[myhandle87]

Maybe not right now, but sometime within the next few years I'd like to start doing some wildcat stuff. Does anyone have and opinions on a good starter cartridge, preferably in the .30 cal range (and .308 diameter is best!).

[rcmodel]

Todays factory chamberings cover every base there is left to cover.
There is almost no good reason for wildcats anymore, other then being the only guy at the range who has one.

And a rifle he can't sell for what it is worth because you have to make ammo for it.

Most of the supposed claims of superior / outlandish performance guys were getting back in the day went out the window with modern pressure testing methods and $100 dollar chronographs.

rc

[Walkalong]

Yep, it's mostly all been tried. But hey, it could be fun. Folks still do it. Use your imagination. Try something that intrigues you. :)


.308 & 30-06 (30 Cal) have been necked up, down, and around to death. Shoulder changed, blown out etc, etc. ;)

[fguffey]

http://www.z-hat.com/smashing_the_headspace_myth.htm

http://www.z-hat.com/Hawk%20Forming.htm

Pay close attention to the wording "A true Wildcat"

I have not completed the rifle but chambered it in a variation of the 338 Hawk, I cut the chamber with a 338/06 reamer, a matter of keeping up with chamber length from the bolt fact to the beginning of the throat, case length 2.494, chamber length 2.502, then I cut the chamber body with a 280 Remington reamer that did not cut the neck portion of the chamber, this gave me a 338/280 Remington chamber that is the same length as a 30/06 with the shoulder cut .051 ahead of the 338/06 instead of the 2.541 length chamber of the 280, the 338 Hawk case length is 2.465.


Back to a true wildcat, I have formed the case using modified dies, before I started the dies were C&H 280 Remington and RCBS 338 Winchester Magnum dies, I made a body/shoulder sizing die using the 280 full length sizer die and will use the 338 Winchester die as a neck sizer die, the cases will not require fire forming because the cases were formed with dies, both sets of dies cost $22.00 at the Dallas Market Hall Gun Show.

I have a 30 Gibbs that requires fire forming, the neck on the 30 Gibbs is .217 long, an (expensive) alternative is to purchase straight barrel (Cylinder Brass) cases, 20 cases for $39.00 dollars (100 for $165.00), the straight cylindser case can be formed then sized to fire with out fire forming, it is a matter of being able to keep up with the position of the shoulder when sizing (if dies are available).

http://www.z-hat.com/Cylinder.htm

30 Gibbs, without removing the barrel or changing the bolt face the 30 Gibbs reamer will remove all of the 30/06 chamber and move the shoulder forward .162 plus head space.

F. Guffey

[MMCSRET]

I've built up a few "wildcats" such as 338-06 before there was a standard, 8MM-06 is still a good one, 6X47 is good and sort of standardized as Federal made a small run of nickel plated cases in the late 60s or early 70s. What I find more interesting now is revitalizing an obsolete and out of, or at least limited production cartridges such as 43 Spanish and 7.7X58MM Japanese. I wanted a 7mm08 so I had one built to my specs, great cartridge in most any rifle, but mine is "MINE" and not like anyone else. I wanted a 38-55 on a 94 Winchester or a Marlin 93, I wasn't willing to pay the price asked for the better ones so I had one built to my specs on a modern 94 action. I find satisfaction and pride in all of these.
Look around, there are lots of little ways to personalize your cartridge or firearm.

[griz]

What do you want your wildcat to do? That will make a big difference in which one you "need". The possibilities range from Ackley Improved cases that have cataloged dies and can fire factory rounds, all the way to truly one of a kind creations where you will have to have reamers, dies, and everything custom built. As has been mentioned the factory choices already cover a LOT of ground.

[krs]

In the winter of 1910-1911 Mr. C.E. Howard had a severe problem with coyotes killing his livestock. With his own firearms he had been unable to approach the wily creatures often enough to kill them in sufficient numbers and save his own animals.

Mr. Howard corresponded with A.O.Niedner, then of Massachusetts and a widely respected gunsmith, asking if a rifle could be designed to resolve Mr. Howards problem. Mr. Niedner, after due consideration, thought that a rifle which could shoot at long range with velocity enough to allow for a flat trajectory and the accuracy needed would be something he could make available and the two agreed on a transaction.

Mr. Niedner shipped a Winchester Hi-Side equipped with a 26" barrel chambered for a cartridge made from the .32-40 B&M case and necked down to use .22 caliber bullets, a supply of which were shipped along with the rifle.

Using the rifle provided by Mr. Niedner (there is no mention but dies, brass, and bullet mould would likely have also been shipped) Mr. Howard killed 60 coyotes with consecutive shots at an average range of 278 yards for the first 45 coyotes shot and somewhat further after those as it seems that the animals "wised up" to something bad going on around them.

Later the same combination gave Mr. Howard repeated 4" 200 yard 10 shot groups on target. The spread from the rifle's usual 1" at 100 yards was atributed to the effect of winds over the longer range. The velocity was estimated using the methods of the day to be near 3800 fps.
(A quiet moment to contemplate a time when a man could shoot sixty coyotes on his property without hullabalu and probable jail time as would be his lot today)

The above is paraphrased from some of my favorite reading in a 1947 book entitled "Twenty-Two Caliber Varmint Rifles" by Charles S. Landis. It's a history of the development of fast shooting .22 cartridges from the turn of the century until the date of publishing. It's copyrighted 1947 by 'Small-Arms Technical Publishing Company' and it wouldn't surprise me too much if Amazon doesn't have a Stackpole version available.

Here's my point: in the years 1890 until the beginning of World War two there were many widely known and lesser known gunsmith experimentors who designed and made so called "Wildcat" cartridges for specific purposes because NO CARTRIDGES EXISTED WHICH WOULD ACCOMPLISH THE DESIGNER'S OR THEIR CUSTOMER'S DESIRED RESULT.

So before bandying the term around as some vague intention decide what in particular you want a rifle cartridge to be able to do for you. Then research the available cartridges to see if there is one which will do as you wish. If you find that there is not one then do go ahead and set your efforts toward designing and making one that will. More power to you and we will all be interested in your results.

[ForneyRider]

30-338 Lapua is nice. I think the Lapua is based on 416 Rigby case. This is similar to a 30-378 Weatherby in shoulder pain.

300 Savage in an AI configuration would be nifty.

or 30-30 AI in a single shot.

[Remo-99]

30-338 Lapua is nice. I think the Lapua is based on 416 Rigby case.

I was thinking in the same region as ForneyRider, the 416 Rigby has re-emerged again with the introduction of the WSM and WSSM calibres, theres plenty of room for exploration left with wildcat'ing the 416, imo, most other popular calibres have been wildcat'ed to death.