Kahr PM9 or Springfield XD 9 Sub Compact


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trimore
August 24, 2009, 11:38 PM
I think I have narrowed it down to these two. The larger list included the Glock 26, Kel-Tec PF9, Walther PPC, Glock 19,

My goal is a gun that can be used for HD as well as CCW for my wife and I on occasion. For HD, this will be in addition to a shotgun. I think in the future a full size or compact such as the Glock 19 or XD Compact will be purchased but for now, I am limited to one.

I can get both guns for about the same price. I found the PM9 NIB locally for $459 which appears to be about $100 to $150 lower than normal. I can get the XD for $460 plus FFL. So both are about $500 out the door.

-From a firepower standpoint, the XD wins by a large margin due to being a double stack with a 13 and 16 mag.
-From a safety feature standpoint, the XD wins with it multiple safetys.
-From a CCW standpoint, the Kahr appears to win due to it smaller size especially how narrow it is. I have not been able to hold both at the same time. The XD feels more comfortable for me but the Kahr is not bad.
-From a quality standpoint, research leads me to believe that both are of good to high quality. Maybe the XD is designed to pack more rounds over time?????
-From a value standpoint, the XD packs more in for the same money and there is more firepoint per $ for sure. On the otherhand, the local shop seems to have a excellent deal on the PM9 and that may be the best deal of the two. Seems like I could buy it and sell it immediatly and make 50 to $100. I need to confirm the model number and make sure something is not amiss such as it being the CW even though the tag said PM.

So the conflicting points that I see are firepower (# of rounds) vs better CCW due to weight and size.

Besides the what fits and test shooting as neither are available locally to shoot, what comments, corrections to my points, etc do you have...

Thanks.

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kdstrick
August 24, 2009, 11:50 PM
I have a PM9 and it's very accurate with the polygonal rifling, and I find the trigger to be fantastic, as compared to the XD trigger. I almost bought an XD a while back, but I just don't think I'll enjoy shooting it with the trigger being both heavy and mushy (to me anyway). Lots of folks love their XD's.

Still, you should get whichever one feels better to you.

DougDubya
August 24, 2009, 11:55 PM
You seem to have more comfort with the XD, relegating the PM9 to "okay" - that plus the other factors you've pointed out which have made the compact more attractive to you all add up to giving the PM9 one last chance in direct comparison.

Dollar An Hour
August 25, 2009, 12:31 AM
Depends how often you really plan to CCW. The Kahr carries much easier than the XD9, so you're likely to bring it along more often.

If you don't carry often, the XD9 is the better bedside gun, although if you know how to use a shotgun for HD, the handgun isn't very important anymore in that role.

ezypikns
August 25, 2009, 12:36 AM
I can't speak for the XD9, but the PM9 is probably the most easily concealable 9mm today. I carry mine in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster. The holster is sort of tacky on the outside so it never comes out of the pocket on a draw.

I can carry it anywhere in any type of clothing and it's completely inconspicuous. It just sort of disappears

The PM9 has a great DA trigger. Very smooth. It also takes a pretty fair amount of concentration to get good accuracy. A short sight radius like that isn't very forgiving accuracy wise.

The PM9 also is a little difficult to control without a very firm grip. I've fixed that somewhat by adding a wrap around adhesive grip called an "A-Grip". Makes the pistol very easy to hold, even with sweaty hands. I've also replaced my mag floorplates with Pearce Grip Extenders.

If you want a pistol that carries easy, it's a good choice. And 500.00 NIB is a good price.

DeepSouth
August 25, 2009, 12:44 AM
I have a .40 XD Sub-compact and recently bought a KAHR PM45, and the overall quality of the KAHR is superior, hands down. It has about the same recoil even though it is a larger caliber and quiet a bit lighter. It is more concealable to, it doesn't hold th round count a XD does and is a bit more tricky to disassemble.

I say get them both, But I'd get the KAHR first.

Gav-n-Tn
August 25, 2009, 01:08 AM
I know this is probably just a one in a million deal, but a friend of mine finally got the Kahr he wanted and the sucker broke with less than 100 rounds through it. It left a funky taste in my mouth for Kahr. His too apparently. He got rid of it as soon as it came back. I know a guy shouldn't go off of that but it's hard to shake it off when it happens to someone you know and it's not just 3rd party hearsay.

chris in va
August 25, 2009, 01:36 AM
Kahr all the way. I had an early XD9, couldn't stand the mushy trigger. The PM9's trigger is smooooth. You may want to get a Handall Jr for it though as the checkering is quite harsh.

My K9 continues to impress me with it's ease of accurate shooting and thin profile. I just use a Clipdraw, reasonably comfortable for IWB carry.

There have been reports of issues on the polymer Kahrs, but they back up their product and will fix any glitch after the 200 round break-in period.

trimore
August 25, 2009, 06:29 AM
Thanks everyone. The easy answer is definately to get both. :) Overnight, I thought of an additional point. I was not thinking that I would not carry as often but would definately like the option but.... I run and bike quite often. You would not believe how many stories I have read of cyclers or runners getting assulted just because some group of idiots thinks sees that you are vulnerable or some craziness...... Also, the encounters with dogs are much increased due to the running and cycling. So this adds another plus for the Kahr.

jocko
August 25, 2009, 07:38 AM
good guns, only one willride in your front pocket and the PM9 will do it perfectly. If you want alot of "safety" stuff on ur gun ge the xd, personaly the kahr is designed with a loooong trigger as your safety, such as holding a J frame smith, no safety's there either, just keep ur finger outta there.

I have never owned or shot the xd but read alot of good things about them but they are a waist band carry gun, no doubt about it. Which to me menas I have to dress to carry, I won't do that. My PM9 ride sin my jeans front pocket 24/7 and has for the last 3 years. You won't even know it is in there. fully loaded it is 18 ounces,not sure what the xd is fully loaded, My guess 24+ ounces at least. You will know it is there.

Longivity. Well my PM9 has now over 24,000 rounds through it and it has never broken down, or let me down. It is my range gun also. I tend to want to shoot what I carry.

PM9 for me any day..
Kahrs today are good to go out of the box. One hardly reads anymore of any issues with the polymer kahrs. those bugs IMO are gone, although I never say never. It can happen to any gun. IT HAS HAPPEND to all brands. Kahrs service is excellent..

trimore
August 25, 2009, 11:04 AM
Well, bummer. I went to the shop where the PM9 was and found that it was actually a CW9.

So, on the search again.

trimore
August 26, 2009, 11:01 AM
I did find a Kahr PM9 locally for about $550 plus tax. Still a little undecided though. The reality is that two or even 3 guns for different purposes would be better.

I am not sure where my wife lands on supporting more than 1 handgun. She already made it clear that she did not want me to become a collector or make this another hobby. I have a tendency (and so does she) to dive in head first and come up for breadth later and we both are trying to reduce that in our life. It leads to mistakes and waisting time and money. She does not want that to happen with this and I don't disagree.

Not real sure where she stands on CCW either. I have asked her to read cornedcat.com and I know she will but it is not much of a priority for her right now. I don't really want to push but would rather let her find her way with some guidance. We are going to take a CCW in the next few weeks together and after that I may have a better idea.

With that said, I did just find a very, very good deal on a lightly used Glock 26 with Crimson Laser Grips and put a offer on it. I figured that I could easily make $100 in profit with the price of it if we don't like the G26.

BushyGuy
August 26, 2009, 11:07 AM
i would prefer the Kahr cuz they are pretty accurate and prestigious guns.

MCgunner
August 26, 2009, 11:15 AM
If you want to conceal it, the PM9 will do home defense as well as it will do anything else and it'll be a gun you'll carry always. Firepower means little to me, but then, I have a revolver mind set. I do carry a KT P11 double stack pocket size gun, though.

Anyway, I think little compact 9s are awesome for carry. "Prestigious?" ROFLMAO! It ain't a custom 1911, ya know. :rolleyes: It's a real world carry piece. It combines 9x19 +P power with accuracy in a pocket gun. That, in itself, makes it the choice of these two for me. But, just because it's expensive, don't make it "Prestigious". I don't rely on prestige to defend myself with, anyway. I rely on skill with my choice of CCW. But, then, that's JMHO.

ArmedBear
August 26, 2009, 11:21 AM
Much as I like XDs in general, the Subcompact is, well, not so subcompact.

That would be my decision-maker. Try to conceal it at the store.

scurtis_34471
August 26, 2009, 11:42 AM
I own an XD-40 Service, an XD-40 Subcompact and a Kahr P9 Covert (PM9 with a 3.5" barrel instead of a 3" barrel).

The XDs are dead reliable. I've got about 5000 rounds through the Service with ZERO malfunctions. I couldn't even make it malfunction by intentionally limp wristing it. Dirty? Doesn't matter. I put almost a thousand rounds through it in the desert over four ten hour days at Front Sight without cleaning it. It never hiccupped. XDs are damned near indestructable, have great ergonomics and the triggers are decent once you break them in and get used to the way they feel.

The Kahr is about the only gun I ever actually carry anymore. It is small, thin and lightweight. It disappears in a pocket holster or an IWB holster and is extremely comfortable to carry. The gun is extremely reliable if kept clean. The tight clearances of this gun mean that you have to clean it at least every 200 rounds or you will start getting FTEs. That said, it has never malfunctioned when clean. The Kahr has an excellent trigger, surprisingly light recoil and is one of the most accurate guns I own. It is more accurate than several of my full-sized guns, including the XDs (by a small margin).

I keep the XD in my bedside table with a SureFire flashlight. I use the XD for pin shooting and IDPA. The Kahr is my carry piece. Best of both worlds.

geronimo509
August 26, 2009, 01:26 PM
How about a Kahr MK9?

wild cat mccane
August 26, 2009, 01:56 PM
Jocko,

I am convinced you are the luckiest Kahr owner in the world.

or you work for Kahr.

Every single Kahr thread on the internet has you in it praising your 17k round PM9.

You are wrong however when you say you can't find Kahr issues in the PM9. Glocktalk.com's kahr club had one recently in fact.

I had a PM40 a year ago that was new as of 08. Past the IA serial number that gets thrown around so much, and...it wouldn't work.

Sent it to Karh. Replaced everything on it. So that means it was broke in my mind.

Got it back, first shot, broke the mag follower, slide locked up. they tested it fine.

Sportsman's Warehouse took it back without a hassle at all. It was that obvious it was broken, along with the paper work from the day before from Karh that said it test fired fine.

I do not believe their polymers are fixed. I can not find one change that they made when the IA serial numbers came out.

jocko
August 26, 2009, 03:15 PM
wild cat: not doubt you got a bad one, best to do what you did, as you would never be pleased. I don't work for kahr, own 3 of them and my PM9 does not have 17 K through it, It has 24 K through it. My k9 has 4500 through it and my little P380 about 1250. Most today do not give issues, Polymer or steel. Polymers outsell stell version abut 10 to 1, percentage wise you will read more about issues with the polymer.

I can go on any webb site and find negatives about glocks also or sigs, Just the nature of the beast so to say. Most who own good working guns never post, those who get a lemon will post on every forum if they can. My postive posts are there to give a reader a second view also, instead of a post like yours where you indeed had troubles.

Kahrs are great guns, IMO one of the best ccw guns on the market, course all of mine work flawlessly. YMMV.

I am not married to any gun, if it doesn't work right I will give it one trip back to the factory to get right, after that I will peddle it and move on. I owned a Para carry 9 a very expensive 1911 style 9mm. It was dead nuts accurate and one of the finest lda triggers systems around BUT 3 times back to the service center to get it runnibng right before I could then sell it. Lots of people swear by Para's to, I got a lemon, no more, no less. Not sure I would buy another one due to my previous experience but I read many great reports from para owners.

Never seen the perfect gun made yet either. I read the glock talk kahr section and indeed that is a good forum, and I would expect to see kahr issues posted on a KAHR site. That is what it is there for to. I have no problem with that what so ever. Most gun sites are posted by owners of guns with issues. Some are asking for help, many can be helped without sending the gun back to the factory to. Read more issues on the 1911 forums than any forum but those guys seem to accept the fact that when you buy a 1911 that some tweeking must be done, not on all but alot of them.

I owned 3 kt products to and sent them back 17 times before I could get them right enough to sell. Read their forum, they still have issues but those kt people love their guns and seem willing to file, sand, buff, grind and send um back to kt for service. Ruger recalled every one of their over 50,000 380 lcp's for issues. today it is a great little pocket rocket. My point is that none are immune to issues, .

smoke um if u got um!!!

bigfatdave
August 26, 2009, 04:16 PM
When we were last gun shopping for MrsBFD (she wanted a new CC pistol), we hit up a rental range for some serious test driving.
We shot a bunch of guns, and the best were the Kahr pm9 and an XD9sc. Both were extremely broken in range rental guns.
MrsBFD packs an XD9sc now, based on ergonomics, price, and the grip safety. I'll probably end up with one of my own at some point, but the Kahr just didn't make either of our hands happy the way the XD does.

Do you have somewhere to rent pistols? It can save a LOT of frustration to rent, it is worth every penny to us, as it can help avoid accidental safe queens.

trimore
August 26, 2009, 04:22 PM
"Do you have somewhere to rent pistols? It can save a LOT of frustration to rent, it is worth every penny to us, as it can help avoid accidental safe queens. "
I know of a few. I have checked one location but need to check on 2 others to see what they have. The 1st did not have any subcompacts to rent.

bigfatdave
August 26, 2009, 05:17 PM
Renting a full-size XD would give you a rough idea, but the CC size would be better if possible. I don't think the Kahr line has an equivalent in duty-size.
Know anyone with guns?

jocko
August 26, 2009, 06:08 PM
the closest thing to it would be the kt pf9 in size and weight, certainly not in quality or price..

boxingRef_Rick
September 13, 2009, 05:19 AM
Hi.

95% of the time, I actually chose to carry my Kahr P45 over the XDSC 9mm.
Simply because it is so much easier to carry. and it's so easy to hide AIWB.
Your choice for the PM9 will be even easier!

Of course with the lower number of rounds, you may be in trouble when the
Zombies, or a large group hyped up teenagers overrun you position (sic!)

That is actually why I purchased the XDSC 9mm. To have extra rounds, but
so far - I still choose to carry the Kahr.

"Maybe I'll try the M&P SC next, to see if it carrys any easier?"

Stay safe!

PS. I've owned four, or five Kahrs' - with only one memorable "fail to eject"
with my original PM9 manu moons ago!

76shuvlinoff
September 13, 2009, 07:08 AM
Much as I like XDs in general, the Subcompact is, well, not so subcompact.

I'm on my 3rd XD, this one is an XD40sc and although they are great reliable guns I couldn't agree more with the above statement From Armedbear.
One of these days.... (soon I hope) I intend to get a small Kahr in 9mm or 380 and see if it proves as reliable as my XDs have.

trimore
September 13, 2009, 07:12 AM
Thanks. We chose the PM9.

After holding both at the same time I realized the XD SC was much larger. For me to the main advantage of the XD was the # of rounds as well but if it is too big to carry, what is the point.

jocko
September 13, 2009, 07:38 AM
and u made an excellent point to.. I think u made the right choice. Bopth good guns, one willjust not fit what your requirements were..

Grayrider
September 14, 2009, 07:48 PM
Late arriving here, but I agree on your choice. The PM is much flatter and easier to conceal as others have noted. I have a P9 and it is my main carry in warmer months. It just vanishes in a good holster, such as the Crossbreed Super-tuck. Flat and quite smooth. Mags are flat too, so it is easier to carry a couple in your pocket. Don't get me wrong, I love XDs and have two but mine are full-sized. For CCW when I really want optimal concealment I always drop to a single-stacked pistol.

John

m2steven
September 14, 2009, 08:08 PM
I have 2 kahrs and the are both exquisite pieces of machinery. If you shoot the kahr and then shoot the other gun, you're going to want the kahr. Unless the other pistol is a 1911.

Those who say both are obviously correct however.

Guns and more
September 14, 2009, 08:09 PM
I don't consider the PM-9 a pocket gun, but that's just me. It's a little big for my pockets.
Having said that, the PM-9 in a small IWB holster is the perfect carry piece. I wanted to like the XD, (they get good reviews) but it felt too blocky in my hand.
I love my PM-9, but I've got a Sig P-238 on the way. It never stops.

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