[bear71]

I've learned today that most gunfights and kills in saloons or other establishments in the 1800's western America were performed by handguns because it was consider impolite and uncooth to carry a shotgun into a saloon.

The shotgun would have been the much better tool in many cases but because the gunmen wished to remain polite, he would leave his shotgun or rifle in the scabbard at home or on his horse.

[MCgunner]

Not sure I buy that one. I figure it's just as with any scenario in modern times, a lot easier to carry a handgun on your hip than a shotgun in your hands. Too, a handgun is faster into play than a long gun regardless of Lucas McCain.

One thing's for sure, if I go into a bar, I ain't carryin' my shotgun. :D

[kdstrick]

It's just too hard to shoot a shotgun with a drink in your hand! :p

[earlthegoat2]

At least these shotguns are uncouth.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/earlthegoat2/double-defense-1-tm.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/earlthegoat2/silo_4000_vinci_12_syn_ct_field.jpg

[cyclopsshooter]

ick
ill keep my 500

[wrs840]

It's just too hard to shoot a shotgun with a drink in your hand!

That's kinda what I was thinking. My suspicion is that the stats were driven more by practicality and pragmatism than by etiquette.

Les

[ants]

At a time when a cowboy made $5 at the end of a month of work, shotguns and shotshells were a little out of the price bracket. Surplus Army pistols were cheap and easy to get.

[Lee Lapin]

Where did you learn that?

lpl

[chas08]

One thing's for sure, if I go into a bar, I ain't carryin' my shotgun.
That depends on the Bar...:D

[armoredman]

Ditto, chas, been in some bars in the past where a shotgun would have been my instant best friend.

[wrs840]

^^^^

Not trying to be a wet blanket, but I'm a bit skeptical of light banter about shotguns in bars. I've been in a biker bar when a 12ga was deployed and fired. It wasn't a happy moment, in any way, for anyone there.

Les

[Gunfighter123]

Not trying to be a wet blanket, but I'm a bit skeptical of light banter about shotguns in bars. I've been in a biker bar when a 12ga was deployed and fired. It wasn't a happy moment, in any way, for anyone there.

I'm sure you know the posters were just jokeing around ---- as far as you being in a biker bar and a shotgun being fired ---- I been in a alley in Chicago and a SG was fired and blood was shed ---- but I wouldn't be a "wet blanket " about it in a InterNet Gun Forum knowing people were just jokeing around.

[Dr. Fresh]

At a time when a cowboy made $5 at the end of a month of work, shotguns and shotshells were a little out of the price bracket. Surplus Army pistols were cheap and easy to get.

I dunno about that. I think your typical cowboy (or anyone else for that matter) would get much more use out of a rifle or shotgun. I doubt most people even carried handguns.

[wrs840]

OK Gunfighter123, I'm fine with the joking around.

Drunks bleeding-out on bar-room floors left quite an impression on me the two times I witnessed it, I guess.

Sorry about the wet blanket.

Les


Tough crowd. :D

[mlaustin]

I always thought that the average cowboy had a lever action rifle...preferably chambered in whatever his pistol was chambered in. That's what the movies taught me, at least :-D.

I think most cowboys (or normal people, hell) don't get into a bar expecting a gunfight...but would readily turn to a pistol when one started. You bring a shotgun to a bar, you're basically expecting to shoot someone...And why would you go into a bar expecting that and not dispatch the threat immediately?

[CajunBass]

I'll bet you learned that on the internet didn't you? ;)

[MK11]

I doubt polite had anything to do with it. A shotgun is a pain to lug around when you're going on a bender, groping the saloon "talent" or blowing your wages in a poker game.

And if we're challenging Western myths, the violence in cities like San Francisco made most "Wild West" towns seem like Quaker meetings.

[MCgunner]

Well, the reason I wouldn't carry my shotgun into a bar is I've been in the holding cell here and didn't like the accommodations much. I just figure it's better to stay out of the bar. Don't go lookin' for trouble and you won't find it. :D When I was young and dumb, I have been in some of those bars, though. I don't even drink anymore, an occasional beer. I have a sixer of Shiner in the back of my refrigerator that's been in there since last hunting season when my buddy came down to hunt. I guess we'll knock it out this year, well, a few bottles of it, anyway. LOL!

[MCgunner]

And if we're challenging Western myths, the violence in cities like San Francisco made most "Wild West" towns seem like Quaker meetings.

Or Houston, or San Antonio, or most of all, New Orleans. Half of New Orleans got scattered all over Texas, though. I don't know if FEMA has stopped payin' 'em, YET! :rolleyes: In Houston, they started calling them, "Katricians". ROFL! The minute they moved into the dome and started whining about how bad they were being treated, crime went up double or triple on that side of town, crack deals, armed robberies, and murders.

[BMF500]

at least these shotguns are uncouth.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/earlthegoat2/double-defense-1-tm.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/earlthegoat2/silo_4000_vinci_12_syn_ct_field.jpg
ha!!! +1

[John828]

Maybe back there were saloon ninjas instead of mall ninjas.

[MK11]

I meant the violence in cities at the same time, late 1880s. But yes, contemporary comparisons work too.

[MCgunner]

Well, I've always told people who talked about the world turning into the wild west when talking about not wanting CCW laws that if it WERE the wild west, I'd feel a lot safer! Modern times demand I be armed. Not many unarmed shop keepers got killed in those wild west cow towns. Now days, it's the unarmed that are targeted and oft times a complete stranger.

Besides, they didn't have MS13 back in the day.

[Geneseo1911]

At least these shotguns are uncouth.



Don't forget this one:
http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2009/Day1/DSC04853.JPG

[smithmax]

^^^
I'm repulsed and intrigued at the same time. I really hope that was put together as a joke.

[BMF500]

^^^
I'm repulsed and intrigued at the same time. I really hope that was put together as a joke.
No man, that's a current model...Model 500 Road Blocker TALO Special Edition, uglier than home made sin....

[bear71]

"Where did you learn that?"

Hi Lee,

I gained the information from a book titled "Revolvers" by respected firearms author George Nonte which I am currently reading.

[Lee Lapin]

Thanks. Us old librarians like for people to cite their sources.

I haven't read that particular book. I do have a copy of Nonte's Combat Handguns, but not the revolver book. I'll have to keep an eye out for a copy.

I do have a copy of Thomas F. Swearengen's The World's Fighting Shotguns though. I've had an interest in fighting shotguns for a good while. Swearengen cites numerous occasions where western lawmen, badmen and plain old citizens preferred using shotguns to pistols when trouble was in the offing. And he pictures a number of specific shotguns with connections to specific individuals and events as well.

Shotguns may well have been considered uncouth by some, including Nonte. Yet if it was known that there was trouble in the wind, a lot of folks in years gone by chose to face it with a shotgun handy, if not in hand. No, they weren't often carried about on a daily basis, as were handguns. Of course, there were exceptions to that as well, like Orrin Porter Rockwell, who was reputed to carry a sawed-off pistol grip double barrel shotgun under his coat.

But few pistoleers were willing to face a shotgun in the hands of an opponent willing and able to use it. Which is why a certain number of people who were expecting trouble often carried shotguns in the old days. In fact, some still do...

lpl

[gunnie]

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usas-12.jpg

the USAS 12, uncouth AND overweight, but i ain't gonna tell her!!!!

gunnie

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Well I reckon when William Munny busted open the swingin doors at the saloon in Unforgiven carrying his side by side, the folks inside thought he probably wasn't there to sing show tunes - and THEN he started shootin - talk about uncouth!

[Hokkmike]

And then you think of the English gentlemen with their engaved doubles and wool vested suits. Nothing could be more couth and proper.

[theotherwaldo]

In most towns where a cowboy was likely to go, carrying any kind of gun into a bar meant meeting a man with a star - and all of his posse. Even where carrying was permitted, carrying it in hand was considered to be declaration of intent to break the law. Not conducive to living a long life.