[2dogs]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35310

Bomb-sniffing pigs to protect settlements
Wild boars feared by Muslims, possess powerful snouts

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: October 28, 2003
4:00 p.m. Eastern



© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

It's government pork of a different sort.

Israeli officials will allow a test of a revolutionary security proposal that enlists wild boars to help sniff out Arab terrorists threatening West Bank Jewish settlements and identify them for human guards.

The animal is considered more suited than the dogs who currently hold the job.




"Pigs' sense of smell is far more developed than that of dogs," explained Kuti Ben-Yaakov of the Jewish Legion, a volunteer security organization that floated the idea.

"Boars could be better than dogs in finding mines and explosives," Geva Zin, a former trainer of sniffer dogs, agreed in an interview with the Israeli magazine, Israel Insider. "Look at their noses! God designed them to go into the field and find mines."

The guard pigs also have a secret weapon: Muslims consider the animal dangerous. According to Islam, whoever touches an "unclean" pig is not eligible for the 70 virgins in heaven.

Because the pig is also viewed as unclean under Jewish law, Ben-Yaakov had to get special approval from rabbis in order to begin training his newest four-legged warriors. Former Chief Rabbi Mordehai Eliyahu and Kiryat Arba's Chief Rabbi Dov Lior have given their endorsement.

"The prohibition of raising the pig is known," Rabbi Daniel Shilo of Kedumim, who serves as chairman of the rabbinical committee of the Yesha Council of Jewish Communities in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, told Maariv. "But because we are dealing with ... the saving of lives, it is permissible to have the animal."

Zin, 26, came up with the idea after encountering dozens of wild boars in Croatia.

"I watched their behavior and reached the conclusion that they could be better than dogs in finding mines and explosives," he told Israel Insider. Zin tested his theory through a nine-month research project at Israel's Institute for Animal Studies in Kibbutz Lahav.

According to Ben-Yaakov, the animals will be purchased from Kibbutz Lahav in the Negev through donations raised overseas.

Early reaction from Jewish settlers to the idea wasn't favorable.

"Spare us from this nonsense," a spokesman told the BBC. "It will never happen."

[TheeBadOne]

Could be. I've heard the same said about the use of pigs at Airports to sniff for drugs/bombs.

[Andrew Rothman]

Cool.

This also points out a major positive aspect of Jewish law: It's not a suicide pact!

According to the Old Testament, a "lesser sin" must be committed in order to prevent a greater one, and losing one's life is right up at the top.

Thou Shalt Not Steal, but it is permissible -- no, actually imperative -- that you steal food if you must to feed your family. If starving, a Jew may legally eat pork. Those who would be physically harmed by it are commanded NOT to fast on the high holidays.

So if raising pigs saves lives, it's cool with God.

You gotta like that kind of pragmatic doctrine.

Matt "Still not religious" Payne

[erikm]

It's certainly an interesting solution to an explosive problem even if it may not be entirely kosher. It does make me wonder how long it will take for palestinians to start burying truffles as decoys and lures. Could such an act be called BCCM (Biological Counter-Counter Measure)?

Cheers,
ErikM :evil:

[Kharn]

"Oh that, its just a truffle in my pocket. Its not a bomb. Why would you think its a bomb?" :uhoh: :scrutiny:

Kharn

[MicroBalrog]

"Mike Moore joins IDF ranks".:neener:

[jimpeel]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/justin/weekly/newsnat-28oct2003-56.htm

West Bank settlers turn to pigs for protection

Rabbis in Israel have reportedly been asked to approve plans to train pigs to guard West Bank settlements in a bid to thwart would-be Palestinian attackers from gaining "martyrdom".

The Maariv newspaper reports that directors of the Gdud Haivri, an organisation which supplies guard dogs to settlements in the West Bank, believe that pigs' more developed sense of smell will enable them to sniff out militants who hide before launching attacks.

"Pigs' sense of smell is far more developed than that of dogs," the firm's chief executive Gdud Haivri Yekutiel Ben-Yaakov told the paper.

"The pigs will also be able to identify weapons from huge distances and walk in the direction of the terrorist, thereby pointing him out.

"Moreover, this animal is considered to be dangerous by Islam and, according to the Muslim faith, a terrorist who touches a pig is not eligible for the 70 virgins in heaven," he said.

Rabbi Daniel Shilo, chairman of the rabbinical committee of Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) said that while the raising of pigs, which are banned under Jewish dietary laws, had traditionally been forbidden, the move should be approved in exceptional circumstances.

"Since this is a matter of saving lives, it will be permissible to have the animal," he said.

The residents of Adei Ad recently posted a gaggle of geese on the remote outskirts of their West Bank settlement in the belief that they would sound the alert if attackers approached.

[Orthonym]

That Rabbi was too practical. Otherwise, might have got me a good job as a shabbas-goy pig wrangler.

[cracked butt]

Muslims consider the animal dangerous. According to Islam, whoever touches an "unclean" pig is not eligible for the 70 virgins in heaven.

The Jews of israel should get some sort of mass dispensation from their Rabbis to allow pigs just to roam freely in large numbers in public. That should halt the suicide bombers. When Abdul has to call off his bombing run to go wash because he had to brush past a pig to get on a bus for the third time in a week, maybe he'll either figure out how absurd his religeon is or just plain give up. :neener:

On a lighter note, The Jews of Israel should take full advantage of this and should thank God that its not Leprechauns that muslims find to be unclean instead of pigs.:D

[HankB]

It's certainly an interesting solution to an explosive problem even if it may not be entirely kosher. :p

Reminds me of a story I read about a rabbi who invented a bullet for the Israeli Defense Forces that contained a bit of pork, on the premise that if a Moslem terrorist were shot with one, it would kill not only his body, but his soul as well.

Might be some truth to this idea . . . I once spoke to a guy who, many years ago, worked at the Twin Cities army ammunition plant in Arden Hills. a suburb of Minneapolis. He said that someone accused the Army of using a pork-derived lubricant to make bullets or jackets or something, and shooting a Moslem with this would be some kind of atrocity. This was considered to be so important that production was shut down for a time while the engineers went through things to document that NO pork products were used.

[cracked butt]

If that is all it took, I wouls say, pack our bombs and arttillery shells with pork and pork byproducts. I don't think Osamas minions will be sticking around with him too long if they find out that the US is starting to produce pork laced fuel/air or nuclear bunker busting bombs:evil:

[Yanus]

Load up a few 500 lb bombs with hog excrement and "let the $hit fly"...:evil:

Sounds like a plan..............

Yanus

[erikm]

"Oh that, its just a truffle in my pocket. Its not a bomb. Why would you think its a bomb?" :uhoh: :scrutiny:

Kharn
IIRC boars (male pigs) are used to sniff out wild truffles in France. It seems truffles contain something that smells like a sex pheromone to them.

Of course, if someone were to try to carry pheromone concentrate past a checkpoint, it could lead to interesting scenes if there are any boars around and the container isn't properly sealed... :D

Down Porky, Down! :D

Cheers,
ErikM :evil:

[Sergeant Bob]

I wonder if the idea of using pigs for bomb sniffing might also be a convenient way for the Israelis to harrass and degrade Palestinians?

[cordex]

Sgt. Bob,
Could be. 'Course, I have to say it is a bit more mild than the harrassment methods chosen by the Palestinians.

[MicroBalrog]

Reality check! The animal is also unholy for any traditional/religious Jew!

[Sergeant Bob]

Could be. 'Course, I have to say it is a bit more mild than the harrassment methods chosen by the Palestinians
No arguement here, and if it's actually effective, I have no problem with it. I think they should do whatever it takes to protect themselves.

[Oleg Volk]

Using pig and cow fat for bullet lubricants (for Enfield muskets, I think) triggered the Sepoy rebellion in the 1850s...don't think we want to offend the enemy, just kill them.

[MicroBalrog]

And, again, remember that many Israelis are going to be just as offended by this.:)

[cracked butt]

Aren't there alot of Chritians that live in Israel? Maybe they will give a helping hand with handling the hogs?

[jimpeel]

Sound File (http://www.barbneal.com/wav/ltunes/porky/Porky25.wav)

[Orthonym]

Addressing one's enemy as "Sir" and "Mister" right up to the time the hammer falls.

[chaim]

Reality check! The animal is also unholy for any traditional/religious Jew! Micro, the restrictions are different. They can't even touch one or they believe there is major damage to their souls.

For us, we can't eat them, and since they are usually raised only for food the rabbis decreed that we can't raise them. However, in a life or death situation many laws can be violated, including kashrus. If you are in a situation where you are literally starving to death and the only food available is pork, you can eat it. In a prison situation one can eat what is given if kosher food will not be made available. Only a few requirements are non-negotiable even if that means one will die. Certainly, if the pig is better at sniffing out bombs then the restriction on raising them can be ignored (for that specific purpose).

And, again, remember that many Israelis are going to be just as offended by this Probably just secular Israelis who don't quite understand the nuances in halacha (Jewish law). If the pig is a better choice for bomb sniffing most Orthodox Jews won't have a problem with this (I certainly won't).

[MicroBalrog]

Chaim, I know that, however, it is sufficiently unholy that it would not be used just because we needed a way to "offend" someone.


Chaim - many orthodox jews have a problem with serving in the Army at all.:banghead: :banghead:

[Cosmoline]

I'm actually a member of the Jewish Legion. We sent two GSD's over there a few months back, and they're kicking hind end. I know I'd be happier to see a pig used for explosive work than one of the D litter boys.

However, there is enormous and bizarre resistance among Israelis to using guard dogs, let alone bomb sniffer pigs. You can see some of that in the quote from the unnamed spokesman. The Legion was set up to specifically combat the traditionally-held view that no Jew can have a guard dog, esp a GSD, without appearing to be a NAZI. Indeed, there's a real fear that any such images will find their way all over European television, with the unsaid conclusion of JEWS = NAZIS. Frankly, given the effectiveness of the dogs and the fact that the Euros think this already, it's better to just start using dogs, pigs or whatever else comes in handy. After all, no security system, no matter how high-tech, is as good as a dog.

[M67]

Oleg, about the Sepoy rebellion. If my memory serves, that one worked the other way, it started with the shooters, not the "shootees". Local troops (Sepoys) rebelled because they were told that the paper cartridges they used were greased with cow fat (hindu troops) and pig fat (moslem troops). I don't remember if this was actually the case, but the soldiers in question found it somewhat distasteful to bite off the end of the cartridges when loading. The rebellion then spread from the soldiers to other parts of the population. This based on dim memories of history lectures I slept through more than ten years ago...

[chaim]

Chaim, I know that, however, it is sufficiently unholy that it would not be used just because we needed a way to "offend" someone.True, they are not using them to offend anyone. I'm sure it wasn't part of the decision making at all, or if it was it would have been a negative (Israel is actually usually more willing to take Islamic sensitivities into account than America). The choice to do it is going to be based on the fact that they (pigs) are good for the job, not the reason some here are thinking (or hoping).


Chaim - many orthodox jews have a problem with serving in the Army at all
Hmm, totally unrelated discussion and you bring this up. Pretty obvious you are Shinui (they are ultra-secularists to the point of being anti-religion/religious).

Anyway, it is true that many Orthodox Jews in Israel take deferments instead of serving in the military. As it stands now most units are not very suitable for a religious mentality (sexual promiscuity, foul language, close proximity to female soldiers who are not dressed in a modest fashion, some commanders and fellow soldiers who are hostile to those who are religious, etc.). There are units that are geared to religious soldiers and we serve well in those units. As officers we serve in all units at times. Last figures I saw showed us as about 1/3 of the officer corps and nearly 50% of junior officers (of course, we are also criticized for that as well as taking deferments- we can't win whatever we do). Also, remember that many religious Jews serve in the police and as paramedics. I know several people here in Baltimore who had to leave Israel because they were so burned out from picking up the body parts of those who were blown apart by suicide bombers (actually they were very burned out and depressed and their wives made them leave to get a break- if it was up to them they would have stayed until they had a complete nervous breakdown).

[Cosmoline]

"sexual promiscuity, foul language, close proximity to female soldiers who are not dressed in a modest fashion, ... etc."

WHERE DO I SIGN UP!?