Why I don't use Loctite on Mounts/Rings


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DRYHUMOR
August 30, 2009, 11:16 AM
I recall a few threads asking whether one would use Loctite or not. This is what I had to do to get a mount off of a rifle that someone mounted by Loctiting the screws.

No big deal really, but it's good to be aware of the potential issues before they pop up.

I got one screw out, the other two boogered up. Had to break out my trusty Dremel tool :D and cut down past the screw shoulders. The mount lifted up and off.

I've always used oil and proper torque to hold mount and ring screws in. But, some folks do use Loctite.

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Winston_Smith
August 30, 2009, 11:57 AM
What Loctite were you using? I use Loctite 222, the low strength stuff. I really like it on the receiver screw for 10/22's.

Beelzy
August 30, 2009, 12:42 PM
I would consider that a true testament to Lok-tite's stellar performance.

I don't use it on aluminum threads though, it rips them right out.

rcmodel
August 30, 2009, 12:49 PM
Blue Lock-Tighted screws can be removed with common gunsmith screwdrivers.

If somebody used red lock-tight, then you have to use heat on the screw to release it.

Usually, a soldering iron or pencil-flame torch held on the screw head will get it hot enough to smoke the lock-tight, at which point the screw will come out easily.

rc

Seafarer12
August 30, 2009, 02:53 PM
I use blue locktight and have never had a problem. What you should be telling people is don't use red or JB Weld. I picked up a Contender barrel once mainly for the fore end and the scope mount with the plans on selling the barrel for the price I paid for it. I had a lot of trouble getting the screws out of it. I thought I was going to have to drill them out. I finally got them out and had to pry the scope base off. Someone had used JB Weld on everything to mount that base including glueing the base down with it. Messed the otherwise perfect finish up. I refinished it the best I could and put a rear sight on it. I can't remember what I sold it for but It was quite a bit less because of the refinish on the barrel.

jimmyraythomason
August 30, 2009, 03:05 PM
+1 on the BLUE Loctite.

rodregier
August 30, 2009, 04:43 PM
+1 on blue locktite too. It's designed to be removable.

http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/222-EN.PDF

LOCTITE« 222 is designed for the locking and sealing of
threaded fasteners which require easy disassembly with
standard hand tools.

Tony Sopranno
August 30, 2009, 05:24 PM
DRYHUMOR:I recall a few threads asking whether one would use Loctite or not. This is what I had to do to get a mount off of a rifle that someone mounted by Loctiting the screws.

No big deal really, but it's good to be aware of the potential issues before they pop up.

I got one screw out, the other two boogered up. Had to break out my trusty Dremel tool and cut down past the screw shoulders. The mount lifted up and off.

I've always used oil and proper torque to hold mount and ring screws in. But, some folks do use Loctite. A bit of heat works really great to break down the Loctite bonds. Depending on the type used it either holds by expansion in the hole/confined space, or it adheres in an acrylic-like bond. Heat breaks down both... but be careful not to overheat past an extremely (very) hot point - you don't want to heat it so hot that it effects the tempering of the metals in question. A really good heat gun or a small torch would do it... just don't over-do it.

DRYHUMOR
August 30, 2009, 07:40 PM
Yeah, I get the heat part.

Unfortunately, the screw heads went early on.

I figured they were either over tightened or Loctited. Once I removed the mount, I saw the Loctite. And yes, it does do a good job.

I normally use the blue at work, sometimes the red, and once and awhile stuff called "bearing mount".

It's rated somewhere around 400 degrees. It's a PITA to remove something if someone uses it in the wrong application.

But, I don't use Loctite on ring/mount screws. Just my preference.

I do sometimes put fingernail polish on any threads that protrude though.

jbaker
August 30, 2009, 09:05 PM
When the screws got messed up should have used heat and a easy out that way the base could still be used.

ENCPirate
September 1, 2009, 04:46 PM
So is blue loc tite is not to hard to remove for mounts? I have been having a problem keeping some screws tight on one of my scope mounts and was about to put some on the screw threads next time I tighten it up.

rcmodel
September 1, 2009, 05:07 PM
I have used BLUE 242 LocTite on scope mounts & all gun screws that need it since the 1960's.

It comes out with a screwdriver & cleans off screws with a wire wheel buffer. That's what it's made for.

See this about that:
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=10&subid=48&plid=153

rc

DRYHUMOR
September 1, 2009, 06:40 PM
jbaker, I wasn't worried about the mount, I was replacing it with some Talley bases I had on hand.

ENCPirate, what RC said.

I use a good many of the Loctite products at work, fuel lines, air lines, engines, panels, screws, bolts, etc. There's nothing wrong with using it. As with anything, read the directions and use the proper type for the application.

It appeared that the stuff on the mount screws I dealt with was the red, judging by the residue. It has a stronger bond than the blue.

TexasShooter59
September 10, 2009, 03:02 PM
Can someone tell me how to get the blue loctite off of the receiver where it spread a little under the base? I am wondering if I can clean it up. Thanks.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 10, 2009, 03:23 PM
Here's what I do - don't know if it's right or wrong or best or not:

Red or Black other other color loctite - no, never, on anything.

Blue loctite:

1. On BASES, yes.

2. On rings, if it just uses hex screws, then no way; they can strip - jeebus I despise plain hex screws

3. On rings, if it uses torx or slotted screwdriver screws, then yes, but ONLY after I've shot that rifle/ gun combo for several years, thought it over a long time, and decided that THAT particular scope is the marriage made in heaven for that rifle for a long time to come.

4. When removing, if necessary, I DO use heat to help them break initially, even on blue, if they don't come right off - I just apply a flame (which is really probably NOT a good idea, since that can affect the heat treat of the steel I believe - but I do it).

I don't do aluminum anymore, so all of this applies to STEEL only.

People that do use it too much or incorrectly help to keep gunsmiths in business. I view this as a good thing. :)

Uncle Mike
September 11, 2009, 09:08 PM
People that do use it too much or incorrectly help to keep gunsmiths in business. I view this as a good thing.

While I understand your point Tad....I cringe when I have to work on a firearm that has been doused with Loctite.

IF one uses quality mounts, bases and rings, you wont need to get out the blue glue.

Also, most mount manufacturers will void warranty if Loctite was used on their product.

Sunray
September 12, 2009, 03:39 AM
"...my trusty Dremel tool..." Throw it away. You've destroyed a good mount that would have come off with a bit of heat. A fine pointed soldering iron or a few seconds with a propane torch would have loosened the Lock-Tite enough for a proper screw driver.
Rotary tools in the hands of inexperienced people have no place in gunsmithing.

DRYHUMOR
September 12, 2009, 07:50 AM
Throw it away! :eek: Never!

Sir I am qualified on that piece of equipment. :D I wouldn't just operate without training. ;)

I wasn't worried about that mount, in fact, I've got a small box with old mounts in it that I'll never use.

Those type mounts only use 3 of the 4 mounting holes. I prefer two piece mounts like Talley, or a single mount that uses all 4 holes.

stevehps
September 12, 2009, 09:22 AM
i think the people who invented loctite invented the dremel.

pmeisel
September 13, 2009, 12:38 AM
Loctite is great -- to use on cars and trucks.

AKElroy
September 13, 2009, 01:23 AM
Blue Lock-Tighted screws can be removed with common gunsmith screwdrivers.

I use Blue LT on bases only & nothing on the remaining harware. I like for optics to be easily replaced / moved / adjusted.

AKElroy
September 13, 2009, 01:32 AM
I just apply a flame (which is really probably NOT a good idea, since that can affect the heat treat of the steel I believe - but I do it).

Doc--I agree that heat would be a last resort. I just received a set of gunsmithing screwdrivers today, and reading the enclosed literature was eye opening. I have used heat in the past, but may refrain from doing it again after reading that just 400 degrees is enough to materially weaken heat treated steel.

This was in the context of filing driver heads to fit a particular application; the instruction being to keep an oil or other coolant bath flowing during the grind. If grinding / filing gets you over 400 degrees, I would think the flame would get there very quick as well.

dagger dog
September 13, 2009, 01:38 AM
An inch pound torque wrench, but you have to find specs.

As the old saying goes cross threading beats Loctite any day!

jmorris
September 13, 2009, 02:49 AM
On very fine threads I use E6000 http://eclecticproducts.com/e6000_ind.htm

It won’t allow the fastener to loosen by vibration yet can still be removed if you want it to, without damage. It has many applications that don’t involve fuel oils. IMOP red locktite shouldn’t be used on any fastener under ╝” in diameter.

DRYHUMOR
September 13, 2009, 05:43 AM
That stuff looks pretty spiffy.

CZguy
September 14, 2009, 10:47 AM
I've used purple locktite on scope mounts and screws for some time with good results. It's lower strength than blue.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=445105

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