inform Hooters that if any of us or our loved ones are injured or killed while dining in their restaurants because we are unable to defend ourselves that they will have a huge lawsuit on their hands for intentionally making us vulnerable to the criminal element.

[Jeff OTMG]

Texas Wings is the corporation that owns all the Hooter's franchises in Texas. No corporate stores here. There is another large franchise in Louisville, Ky., RMD, who own the stores in Oh, In., Ky, and Tn.

I was at Hooter's for lunch Tuesday in Austin, will be again on Thursday, and there was no 30.06 sign. I was at two different stores in San Antonio a week and a half ago and there were no signs. The Texas Hooter's DO have a no guns sign up that would apply to unlicensed possession, but nothing against licensed carry. A 30.06 sign in the Lewisville store would be unusual. I have a friend here whose last day at the Austin Riverside store is 11/7 and she is starting at the Addison store, which, like Lewisville, is in the Dallas area and I will have her check. I have never seen a 30.06 sign in any Hooter's.

I was at the Indianapolis Speedway store on Friday and Saturday and there were no signs.

[Hawk]

Hooters Arlington (Collins), Grapevine and Irving have the "no unlicensed" sign up, which I presume means "licensed welcomed".

Haven't seen a 30.06 in the mid-cities but haven't made a point of searching it out.

[BluesBear]

I know the guys who ARE RMD and they're very nice guys. I used to do work for/with them

I have carried into several of their restaurants (they also own some restaurants other than Hooters) and I have never heard any anti-gun statements from them.

In fact my genuine, well made, wooden Hooters tall stool is one of the things that I brought from KY to WA when I moved. (It was a gift)

[Logistar]

I carried in the Hooters in Louisville, KY (Preston HWY location) and did not notice any signs. - it was about a month ago.

FWIW
Logistar

[feedthehogs]

No offense intended but many people feel that Hooters is just a white trash establishment that people shouldn't be going to anyway. It is the WWF of restaurant chains.


When I did my 2nd amendment radio show a couple of years back, there was a Hooters down the street from the station that we frequented after the 6pm end of show.

It gave me an opportunity to explain what I did and ended up giving several of the girls classes on shooting and cwp.
Because of their good looks and the way they dressed, some were being followed and others had abusive boyfriends.

Most were earning money to buy a house or working for college money.

Food was always good and most of the resturant patrons were dressed in suits.

This is not a morality issue which some expressed. Its a CCW issue.

Like a wise preacher once said, you don't save souls preaching to the choir.

[Black92LX]

I recieved an generic e-mail in regards to the letter i sent them.

Dear Mr./Ms./Dr. [Last Name]:

We at the Hooters Hotline received your comments today regarding the
poor quality of service you experienced at our restaurant in (City),
(State), on (Date). We genuinely apologize for the dissatisfaction your
Hooters visit caused and appreciate your taking the time to write us.
Feedback such as yours helps us identify ways to improve in our continuous
quest to deliver the ultimate Hooters guest experience.

In order to address your issue(s) thoroughly, we have forwarded your
comments to Hooters of America's headquarters for direct follow-up with
you. Our desire is to make Hooters once again your choice for terrific
food, beverages, and fun.

Thank you, (Mr./Ms.) [Last Name], for sharing your comments. We
apologize again and look forward to serving you in the future.

Should you like more information about us, please visit us on the Web
at www.hootersofamerica.com.

Sincerely,

Rasheedah
Hooters Hotline...We give a Hoot!

P.S. Please retain your Thread ID in the message body. This will help
us locate your information should you need us again.

[bogie]

Folks, if you haven't e-mailed 'em yet, now's the time to do it.

[cordex]

Still haven't gotten a response to mine. Waiting for fullness is.

[Black92LX]

took 3 days for mine

[Jeff OTMG]

I went to the Austin Riverside store today, a Texas Wings store, no 30.06 sign. I will try to hit Lewisville on Sunday night, I find it odd that only one store in the entire Texas Wings organization would be posted. None of the corporate stores nor the 7 RMD stores I have been to have ever been posted either.

[bogie]

Got a response - they're on the "do not eat at" list as of now...

====

In that case, I will no longer be patronizing your restaurants. That is my choice.

You obviously do not respect, or value, us very much. Since I value my safety, I avoid businesses which advertise that their patrons are disarmed - these businesses, and anyone seen entering or exiting, are easy targets for robberies, attacks, etc., by the very people who choose not to pay attention to the signs - criminals.

I suspect that it is actually the criminals, the people who cannot pass the background checks required to receive a concealed weapons permit, who you are concerned about. If it'd make you feel better, why not just put up a sign that says that _illegally_ concealed weapons are not permitted? It'll have the same bottom line effect, but it won't alienate those of us who are NOT criminals.

If you actually think that a sign makes a difference in safety, next time you're on an interstate, drive the speed limit, and count the number of cars that pass you.

Looking back at the past year's receipts, I eat out way too much - probably over $100/week. Given your current policies, that $100 will no longer be spent at Hooter's.

-----Original Message-----
From: Hooters Support <hooters.support@na.ko.com>
Sent: Nov 3, 2003 3:44 PM
To: bogie7@mindspring.com
Subject: RE: Signage

Dear Mr. Bogardus:

We at the Hooters Hotline received your comments today regarding our concealed weapons policy. Thank you for taking the time to send us your comments. Guest feedback is always welcome at Hooters.

In areas where concealed weapons are allowed, we do post a sign that says firearms and other weapons are not permitted on the premises. Thankfully, it is a choice we have the freedom to make. We respect those customers who decide not to patronize our business because of this decision.

We do hope that this information is helpful. However, if you would like more information about us, please visit us on the Web at www.hootersofamerica.com.

Thanks so much for writing, Mr. Bogardus. We appreciate your interest and look forward to seeing you in one of our neighborhood restaurants soon.

Sincerely,

Stephen
Hooters Hotline...We give a Hoot!

P.S. Please retain your Thread ID in the message body. This will help us locate your information should you need us again.

[THREAD ID:1-52U0RZ]



-----Original Message-----


From: aaleshire@hooters.com
Sent: 10/29/2003 2:30:35 PM
To: "Good Answer" <hooters.support@na.ko.com>
Subject: Signage



Alexis Aleshire
Marketing
Hooters of America
1815 The Exchange
Atlanta, GA 30339


-----Original Message-----
From: bogie [mailto:bogie7@mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 12:27 PM
To: jgessner@texaswings.net
Cc: Alexis Aleshire
Subject: Signage


I've always liked Hooters - good food, cold beer, hot wings, not to mention my abiding affection for owls - in general a fun place.

But I won't be back.

At least until your restaurants remove the "no concealed weapons" signs. All this sign does is bar lawful permit holders, who are literally certified by law enforcement as being responsible adults with no criminal records, from entry. The sign will do nothing to bar criminals who, being criminals, won't pay attention to it anyway. Can you attest that all of your employees, from CEO on down to that fellow who wrestles around with those big bowls of wings, can prove that they're not criminals?

I'm in St. Louis, and we're currently in a legal battle to join the other 44 states, including Florida and Texas, who allow civilian concealed carry. These other states haven't had problems with civilian concealed carry, and I'm confident that Missouri will be no different. I don't mind if a Hooters is in the position of having 51% of its income from alcohol - that's the law, and should I decide to eat there, I won't have a problem with leaving a lawfully carried firearm in my automobile (after all, that's the 51/49 rule), but the moment that you decide _on your own_ that my business is not welcome, hey - I can find good food elsewhere. Granted, I may have to make a few compromises regarding wings, breasts (grin), etc., but that's the way it is. My personal safety, and the safety of my friends and family, is more important. When you put up one of those signs, you are announcing to the world that your restaurant, and the patrons, are easy targets for criminals. Are you prepared to increase security, both in restaurants and in parking lots?

While not a "regular," I am likely very representative of your target demographic. I'm the bachelor from hell, and regularly eat at local restaurants, Hooters prominently among them, often with friends who live nearby, anything from wings on, and until I hear differently, we'll likely be driving past Hooters to others who welcome our business.

Chuck Bogardus

[MaterDei]

Bogie, wow, he blew you off as a customer without any concern whatsoever.

Jeff OTMG, are you still going to claim that they don't have an anti policy?

[cordex]

Yup. Got the same message as Bogie.

As with Steak 'n Shake, I replied that they hadn't answered some of my questions and listed 'em. We'll see how they respond to that.
Thankfully, it is a choice we have the freedom to make. We respect those customers who decide not to patronize our business because of this decision.
Very, very accurate.
Count me as one of the latter.

[bogie]

Guys, this is all the more reason to e-mail these folks, and let 'em know that they're screwing up.

I don't care if you'll never set foot in one. I don't care if you can't legally enter any place in your state that serves so much as a drop of beer while CCWing. I don't care if you don't like their food, their attitude, their "costumes," or even their owls...

I also don't care if you're a duck hunter, a once-a-year deer hunter, or if you just want to have your grandpop's 85 year old .32 revolver in your nightstand for protection.

I don't care if you just shoot paper, or just hunt, or wouldn't lower yourself to shooting anything less than a $10K skeet gun at your sporting clays.

This isn't about my state, your state, or any particular state. It isn't about any particular restaurant. It's about rights, and about a group of people being singled out, and treated as criminals.

You're next.

[Jeff OTMG]

You are apparently in contact with Hooter's of North America. This thread is about the policy of Texas Wings. In Texas it is legal to carry a rifle, shotgun, SBS, SBR, AOW, or machine gun, loaded or empty, open or concealed, in Texas. It is NOT legal to do so in a place that sells alcohol, whether it be for on premises consumption or not. Sign or not, it isn't legal.

If you have a CHL for a handgun you may carry into those places unless they derive 51% or more from sales of alcohol for on premises consumption or have a valid 30.06 sign posted. jsalcedo started this thread and has not returned for nearly a week and he never said that they had a 30.06 sign posted.

I have been to corporate stores in Oklahoma as well and they have no gun prohibited signs posted. I will go check again this coming weekend.

In Texas putting up a 30.06 sign is the kiss of death to your business. My son worked for Blockbuster and his store saw a noticable drop in revenue when the signs went up. He knew what the problem was. When the signs came down, revenues returned. In Texas the same thing happened at Target and JC Penny.

[Greybeard]

Well, I remember a few years back the Pastor at our church in Lewisville throwing a hissy fit over Hooters coming to town. Being forty-something and never having been to one, I went by for lunch one day just to see what the big deal fuss was over ... Pretty nice "scenery" I guess, but I was not necessarily impressed with the food. 'Guess I musta needed more than just that one beer. ;)

Anyhoo, I went home and told The Wife I'd seen enough to believe that Brother Ben would probably have a heart attack on the spot if he ever went a little further down the road and saw some real "exploitation of young women". But, I determined some years ago that a man does not really need to frequent places like that ... However, since I only live about 10 miles from the Hooters in question, I might just need to swing by there for lunch one day this week - to examine some signs of course. :D

[BluesBear]

In the e'mail from Stephen to bogie;
In areas where concealed weapons are allowed, we do post a sign that says firearms and other weapons are not permitted on the premises.

Is it me or is that a coflicting statement.

In the areas where they are allowed we post a sign saying it's not allowed.





I know what he was trying to say, but he didn't say it well.:neener:

[jsalcedo]

jsalcedo started this thread and has not returned for nearly a week

Sorry guys busy week, The Texas state rifle association has posted the info on their site about the policies of these particular stores.

I figured since we did such a good job with Applebees Texas wings could use a dose of our medicine.

Thanks all and keep those Emails rolling.

[Jeff OTMG]

Was the sign posted a 30.06 sign or the unlicensed possession one? If it was a 30.06 I will try to have it removed or at least find out why it is the only Hooter's in Texas that I know of that has one.

[txgolfer45]

I went to the Hooter's in Lewisville this evening. There are two official signs that talk about unlicensed carry being a felony.... bla, bla. bla.

Below those two signs is an orange sign with large black lettering stating that handguns are not permitted. It is not a 30.06 sign. No "Pursuant to section 30.06..." language at all.

So............................ Without legal signage, looks like CHL holders can carry there as we are licensed to carry.

BTW, I left my CW in the car locked up just in case the signage was proper. And, no, I didn't go back and get it before entering. But, next time, I won't have to worry about it. I'll walk right in!

Scott

[cordex]

txgolfer45,
Okay, so you could walk in with your piece, but ... why support someone who doesn't want you to defend yourself?

[txgolfer45]

I had a craving for some wings... We have a WingStop near my house, but the scenery isn't as nice.

Scott

[MaterDei]

txgolfer45 is taking the LOW road. :(

[JDSlack]

here's an e-mail I sent to Mr. Gesser...

Mr. Gessner,
I have become aware of the policy of your chain of resturants to refuse service to those patrons carrying concealed firearms. I am sure that this decision was made with the best of intentions. Please advise me if the information I have received is correct, because if so, I will make sure that the 3000+ members of the Miami-Dade (FL) Police Benevolent Association, and the over 2000 members of the Miami-Dade Police Department's Retired Officer Council are aware of this policy, and cease patronizing your establishments. It is a requirement that all Miami-Dade Police Officers be armed at all times, even off-duty, and all members of the Retired Offciers Council have state issued concealed weapons permits. I am sure that, as enforcer's of the law, thay would not wish to risk violating your policy.
James Slack
Retired Police Lieutenant, Miami-Dade Police Department

P.S. it's a shame, I really like your wings.

[txgolfer45]

MaterDei,

Our email and letter writing must have had an effect. While I never saw the 30.06 sign before, it isn't up now. Only the "Unlicensed carry" signs plus the nonconforming Handguns aren't allowed sign remain. I definitely would feel better if the non-conforming sign was gone.

Scott

[MaterDei]

txgolfer45,

I hope you're right. However, I'm not sure there was ever a 30.06 sign, jsalcedo never responded to that question. What say you, j?

Regardless, I think the fact that they should have any sign at all is an indication that they don't support our rights and, therefore, should not be supported. That is a personal decision, however, and if you decide to continue to go there regardless of their anti attitude, that is none of my business.

From my perspective, if a company or organization has indicated that they are anti in any way, that is enough to keep my money away, even if they haven't met the legal requirements to force me away. For example, companies like Ben and Jerrys and Levis, which obviously can't prohibit me from buying their products due to the fact that they don't control the stores that their products are sold at, still don't get my business because of their policies and actions.

Happy Thanksgiving,

MaterDei

[Marko Kloos]

While I am in complete agreement with the points made in this thread, y'all seem to be missing the point.

They know perfectly well that those signs are non-sensical and ineffective for keeping armed criminals off the premises.

The only reason they're there is liability. If someone has an AD with their CCW and kills or injures another patron, the "No Guns" sign serves as a legal shield against lawsuits. They're there because of the corporate lawyers, who figure that the potential liability for NDs greatly outweighs the potential liability for robbed or murdered staff or patrons.

[MaterDei]

Then is it OK for someone to post a legit 30.06 sign for liability purposes?

[CleverNickname]

If they're in charge of the property, they can post a 30.06 sign for any reason they feel like. Marko was just trying to give a possible train of thought as to why they'd post it.

[Andrew Rothman]

From our experience in Minnesota, I truly believe that some businesses try very hard to have it both ways:

They post a delibertately nonconforming sign, placating the fright-ninnies, knowing full well that permit holders will know enough to ignore it.

Okay, maybe it's cowardly or not supportive of our cause, but neither is it very detrimental.

I am mostly content to simply walk past non-compliant signs, knowing that the owner is either phenomenally stupid or giving me a wink and a nod.

[Jeff OTMG]

The non-conforming no handguns sign is to prevent unlicensed individuals who are legally carrying a handgun (the 'travelling' exemption) from entering the restaurant.

The 'unlicensed possession' signs prohibit the legal carry of rifles, shotguns, machine guns, and other unlicensed carry firearms, which are not prohibited from carry in Texas. In Texas the only firearm that cannot be legally carried regularly is a handgun, unless you have a CHL, or meet certain other criteria.

This is where it is illegal to carry a HANDGUN in Texas without a CHL:
§ 46.02. Unlawful Carrying Weapons
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a HANDGUN, illegal knife, or club.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages
(Note: It doesn't matter if it is for on or off premises consumption)

Fortunately in this section it spells out when the rules don't apply:
§ 46.15. Nonapplicability
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(3) is traveling;
BUT 46.02 only references handguns. The 'unlicensed possession' sign covers all firearms, but only handguns sometimes. The other sign covers unlicensed carry of handguns.

All the info can be found in Texas Statutes here:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0004600.html#top

None of the signs is a 30.06, never was. The Appleby's situation was ENTIRELY different as they posted a valid CHL prohibiting 30.06 sign. This whole thread about Texas Wings has been a waste of time and effort because CHL carry was never banned.

[MaterDei]

I'm not sure how you know what the INTENT of Texas Wings is in posting their signs, Jeff, but I know for certain that their General Counsel does know their intent. In fact, he made their intent very clear in his letter. He clearly intends to prohibit CHL holders.Dear Mr. Garner:

I have been forwarded your e-mail of October 16, 2003 for response regarding our sign regarding handguns at the Lewisville Hooters restaurant. While we certainly recognize that for you or any other Texas citizen to acquire a Concealed Handgun Permit, you must pass certain background checks as well as written and physical tests, we nonetheless prefer to take the steps we deem necessary to ensure as much as possible the safety of our guests and employees. Moreover, because each Hooters restaurant serves alcoholic beverages, we believe that the consumption of alcohol and the presence of firearms is not a very good combination. While I am sure that you are responsible in your carrying of firearms, it is a sad fact that many people are not. It is for these as well as other reasons that Texas Wings, Inc. has installed the signs like the one you saw in Lewisville

Please do not hesitate to contact me with any questions regarding our policies.

John B. Gessner, General Counsel
Texas Wings, Inc.

[BluesBear]

Sounds like liability-CYA-mumble-jumbo to me. Notice that their response had to go through their lawyers to make sure it was worded correctly.



What they really mean is this;
While we certainly recognize that for you or any other Texas citizen to acquire a Concealed Handgun Permit, you must pass certain background checks as well as written and physical tests, we nonetheless prefer to take the steps we deem necessary to ensure that we lose as little money as possible in any frivilous lawsuits that might occur. Moreover, because each Hooters restaurant serves alcoholic beverages, we believe that the consumption of alcohol and the presence of firearms is not a very good combination. While I am sure that you are responsible in your carrying of firearms, you must know how stupid many of our customers can get after we have served them too much alcohol. It is so our corporate buttocks are covered that Texas Wings, Inc. has installed the signs like the one you saw in Lewisville.
:neener:

[mountainclmbr]

My guess is that John B. Gessner is wearing those little orange shorties.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Gee, and to think that I never drink when I'm carrying.

Of course, I don't suppose I'll start going to Hooters anyway. No money from me.

Regards,
Rabbit.