[emmie]

after 40yrs of shooting autos I have feel in love with wheel guns. but can't hit the barn with them. different grip-angle of grip,has me all over target.
I'm reloading 148 DEWC for practice but need instructions,on how to grip these pistols.
all the books and DVD are about auto shooting,anyone know of any info on revolver instructions?

thank you for your time

emmie

[scottaschultz]

Start here: http://www.myoutdoortv.com/pdk/web/smith.html?feedPID=00zG15zm84msK0GbWemanhJ0KNWQYqM4

Scott

[420Stainless]

I haven't noticed any particular difference after 25 years of auto only. I guess if you've been using the same platform all those years your muscle memory must really be in tune to a specific grip setup. I have small hands and do have to make an adjustment to shoot double action only. After reading some advice to shoot double action using the joint at the end of the finger instead of the pad, I found that I need to rotate my hand around to make that reach and still get a straight pull on the trigger. I do shoot much more accurately in double action that way. Single action I shoot the same way with either system.

There are a tremendous variety of grip shapes and sizes on revolvers as well as frame sizes too, so maybe you need to experiment to find combinations that give you a familiar feel.

Don't extend digits down (finger or thumbs forward grips often used on semiautos) the frame of a revolver. Very hot gases come through the gap between the cylinder and barrel.

[content]

Hello friends and neighbors // scottashultz : Thanks for the outstanding link! What could I add to that? /// Get DA trigger action worked (Lightened )by a good gun smith. ;- )

[Oro]

I made some suggestions to someone else the other day on this subject, 2nd post in this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=471606

Cliff Notes version: hand-filling grips like 420stainless mentioned, fore-aft tension (like Jack Weaver instructed), and dry-fire practice. Lots of it.

When I was much younger I used to modify my guns to become more accurate. Now I realize it's about modifying me, not the guns. ;)

[L-Frame]

I'll just throw this out that when any of my 1911 friends shoot my revolvers it's a mess. They're not used to a long trigger pull and pull through it much too quickly. After I tell them to shoot a few cylinder by pulling the trigger VERY slowly until they hit what they're aiming at, then very gradually start to pick up the pace and do fine.

[trickshot]

If you like shooting the old style revolvers, buy a copy of 'Sixguns by Keith'.
In that book he tells a wealth of information about how to shoot revolvers.

[Seamore2001]

Trickshot, can you check that title? When I plug it in to Amazon, I can only find out-of-print copies. And some of those used copies cost as much as a good sixgun!

[JAV8000]

Revolvers are very different from many autos, especially striker fired autos. I'm a young guy with small hands and still manage to shoot a Ruger GP100. I will admit it's quite a bit of defensive gun for me, but I've learned to shoot it well. That's after learning on a DA/SA auto (mostly SA shooting). You can learn one of two ways:

-Stage the trigger, as in pull slowly (at first) to feel when the sear engages so as to know when the hammer is just about to fall. Adjust your sight picture before the hammer falls.

-Pull through the entire length smoothly without staging. You have to have an iron grip to shoot real accurately this way.

Also a snub will learn you quick, if with some frustration.

[Nematocyst]

Checking in here.

Have not read suggested threads
but only because shooting a revolver
was intuitive, much like shooting a lever gun.

Suffice to say, I traded in a semi-auto for a revolver
and never looked back. (See sig line.)

[Datsun40146]

Shooting has always been second nature to most of us so it comes as no surprise that its harder to explain than anyone first thought. Point and click doesn't quite do it...

[Stainz]

To see how you are doing, trigger-wise, leave an empty chamber or two. When you get to it, you'll see the 'jerking' of the muzzle as you 'yank' the trigger. Kinda hard to do with a rude-case-tosser.

You'll notice your lower back appreciates a revolver, too... no leaning over to pick up empties. Also - empties stay in nicer shape... no extractor/ejector scratches (... or footprints!).

Stainz

[ESP]

Revolver shooting instruction from the great Jerry Miculek.

http://www.myoutdoortv.com/pdk/web/smith.html?feedPID=00zG15zm84msK0GbWemanhJ0KNWQYqM4

[scottaschultz]

ESP, welcome to THR. But with all due respect, it might be helpful to read all the posts before adding one of your own. (Scroll up to see the 2nd post)

Scott

[MovedWest]

Today I took my very first AR build to the range for the very first time. I was proud to print 10 of the 20 rounds I fired into the 9 ring or bull at 100 yards - after a few rounds to sight it in of course. To be honest it felt good to have a rifle back in my hands.

Much to my dismay, I fired 20 rounds out of my main super blackhawk 44 mag into a 25 yard target and only punched 2 holes in the black! The fact that I refer to it as "my MAIN super blackhawk" should be an indicator that I'm no stranger to revolvers.

I think when you get the feel of a weapon, it clings to you. Spend time with a weapon you want to be proficient with and it'll grow on you. Makes me think of the old adage "Respect the man at the range with one gun because he knows how to use it".

-MW

[Stainz]

When I worked as a public range RO, I often had 'down time' when I plinked with a revolver. This would include my 2" 10, 4" 625 (.45 ACP), and a 4" 625MG (.45 Colt), shooting DA from a standing 2 hand hold. I could hit a 16" steel plate at 110yd 2-5 times out of 6. This was especially disconcerting to the hunter day-shooters trying to ring that plate with a new scoped rifle fired from a rest. Of course, making my own ammo, I did get some practice in. It is all in your familiarity with the trigger break, etc.

I tried a few shots with my 625MG last week when I was out there - it had been a while. The safest place to stand on the range was in front of that plate!

Stainz

[lotstar]

Does anyone know what model SW the first revolver Jerry is shooting in the Grip video. Looks like 627 but with a gray barrel and unfluted cylinder?

[mp510]

You want to get your strong hand as high on the grip as possible. Wrap your weak hand around the left side of the grip. Apply down-ward pressure onto the strong hand thumb web with the weak hand thumb. Make sure your grip is firm. The pictures that I am including help show you understand better than I can explain.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6088/p1070672.jpg
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/4117/p1070673.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6420/p1070674.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5003/p1070675.jpg

[Marvin KNox]

I watched those revolver shooting videos a lot when I got back into handguns. I purposefully developed the over the top support thumb grip that Jerry recommends when I took to shooting a J frame as my primary carry gun and a J frame as my normal back up.

I have one semi auto - a little Ruger LCP. I use it for those times when I just can't make the J's work for comcealment.

Occasionally I take the LCP to the range with me a put a clip or two through it.

The J frame thumb grip has become so ingrained that I usually find myself using it for the first shot with the auto. I hurt my thumb every time. But I've never drawn blood. Lucky it's a little gun.

Such is life for a J frame revolver shooter.

[parisite]

When I was young I was taught that if a handgun was meant to be shot with two hands they would have been made with two handles on them.:confused:

[Sam1911]

When I was young I was taught that if a handgun was meant to be shot with two hands they would have been made with two handles on them

Isn't it funny, the pearls of "wisdom" that we bring with us from the hazy memories of childhood?

"Gems" like that make you really appreciate having grown up and gone on to learn better techniques from more accomplished mentors.

Still, you have to give the Dads, Grandpops, and other old-timers props. They often gave the best advice they could, from the limited training they had. And most of us wouldn't have started down the road to learning if they hadn't taken the time to share what they knew -- however limited.

-Sam

[Sam1911]

Apply down-ward pressure onto the strong hand thumb web with the weak hand thumb.

Watch Jerry's videos closely. He does recommend this for shooting the smallest revolvers (J-frames), but it isn't optimal for any full-framed gun.

Listening to what he says on the use of the weak hand: 70% of his grip strength comes from the weak hand. He wraps it tightly around his strong hand, and then folds his thumbs down hard on the left side of the gun. Very similar to the "thumbs forward" grip you (should) use with an autoloader, except tightened down more.

He uses the same grip for everything from his K-frames up to the .500 Mag.

The "thumb-over" grip is only for the J-frames.

-Sam

[StrateShooter]

There is the Mastering Revolvers DVD which I just ordered from Fishing Books and Videos/Striped Ostrich. I'll tell u if it's ne good. The 6 Guns book is by Elmer Keith and is at $42 thru Bookfinder which I might order myself.

[StrateShooter]

I just saw Jerry Miculek's videos. This is really good stuff.

[funkychinaman]

I've been wondering about this of late, and the videos did little to clarify for me: is one method of reloading with a speedloader better than the other?

Right now, I'm accustomed to Jerry's first method, of holding the revolver with the weak hand and using the speedloader with the strong hand. I've also practiced doing it the other way as well, holding with the strong hand and loading with the weak hand. The only problem I have with that is loading with speed strips with the weak hand is a pain. Any thoughts?

[Sam1911]

Right now, I'm accustomed to Jerry's first method, of holding the revolver with the weak hand and using the speedloader with the strong hand.

I just spent a year shooting nothing but revolver in competition. I do it his way, and most of the better revolver shooters I've watched do too.

It seems counterintuitive, perhaps, because you're shifting your firing hand off the stocks. But in practice, it is faster and easier. The simple tasks (holding the gun) are in your weaker and less dexterous "dumb" hand. The more complicated and accurate motions (retreiving the speedloader, feeding those bullet noses into the chambers, twisting the knob if you're using HKSs) are all in your strong "smart" hand.

You're then left to decide whether you'll eject the empties with the thumb of your weak hand which is holding the revolver, or if you'll smack the ejector rod with your strong hand while it's on its way to the speedloader pouch.

(I use the strong hand, but the weak thumb *could* be faster.)

It should go without saying that your speedloaders should be carried on the belt just in front of the holster.

-Sam

[Taildragger-J3]

Those were awesome videos. I've been shooting revolvers for years, but I've never seen anyone put so much lead through a wheel gun so quickly and accurately. Thanks for posting that link.

I don't have speedloaders for my .38's and I've never tried that kind of shooting, but I think I may give it a whirl.

[thales]

"Sixguns" by Keith is probably the best overall book about revolvers ever written. As Keith said, If you carry a sixgun every day, and use it nearly every day, for thirty years, you can hardly keep from learning something". Keith was an excellent marksman with both rifle and revolver and was instrumental in developing the .44 Magnum. He was seldom without his 4" S&W Mod. 29. The book is out of print and therefore a bit pricey, but the wisdom therein is priceless. Worth every penny.

[MrBorland]

one method of reloading with a speedloader better than the other?


I recall, this was discussed in the context of competition on the Brian Enos revolver forum. IIRC, there wasn't a consensus one way or the either as far as preference or which was better/faster, but what stuck with me is that the mechanics of Jerry's method is such that it's easier to get sloppy and allow the muzzle to break the 180, resulting in a DQ.

[StrateShooter]

It seems to me the moon clip is fastest and as fast as an auto mag clip. I know speedloaders go back to the 1800s, I think it was Mauser and Webley who designed them but when were these moonclips invented?

I tried to order the Keith book at $40 but they apparently don't send it outside the UK and the other copies are at least $100.

[Sam1911]

It seems to me the moon clip is fastest and as fast as an auto mag clip.

If you are VERY HIGHLY practiced and skilled with a moon-clipped revolver, you can reload as fast as a decent auto shooter. (Though still not as fast as a master-class shooter.) But it takes a LOT of practice to get to that point. And, when you've got it in your hands to run the gun that fast, you'll be pretty amazing with a speed-loader, too.

The steps are just a lot simpler with an auto and it's easier to get "decent."

You also, generally, face some compromises with moon clips. Moon clips really reach their best efficiency when running short stubby cartridges. .45 ACP usually, though the .40 S&W S&W wheelguns (the 646 or the 10mm 610, which can fire .40 S&W) are just as good. But, running moon clips with traditional longer revolver cartridges (.38 Special, .357, .44 Mag., etc.) is generally not as fast because the cartridges' length makes it a little easier for them to "droop" in the loader and not all be pointing exactly the right way. That means the ends can be mis-aligned enough to have one or two hang up on the cylinder face when reloading, which costs you fractions of a second. Also, the moon clips designed to grip these rimmed cartridges are thinner and not as stiff as the ones for rimless auto rounds, contributing to the same problem.

That also means that they bend easier. A bent moon clip will either not seat enough to get the cylinder closed, or possibly jam the gun as it tries to rotate. Gotta treat them with care. Speedloaders can take a lot more punishment before they die -- and they can't jam up the gun.

-Sam

[StrateShooter]

Duly noted, Sam1911.

[D R Greysun]

If you are VERY HIGHLY practiced and skilled with a moon-clipped revolver, you can reload as fast as a decent auto shooter. (Though still not as fast as a master-class shooter.) But it takes a LOT of practice to get to that point. And, when you've got it in your hands to run the gun that fast, you'll be pretty amazing with a speed-loader, too.

The steps are just a lot simpler with an auto and it's easier to get "decent."

You also, generally, face some compromises with moon clips. Moon clips really reach their best efficiency when running short stubby cartridges. .45 ACP usually, though the .40 S&W S&W wheelguns (the 646 or the 10mm 610, which can fire .40 S&W) are just as good. But, running moon clips with traditional longer revolver cartridges (.38 Special, .357, .44 Mag., etc.) is generally not as fast because the cartridges' length makes it a little easier for them to "droop" in the loader and not all be pointing exactly the right way. That means the ends can be mis-aligned enough to have one or two hang up on the cylinder face when reloading, which costs you fractions of a second. Also, the moon clips designed to grip these rimmed cartridges are thinner and not as stiff as the ones for rimless auto rounds, contributing to the same problem.

That also means that they bend easier. A bent moon clip will either not seat enough to get the cylinder closed, or possibly jam the gun as it tries to rotate. Gotta treat them with care. Speedloaders can take a lot more punishment before they die -- and they can't jam up the gun.

-Sam

Hummmmm!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJVoc5uJ2e4

D R

[Sam1911]

I believe what "D R" was getting at with that porridge of characters was this:

http://www.youtube.com/v/DJVoc5uJ2e4&hl=en&fs=1&

Which is a video of Travis Tomasic (so it says) doing a very fast speed-reload with a single-stack 1911 IPSC Open type gun.

That would be a good example of what I meant by a master (or Grand Master) class shooter with an auto being able to reload considerably faster than an equivalently skilled revolver shooter.

In the video, he nearly has to swerve to avoid the outgoing mag as he has the incoming mag up to the magwell almost before gravity has pulled the first mag clear of the gun.

Considering that he's doing a speed reload, rather than an "emergency" or slide-lock reload, it's probably a slightly unfair comparison. You can't top off a revolver at all without opening the action. Not that releasing the slide is going to add much time, but we're talking about small fractions of a second here.

-Sam

[Stainz]

With Ranch Products selling their blued steel moonclips now at $35/100 delivered, one can still afford to keep a lot more .45 ACP rounds 'ready' for a 25/625 than they likely could for a rude-case-tosser. Having loaded/unloaded thousands of such 'clips into/out of two 4" 625-8s over the last seven years, and never having discarded a moonclip because it was bent, I can only conclude that they are more stout than many would suggest. Admittedly, some of my early ones were modified, the entries openned a bit, to make loading some ammo easier - they proved unreliable and were discarded. I soon started making my own ammo and settled on new Starline brass for my revolver as it loaded more easily by hand.

I feel the .45 ACP moonclipped ammo is a viable alternative to the mag-fed bottom feeder. I have two metal .223 ammo boxes, each with five layers of 21 loaded clips, separated by a piece of poster hardboard/paper - that's 210 'clips. Add the two full food containers, each with fifteen, in my range bag - and the personal defender ammo loaded 'clips in my drawer, and you have close to 1,500 rounds ready to go - for less than a C-note total - including storage devices. What would it cost to have that many 7/8 shot 1911 mags full? How about 13 rd Glocks? Obviously, my storage of such a stash has a rationale. I've seen the cinematic masterpieces... I'm ready for the attacks of the Zombie hordes!

Back to reality. I also have a pair of 8-shot 627s... and keep 60 'clips loaded with Starline brass .357M homebrews, admittedly lite plinker loads - in food containers for range trips. The spindly spider-like legs are a bit of fun to try to load in a hurry, unlike the .45 ACP 'clipped loads, which go in as if on a tractor beam. I did discard a few used such 8-slot clips as they weren't flat - and had 'altered' entries. Again, Ranch Products has them in blued steel $50/50 or $75/100 delivered. While the eight rounds is comforting when you have five steel plates to drop in SPC, a nineth shot would be a real time killer due to the slowness of the reloads, giving the nod to the .45 ACPs and 625. Carry this over to the LEO realm, and I'd certainly rather have the .45 ACPs for easier/faster reloads in a bad situation. Of course, my last bottom-feeder, a G21 with +2 extenders for 15 rounds per mag, left here over eleven years ago - that would be a better 'duty' firearm. For a home/car/self defender, I'll keep a revolver. YMMV.

Stainz

[jc]

it would help if we had pictures where to hold our hands:D just a thought:D

[StrateShooter]

I got the Mastering Revolvers DVD today and it's a very good introduction. It's by Lenny Magill and Jerry Miculek's in it.