[jamesbeat]

I've recently moved to New York (state, not city) from England.
As I'm still waiting for my paperwork to be processed (up to 90 days :() I am unable to buy any firearms.
I am, however, allowed to own a cap 'n ball revolver, providing I don't own the components necessary to fire it.

When I was in the UK, I had a pair of Pietta 1851 Navy revolvers. These are exactly the same as the ones you guys will be familiar with except they were chambered for blanks.

I really loved those pistols and I'd like to buy something similar, but as I intend to apply for a pistol permit as soon as I can, I will eventually be shooting whatever pistol I buy this time.

After doing a bit of reading, I've decided that brass frames are out (I just don't like the way they look) and I'd like something in .44.
That pretty much rules out the 1851 because I'd like the caliber to be authentic.

My choice would seem to be an 1860 Army, but then I saw the Remington New Model Army and now I'm torn between the two.

I know that they are both good revolvers and I'll end up buying both (and a Navy, and a Walker, and a Dragoon etc etc :D) eventually, but which should I start out with and why?
It doesn't help that the price difference is only $20.

Maybe a better way to phase my question would be:
If you could only have one cap 'n ball revolver, which would it be and why?

[Ratdog68]

Get ahold of Jason at Traditions... and ask him if actual (replacement) cylinders will convert your "blanks" 1851s to working revolvers. Cabela's sells cylinders for about $40ea.

That being said... and, with the above fresh in your mind... having each flavor is a good thing... and you already have some Colt types in hand (unless I'm reading "had" as being that you let 'em go).

The Remington NMA is mighty fine in the paw !! I'd give it some serious consideration.

On the other hand... love my Walker Colt and will have an 1860, and an 1851, and... ohhh... never mind... I'm no help (or, am I?). :evil:

BTW... welcome to this side of the puddle. :D

[Das Jaeger]

if I could only have one . Design wise it is in a class all of its own :D .
I must be in HELL if I could only have one , then I could use it to blow my dead brains out .
The 1860 Army Colt is a good choice too , it handles wonderfully , is .44 and is very gracefull in the hand .
58 Remington is wonderfull too , the easiest to handle and use and work on and clean .
Boy , I am no help , sorry :banghead:

Jaeger

[scrat]

Unable to buy for 90 days :(
Telling everyone on a public forums :( :(

[Das Jaeger]

Scrat :D Yeh, thats the ticket .

Jaeger :D

[arcticap]

The Colt has a more problematic & troublesome design especially if one wants to swap out loaded cylinders or load separate from the gun using a cylinder loading press.
Plus the Remington also offers the option of having an adjustable rear sight.
The recently discontinued Ruger Old Army has a quirky loading lever but besides that has the strongest design with the tightest barrel to chamber spec.'s and larger power capacity, although it's also more expensive. It comes in both fixed and adjustable sight models.
The Euroarms Rogers & Spencer is also known to be a relatively more accurate and reliable target revolver which is also available with either fixed or adjustable sights. But it offers slightly less powder capacity than the Remington.
They're all after your money! :D

[Mike OTDP]

If you are going to shoot, a solid frame revolver is a better choice. I would go to the National Muzzle-Loading Rifle Association website (www.nmlra.org) and the North-South Skirmish Association site (www.n-ssa.org) and look into competition.

Now, the real trick is that there are revolvers...and revolvers. The best are the Feinwerkbau and Hege Army Match Maximum - but they cost $1700 these days. Below these are the Pedersoli and Pietta Shooter's Model, at around $600. I would be unwilling to recommend anything below that. You aren't getting enough gun for the money.

[Das Jaeger]

but tis waist of my time OTDP :banghead:

Jaeger

[ClemBert]

James, it would be helpful if you gave us an idea of how much money you are planning on spending for your first BP revolver. There is going to be a difference of opinion if you say you want a $200 revolver versus a $500 one.

[Das Jaeger]

for an Olympics competion gun . But , if your not , the others are way worth the money for what you get .

Jaeger

[ClemBert]

FWIW...for $200 I'd get a plain jane Pietta 1858 with fixed sights. I've seen Cabela's have those on sale for $189. For $500 I'd go with a stainless steel Ruger Old Army w/ 7.5" barrel. In between $200 and $500 is anyone's guess and personal preference. If Cabela's ever puts their Uberti Walker on sale for perhaps $339 then I'm gonna be all over that.

[Das Jaeger]

FYI , Dixie has theres regular price for only $355 everyday , whats ya waiting for :D There Ubertis even come with great customer service, a gunsmith , and No Bull Pucky out the door . Don't tell me your that cheap to wait for Smellbellas to get $20 off ? I will send you the $20 if thats the case .

Do it , Jaeger

[ClemBert]

Well, I guess I'm a cheap bastard waiting for it to come down another $16...LOL!

Besides, what does "Products marked with *** dont exist in desired quantity in our stock." mean...seems that Dixie is always outta them when I look.

Lemme guess, for $16 less the wedge won't come out! :cuss:

p.s. Hehehe, beat you to the punch line Jaeger. :D Ratpup is now gonna pop up somewheres after he heard someone say "wedge".

[ClemBert]

I will send you the $20 if thats the case.

I'm still waiting on my check from you for 5 gazillion bazillion dollars for unsatisfactory recommendation of an Pietta 1851 with a welded wedgie. :D

[Pulp]

First off James, welcome to the USA, even if it is New York.;) Gun choices are opinions, and opinions are like rectal openings, everyone's got one, and they all stink.

But since ya asked, if I could only have one I would go with the '60 Army. I know the Remington is probably a better gun, for all the reasons listed above, but I personally like the open frame Colt style better.

Just my opinion, but I've already described opinions.

[Ratdog68]

Otay... ClemBert... in the interest in helping you with your chronic wedgie issues... :D

http://www.howcast.com/videos/185824-How-To-Pick-a-Wedgie-in-Public

[Ratdog68]

I'm still waiting on my check from you for 5 gazillion bazillion dollars for unsatisfactory recommendation of an Pietta 1851 with a welded wedgie. :D
Yer ClemBertness... me thinks you've been victimized... :evil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjBPFPxPhmU&feature=player_embedded

[ClemBert]

Ratpup...LOL! I knew wid ur superduper hearin' wid can'ts talks about me wedgie problem widout ya's popping up. I'm amazed...dat fella didn't even need a brass punch to git dat wedgie out. If da Pietta gorilla gave em an atomics wedgie he be outta luck using dat chair method. :neener:

[DoubleDeuce 1]

Look at The Possibles Shop to see what they have to offer. The owner is a pleasant guy to deal with, and he is not all that expensive.

For me, I find it hard to beat the looks of the 1860 Army. Uberti makes a good product. They aren't all nicked up with proof marks, if that is important to you. It reminds me of the leg of a beautiful woman. Graceful.:cool:

[Das Jaeger]

that aint the part of the woman I find graceful :D

Jaeger

[Ratdog68]

Ratpup...LOL! I knew wid ur superduper hearin' wid can'ts talks about me wedgie problem widout ya's popping up. I'm amazed...dat fella didn't even need a brass punch to git dat wedgie out. If da Pietta gorilla gave em an atomics wedgie he be outta luck using dat chair method. :neener:
When yer special... ya get all the special treatment a 'dog can offer up. :D

http://images9.cafepress.com/product/47640449v1_350x350_Front.jpg

[Ratdog68]

Look at The Possibles Shop to see what they have to offer. The owner is a pleasant guy to deal with, and he is not all that expensive.

For me, I find it hard to beat the looks of the 1860 Army. Uberti makes a good product. They aren't all nicked up with proof marks, if that is important to you. It reminds me of the leg of a beautiful woman. Graceful.:cool:
Did someone say leg? :D

http://images8.cafepress.com/product/367475078v2_350x350_Front_Color-White.jpg

[Das Jaeger]

get this Poop ? ! :D
I must bow down to you now , you may be the Master ?
But I am afraid if I do you'll hump my legg ?

Jaeger :what:

[Ratdog68]

get this Poop ? ! :D
I must bow down to you now , you may be the Master ?
But I am afraid if I do you'll hump my legg ?

Jaeger :what:
Oh... I just pix it up here and there. 'Course... a feller needs the right tools to git-'er-done proper like. :D

http://www.pixitup.com/

[Hellgate]

Jamesbeat,
For starting out, I'd get a Remington model. I have owned at least 30 Colt & Remington reproductions. I currently have 19. The reason I say this is you are more likely to get one that actually shoots straight. Too many of the Colts I've had shot off to one side or too high and needed either a dove tailed front sight or a taller front sight. The Remingtons usually shoot low but a simple filing off the top of the front sight brings them to zero. The Remmies are not as pretty nor as well balanced but they are FUNCTIONAL and strong. The Remingtons also will accept both round ball and conical bullets over more powder. The Piettas are beefier (heaviest and thickly built), the Ubertis are lighter and to me handle well, and the Euroarms are the lightest built with the smallest grip and frame. Big, fat fingers like the Ubertis and Piettas whereas smaller hands like the Euroarms guns. I have Ubertis and Euroarms only. My favorite guns are actually Armi San Marco 1851 navies in 44 cal. I love their SAA grip and their light weight and balance. They are my main match guns. My other main match guns are two Uberti Remmies and two Euro Remmies. As your addiction intensifies you can get all kinds of models like I have but the Remingtons will do everything you ask of them.

[Ratdog68]

I dunno Hellgate... I gotta say, a pimped out Remmie is awful purdy ! Sure sweet in the paw too.

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/Ratdog68/BlackPowder/1858/NickelGold/NickelGold004.jpg

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/Ratdog68/BlackPowder/1858/NickelGold/NickelGold005.jpg

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/Ratdog68/BlackPowder/1858/NickelGold/NickelGold003.jpg

[Hellgate]

Ratdog,
Beautiful pics. Looking at them got me "excited". ;>)

[Ratdog68]

Ratdog,
Beautiful pics. Looking at them got me "excited". ;>)
Well... the Walker just NEEDED to get into the action and pose along with the others.

Of course... our transplant from across the puddle just MIGHT consider one of these beauties...

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/Ratdog68/BlackPowder/Traditions%2050/WmParker001.jpg
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/Ratdog68/BlackPowder/Traditions%2050/WmParker002.jpg
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/Ratdog68/BlackPowder/Traditions%2050/WmParker003.jpg
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/Ratdog68/BlackPowder/Traditions%2050/WmParker004.jpg
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/Ratdog68/BlackPowder/Traditions%2050/WmParker005.jpg
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv134/Ratdog68/BlackPowder/Traditions%2050/WmParker006.jpg

It's a little "off-topic"... but the Wm Parker pistol is also some serious eye candy (in my book at least).

[jamesbeat]

Scrat, I'm not sure what you meant by
Unable to buy for 90 days :(
Telling everyone on a public forums :(:(

I'm not breaking any laws if that's what you mean, I can't buy firearms until I can prove that I'm a legal permanent resident, but black powder revolvers aren't classed as firearms here, as long as I don't own powder, ball and caps.
When I get a pistol permit I can add the revolver to it and then I will be able to shoot it legally.

I could have converted my blank firing colts, but it would have required new barrels, cylinders and hammers, and the frames were cut away to allow loading of blanks so they would have still looked wrong.
Besides which, the hassle of exporting them wouldn't have been worth the effort. If you knew what gun ownership in the UK is like you'd understand.

Unfortunately, the 90 day thing also applies to my work permit, so I'm afraid my budget is severely limited as I may have to live on my savings for three months. Basically, it needs to cost as little as possible.
I have tried to look for used examples, but for some reason there seem to be very few available on the gun auction sites, and used ones seem to go for more money than brand new ones!

If anyone has one they want to offload, by all means let me know, but if not then I guess my budget is around the $200 mark, which means an 1860 Army or a Remington.

[DoubleDeuce 1]

The leg is the foundation for the rest of the package. Since this is a family forum, I thought I'd limit my comments. No telling who :cuss: might be looking over the shoulder. :uhoh: I have found that a #10 cast iron skillet on the back of the head to be an unpleasant surprise...:cool:

[Das Jaeger]

That tis exactly why I keep my back to the wall ! :D
And I do all the cooking , she is cut off from all pan privelidges , period . :D
Fortunately , mine would join in the fun and frolick and pervert your imagination even further , which is all I realy did . But she also knows to stay out of my fun bussiness and forum life , she aint wlecome . I was talkin about ears , right ? :neener: ... Family show , ok , if ya say so :D

Das Jaeger

[ClemBert]

James,

Based of what you said it is a no brainer at this point. Here is your next BP revolver (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712-cat20720-cat20817&id=0006195210082a&navCount=1&podId=0006195&parentId=cat20817&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=QZ&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20817&hasJS=true). At $189 get it before the sale ends!

[ClemBert]

Jaegermeister, see attached file regarding Dixie Uberti Walker availability. Those *** will get you everytime. Guess you can manage to hang onto your $20 longer. But thanks for the temptation anyway.

[madcratebuilder]

First off James, welcome to the USA, even if it is New York. Gun choices are opinions, and opinions are like rectal openings, everyone's got one, and they all stink.



That's a good one pulp.

Welcome to the forum james. Since you have already owned a pair of 51's that should make you familiar with the open tops. Get the one you like the best, as you stated, only $20 difference in the price of the revolvers you are looking at. If you had no previous experience I would recommend the 1858, an easier gun to learn on. Either way you can't go wrong.

[jamesbeat]

Clembert, believe it or not, that is the exact one I was looking at yesterday.
I came pretty close to buying it for $30 more too, that price reduction must have happened in the last few hours!
It would indeed seem to be a no brainer, except they have also reduced their 1860 Navy to exactly the same price...
I think I'm going to go with the Remington to begin with, I already had Colts so the Remington will be something new to play with rather than simply replacing what I used to have with something very similar.
As soon as I have a job I'm going to get one of each anyway :D

[ClemBert]

James, eventually you're going to want to play the part of Clint Eastwood in the movie Pale Rider and get yourself a 45 Colt conversion cylinder to put in that Remmie so you can quick change cylinders....something not easy to do with a Colt style BP revolver.

[Smokin_Gun]

Welcome to the States Jamesbeat ... If I had only one Rev my choice would definately be A Remington 1858 NMA .44 full legth barreled Revolver then I'd choose the Euroarms first, Uberti second, Pietta third in the Italian brands... the E.N. Santa Barbara from the Arsenal in Spain over all the the afore mentioned if you can find one...
BUT DEFINATELY A REMINGTON 1858 NMA... :O)

Where abouts are you in New York, I'm from Upstate N.Y. near Montreal originally...?
Welcome to the Forum.

[Das Jaeger]

to you Clembert , thats why i shut my mouth , it happens once a year and now thats done :D
Hopeing they get another shipment in for ya though :)
I did nto realize they were out,t hey have had them instock for so long I jsut took it for granted , oooops , my bad .

Jaeger

[jamesbeat]

I'm in Nassau County, Long Island.

I went for the Remington in the end, $189 from Cabelas with free delivery, can't beat that :D

Thanks for your help :)

[Ginormous]

A most excellent choice James. One of many you'll hopefully own while here. :)

[ClemBert]

That was a heck of a good deal James....glad to see my crystal ball is still working....now you'll need to start thinking about all the other goodies you'll need to shoot that puppy.

Now if Cabala's will just put that Walker on sale...my crystal ball is telling me there's one in my future. :D

[sundance44s]

Now I remembered the 3 reasons I never bought one of those Chrome and Gold plated Remingtons ........I don`t have a Pimp Hat ! or drive a Caddy ! nor have I ever been able to get a woman to work for me ! Guess I`m stuck with plane Jane shootin Irons.

[jamesbeat]

Yup Clembert, you did it! Now if you'd just like to PM next weeks lotto numbers to me... :D

I'm afraid I can't buy most of the goodies associated with shooting my new purchase just yet. Percussion revolvers aren't classed as firearms here providing you don't intend to fire them. If I own one whilst also owning the components necessary to fire it, it is then classed as a handgun and I need the appropriate permit.
Once I get my paperwork through I can apply for a pistol permit, which I believe takes six months.

I've got my eye on a Walker too, I'm pretty sure there's one in my future...

[Ratdog68]

So... what you need is a buddy who "owns" the components, but not the revolver. :D Go out into the sticks and "borrow" his components... and then lend him your revolver. :evil: Sounds like a good day's worth of share and share alike... male bonding. :neener:

[jamesbeat]

Hmm, I don't know if that would be such a good idea.
Once the thing is loaded, it's legally a firearm and I don't have a pistol permit.
This might sound a bit dumb, but I wasn't born here, and I see it as a privilege for me to be here. I'm not going to abuse that privilege by breaking the law.
It's a shame about the handgun laws in NY, but it's still a million times better than the UK.
I had a lot of deactivated firearms when I lived in the UK but this Remington is the first working firearm I have ever owned.
When my paperwork arrives I'll be able to buy longarms, and waiting six months for a pistol permit isn't exactly the end of the world.

I'm going to Wisconsin in a couple of weeks and after a cursory check of the laws it seems that I might be able to legally fire up the ol' smokepole while I'm there :D

[fyrfyter43]

Hmm, I don't know if that would be such a good idea.
Once the thing is loaded, it's legally a firearm and I don't have a pistol permit.
This might sound a bit dumb, but I wasn't born here, and I see it as a privilege for me to be here. I'm not going to abuse that privilege by breaking the law.
It's a shame about the handgun laws in NY, but it's still a million times better than the UK.
I had a lot of deactivated firearms when I lived in the UK but this Remington is the first working firearm I have ever owned.
When my paperwork arrives I'll be able to buy longarms, and waiting six months for a pistol permit isn't exactly the end of the world.

James, while I think it's a crock to have to wait 6 months for a handgun permit (NJ isn't too much different from NY), I have to say that I truly admire your integrity.

[jamesbeat]

Well if you knew how hard it is to get a FAC (firearms certificate) in the UK, you would perhaps understand it a bit better. NY may make me wait for months to get a pistol permit, but compared with what I would have had to do in the UK, it's nothing.

To get a gun in the UK would have required me to be a full member of a shooting club (for 6 months or a year I think). I'd then have to have my home fitted with 7 lever locks throughout, get a Home Office approved (read: very expensive) safe and I think a burglar alarm system too.
Then police officers would visit my home to inspect everything, and they can call in whenever they like afterwards to make sure I was behaving myself.
I would have to supply two character witnesses and provide photos of myself, and undergo the mental health and criminal background checks.
I'm sure there's other stuff too, like limits on how much ammunition you can own at a time.

I simply didn't have the time and money to do all of this. Living in rented accommodation almost always means that you can't make the necessary changes to the property, and the police can still arbitrarily turn your application down.

All cartridge handguns are illegal, the above applies to shotguns, rifles and black powder handguns. Black powder also requires you to have an explosives licence, which is more expense and red tape.

I settled instead with deactivated guns to fondle and air weapons to shoot. I had a couple of air revolvers, which are revolvers which take cartridges which you pump up with air and top off with a pellet. These were also banned and I had to either get an FAC or turn them in to be destroyed. I did the latter and lost a couple of grand worth of guns and accessories.

This isn't a political forum and thus I'm not going to call into question the wisdom of the UK laws, but if the US government has decided that it trusts me to own firearms, the least I can do is reciprocate by not breaking the law.

I guess I'm still getting used to the fact that firearms ownership is a right not a privilege :D

[ClemBert]

Right on James! No sense in getting yourself deported before you even get your work permit. I'm not sure what the deal is with those commies up there in NY but as far as I can tell down here in Florida all you would need is the money to purchase your BP revolver.

p.s. Guess in a way you are glad that King George III was told to bite our gringo azzes. ;)

[Das Jaeger]

it WAS a right in your country too , but you guys gave it away , remember that . You better be willing to die for OUR right here if you now deam it to be a right to keep and bear arms for you here too , remember that :cool:

Das Jaeger

[jamesbeat]

Clembert, you can bet your a$$ I'm glad, if that hadn't happened then America would probably be in the same sorry state that 'Great' Britain is now.

Das Jaeger, please don't count me amongst the people who gave away their rights. Most of it happened before I was born.
When handguns were banned, it wasn't put to the vote. Even if it had been it wouldn't have made any difference because all of the political parties condoned the ban.
There are a couple of valuable lessons to be learned from the UK, not only about firearms but about politics and freedom in general.
Hopefully I won't have to do any dying to protect the second amendment, but I can and will join the NRA.

[Ginormous]

Congratulations James! Glad to see you taking advantage of some of our most basic freedoms while you're here.

I have no idea if you intend to or even want to become a citizen of the United States, but if you do decide to naturalize, your voice would be welcomed in our country's politics. No dying necessary or required. :D

[mykeal]

Be careful about Wisconsin. They don't allow concealed carry there, so their laws aren't as up to date as I'm sure they'd like. There may be issues with you shooting a bp revolver there as well. Do your research well.

[Hawkeye748]

James,

Since you are going to Wisconsin and like CW era guns, I strongly suggest if you can work it in, go to Lodgewood MFG in Whitewater Wisconsin. One of the best dealers of origninal and reproduction Antique Firearms around. Also carries parts to fix these things. Great people. Tell Becky, Larry and Bill I said Hello. They will not be there the last few days of September until about October 7.

Also, Check out this web site if the American Civil War interests you. www.n-sss.org

The N-SSA is competition shooting with CW era weapons. We have classified shooting and we have everything from novices up to international class shooters. There are members/units in your area that can help you out with your 1858. Friendly group even if they are Yankees, but I guess we are all Yanks to you. :D The first weekend in October is our Fall National Competition in Winchester VA. The unit events are something to see, Particularly, the big guns. I doubt you have never seen live fire from CW era guns, but we do it. Its free admitance and open to the public, except for the firing line. Large variety of sutlers there also. Drop me a line if you are interested and I will try and set you up with some of our members. If you can make Winchester, message me and I will try to meet with you.

Here are a couple of smaller skirmishes closer to you if you would like to attend one.

Sept 11-13 NE 149th NYVI Dansville, New York (info 315.593.6302) 149th NYVI
Sept 19-20 EN 34th Bttn VA Cav Glastonbury, CT 34th Bttn VA Cav
Oct 17-18 EN New England Commander's Shoot Saratoga, NY

Welcome to the US of A, where freedom is right not a privilege

Judge Hawkeye

[Sagetown]

Hello James; and welcome to the U.S.A.
Enjoy your first choice in Black Powder firearms, and hopefully more to follow.
Sage

[jamesbeat]

Thanks guys :)
I'll be sure to properly check the Wisconsin laws well in advance, but what I have read so far seems encouraging.
Thanks for the information Hawkeye, I doubt I'll be able to make any detours while in Wisconsin but I'll try my utmost to attend a skirmish.
I have been to a few medieval reenactments in England and they were awesome, I'd love to go to a civil war one.
Unfortunately I haven't been here long and thus don't have a car :(
Whilst I'm sure you'll agree that I got my priorities right by buying a gun before I got a car, it does kinda make getting around difficult :D

[Hawkeye748]

Just so you don't misunderstand, the N-SSA is about LIVE FIRE Competition, not a re-enactment. There is a video on the web site. Take a peek at it to get a better idea of what we do.