Lever Action Project gun


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Tengu Joker
September 1, 2009, 12:46 AM
I've been wanting to make a scout lever action for a long time and I see myself being able to in the near future.I would like the forum's opinions on what I would like to do though.

308 caliber
18-20 inch barrel
Red Dot scope on a scout mount
Synthetic Stock
Non Reflective Satin finish on the metal

What do you guys think ?

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R.W.Dale
September 1, 2009, 04:59 AM
308 is going to limit you to two leverguns. The browning BLR and the defunct win88. Niether of which have any aftermarket support whatsoever.

Second if you're gonna use an unmagnified dot optic there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to mount it in the "scout" position.

greyling22
September 1, 2009, 10:05 AM
not if 308 includes the 308 marlin express. then marlin makes a 336 style lever gun for it. however, I was unable to find anybody who makes synthetic stocks for marlins that do not have a barrel band. (excluding custom outfits $!) xs makes a scout mount for marlin guns.

wulfbyte
September 1, 2009, 10:12 AM
.308 is the killer for this idea. In addition to what krochus said, there is also the Savage 99 that can be had in .308 It is also out of production and I don't see any movement to the rumors that Savage was going to reintroduce them. In fact, the Savage 99 was the only lever action to be considered for development as a scout rifle (as seen here (http://home.netcom.com/~chingesh/scoutconference.html)) but it was dismissed because it was and remains out of production.

In typical lever action configuration, Marlin has a number of calibers available that perform close to the .308 ballistics, and the .338 Marlin express will exceed them if I recall correctly.

The scout rifle concept is based on an extremely narrow definition for a very particular set of circumstances. I tend to agree with the concept when viewed within that very narrow definition, but I feel that more importantly, the scout rifle concept shows a road map of how to look at a specific task and tailor the weapon to be most suited to that task. Applying that to your question, you should be able to tailor a modern, production lever action to suit what you need.

I think MadOgre's cowboy assault rifle (http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/Marlin336CS.htm) is just what you are looking for.

H2O MAN
September 1, 2009, 10:20 AM
Consider a .45-70 Marlin Guide Gun.

This one now has a +2 mag tube extension...

http://athenswater.com/images/guidegun.jpg

Cosmoline
September 1, 2009, 12:32 PM
The Savage 99 came out in .308 and would work fine.

R.W.Dale
September 1, 2009, 12:43 PM
The Savage 99 came out in .308 and would work fine.



Are you actually suggesting someone "bubbitize" a savage 99 Cosmoline?

Jim Watson
September 1, 2009, 12:50 PM
You could look for an older lever action in the flopperoo .307 Winchester. That pretty much is a .308 with a semi-rim. I bet you could tweak the extractor on a Marlin to pull .308s.

Unfortunately the spitzer bullets used in most .308s would make that a hazardous operation. The Savage or Browning would be the only reasonable choice. If you want a Marlin or Winchester you will have to stick to flatpoints or a caliber that Hornady rubbernose bullets are available for.

chevyforlife21
September 1, 2009, 01:01 PM
the pointed 308 round can not be used in a tube magazine and good luck findin a sythetic stock for a lever gun

Cosmoline
September 1, 2009, 01:14 PM
Are you actually suggesting someone "bubbitize" a savage 99 Cosmoline?

Well you could just put a scout scope on it and a synthetic stock if you could find one.

But then again I checked GB and even the low end, late model 99E's in .308 are going for twice what they were a few years ago. So maybe scratch that idea.

336A
September 1, 2009, 01:29 PM
We really need more details from you so that we can better understand what your intended use will be. As has already been stated a scout style rifle fills a narrow niche. Since your requiement is for a .308 caliber cartridge then that only leaves the 30-30 or the 308 Marlin Express. Between thos two cartridges I would pick the ubiqutous 30-30 as ammo is a lot more common. Since your going with either an 18"-20" inch barrel I would save my $ and keep the barrel at 20". With the $ that is saved you will have more funds for the optic, scout rail and back up sights http://www.xssights.com/store/scope.html
as well as the satin finish project. As for the synthetic stock good luck finding one. If this were my project I would leave the wood stock on the rifle, the finish (Marsheild) that is applies at the factory is actually very durable. This is just my $.02 worth hope that it is of some help.

kragluver
September 1, 2009, 04:56 PM
Check out the Marlin Trapper .30-30 on Beartooth Bullets website. I refinished an old .30-30 a couple years ago just like Marshal did his (except I didn't cut the barrel) and it turned out very nice.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=258000

CZguy
September 1, 2009, 08:44 PM
If this were my project I would leave the wood stock on the rifle, the finish (Marsheild) that is applies at the factory is actually very durable.

That's almost an understatement about the durability of Mar-shield. That's the most long wearing stuff I've ever run across.

Tengu Joker
September 2, 2009, 01:23 AM
First, thanks for the responses. I plan on using the rifle for plinking and hunting ( hopefully if I can get back into it, haven't hunted anything in years). I want the shorter length to make it more handy.I have heard some good things about the new Hornady ammo and was leaning to the 308 marlin express but I 30-30 would work well too. As far as the stock goes I'll look into the Ramline stock the MadOgre used but I just fell in love with the Black and Gray Laminated wood stock I saw on a Marlin. Also I've never fired a 45-70 before but heard they kicked pretty hard is that true?

CZguy
September 2, 2009, 05:21 AM
Also I've never fired a 45-70 before but heard they kicked pretty hard is that true?

It depends. The ammo can range from very mild to pretty darn hot. The factory recoil pad on my guide gun was next to useless and had to be replaced with a Pachmeyer de-cellerator. That really helped tame the recoil.

kragluver
September 2, 2009, 11:38 AM
There was a thread a while back about .45-70 recoil. I have a .45-70 and I've loaded it hot before. Then I got smart. You're never going to make the .45-70 a "flat shooting" round. I load it with cast bullets to black powder velocities (1300 fps for a 350 gr cast bullet) using SR4759. Its very accurate and has mild recoil. It also has enough power to bring down anything I'll ever hunt out to about 125 yards. IMHO, the only reason to load the .45-70 to its max potential is if you're actually hunting buffalo or large African game. In a lightweight rifle, full snort .45-70 loads will just about dislocate your shoulder. Keep them mild and enjoy shooting!

Tengu Joker
September 3, 2009, 12:21 AM
Just went over to the Marlin sight and saw the 1895sbl and fell in love, it's EXACTLY what I had in my mind, gotta check the balance of the discretionary fund. . .

10pacesmike
September 3, 2009, 09:59 PM
I like everything but the pistol grip stock. I prefer straight stocks on my lever rifles.

bdg146
September 3, 2009, 10:12 PM
So... uninformed question here. What's the purpose of mounting a scope in the scout position? I assume that means further towards the muzzle than a traditional scope mount. Why?

wulfbyte
September 4, 2009, 11:42 AM
From the notes of Jeff Cooper (as found here (http://home.netcom.com/~chingesh/scoutrifle.html#What)):

For those who have not tried it, an explanation of the advantages of the forward telescope is in order. First, and most important, the forward glass does not obscure the landscape. With both eyes open the shooter sees the entire countryside as well as the crosswire printed on his target. For this reason it is important that the magnification of the telescope be no greater than 3X (some hold that 2X is maximum) in order to avoid excessive disparity between the vision of the two eyes. This forward mount, properly used and understood, is the fastest sighting arrangement available to the rifleman...There are those who think that a glass of low power is necessarily less precise for long-range precision work, but we have not found this to be the case in any sort of realistic test.

There are many additional advantages to the forward telescope mount. It is out of the way when the rifle is carried at the balance. It may be mounted as low over the bore as the diameter of the bell permits. It avoids pinching between thumb and bolt handle when the bolt is operated. It permits stripper loading if desired. It greatly facilitates single-loading with eyes on target. It completely eliminates "telescope eye." Without exception, those who have tried the forward mounted glass in a full course of rifle training are unanimous in their conviction of its superiority...

See also here (http://home.netcom.com/~chingesh/scoutconf-glassights.html).

Jim Watson
September 4, 2009, 12:29 PM
Redfield introduced the intermediate eye relief scope mounted on the barrel ahead of the action as a means of getting a scope sight on top ejecting Winchester lever actions. They also made scope mounts for military rifles to clear un-bent bolt handles, wing safeties, and clip loading, a la the old German ZF41. Even had one for the Garand, "Ping!"

They made a mount for the Remington 600 Magnum and advertised it for the purpose of avoiding scope eyebrow with a lightweight .350 Magnum. I believe Jeff Cooper's Scout I was a 600 .308 even though it lacked refinements he came to consider desirable in the type. He called his .350 the "Lion Scout."

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