.416 Remington Magnum for whitetail deer?


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ijosef
August 25, 2009, 12:12 PM
Okay, let's assume that someone is going deer hunting this upcoming season. Let's also assume that they have a Winchester Model 70 chambered for .416 Rem Mag. Let's suppose this person took down a medium-sized buck or doe with the aforementioned rifle. How much overkill would the .416 Rem Mag be for deer?

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Precision Paper Puncher
August 25, 2009, 12:13 PM
about .166 overkill

MCgunner
August 25, 2009, 12:41 PM
I'd just load it down. One thing's for sure, you have enough gun. It will do the job. :D

Sam1911
August 25, 2009, 01:04 PM
How blue is blue? How up is up? Probably 90% of the calibers routinely shot at whitetail deer are more powerful than they need to be to do the job. So what?

If it's what you have and you shoot it well, it will work fine. If your shots land where they're supposed to it won't destroy any more meat than a .30-'06, or a .30-30, or a .243, etc.

Now, MCgunner makes a good suggestion: there's no need to shoot elephant loads at a deer. Get yourself the lightest expanding bullets and load the cartridge as close to its minimums as you can (while still producing good accuracy) and you'll be just as successful without beating yourself up pointlessly.

Try this: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=736259

It's lighter than most .416 slugs at 350 gr. and it is designed to expand at lower velocities.

-Sam

Arkel23
August 25, 2009, 02:05 PM
It isn't over kill, because the bullet is so big and slow it wouldn't do more damage than a .243 pushing a fast bullet to let you deer run off. You get a in and out hole same size in, same size out. It will be virtually no meat damage compared to a .243 or a .308. It is designed for big buffalo, so it won't expand like a regular deer bullet.

Art Eatman
August 25, 2009, 05:11 PM
And once again, dear hearts, leaping into the breech: If you don't shoot Bambi in the eating part, you don't ruin meat.

Do NOT aim "somewhere in the brown". Don't. Do. That.

A .416 will break Bambi's neck. A .32-20 will break Bambi's neck. So will anything in between them.

Neck meat ain't really the choice stuff, okay?

:D:D:D, Art

usmc1371
August 25, 2009, 06:22 PM
Just a tat more overkill than my 375hnh, the way i figure it the 300g nosler partition out of my 375 won't have much of a chance to expand in a deer so as long as I stay behind the sholder and not ON the sholder the shot shouldn't really ruin any more meat than my 06 with the cheap corloks I normaly shoot. Besides whats the point of owning a big ass rifle it you aint going kill things with it.

Asherdan
August 25, 2009, 06:34 PM
Besides whats the point of owning a big ass rifle it you aint going kill things with it.

Damn straight to that!

I don't believe in overkill, dead is dead. You can ruin meat with just about anything, but you have the answers for that. As has been suggested, choose your bullet, load level and shot placement and have at it.

627PCFan
August 25, 2009, 11:50 PM
a .416 is a MINIMUM for East Coast Whitetails.




*please denote sarcasm*

jbkebert
August 25, 2009, 11:55 PM
And once again, dear hearts, leaping into the breech: If you don't shoot Bambi in the eating part, you don't ruin meat.

Do NOT aim "somewhere in the brown". Don't. Do. That.

A .416 will break Bambi's neck. A .32-20 will break Bambi's neck. So will anything in between them.

Neck meat ain't really the choice stuff, okay?

, Art

I think this says it all. I aim behind the shoulder with a bow, for anything else it is neck shots.

KenWP
August 26, 2009, 12:07 AM
I know from frist hand experience that 416's and such don't do anymore damage and sometimes less then useing a smaller caliber. The bullets for the large calibers hold together rather well and just punch nice neat holes through things. I have seen a deer shot with a small caliber and it took out the whole side of the deer and it ran off in the bush and buried its self and died. We are talking a hole the size of a garbage can lid. I hunt with a 375H&H all the time.

SHOOT1SAM
August 26, 2009, 12:29 AM
The .416 Rem. Magnum is a terrific varmint round!! :D

I would think that if one were doing this, a solid would be the best choice. If the shot isn't through the neck or behind the shoulder, a solid is still going to bring it down, but without expanding and tearing up the meat.

Sam

Robert Wilson
August 26, 2009, 12:40 AM
I shoot hogs and the occasional deer with expanding rifle bullets (usually Woodleigh softs) in .416 and .510 diameters. They don't damage much more meat than do the smaller calibers. Remember we're only talking one or two tenths of an inch, and the smaller calibers often expand more violently than the larger ones. I never use the neck shot because it's too easy to foul it up. I understand that it works for others and have no problem with it for people that can reliably bring it off, but I don't trust myself with it. The shoulder shot is such an easy and reliable shot that I count on it for everything. The net meat loss rarely amounts to more than a couple of hamburger patties.

blackops
August 26, 2009, 03:33 AM
Anything over 300 is way too much. Personally I use a 270 for deer. I don't think there is a better cartridge for deer. A good shot will drop em and doesn't tear up the meat.

scythefwd
August 26, 2009, 04:44 AM
blackops,
Are you talking powerlevels or diameter? Your .270 will create a larger exit hole on deer than a low powered round like the 7.62X39 or a BT .30-30.

moooose102
August 26, 2009, 08:58 AM
don't worry, be happy. the deer definitly will NOT be! the 416 remmy will do the job nicely. way better over kill, than under kill! in reality, it probably isn't any worse than shooting a 45/70 govt 405 grain at a deer! a big hole, is a big hole.

MCgunner
August 26, 2009, 11:45 AM
Wonder what sort of molds, gas checked molds, are available in .416? A nice, heavy flat point at 1500-2000 fps or so would be in .45-70 territory. Bonus, expensive brass would last a LONG time and ammo would be cheap. Would take a bunch of research and shooting over the chrony and for groups, of course, that THAT'S a tough gig. :D

Sam1911
August 26, 2009, 12:35 PM
This one would be a good choice.

350 gr. Flat Point, gas-checked.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=282505

-Sam

Asherdan
August 26, 2009, 12:57 PM
Being a 45-70 guy, I really like the way MCgunner is thinking there. That would be a fun and useful project to work up.

Robert Wilson
August 26, 2009, 09:12 PM
I use the RCBS bullet mentioned by Sam. It is the only factory mold in .416 (.418/9 in reality) that I know about. It is a pretty good bullet. My only complaint is that they don't always feed smoothly in magazine rifles. I have worked up loads for it with several different powders. 1500-2000 FPS is easy with any of the slow pistol powders like 2400 and H110, but fillers are necessary. Since TrailBoss came out I have used it exclusively for practice loads in the big guns. A case full is good for about 1700 FPS in the .416 Remington with a 24" barrel.

PotatoJudge
August 26, 2009, 11:32 PM
I'd use WT hunting as a good way to get used to the rifle under field conditions before taking it out on a big game hunt. You take your gun out after a grizzly and you'll appreciate the familiar feeling of that particular rifle.

blackops
August 27, 2009, 03:49 AM
blackops,
Are you talking powerlevels or diameter? Your .270 will create a larger exit hole on deer than a low powered round like the 7.62X39 or a BT .30-30.

I've seen the exit holes and they are marginal compared to others. A 30-30 is a brush gun. In it's time it was great, but that time has long past and there are too many cartridges that are superior to it now. Honestly the cartridge almost annoys me and I'm tired of hearing about it period. My father has seen a guy shoot at a deer and miss twice with the 30-30 at 100yds, after that he put his crosshairs on him at 200 yds and dropped him with the 270. Made the guy sick to his stomach and probably hasn't used it since. As for the 7.62, I'm sure it would do a good job, but I'm just not a fan of using military rounds for hunting. That's just me though.

Sam1911
August 27, 2009, 09:09 AM
A 30-30 is a brush gun. In it's time it was great, but that time has long past and there are too many cartridges that are superior to it now.

I know what you mean. Ever since they came out with the new tougher Whitetail v2.0, the .30-30 just won't knock 'em down. Back in the day, a whitetail deer was only a thin-skinned 90-150 lb. animal that could easily be killed at up to 200 yds. with almost any mild center-fire cartridge. Nowadays, wow. Those up-armored, moster brutes will scoff at anything that doesn't say "WSSSSM" on the label!

Honestly the cartridge almost annoys me and I'm tired of hearing about it period.

I know what you mean. I think if anyone else ever says ".30-30, .35 Rem., .257 Roberts, .243 Win., .30-'06, .270, .32 Win, 7x57mm, or .303" to me I'll probably just puke on his shoes. You can't call yourself much of a hunter if your cartridge doesn't say "RemChesterSuperSuperSuperShortDoubleUltraMagnum" on it.

My father has seen a guy shoot at a deer and miss twice with the 30-30 at 100yds, after that he put his crosshairs on him at 200 yds and dropped him with the 270. Made the guy sick to his stomach and probably hasn't used it since.

OoooooH! I HATE it when somebody uses a .30-30 and it does that to them! I'm surprised he didn't wrap that rifle around a tree! I know he probably didn't realize when he picked that gun up that the .30-30 cartridge would make him miss at 100 yds, but I'll bet he cussed it good when it showed it's true colors that day. What a LOUSY cartridge!

As for the 7.62, I'm sure it would do a good job, but I'm just not a fan of using military rounds for hunting.

Again, I feel you! .45-70, .30-40 Krag, .30-'06, .303 Brit., .308 Win (7.62 Nato), 7x57 Mauser, 8mm Mauser, and so on, might have been adequate to kill a 150-200 lb. man in the trenches of the battlefield, using FMJ military ammo, but they're just unethically poor for killing a 90-150 lb. deer in the kind of field conditions we face these days, with soft-point/expanding bullets.

People need to get with the program!





:evil:
-Sam

Deer Hunter
August 27, 2009, 09:34 AM
Thank you, Sam. You have kept me from ripping into the aforementioned post so hard it'd ripple the force.

Here's my Quick Guide to Deer Huntin' Cartridges!

1. Do you know how to operate this rifle/shotgun/pistol? If the answer is yes, move to number 3. If no, 2.
2. Pick a different rifle/shotgun/pistol and repeat 1.
3. Do you have practice/feel confident in your ability to accurately place your shots with this rifle/shotgun/pistol while under the stresses of "Buck Fever"? If so, go to 4. If not, back to 2.
4. Is the cartridge the rifle/shotgun/pistol is chambered in legal to hunt with in your state? If so, go to 5. If not, back to 2.


5. Congratulations! You now have a proper hunting rifle! Now get off the forum and go fill a freezer.

Sam1911
August 27, 2009, 09:43 AM
Thank you, Sam.What can I say? I don't know no better... my parents were Aggies.

:D

-Sam

MCgunner
August 27, 2009, 10:28 AM
I've seen the exit holes and they are marginal compared to others. A 30-30 is a brush gun. In it's time it was great, but that time has long past and there are too many cartridges that are superior to it now. Honestly the cartridge almost annoys me and I'm tired of hearing about it period. My father has seen a guy shoot at a deer and miss twice with the 30-30 at 100yds, after that he put his crosshairs on him at 200 yds and dropped him with the 270. Made the guy sick to his stomach and probably hasn't used it since. As for the 7.62, I'm sure it would do a good job, but I'm just not a fan of using military rounds for hunting. That's just me though.

Actually, the .30-30 kills like lightening out of a 10" Contender. So, I guess that long barrel of a rifle slows the bullet down or something. :rolleyes: I've also killed 'em quite dead with the 7.62x39 from an SKS at 80 yards face on shot. If you're bud there can't hit a deer at 100 yards with a .30-30, he ain't gonna do it with a .300 Win Mag. The recoil will scare him. It ain't the cartridges fault the guy is a lousy shot unless maybe he can't handle the recoil. :rolleyes: I shoot it in a pistol and have killed deer DRT at 100 yards. That Pistol will group ten rounds into 3" at 200 yards, too, embarrass a lot of rifle shooters. The ol' .30-30 is an inherently accurate round. I have a buddy with a pre-64 94 that will group near an inch at 100 yards with a Williams receiver sight. Amazing gun, that one. My SKS groups about 3" at 100 and that, frankly, is minute of deer shoulder.

Yeah, there's lots of more powerful choices than the .30-30 now days, but the .30-30 is still wildly popular, in the top five in sales of hunting ammo. Why is that if it won't get the job done? It's not the cartridge I'd choose in West Texas and New Mexico, but it works as good as my 7mm Rem Mag down here with less meat damage. I can't see more'n 150 yards where I hunt through the brush and high grass.

Military cartridges? You don't hunt with military cartridges? .30-06 ring a bell? My own favorite is the 7.62x51 NATO, or you might know it as the .308 Winchester. How's about 7x57, 8x57, 6.5x55? You think they're not enough? You got some learnin' to do, I'd say.

blackops
August 27, 2009, 03:34 PM
Wow somebody took the 30-30 comment a little personal! hahaha Get over it, both of you! If your going to say you can knock down deer all day at 200yds with a 30-30 your simply lieing! Your 30-30's are JUNK for hunting!!! I like some of the classic lever 30-30's and they are great guns, I just wouldn't take them hunting...simple. I'm not saying they can't kill an animal, do you understand that? I'm saying I personally have a lot of better choices that I prefer. So keep that JUNK in your closet when it's hunting season!!! :neener:

shaggy430
August 27, 2009, 03:42 PM
So keep that JUNK in your closet when it's hunting season!!!

Blackops, you and I will go into the woods and have a little contest. You take your .270, scent-lok, gum-o-flage, and snobbish attitude and I'll take a 30-30, a flannel shirt, blue jeans, and use the wind to my advantage and we'll see who comes out with a deer.

blackops
August 27, 2009, 03:46 PM
Military cartridges? You don't hunt with military cartridges? .30-06 ring a bell?

No, I don't, like a said before. Yes,the 30-06 does ring a bell, that's why I don't own one!!! I never said the 30-30 can't kill a deer, I know this cartridge has proven to be effective over a looong time. I just simply don't like it. Why do I have to like what you people like? Get over it!!!

Sam1911
August 27, 2009, 03:51 PM
If your going to say you can knock down deer all day at 200yds with a 30-30 your simply lieing!

So...you're saying that you can't hit a deer sized target at 200 yds with a .30-30?

Son, that's not the kind of thing I'd readily admit on a public forum. Unless I was asking for lessons in basic marksmanship. Do you need some help?

[EDIT: Or are you saying thay YOU can, but anyone else who says they can is "lieing?" You say "200 yds" like it's half-way to the moon!]

I guess I should keep quiet as I don't own a .30-30.

...


My sister has had that gun for the last decade or so. Ironically, she *can* hit deer with it...

I could check and see if she lives close enough to you to offer to give you some training.

[EDIT: I apologize. This is blatant teasing, and not very "High Road" of me. Sorry.]

-Sam

shaggy430
August 27, 2009, 04:00 PM
Blackops is a woods ninja. He doesn't need to use a rifle on deer. He bounces through the treetops and comes down on them with a samurai sword. He is barely visible except for the logos all over his camoflage.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 27, 2009, 04:01 PM
Is blackops the gum o flage man? It starting to all make sense now.

Your 30-30's are JUNK for hunting!!!

LMBO, you just gave me my new sig line; thank you, sir!! :D :D

I think we just located Gecko45, SPECOPS, & Gunkid's long lost 4th brother! :eek:

Sam1911
August 27, 2009, 04:07 PM
Yes,the 30-06 does ring a bell, that's why I don't own one!!!

Out of curiosity, what does this sentence mean?

The phrase "ring a bell" usually denotes that the object of the phrase is familiar to the speaker. If the fact that the .30-'06 is familiar to you is the reason you don't own one...how do you hunt? :confused:

Do you only hunt with cartridges of which you are completely unfamilliar? If so, what's the turning point? If you've hunted with an unfamiliar cartridge once, is it then familiar to you? Does it now "ring a bell," therefore requiring you to go out and find yet a new, unfamilair round to hunt with?

This is going to get expensive! If anyone ever sends you a copy of Cartridges of the World you'll never be able to hunt again! :eek:

:D

-Sam

Sam1911
August 27, 2009, 04:14 PM
Your 30-30's are JUNK for hunting!!!
LMBO, you just gave me my new sig line; thank you, sir!!


Hey, knock it off with the jokes! It's perfectly reasonable for someone to feel that the most common hunting round in the free world (arguably) is not adequate to kill the most fragile, easily taken game animal anyone ever hunts anywhere.

I mean, 50 million hunters certainly can all be wrong. Probably are, actually. Heck, it's nearly certain.

-Sam

BMF500
August 27, 2009, 04:14 PM
LOL!!! All of that stuff above is great! I needed a good laugh today. To the OP, go for it man!! Post some pics of the wounds too!! I don't see anything wrong with using a .416 on white tail.

Yellowfin
August 27, 2009, 04:21 PM
A bit like taking a top fuel dragster to drop the mail in the mailbox at the end of the street when a bicycle will do just fine...

Arkansas Paul
August 27, 2009, 05:44 PM
Nicely done Sam.
As to the .416 discussion, in the words of Bob Hagel, "There's no such thing as overkill."
Hey, if your shoulder and wallet can take the pounding, go for it. I think I'll stick with the .280 and the 06 though.

MCgunner
August 28, 2009, 12:04 PM
Wow somebody took the 30-30 comment a little personal! hahaha Get over it, both of you! If your going to say you can knock down deer all day at 200yds with a 30-30 your simply lieing!

I can do that with a .30-30 12" pistol. No brag, just fact. Call me a liar, I'll take your money if you show up for the bet.

Oh, and BTW, the .270 is nothing more than a .30-06 with a smaller bullet. 70+ year old cartridge in its own right. I'd have thought it "obsolete" now days. :rolleyes:

MCgunner
August 28, 2009, 12:13 PM
Hey, if your shoulder and wallet can take the pounding, go for it. I think I'll stick with the .280 and the 06 though.

Yeah, well, that's the MAIN reason I'd down load such a beast with cast bullets, but also would be very effective as any .45-70 shooter can attest.

Oh, darn, .45-70 is a military round, guess it bounces off deer. :rolleyes:

:D

.333 Nitro Express
August 28, 2009, 12:32 PM
No such thing as overkill, as long as we are talking lead- or alloy-cored projectiles fired from a portable small-arm.

You either kill or don't.

All other considerations are ones of "optimal levels of efficiency." Efficiency in cost per shot, in recoil per power needed, in trajectory per bullet weight, etc.

The question was not "is .416 Rem the most efficient round for deer?"--it was about "how much overkill" it would be.

Answer: no overkill at all.

I personally think it more sporting to use a .416 on deer than a .223--but that may be just me. iJosef, just use your .416 and don't give it another thought.

lt522
August 28, 2009, 12:45 PM
If you like the 416 use it. I guess I will used my old out dated guns (30-30 , 30-06 , 308 , and 270) even if there not wssm's.

shaggy430
August 28, 2009, 01:19 PM
I've got a .308 and a .30-06 that I guess I need to throw in the trash according to Blackops. He is so much better than I am.

Sam1911
August 28, 2009, 01:22 PM
Actually, the .30-30 kills like lightening out of a 10" Contender.

Those are cool! Does yours have a standard .30-30 chamber or is it the "Improved" chamber with the modified neck length and shoulder angle?

I helped a guy fireform a bunch of Remington factory ammo in his "improved" chambered .30-30 Contender, one day long ago. He had the cap to a laundry detergent bottle (little smaller than a baseball) sitting against the 200 m berm and we were bouncing that cap all over the place. It was hard to miss it with that gun! And that was with factory ammo! I can't imagine what it would do with already formed brass and a load it likes!

I've got to get into the Contender scene. So many guns...so little time...way less money, even.

-Sam

kanook
August 28, 2009, 01:52 PM
the 30/30 in a rifle has been used a long time and may be absolite BUT put it in a handgun and it hasn't been around as long so the 30/30 is would be an exellent choice

MCgunner
August 28, 2009, 09:04 PM
the 30/30 in a rifle has been used a long time and may be absolite BUT put it in a handgun and it hasn't been around as long so the 30/30 is would be an exellent choice

Ah, that explains it. I wondered why the contender was so deadly.



Those are cool! Does yours have a standard .30-30 chamber or is it the "Improved" chamber with the modified neck length and shoulder angle?

I lied a bit, it's a 12" "hunter" barrel, has the TC compensator on it which is really effective. It's just standard .30-30. I load a 150 grain Nosler ballistic tip to just shy of 2100 fps using IMR3031. The ballistic coefficient of that bullet is high and the bullet will open up well below 2000 fps. As an alternative, I can load the 140 barnes to over 2100 fps, but the Nosler does a fine job. Either bullet shoots 1.5 moa with a 2x LER scope and it produces right at 1000 ft lbs at 200 yards. That's enough for me as I can't see 200 yards where I hunt with the gun. The Improved .30-30 might give me another 50 yards, but I couldn't use it anyway. Pretty happy with it the way it is.

I have a 10" 7mmTCU barrel that I suspect with a scope could produce sub 1" 100 yard groups. It has TC's IHMSA adjustable rear sight on it for IHMSA stock gun class. I might scope that little tack driver some day.

In case blackops is a little slow on ballistics, this is all calculated with an exterior ballistics program and velocities determined by chronograph.

jbkebert
August 28, 2009, 10:47 PM
Anything over 300 is way too much. Personally I use a 270 for deer. I don't think there is a better cartridge for deer. A good shot will drop em and doesn't tear up the meat.

I will go with you on that i really love the .270 for deer. If you refer to a good shot to mean a neck shot I agree. Two of the most horrific exit wounds I have ever seen came from my .270. I was shooting 130 Winchester balistic silvertips. The first one was a spine shot and removed a huge chuck out of the top of the back. The other was a heart/lung shot broadside at a little under 150 yards. I think I could drive my 3/4 ton chevy through the hole it left. Slow moving heavy bullets like the 30/30 or the .416; smash through heavy dense bone/brush but do leave fairly small exit holes through tissue.

H&Hhunter
August 29, 2009, 02:15 AM
WHEN is the hunting public going to figure out that meat damage comes from high velocity and frangible bullets NOT bullet diameter and weight on it's own.

I shoot heavy stuff on hogs and deer all the time. That is how I practice with my heavies for when I need them for their intended purpose. The .416 is quite capable, has good range capability and if you can shoot it will obviously kill deer. Just be careful what is behind your target. She tends to carry a bit if you know what I mean.

I popped a little 80 or 90lb hog back in may with a .470NE. The little sucker took it just forward of the on hip and the 500gr Woodleigh exited just behind the shoulder bone through the meaty part of the off shoulder. The little piggy gave no indication of a hit and ran about 200 yards before giving it up. There was very little meat damage and no a .470 NE will not blow a small hog to smithereens but a .270 with 130 NBT will do some nasty stuff to meat. Once you get above 3000FPS with an explosive bullet you are going to have some jello where the meat used to be.

scythefwd
August 29, 2009, 09:23 AM
Since I was the one that blackops was replying to, I'll play too :)

Honestly the cartridge almost annoys me and I'm tired of hearing about it period. My father has seen a guy shoot at a deer and miss twice with the 30-30 at 100yds, after that he put his crosshairs on him at 200 yds and dropped him with the 270

How is the guys inability to shoot have anything to do with the cartridge? Yeah, there are better rounds out there for hunting flat areas, but not all of us hunt those type areas. Where I hunt, you will be lucky to see 100y, let alone see enough of a deer at that distance to miss because you were shooting such an inferior round. I would say my 1.5 inch groups at 100y are acceptable for anything less than the armadillo/whitetail hybrids walking around here in VA. Oh, wait, they barely make it to 200lbs round here.... I'm used to seeing big deer back home in IL.

You realize that a nosler partition will expand the same at any given velocity reguardless of what the case is marked that it was fired from?

Have fun, relax, and go shoot... nothing is worth that much vitrol on the net, really.


Sam1911, I love that comment. Ripping into something so bad it would ripple the force..... geneous, I tell you geneous.

Loyalist Dave
August 29, 2009, 11:29 AM
Um, it isn't necessarily "overkill" as much as over budget!! Aren't they like $6 a round unless you reload? I think the idea of reloading a few rounds at a very light load is a great idea, and a smart idea, and much less expensive. Sure it's only $6, per deer, but how much to sight in the rifle before you go hunting? You should be able to reload light rounds, sight in the rifle, and get the deer for a lot less than $120 dollars for a box of twenty factory loads.

LD

H&Hhunter
August 29, 2009, 11:30 AM
Yes,the 30-06 does ring a bell, that's why I don't own one!!!

blackops,

Are you saying that you can't handle the recoil of a .30-06? If so I am starting to get clear picture now..:rolleyes:


I saw a guy miss a bull elk 5 times at 60 yards with a .270 once. Does that make the .270 a lousy round? Missing is seldom a cartridges fault unless of course it is on the internet then it becomes a more common problem.

kanook
August 29, 2009, 12:06 PM
I saw a guy miss a bull elk 5 times at 60 yards with a .270 once. Does that make the .270 a lousy round? Missing is seldom a cartridges fault unless of course it is on the internet then it becomes a more common problemthe bull elk is a bigger target, so he missed bigger. the whitetail is a smaller target, so he missed smaller.

Sam1911
August 29, 2009, 03:47 PM
Guys, this has been fun, but blackops obviously isn't coming back for another round, and like 25 of the last 30 posts have just been teasing him, not adding much insight to the original question.

Maybe this thread should be closed, lest the temptation to create more jokes at blackops' expense grow irresistible for even more of us!

Summation:
.416 will kill the deer.
.416 will not ruin any more meat than anything else, if your shot goes in the right place. (And pretty much anything else will destroy meat if you shoot it in the eatin' parts.)
Shooting your big game gun at whitetails is good practice for shooting it at other things, so go ahead.
You should probably handload for this situation and use a lighter bullet and charge to save your shoulder and wallet.

Cool?
-Sam

MCgunner
August 29, 2009, 04:49 PM
Um, it isn't necessarily "overkill" as much as over budget!! Aren't they like $6 a round unless you reload? I think the idea of reloading a few rounds at a very light load is a great idea, and a smart idea, and much less expensive. Sure it's only $6, per deer, but how much to sight in the rifle before you go hunting? You should be able to reload light rounds, sight in the rifle, and get the deer for a lot less than $120 dollars for a box of twenty factory loads.

LD

If you don't reload, you're wasting money and not optimizing the round. The big bores like the .416 BEG to be used with heavy cast bullets, one of the attractions for me. I'd load it down as I've posted to maybe 2000 fps max and I'd have me a good gun to 200 yards anyway. Like H&Hhunter says, big bullets kill with a lot of penetration and not much meat damage.

If you hunt Africa and Alaska with the .416 and want to use full on loads on deer or hog for practice, then the very fact that you can afford an African hunt means 120 bucks for a box of 20 is pocket change. LOL! But, you can reload the high end stuff, too, ya know.

I mean, I ain't lookin' for a .416 to reload cast bullets for, I'm just sayin'. If I did want more than my .357 lever carbine for that, I'd get a Marlin guide gun in .45-70 or maybe a Rossi 92 in .454 Casull. I passed on a .45-70 sporterized Siamese Mauser once. Might have should have done it, but I didn't. Never know what you're getting with a custom gun like that. He wanted 500 bucks off a boat I was selling if I'd take the trade. I wanted the money worse. Would have been a fun gun to load for, though. :D

lgbloader
August 29, 2009, 06:08 PM
but blackops obviously isn't coming back for another round

Sammy,

Your right. Guys, your hurting Blackops feelings. Then again, he did ask for it. I know because I had my fingers cocked on the keyboard to shoot a post missile strait at his monitor. I loves me the 30-30, not to mention all the "millitary cartridges".

Still... Lets take The High Road...

LGB

Geno
August 29, 2009, 06:45 PM
I'd bet that a .444 Marlin would do far more damage due to a thinner jacket. But why in common sense's name would you even want to use a .416 Remington when you could just go all out and take a .50 BMG? :neener: Have fun.

Geno

MCgunner
August 29, 2009, 07:25 PM
Cause I'd have to buy a special press to load the .50, won't fit on my old Lyman turret.

H&Hhunter
August 30, 2009, 12:36 PM
If a .470 NE will kill hogs a .416 RM will kill deer and none of that reduced load stuff for me thank you. Go big go full power or go home!:D
Hey look at that pretty little entrance hole in the shoulder. That was a full house 500 gr Woodleigh it was a just smidge bigger on the back side.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/GTAllyn/Nitrohog1.jpg
A fine example of the the delivery of a well placed application of the right & left barrels two down.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/GTAllyn/Hogsdogsdoubleswebready1.jpg
My poor dog hated to be in a sit and stay. Just look at his expression!! Priceless.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/GTAllyn/Hogsdogsdoubles005.jpg

blackops
August 30, 2009, 06:30 PM
HAHA you guys are too funny. Sorry I haven't posted for your humor lately, I've been bow hunting for a bucky!

As for the woods ninja BS gimmie a break kid, go have your diapers changed er sumthn!

I never said military rounds won't do a great job, I just don't hunt with them, and never will!

For the 30-30....really whatever I'm tired of hearing about it! I already admitted the cartridge has proven its success for a looong time. You want to shoot them shoot them simple, I just don't like them. You can shoot them at distance, great, use it. Whatever you feel most comfortable with.

As for the guys who comment about my shooting, lol funny. I could explain, but it's a waste of time and you would take it as BS anyways. I'm no marksman, but my father made sure I could handle a rifle.

blackops
August 30, 2009, 06:50 PM
Your right. Guys, your hurting Blackops feelings. Then again, he did ask for it. I know because I had my fingers cocked on the keyboard to shoot a post missile strait at his monitor.

Hurt my feelings? haha oh igbloader, keep those fingers "cocked on the keyboard" because your most likely a better shot on it and outside of the internet your fresh meat bud!

blackops
August 30, 2009, 06:59 PM
Guys, this has been fun, but blackops obviously isn't coming back for another round, and like 25 of the last 30 posts have just been teasing him, not adding much insight to the original question.

Come on sam, can't a guy go hunting for a while? BTW if you think your post online are going to brush me away...well you don't know me at all!

MCgunner
August 30, 2009, 07:01 PM
Well, my .30-30 is more effective than your bow. :neener:

Did you get anything with the bow? This is to be my first bow season. I've hunted with a bow once in my life in 1974 and wasn't real good with the stick and string. It was on Aransas NWR and the skeeters is all I remember about the experience. I didn't get anything. I hope to cure that, been getting into bows lately and practicing a lot.

jim in Anchorage
August 30, 2009, 07:36 PM
H&H-I hope you're not getting blood from those ugly pigs on that gorgeous .470.

H&Hhunter
August 30, 2009, 09:57 PM
H&H-I hope you're not getting blood from those ugly pigs on that gorgeous .470.

:D:D I keep the wood oiled down in pig blood.

shaggy430
August 31, 2009, 01:26 AM
I never said military rounds won't do a great job, I just don't hunt with them, and never will!

Almost every modern sporting cartridge started out as a variation of a military cartridge, Mr. Woods Ninja. How do you think your .270 came to be?

MCgunner
August 31, 2009, 09:58 AM
Almost every modern sporting cartridge started out as a variation of a military cartridge, Mr. Woods Ninja. How do you think your .270 came to be?

Yeah, that's the funny part. LOL! .270 is a .30-06, just can't shoot as big a bullet. Ya know, I bet you he'd freak on my 7mmTCU. Doesn't look like much of any other cartridge, but the head stamp says ".223" AKA 5.56mm NATO. I like to size commercial brass cause the military stuff is tough as nails. Commercial sizes easily without too many crunched cases, then you have to fire form.

What's a .243? What's a 7-08? What's a .35 Whelen? .25-06? .284 Rem? I've even necked down 7x57 brass for my .257 Roberts, which is what the Roberts is, a necked down military cartridge. These are great cartridges. Why would one ignore them because of their military brass? Truth be told, though, rarely is a baby any better than its parent. It might have an advantage in slightly better trajectory, but then give up bullet weight for it. It won't usually kill game any better. The .30-06 is a better round, for instance on elk and bigger game than is its .270 offspring and still kills deer just as well.

blackops
September 1, 2009, 03:29 AM
Did you get anything with the bow? This is to be my first bow season. I've hunted with a bow once in my life in 1974 and wasn't real good with the stick and string. It was on Aransas NWR and the skeeters is all I remember about the experience. I didn't get anything. I hope to cure that, been getting into bows lately and practicing a lot.

mcgunner,

I stalked up on a 3 point to 25yds, but just never could get a shot...what a gorgeous young buck. He was a smart one at that. He never came out from the brush and trees he was behind, took two leaps over a ridge down in a canyon, and was out of sight in less than ten seconds. If it was rifle season I would have jerky right now, but that's how it goes with the bow especially on public land in the mountains of California. The bow is my favorite though, It's more up close and personal with the animal, and more rewarding than a rifle kill anyday of the week to me.

blackops
September 1, 2009, 03:52 AM
Almost every modern sporting cartridge started out as a variation of a military cartridge, Mr. Woods Ninja. How do you think your .270 came to be?

Let me ask you a few questions Mr. Idiot Ninja. Has any military firearm ever been chambered in 270? Do you think I'm not aware of the fact the 270 came from the 30-06? Was the 270 designed as a military cartridge?

B BRI
September 1, 2009, 04:01 AM
When I read the intial post, I thought of the words of Elmer Keith. With big bullets at moderate velocity (it's not going 4000 fps) you can "eat right up to the hole" . . .

Have fun with your "big medicine" . . .

Flintknapper
September 1, 2009, 08:38 AM
Time to close this thread IMO.........

jimmyraythomason
September 1, 2009, 10:57 AM
I second Flintnapper's motion.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 1, 2009, 11:55 AM
But why in common sense's name would you even want to use a .416 Remington when you could just go all out and take a .50 BMG?

I talked to an acquaintance this last weekend who's gonna hunt deer with his .50 BMG this year. He loads it up on a rotating varmint bench in the back of his pickup, and says he can "cover" almost an entire square mile. He claims to be deadly with it, and I tend to believe him, as I know for a fact this same guy is an incredibly deadly bow shot with both recurve and compound (and self-bow for that matter) - seen it myself.

MCgunner
September 1, 2009, 12:54 PM
Before it closes....

If it was rifle season I would have jerky right now, but that's how it goes with the bow especially on public land in the mountains of California.

Well, that's why they call it bow season. Had it been gun season, you probably wouldn't have gotten that close, LOL. But, that's some good stalkin' no matter the season!

I'm outta here Friday with 2 of my shotguns for Waco, dove season! Our bow season starts in October. I just love this time of year. :D It will be great to see those first flights of geese again, then my blood will start flowing and all with be right with the world.

MCgunner
September 1, 2009, 12:57 PM
I talked to an acquaintance this last weekend who's gonna hunt deer with his .50 BMG this year. He loads it up on a rotating varmint bench in the back of his pickup, and says he can "cover" almost an entire square mile. He claims to be deadly with it, and I tend to believe him, as I know for a fact this same guy is an incredibly deadly bow shot with both recurve and compound (and self-bow for that matter) - seen it myself.

That might work in the panhandle or somewhere with open country, but down here, you can only shoot as far as you can see and a .30-30 is overkill. ROFL!

It would be kinda cool to hunt that way, could watch TV, listen to the stereo, eat, drink a coke, whatever, no worry about scaring game since they're a mile away. LOL! Hell, you could have a poker party with friends or maybe shoot air rifles or bows while waiting. Just go check for game now and then with your 45X spotting scope. :D

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 1, 2009, 01:00 PM
Well, yes, exactly. I have SERIOUS doubts he can actually see far enough to make it worthwhile over any other standard bottlenecked round rifle. It's for spits & giggles, I'm sure. BUT then again, he's gonna be somewhat elevated in the pickup truck bed, and if he gets into some large crop fields....

But I don't doubt the guy's ability to make a shot.

Sav .250
September 1, 2009, 04:00 PM
That has to be the....Hammer of Thor...... as far as calibers go. Most sites link that bruiser to dangerous African game, Brown bear and the like. So I`m thinking you get that bullet with-in 1 foot of a deer and he`s yours. Shock
wave gets-um every time. I`m just having a little fun but that is a monster of a cal for deer. :)

kanook
September 2, 2009, 09:42 AM
(4) A .270 (6.858mm) round using a new case with the same dimensions as the 7.62 x 51 case, except it is necked down to accept a .277" diameter projectile. (A similar situation to the .243, which uses a necked down .308 case). In European (or modern military) nomenclature this would be a 6.85 x 51mm cartridge. 150 grain bullet at a MV of 3000 FPS.

Has any military firearm ever been chambered in 270?yes, the M4 is currently being chambered in a 270.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 2, 2009, 12:11 PM
News to me. :scrutiny: (and I know you're talking about 6.8 spc).

GR8GIFT
September 2, 2009, 01:22 PM
Why not if you like shooting a 416 mag go for it. My favorite caliber is .338 Winchester Magnum. I hunt everything from antelope up to moose with it. I use both factory ammo and reloads. Haven't tried it on rabbits and squirrels yet:D. I usually use my 22 lr for those. Bad thing is the current cost of factory ammo is outrageous and the cost of premium bullets for reloading is also.

blackops
September 3, 2009, 03:55 AM
yes, the M4 is currently being chambered in a 270.

The M4 is not shooting a 270 cartridge nor was it designed for the military! That's the whole point, end of story, bottom line! .

blackops
September 3, 2009, 04:03 AM
BTW not all M4's are being chambered for the 6.8. I have no idea where you get your information, but the cartridge is for Special Forces only.

lefteyedom
September 3, 2009, 04:32 AM
Take the 416 Remington Mag cartridge, pull the bullet and dump the powder out. Then fill the case with good old BLACK POWDER and reseat the bullet. Now you have a real nice whitetail deer cartridge.
Have fun.

scythefwd
September 3, 2009, 06:54 AM
Has any military firearm ever been chambered in 270?

yes, the M4 is currently being chambered in a 270.

BTW not all M4's are being chambered for the 6.8.

Not ALL are being chambered for the 6.8? Does that mean that there are some that are being chambered for it (at least one). There is a marine on the Marines shooting team using a 6.8 spc for the matches. Guess there is a military firearm chambered in a .270 projectile (which is where the 270 gets it name) so I guess technically.... the answer to your first question is a resounding YES, unless you are using some non standard definition of the word any.

shaggy430
September 3, 2009, 09:18 AM
BTW not all M4's are being chambered for the 6.8. I have no idea where you get your information, but the cartridge is for Special Forces only.

Guys, blackops is the textbook definition of a troll. He is going to continue this on this thread and any other thread he posts on. Let's just ignore him and maybe he will go live happily ever after with Gecko45 somewhere.

blackops
September 3, 2009, 03:35 PM
Not ALL are being chambered for the 6.8? Does that mean that there are some that are being chambered for it (at least one). There is a marine on the Marines shooting team using a 6.8 spc for the matches. Guess there is a military firearm chambered in a .270 projectile (which is where the 270 gets it name) so I guess technically.... the answer to your first question is a resounding YES, unless you are using some non standard definition of the word any.

One more time for the slower guys, was the 270 cartridge designed for the military?

shag, if you have an issue with me why do you post in the same thread? your the "troll" who pops off on the keyboard.

The moderators should have closed this a week ago.

kanook
September 3, 2009, 06:03 PM
I don't know how to make the answer any easier to swallow, so I will type slow Y e s the military is using a 270 that was designed for them.

shaggy430
September 3, 2009, 06:18 PM
From Wikipedia:

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

For your consideration- the thread started off with the OP talking about the .416 for deer. I'll let everyone decide for themselves how this thread became what it is now.

jimmyraythomason
September 3, 2009, 06:57 PM
I have no real interest in the topic.(either the original one or the one currently being "discussed"). I only stop by ocassionally to see how silly it's gotten.

Art Eatman
September 3, 2009, 09:12 PM
Welllllllll, since the .416 is no longer of interest...

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