[duckfoot]

What is it that makes High Power riflemen different from other shooters? They don’t load up and blaze a path through a forest of steel targets downing foes that reside in imagination. It’s not the blast of a big .50 that drives them to the range every chance they get. Not even the thrill of the hunt could appeal to them as to those that hunt and stalk big game. What would drive a person to contorte themselves into unconformable even painful positions and invest a large amount of time money and effort for the chance to slowly put one round at a time into a paper target. Why do iron sights, long distance, and small targets have them coming back time and time again? They shoot out in the cold of winter, the heat of summer, rain, snow and everything between. Are they ill? Are they defective? No normal person would do these things of their own free will for so little gain. Why? Why why why why…….

Could it be for the glory of placing high shooter at a match under the eyes of good friends? Is it the chase of the little gold badge of "Distinguished Rifleman" that is so sought after that of the many that reach for it only a few succeed? Is it being able to lose ones self in the moment that all you feel, hear, and see is a blurry black circle and a crisp front sight post weaving around inside a tiny metal ring? Or, battling their own bodies on order to place each shot exactly where they want to time and time again? Friendship? Glory? Control? Challenge? Who knows! Ask a few and you’ll never get the same answer twice.

When you think about it, High Power shooters are pretty rare even among our own larger shooting community.

[45R]

One of the HP Shooters did this with Surplus ammo this weekend.


http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.djl47/targets/m1a_snm_20031025_sb_splice.jpg

[TheeBadOne]

High power shooters (in my parts) are pretty cool cats. :cool:

[cracked butt]

:D Discovering highpower was probably the best thing I ever did. The fact that I couldn't get into a solid sitting position prompted me to work very hard at losing 35 lbs this year.:neener:

My wife is going in for lasik surgery later this year and has asked me to get it done too. I replied that the only time I need glasses is when I'm shooting rifle matches and I need to wear protective eyewear anyhow, and I'm not sure how it might mess with my vision when my eyes age.

[C.R.Sam]

It is a Zen thing of sorts.
Wheelbarrow full of money's worth of gun n gear.
Travel to places with horrible food and worse beds.
Alienate most of your relatives.
Hunting Xs like kids after easter eggs.

Master and up...
Cannot be bought.
Only earned.
With the mind.
And all of the above

Actually applies to handguns, long guns and smooth bores.
He who drives himself toward the elusive possible.
Is strange indeed.
One who strives to be the very best possible.
Rare bird indeed in these modern and soft times.

Sam

[Sven]

STRANGEly nice and willing to help new shooters, maybe!

My god, I've never found a bunch of guys more willing to help me learn something than at my first HP match. I had a spotter giving me advice every step along the way... can't wait to get my M1A back from my Smith so I can shoot my next match!

[ACP230]

Many HP shooters also hunt and some shoot .50 BMG rifles.
I am one of them.

With handguns I've also shot bowling pins, bullseye, PPC type, and IDPA matches, plus the occasional steel plate match.

Some of us are just generalists, I guess.

[cookhj]

because it takes DISCIPLINE to shoot well under those horrible conditions while contorted in painful positions.

i love highpower and wish i had time to do it again. it was one of the things that helped me set the course for where i am now (believe it or not).

highpower shooters are some of the greatest bunch of people that i've ever met. they would give you the shirt off your back in the middle of a match if that's what you needed to finish.

no offense to any smallbore shooters, but they are the most stuck up bunch that i have ever had to shoot with. i'm glad i got out of that during my sophomore year in college.

[wanderinwalker]

First stop: Sam, awesome post!

Second: ACP230, generalism rules.

Third: cookhj, I concur about the differences between High Power and smallbore shooters. Although, have you ever met Larry Racine?? :rolleyes:

My little brother shoots smallbore. He has been to Perry twice in the past two years for shooting school. I've just gotten into Highpower and hope to partake in the insanity of Camp Perry in a few years, maybe summer before my Senior year here at college. Who knows?

For me, Highpower is more entertaining than any pistol shoot or trap event. There is just something about the challenge of discipline. Plus, I have shot next to many High Masters, and let's just say I want it. So I'm going to work for it. This spring's goal is Expert, Master by or beginning in next season. We'll see how it goes.

[Steve Smith]

Wanderin if we oughtta move this to the Rifle forum. Duckfoot, what do you think?

Highpower is about the only stabile thing in my life. When I got divorced last year, I was an Expert, and could not break out to save my life. once I purposed in my heart to make Master, my troubles with the ex seemed to fade considerably. I know of no other sport that your fellow competitors will sense your problems, comfort you in times of need, offer shelter, encourage you before a string or when you are at home feeling down, or even congratulate you when you beat them. Thankfully, by the time I made Master, I was much more mentally stable and could think about the ex without wanting to "fix things" again...just another person I've known now. I owe that stability to Highpower and nothing else.


Duckfoot, are you Distinguished yet? Got 10 points here. I think I'll get it in 2004. That is the plan anyway...course, now I have the monkey on my back and he will do cartwheels on my barrel at leg matches. I always have a bannana in my cart for bait now. Seemed to work...The first time I put out the bannana bait, I got 10 Leg points at Perry.

[bogie]

Benchresters are weirder.

[TarpleyG]

Sounds a lot like serious yacht racing to me:scrutiny:

GT

[cookhj]

bogie, you are so right!

[4v50 Gary]

Remember, some of our best snipers were high power shooters before they took up the latter vocation. Eric England, Carlos Hathcock of the Viet Nam era, John George of WW II, etc. I'm glad we got them and many others.

[HankL]

My hat is off to the guys and gals that get off on doing the bake and steam at the 600 yd. line in the summer time. :)

[Steve Smith]

Aww, Hank, if ya hydrate properly, you don't even notice!

Or is it, "The more you cook your brain the less you notice?"



Can't remember.

[Topgun]

All those shots and he STILL missed the silver dollar.



;)

[hillbilly]

Well, consider how popular golf is.

Golf is one thing I cannot for the life of me understand.

And then ask yourself, which sounds like more fun, a round of golf, or a High Power match?

I know which one I'm going for.

Give me that leather shooting jacket any day.

hillbilly

[duckfoot]

Gents,

The reason for that post is simple and complcated at the same time. We had one of my wife’s coworkers over for dinner the other night and she was looking at some pictures I had of some High Power matches I shot a while back. As she was looking things like "what's the point?" and "That looks like it hurts" spilled out of her mouth. I tried to explain some of my reasons for shooting and realized that from her perspective we are a bit strange in this modern world.

This got me thinking about the sport that I love. The roots of high power shooting go WWWWAAAYYYY back to the days of Daniel Boone and Moutain Men and is older than almost every sport in America. Plus High Power is a sport that just gets in your blood and is better done than watched. I could go on and on about the why, but unless you go and shoot a match you'll never know.


CR Sam

Zen thing is so ture!


Steve

My post was more a statement about High Power shooters than rifles, but I don't mind if you move it

Duckfoot, are you Distinguished yet?

Sad to say, no. but I'm back on that road again! Life lately has been getting in my way again, and shooting took a back seat for a while. I figure between the matches at Stone Bay (if they still have them) and Camp Butner I should be good to go in no time.

[Sven]

Move it to 'Competition Shooting'?

[Steve Smith]

Moved by (popular?) request. lol




Got some points yet, Duckfoot?


I sure would like to shoot at Butner sometime...I've heard it's really nice. Who knows, maybe I'll move back to my old stompin grounds sometime and make Butner my home range.

If any of you come to Colorado to visit, let me know first. We;ll get you hooked up with a match or two.


I can't get over Sam's post. Every word was true...motel rooms and bad food especially.

[Hutch]

I knew I didn't have what it takes to strap up tight in a black quilted leather jacket and lie in the sun in August in Alabama. With a sweatshirt (so appropriately named!) underneath. My excuse is, my 48-yo eyes just can't handle the chore. The reason is, I can't bring myself to do what it takes to really compete. I might get "in the zone" and do fairly well in IDPA, or SASS, but in HP, they ain't no such thing as luck.

[Dr.Rob]

Well if its any indication...


Steve has convinced me to try it.

So, being of unsound mind and having NO idea what I'm getting into, the sporter stock is coming off my Remington 1903a3, the military stock is going back on. Already have the proper sling, 20 stripper clips are enroute from Gunparts. Maybe I should have bought that fancy shooter's jacket at Deans? Have an ammo can full of hand loaded 165gr Sierra game kings (close to 168gr national match). Or should I buy some 150 gr ball ammo? (these are my cache of hunting loads) Sighted it in last time with 150's.. need to shoot it some more. Funny while shopping I came across catridge belts and bayonets and I was tempted...

It's not a full-on match... some sort of Pearl Harbor Memorial Match so it should be cold, snowy and miserable. Sound like fun. shooting tip: pretend the snow is the white sandy beach of Waikiki.

[Steve Smith]

Since you are attending the Pearl Harbor Commemmorative Match, the only reason for the other stock is just to be "in the spirit" of the day. I want to shoot my AR but I will most likely shoot a Garand, unless you would like to shoot mine.

I have tons o good slings. And a mat. And a Spotting Scope. and an extra coat that should fit you. And a shooting glove.



Hmm...just remembered...I will be in Vegas Dec 4-7th attending a Willie Nelson concert and getting wild. A tribute to our Pear Harbor dead will be performed on that day, nevertheless. Dr. Rob, I'm sure that JC121 can transport my equipment to the range for you and can also coach you very well.

[duckfoot]

Steve,

Only two 6 point awards at this time and that's from when I was in the Marines and I think I need to get them rolled over to civilian and get back on that road. I figure that hitting Camp Perry madness and every leg match I can get to I can squeeze an 8 or a 10 pointer along the way before hitting 30.

But I got a few issues to deal with

Seemed to have misplaced my good spotting scope and the old shooting jacket is a lot tighter than I want .:( So it looks like I got lots of early morning runs, power stretching and saving up for an IOR Valdada Hermes HA.:D I’ve been hankering for another leather shooting jacket, but the saddle maker (great guy and made a heck of a lot more than saddles) that made my first one, died a year ago.:( So other than those few minor details yeah I'm back in the hunt!!

[Swamprabbit]

I do it for the competition with myself to constantly get better. Started high power this year and made Expert with my first two matches. Working on Master now and started it with a 764 15x just a couple of weeks ago.

What I like about it is that all the shooters I have met will do anything they can to help you out and I try to do the same to anyone else. It is a "dream" competition where everyone wants to win but they want to win knowing that it was sheer skill with all the equipment, and other, variables made constant. This way, you know you are going against the other shooter, not his/her equipment or ammo.

High Power competition is something I had been wanting to do for over 20 years and am getting to be a kid again (I am 40 now). At least I didn't do the red convertible/neck chain thing for my mid-life crisis ;)

[Steve Smith]

Duckfoot, you and I will keep working on it. My goal for 2004 is to go Distinguished. I might get a High Master card in the process, but it is not my goal. After going Distinguished I will focus on High Master. I imagine I will shot a lot of matches this year without sighters, just to add to my ability level and to always practice for leg matches. I have one 10 point leg under my belt at this time.

Swamprabbit, good start! I essentially made my way up through the ranks, skipping only Sharpshooter. You could still get the gold chains. ;)

[ks_shooter]

Hillbilly,

I have been shooting Highpower for a year now. I also enjoy golf, even though I don't do it that much. It can be just as challenging to rip a straight drive down the fairway, as it is to lauch little lead pills at a target 600 yards away;) .

In fact, in trying to explain to my wife why I love Highpower so much, and why it doesn't make me weird, I told her "it's like golf with bullets". This didn't convince her since she doesn't like golf either. But I think she got my point. Is shooting at paper from insane distances any stranger than beating the hell out of a little white ball with an iron club?

[cookhj]

no, they're both mental sports. your mind has to be in the game to do well in both golf and shooting.

[Steve Smith]

More than being "in" the game, you must have the knowledge that you are good in order to really excell. Some will view that as cockiness, but I know what I can do and I know where my weakness lie. If a particular shooter has a bad day at 200 Standing, I know I can clean his clock, OR, if I have an exceptional day at Standing, I know that I will be very near the top for the whole match. That's not being cocky, it is knowing your abilities and reinforcing your subconscious with it.

[Publicola]

Steve Smith,
Your name sounds familiar. (bet ya never heard that before - lol).
I shot my first High Power match in Sept. of '02 out at Colorado Rifle Club. I used a borrowed Garand & had no idea of the equipment required so I ended up having most of hwat I needed lent to me. There wasa shooter there with a .308 match gun that was most helpful in tips & loaning equipment (we were assigned the same target). I brought a buddy of mine along & he helped him as well. I could have sworn his name was Steve but the details are a little fuzzy. So I was wondering if that was you?

Ah, but the joys of High Power. I had my g/f pose for some pics that went along with an article I was doing on the shooting positions & using a sling a few months back. I explained to her the basics & more or less moved her as I needed for the pics, but she got a basic idea of what it was like. Well, minus the recoil, smell of powder & holes someplace on the target. I explained to her that if it was for real, the positions & sling would be painful as oppossed to uncomfy. I think she thinks I was just trying to impress her. lol

But here's a question for y'all: High Power shooting is mainly a competetion now but it derived from (among other things) the training given to soldiers by the military. So do y'all feel that High Power shooting is or has drifted away from the practical?

Spotting scopes are necessary in a competition, as are shooting glasses & hearing protection, but have y'all ever tried it w/o a special glove, special coat, & mat to lie down on? Seems to me it'd be slightly more realistic if only coats & gloves you'd wear hunting were allowed, or no coats at all if it's hot. & just having the ground in front of you to lie on instead of a mat.

Don't get me wrong - I'm definitely not saying it's too easy as is, or it's too comfy as is. I was just wondering if anybody else thought the special equipment was detracting from what was the intended purpose of High Power matches - to train people to become rifleman in the field.

& it has struck me as to how nice High Power shooters have been in my limited experience. I'd heard from an ex- Airman who shot on the AF rifle & pistol teams that High Power shooters were competitive & it wasn't a relaxing atmosphere, but I'm thinking things are different in the civy world, or at least among the bottom feeders like myself on the High Power chain.

[Steve Smith]

I haven't shot up at CRC in a while...I prefer to shoot at Buffalo Creek or Cheyenne or Raton. I'll shoot at the State Championships at CRC and that's about it.

Concerning the use of a sling, glove and spotting scope, I have my own opinions. The Marines still teach proper sling use and they use a coat (albeit a light one) during marksmanship training. One cannot learn to be a rifleman by trying to "be tough" or "be realistic." Just as any other learned skill you will do your best if you learn it in a "classroom" environment first. Besides, the "rifleman on a hill" will take two or three shots at most and move, whereas the Highpower shooter shoots all day from position. Once you learn the postitions well, it is easy to convert them to "realistic" use.

A majority of the Marine sniper community had their start and finish in NRA Highpower. The snipers were drawn from upper echelon Highpower rifle teams. Those men already knew how to lie on the ground and place a single round on target with deadly accuracy. The men were self-driven to exceed in the discipline, rather than being "directed" to do so in a "sniper school."

Highpower hasn't changed since the early 1900s except to make the targets tougher and to allow newer Service Rifles upon occasion. Coats, gloves, slings, spotting scopes, they were all there.

[duckfoot]

All the aides used in formal High Power increase the potential for more accurate shot placement and refining the sport. The essance of the sport is still there.

Nothing wrong with informal Mountain Man Matches. Been in a few myself, and did better than most because of shooting (formal) High Power. Informal High Power or what is called Mountain Man Match in these parts, are shot with old style black power percussion or flint lock rifles, with rope or strap slings and no jacket. These matches have snap shooting and position shooting and can test how well rounded a shooter really is. For example in formal high power for kneeling I can sit on my foot sideways, but I take my time getting into the position so I don’t break my ankle. If I tried that snap shooting in a mountain man match where I have to drop down into a kneeling position in a hurry I’d snap that ankle in a hurry too, so I have to shoot sitting on my heel instead for kneeling which I also learned in high power. The experience that I gained from formal High Power shooting will always carry over to any type shooting that can be done with a rifle.

Now High Power in the service is stressful to a point, especially if you are on a unit rifle team, but that’s the point of the team is to perform at the high level possible. If you stress out or burn out and fall below par you can lose your place on the team. In the civilian world you are only competing against yourself, and stress isn’t a problem.

That’s just the way I see things and my .02 bits

[Jon Coppenbarger]

Strange?

Well maybe if you are outside looking in.
I think golf is strange but its hard to master also.
Years ago when I started I thought that I was a pretty darn good shot untill I shot a approved nra 80 shot reduced match and I was not even close to being respectfull.

After watching a few of the masters I also had the need to learn the sport as I knew it was not a easy thing and me just dishing it or making excuses for my lack of knowing how was not going to make up for being a ok shot.

Some of the best folks you will ever want to meet.

[Grump]

Spotting scopes are necessary in a competition, as are shooting glasses & hearing protection, but have y'all ever tried it w/o a special glove, special coat, & mat to lie down on? Seems to me it'd be slightly more realistic if only coats & gloves you'd wear hunting were allowed, or no coats at all if it's hot. & just having the ground in front of you to lie on instead of a mat.

Yeah, I do it all the time. On purpose, usually. But I shot one state championship many years ago using no glove and my medium-weight *non-shooting* leather jacket because I left the real one behind. The real one was just an old 10-x cloth jacket with rubber elbows, felt padding, and a leather patch on the shoulder.

Look at the team pictures from the 1960s and earlier, and you'll see almost all cloth jackets.

We do it to measure our skill against a known standard and seek perpetual improvement. Build your own "bench" with your position and fight the elements and hold hard for the X. Control your body to eliminate flinch, be aware of conditions to beat the wind.

It's a perfect exercise for fixed-position defense. I like rattle-battle, too, but have done it only twice (don't ask--first one it was starting to snow and I was still new and flinchy).

And it made me shine the first time I fired in a 3-gun match. Up __ clicks to engage the 200-yard papers and up two more for the 300-yard gong. Top 3, IIRC, with a slow-recoil-reovery M1.

Yeah, we're weird. But you'll be CRYING for our services if the Hordes ever invade our enclave of freedom!

edited to add *non-shooting*