Well guys it happened to me....neighbor.


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waldonbuddy
September 1, 2009, 06:55 PM
Today I was coming back from town, and seen the mailman approaching so I drove up the drive just a bit and parked to walk down, and get my mail.

Last week my neighbors wife came over at the worst possible moment as we had just buried our pet cat of ten years and was grieving terribly. She asked about a UPS package that she was supposed to have received Monday, well I had a package of magazines that I ordered that came in to me on Monday. I told her as much in a very nice way. Then she said that she called the company and I signed for it.......well, yeah it was what I ordered. I told her again sorry and she just rolled her eyes. I knew she didnt believe me which kinda hurt me that she would think that of me, as I would have no motive at all for taking her package {a scarf, btw}.

So today I was met at the mailbox by her husband. I asked if she had gotten the package thing solved. He said yes. I told him I felt bad about the mix up to which he said "I don't care if you felt bad".

Then he said, "that ____ing shooting has got to stop. I said I didn't know it bothered him, as he mentioned it back a few months ago to which I invited him to come over a shoot with me as I made my own range at the base of a large hill behind my house. I asked him if it bothered him {the first time he mentioned it} all he said {then} was "just don't shoot over here or I'll ____ing shoot back". After thinking about it I just blew it off as maybe he was just trying to be funny.

Today, I reminded him of what he said earlier, and he replied that well I didnt expect you to shoot every damned day. I then told him I didnt shoot everyday, for one I couldn't afford it. I only shoot ONCE a week, and usually its three 15 round mags through my 9mm pistol. So how much time is that maybe 20 minutes a week. Well, he could not be reasoned with, and mentioned calling the county LEO and his lawyer.

For one we live in a rural area, but its close to a school, but there is a hunting club that's property is within the same distance to the school about 1/4 mile. The school is to the left and behind the hill that I have my range, so there is not even a reasonable chance that a stray round would hurt someone. I also know what the county will tell him, which is that there is no laws here prohibiting shooting in my rural area.

Make no mistake, I stood my ground. I asked him when would be a good time for me to shoot or maybe once a month etc. He said he wouldn't even answer that question. I told him that if it bothered him that much I would stop shooting. He said just do what you want to do.

I was really amazed at this guy today. I've lived across the street from him for over 20 years with no problems. He is no kid, and neither am I. I put him at 60-ish old. Oh, and he said I was shooting so much because I wanted him to know as well as the neighborhood that I had guns?????

Anyway, I don't know how much political ties/clout this man has, or how much being near the school would play into legal problem, but I know that we as a gun community all know to well what could happen if he pressed the issue. If nothing else the lead issue alone would put me under so I guess Ill have to stand down.

Its really tough though, as I built my range with steel targets {at a downward angle} that move when you hit them so there is no need to have to walk to the paper to see if you hit the targets. It was nice to be able to walk out in the yard to practice, but no more.

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest as I know Ive read some similar post here so some of you know first hand my problem.

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FlyinBryan
September 1, 2009, 07:03 PM
I told him I felt bad about the mix up to which he said "I don't care if you felt bad".
unfortunately this would cause me not to really care if he didnt like the sound of lawful recreational shooting

to be honest, if he were to come over and mention politely that it un-nerved him, i would politely refrain from shooting when he was home.

but thats not what happened.

if the law allowed, i would continue, if not increase.

in fact, buy a .50.

i work with people that are reasonable and polite, and i truly care about their feelings. but im not sure if your guy fits in with that.

cyclopsshooter
September 1, 2009, 07:05 PM
Eat it, try not to provoke the dumba$$ any more than you have to

FlyinBryan
September 1, 2009, 07:10 PM
lol, i like your sig cyclops.

ive seen more people then i can count get that backwards.

Shung
September 1, 2009, 07:11 PM
what a m&r&n.....!

I hate people that are uneducated and talk like that.. it only motivates me to be more of a pain in the @ss for them...

Now, this involving guns, I'd take legal advice from a lawyer, not a forum.

average_shooter
September 1, 2009, 07:17 PM
If the neighbor threatened to call the county law enforcement on the issue, why not call them first preemptively?

"He who calls first is the victim" and all that, it would set precedent that you are in the right. Then, if he threatens to call law enforcement he can go ahead and they can tell him what they already told you and he can shut up or move. After all, there's plenty of properties available for cheap these days...

RobNDenver
September 1, 2009, 07:17 PM
Waldon,

Is the range on your property? Have the county commissioners passed any ordinances that would forbid shooting in your area? Have they passed a master plan that prohibits shooting or hunting in the zone you are in? The fact that there is a school somewhere in the vicinity of your property is immaterial if shooting is permitted in the area of the county where you live. You are obligated to keep bullets from leaving your property. You are also obligated to not make unreasonable noise at times inconvenient to others . . like don't be running your leaf blower (shooting your pistol) before seven am or after 8 pm . . . If your range backstop is absorbing the lead, then you may need to clean it up before selling the property. . . or if it can leach into groundwater.

Here is a pretty interesting document on managing lead from a firing range. http://www.oshainfo.gatech.edu/lead/stewardship.pdf

Hold your ground. You have every right to shoot on your own property, particularly if you are shooting infrequently.

TheBookGuy
September 1, 2009, 07:18 PM
I can completely relate. I posted on here not too long back about the same kind of thing, except had to do with ricochets. I had done everything right, but have decided to not be active in the area any more. Suck it up and carry on.

Floppy_D
September 1, 2009, 07:22 PM
ive seen more people then i can count get that backwards.
Well done, Bryan. :rolleyes: :D

If at all possible, a peaceable solution is going to serve both parties best. If he won't let that happen, make sure your the first one to find out from the authorities if you are in the right or not. Now's the time to do the research, rather than guess.

MaxV
September 1, 2009, 07:23 PM
Choose your fights (when you can) carefully. If it is worth it to you find out where you stand legally from a lawyer, and proceed from there. Most people are reasonable, when we meet those who are not, the game needs to change....Just give it some careful thought and proceed....

jimmyraythomason
September 1, 2009, 07:25 PM
:what:''After all, there's plenty of properties available for cheap these days...''
__________________
:what:Where are you from average_shooter?

CoRoMo
September 1, 2009, 07:28 PM
...so I guess Ill have to stand down.

Nonsense. It might take up some of your time, but you ought to contact the county governing bodies, law enforcement, etc. and ask all the questions you need. You could even talk to a lawyer about it, and you're done. My guess is that you'll find out that you are in the right, up to your ears.

It'd be a total shame to have to live under the thumb of a guy like that.

deadin
September 1, 2009, 07:31 PM
The school is to the left and behind the hill that I have my range,

This makes it sound like the school is downrange. If so, you might have a problem unless you have a berm that would absolutely guarantee nothing could get over it even by accident (including ricochets).
I like the idea of calling the county first and finding out if the neighbor has a leg to stand on.

jcwit
September 1, 2009, 07:33 PM
I live in a small town and we just went to daylight savings time which now allows me to listen to LOUD mowers every night of the week, some nights as late as 10 PM. Believe me if it was legal for me to have a range, and legal for me to shoot I would now be shooting EVERY NITE of the week.

You say you stood your ground, How so? Sounds to me as if you back peddled very quickly. Standing your ground would mean you'd still be shooting. You state you have essentially closed you're range with no one telling you to. Mayhaps I'm not High Road enough but believe me I would never be pushed around by a swearing piece of low life human excrement you describe.

average_shooter
September 1, 2009, 08:13 PM
:what: Where are you from average_shooter?

lol. Well, I was watching TV late one night recently and there was an infomercial advertising local ("bank owned") properties in the Twin Cities Metro area, some starting as low as $500. The average home price in Detroit is something like $7,500 from articles I've read recently.

In other words, if the shooting by the OP was so bothersome to the neighbor, said neighbor could move someplace else for cheap. Granted he'd still probably have to listen to constant gunfire...

waldonbuddy
September 1, 2009, 08:14 PM
Thanks for the replies guys.

I have contacted the county LEO's about a year ago on this issue and they said that where I live I can shoot there is nothing anyone can do about it.

As for the school its 1/4 mile away and behind a huge hill so that even if I shot directly in the direction of the school all I would hit is the hill. However, said hill is on east whereas my range is west with a hill behind it....

I do feel that he had a right to enjoy his property as much as I do mine, but they way he approached me about it, then threatened me with the lawyer, LEO then that is where he showed his true self, and he was out of line.

I don't know if maybe he might be a bully of sorts, and has never had anyone to bow up to him like I did today {he was a supervisor for many years and just has retired}. I also asked him why it didn't bother him about all of the kids with the 4 wheelers without mufflers running wide open up and down the street, he said no.

Anyway, I just don't want to go through the hassle of a law suit, etc. Which is why I feel Ive got to stand down. Hell, he's had quadruple heart bypass surgery last year so the problem may solve itself as well as ammo for him in a lawsuit. Problem with law suits is that you dont know how they will turn out. Many a man has ended up in prison, or loosing everything in a bad legal battle thinking he was right.........

I just really wanted to vent a little in a place where I have a little support for which I thank you all.

cassandrasdaddy
September 1, 2009, 08:16 PM
he might just be having a bad day/week. see what happens. my one neighbor and i had trouble bad at first. we get along great now

DMK
September 1, 2009, 08:21 PM
If it's legal to shoot where you are, then don't sweat it. Your neighbor sounds like an jerk and nothing you do will change that.

I have a neighbor a bit down the block that calls the cops every time I shoot. They come over, check to see I'm shooting in a safe direction, they tell me I'm not breaking the law, and I tell them don't blame them for checking on me, they leave and I go back to shooting. they seem a lot more annoyed at my neighbor than anything. Apparently she's one of those people that call the cops a couple times a month to come fix things that annoy her.

That said, I try not to shoot more than once a month. Mainly I don't want to bug the rest of my neighbors or the cops that keep getting called.

longdayjake
September 1, 2009, 08:29 PM
I would keep shooting and if he says anything you could just say, "I dont care if you feel bad." He said so himself that he didn't care about your feelings, which is an invite for you to do the same toward him. Don't ever let anyone tell you what you should or shouldn't do on your own property. If he doesn't want to answer your questions then just shoot when you want. Definately make him call his lawyer as it will cost him a bunch of money and he will get nowhere with it.

TimM
September 1, 2009, 08:30 PM
Call a lawyer and have local LEO come out and take a look to see where you stand. DO NOT give in to Bullies!

Tim the student
September 1, 2009, 08:31 PM
Last week my neighbors wife came over at the worst possible moment as we had just buried our pet cat of ten years and was grieving terribly

Sorry about your cat. We just lost ours too - it sucks.

I would call the Sherrif's and get it in writing that you can shoot there. Then, I would shoot as normal, and if he doesn't like it (assuming you are shooting at "normal" hours) I would show him the letter from the Sherrifs office when he comes to complain, and ask what he would like you to do to make him happy. If its not much, like not on a certain day, I would do it in the interest of non-pissy neighbors. If any shooting is unacceptable to him, then I would refer back to his statement about not caring if he feels bad, go load some mags up, and invite your buddies for a BBQ and shooting competition.

John Parker
September 1, 2009, 08:34 PM
ive seen more people then i can count get that backwards.


Oh the irony.

jcwit
September 1, 2009, 08:36 PM
I'll side Tim the student.

FAS1
September 1, 2009, 08:43 PM
Sounds like your neighbor has gone thru some changes recently and is probably a little grumpy. Since you said you have been neighbors for many years without any real problems, I think you should show him your true colors and be the better man. Ask to sit down and discuss what would make everyone happy. Most things require some kind of compromise to keep the peace with everyone. If he can't be reasoned with and he thinks he doesn't need to compromise, then at least you know you tried and then just continue to do what makes you happy and don't feel bad for him. His problem, not yours at that point. Good luck and hope you work things out.

ThrottleJockey72
September 1, 2009, 08:54 PM
Yup, what they said. Who cares what this guy says. Even if you shouldn't shoot there and he does call the police, the most they will do is tell you to stop. At which point you can consult a lawyer and then either stop or continue, whatever he advises. The police aren't ALWAYS right.

MattTheHat
September 1, 2009, 08:57 PM
What FAS1 said. When I first read your post, I was wondering what terrible thing must of just happened at your neighbor's house. That, or maybe he's just a jerk. The soulution is Tannerite. Once you get him used to the booming, you should be able to go back to "regular" shooting without any notice.

-Matt

DHJenkins
September 1, 2009, 09:04 PM
Unless the old fart is paying part of your property taxes or mortage, he can go pound sand. Tell him until he can keep a civil tounge in his head, you aren't going to pay any attention to him. You've already talked to the sheriff, but if he wants to go ahead and call, offer him the phone number. Odds are he doesn't have the resources to bother you with a lawsuit - not with the price of quadruple bypasses these days - but if he brings it up again, just inform him that you've already spoken with your lawyer and if he wants to sue, you'd be happy to counter-sue him right back and take his house.

IMO, you didn't really stand your ground at all, unless you take that phrase to mean "stood there making apologies". Standing your ground means not being conciliatory, not offering explanations and not apologizing for things you have no reason to apologize for.

If you want your neighbor to decide for you what you can do on your own property, that's completely your call - but with the law on your side, why would you? What will you gain? Hell, your neighbor sounds like he won't like you no matter what you do, so you may as well enjoy your land.

It might not be neighborly, but since he has no desire to be, so what? As far as being the "bigger man", that might give you the warm fuzzies for a day or two, but it'll wear off quickly as you're staring out at your land realizing that some nobody has their thumb squarely on top of you - and you let them put it there.

Black Knight
September 1, 2009, 09:13 PM
After you have had the property checked and cleared for shooting, if he sues you, file a counter suit for 10 times the amount for harrassment. If he loses and you win, have your lawyer seize his property for you. Then give him 30 days to vacate or the sheriff is to put him and his stuff on the street. This has to be done with a lawyer but it will be worth it. If necessary you could pay the lawyer by selling the property to the lawyer. I know I sound mean but stand up and fight for your rights. Nobody but you can do that.

B yond
September 1, 2009, 09:25 PM
It amazes me how some people will get themselves all worked up over something like this, but not actually say anything to you about it until they're really mad. He could've approached you in a polite and neighborly fashion and you sound like you would've been accommodating.

Since he couldn't do that, I say have your range cleared with local law enforcement, in writing, and find out what the hours are that you can use it without being a nuisance (legally). Mail a copy of that to your neighbor with a pair of cheap ear plugs. Then buy a reloading setup and shoot as much as you can, as loud as you can. Screw that guy.

doc2rn
September 1, 2009, 09:26 PM
I have a simple solution, buy a can/silencer/suppressor, and shoot all you want. You might even solve the problem with just switching to a .22lr. I know I will be doing just that myself to keep the peace with a military reservist who lives 2 doors down. You might even consider some of the ways to suppress sound from your weapons like TP rolls and baby bottle nipples.

FlyinBryan
September 1, 2009, 10:24 PM
well, after his remark about not caring that you felt bad about the mail issue i would do the following.

write him a letter that you have ordered high tech silencers for all the guns you shoot, and that they will be arriving in 3 days. tell him that you apologize for any inconvenience that you may have caused, and that you will not shoot again until they have been installed and tested.

3 days after sending the first letter, send him a second one with little foam earplugs enclosed, and a short letter that says,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

"thank you, and again, my apoligies for not thinking about you earlier."

edSky
September 1, 2009, 10:34 PM
waldonbuddy, you just said something important. He just had a triple-bypass. I have heard that following major heart surgery people tend to become irritable and angry. Somehow it changes a lot of peoples lives. Bill Clinton's short temper in recent years has been attributed to his heart surgery (only well known example I can think of).

There's a good chance that this guy has experienced a lot of pain and discomfort and other baggage resulting from his bypass and recovery. It doesn't make your issue with him go away though. Good luck, and it sounds like you did your best on-the-spot to smooth things over.

cchris
September 1, 2009, 11:21 PM
No one's mentioned buying a .22 pistol with a silencer on it? Might be expensive, but being able to shoot without bothering anyone seems better than not being able to shoot at all.

Or maybe buy a ton of carpet and just wrap it around his house.

jaholder1971
September 1, 2009, 11:32 PM
Me? I prefer to out ********* an *********.

20 rounds of .338 Win Mag with a muzzle brake daily, different times every day.

Then I think I'd finally pick up that BP cannon from Dixie Gun Works. A blank salute to Old Glory every morning at 0630 would work nicely and another at sundown.

deadin
September 1, 2009, 11:43 PM
No one's mentioned buying a .22 pistol with a silencer on it?

I always love these "solutions". All of us don't have the option to buy/use a silencer.:(
(It's almost as good as the universal "solution" of "just move. Obviously we're all in a position to give up our jobs, friends, family, etc and start over somewhere else.:rolleyes:)

Bruno2
September 1, 2009, 11:54 PM
My business partner and I just purchased some property in a rural area with some very nice houses around it . Everybody that lives there is at least 1000 ft away from each other . Some of the older houses and trailers have a lot junk and old cars around them . The property had everything that we needed as far as out bldgs and shop bldgs go . It is legal to shoot here where we are and we have fashioned a burm and a small range out of it . The older gentleman that we bought the property from(who said "I hate guns") was an accountant and he used to call the LEO out every dove season to see if he could force the hunters around him to stop hunting . The cops said we cant stop them there is nothing wrong with what they are doing . I was so glad to relieve him of the property that he was wasting by not shooting or hunting on it . I told my dad when I bought it that I was going to build my own little private range on it . He told me "you cant do that until you ask the neighbors about it " . It is legal to shoot out here and I am not asking anybody that doesnt pay for the place anything . We have not had an issue with neighbors and I wouldnt care if we did. I bought this place to shoot and I am going to shoot on it .:D

huntsman
September 1, 2009, 11:57 PM
If I had to choose between pleasing a neighbor and keeping my (SD) skills sharp Id choose the latter.

If I had to choose between exercising my constitutional and legal rights on my property and allowing a bully to intimidate me Id choose the former.

zxcvbob
September 2, 2009, 12:14 AM
Me? I prefer to out ********* an *********.

20 rounds of .338 Win Mag with a muzzle brake daily, different times every day.

Then I think I'd finally pick up that BP cannon from Dixie Gun Works. A blank salute to Old Glory every morning at 0630 would work nicely and another at sundown.

Or a bugle. (not a trumpet, a real bugle) :evil: Of course, they require a lot of practice.

panoz77
September 2, 2009, 12:24 AM
Wow, that is an odd story, if your local allows you are perfectly within your rights to shoot, you sound like the distance to the school is greater than 1000 ft (which is the usual distance for the "no gun zone" or as I like to call it the "poor defenseless bastage zone". I'd also make sure you have an appropriate backstop and there are also usually local codes to in regard to proximity to roads. I'd suggest to your neighbor that maybe a move might be in order for him, sheesh grump old men.

hso
September 2, 2009, 12:26 AM
If nothing else the lead issue alone would put me under so I guess Ill have to stand down.


Don't make assumptions like that.

If you want to know, contact your state environmental department, but odds are that as a private citizen you are not regulated.

Makotoseven
September 2, 2009, 12:34 AM
i would make it very clear that if he had a problem and brought it to me like an adult i'd totally reason with him. then i'd tell him that if he wanted to act like a child i'd just spend a couple hundred bucks on ammo just to do some good old fashioned endurance testing.

"deputy, i'm just trying to make sure all of my guns are sighted in properly and good for a few hundred rounds a piece"

DHJenkins
September 2, 2009, 12:52 AM
I have heard that following major heart surgery people tend to become irritable and angry. Somehow it changes a lot of peoples lives.

My uncle had the big quad-job 2 years ago. If anything, he got more pleasant and laid back (and he was a nice guy to begin with).

What this boils down to is a grouchy old man trying to tell someone else what they can or can't do on their own land. Why he's grouchy is irrelevant. Ask any cook - you put egg shells in the trash; you don't walk on them.

Dravur
September 2, 2009, 01:53 AM
You could always take up the drums....

HEck, its your property, shoot all you want.

rocky branch
September 2, 2009, 02:08 AM
You have already checked and found you are legal.

You only shoot on occaision.

Piss on this guy.
You owe him nothing-he is going out of his way to be an ass.

Sad, but that's where it it.

I bought a small farm to retire to and shoot at my hearts content.

Neighbors 1/4 mile each side. They don't care.

I do pick respectable times to shoot.

Dr. Fresh
September 2, 2009, 02:09 AM
Unless the old fart is paying part of your property taxes or mortage, he can go pound sand. Tell him until he can keep a civil tounge in his head, you aren't going to pay any attention to him. You've already talked to the sheriff, but if he wants to go ahead and call, offer him the phone number. Odds are he doesn't have the resources to bother you with a lawsuit - not with the price of quadruple bypasses these days - but if he brings it up again, just inform him that you've already spoken with your lawyer and if he wants to sue, you'd be happy to counter-sue him right back and take his house.

IMO, you didn't really stand your ground at all, unless you take that phrase to mean "stood there making apologies". Standing your ground means not being conciliatory, not offering explanations and not apologizing for things you have no reason to apologize for.

If you want your neighbor to decide for you what you can do on your own property, that's completely your call - but with the law on your side, why would you? What will you gain? Hell, your neighbor sounds like he won't like you no matter what you do, so you may as well enjoy your land.

It might not be neighborly, but since he has no desire to be, so what? As far as being the "bigger man", that might give you the warm fuzzies for a day or two, but it'll wear off quickly as you're staring out at your land realizing that some nobody has their thumb squarely on top of you - and you let them put it there.

These are wise words.


You were being polite, he was a total jerk. He can just live with it.

David904
September 2, 2009, 02:14 AM
Speak with an attorney to ascertain where you stand legally. If you are within your rights to do as you are by shooting on your property, you have some latitude in your decisions.

By no means allow this individual to exert his will over you. Period.

If I were you, I'd give the issue a couple of days (and I mean 2 at the most) and then go over and have a talk. Bring a couple of beers or some food. Do something neighborly. Then I would discuss the recent altercation with him. Perhaps he has a nap time that he didn't used to have prior to the surgery and your shooting has disrupted that. That would be an easy fix just by changing your practice time.

I would do my utmost to maintain civility with him. But if he maintains an aggressive and dominating posture, I'd politely tell him to go crap in his hat.

As long as you are obeying the law, you are free to shoot on your property - no matter what a bully has to say about it. It is your home and your property. Use it as you see fit. If he doesn't want to be neighborly, then it isn't your problem. But try talking to him first. He may just be really out of sorts from a major life adjustment.

bang_bang
September 2, 2009, 02:35 AM
Glad my neighbor's sit on their porch and watch me shoot. It's either they don't mind it or they've seen a couple of bulls-eye hits. :neener:

I've always shot guns, but I do respect my neighbors. When their grandchildren are over or whatnot...I refrain from shooting. If they are having picnics...I don't shoot. But I'll never have a neighbor tell me to stop, especially when I AM being considerate of them. But yeah, it's not really right to tell someone what to do on their own land. I don't go throw rocks at them when they're mowing...then shouldn't come nag at me when I'm shooting.

Hell...one of my neighbors calls me and wants me to rid their property of groundhogs...my next-door neighbor wants me to kill every deer I see. I guess I'm lucky. :D

rondog
September 2, 2009, 03:00 AM
Glad my neighbor's sit on their porch and watch me shoot. It's either they don't mind it or they've seen a couple of bulls-eye hits.

I've always shot guns, but I do respect my neighbors. When their grandchildren are over or whatnot...I refrain from shooting. If they are having picnics...I don't shoot. But I'll never have a neighbor tell me to stop, especially when I AM being considerate of them. But yeah, it's not really right to tell someone what to do on their own land. I don't go throw rocks at them when they're mowing...then shouldn't come nag at me when I'm shooting.

Hell...one of my neighbors calls me and wants me to rid their property of groundhogs...my next-door neighbor wants me to kill every deer I see. I guess I'm lucky.

Oh man, sounds like you get some golden opportunities to get them and some of their guests over for a little trigger time, to introduce some newbies to the sport! Especially the kids! I'd love to be able to do that. Not just a range for my own blasting, but a safe place to give others their first chance.

bang_bang
September 2, 2009, 03:07 AM
Especially the kids! I'd love to be able to do that. Not just a range for my own blasting, but a safe place to give others their first chance.

The idea has crossed my mind to invite them over to shoot with their father or something. I think it would be fun, for both dad and son to go kill some paper and Mt. Dew cans.

Most of the time the youngsters are running around, it's a Sunday. I tend not to shoot on that day anyways, unless it's a skunk or opossum.

You're right, I do live in a generous neighborhood. I'm not the only gun-happy person either. :D

MarineOne
September 2, 2009, 03:39 AM
A lot of good suggestions, but I think you should combine them.

Speak with the local sherriff and county commissioners and ensure you're legal. Also speak with an attorney to make sure you're legal. Once you have all your ducks in a row, go have a friendly chat with him and bring a couple of beers along.

If he still wants to be a jerk, you've got your documentation and he can go pound sand.

If he wants to sue you, you've got your documentation and he can go pound sand when you counter-sue him and win.



Kris

ironcode
September 2, 2009, 05:54 AM
There are nuissance laws that you might be breaking - so do consult a lawyer. Where I live, there are local laws that say one can't be causing noise that, at the boundaries of anybody else's property, exceeds a certain amount (in dB). If the complaining party measures at the boundaries of their property higher noise levels caused by you, they can legally force you to stop. (Oh, I wish I could enforce these against leaf-blowers... alas, probably not worth the hassle).

John Parker
September 2, 2009, 07:18 AM
You might even consider some of the ways to suppress sound from your weapons like TP rolls and baby bottle nipples.


This is a real gem.

zminer
September 2, 2009, 09:44 AM
The OP's neighbor sounds like a certain personality type, which a few people mentioned before. The shooting probably annoyed him this whole time, but he's the kind of guy who lets things fester and keeps them inside until he can't stand it anymore, or has an opportunity to make a statement. So, the UPS thing pushed him over the top, and the next time he had a chance, he lashed out, spewing out his angry spittle about lawyers and suing, where the normal response would have been a polite conversation. He's an angry, sad person, who isn't assertive enough to speak up when things bother him. In fact, that's why he's angry - he's angry at himself for not being a stronger person.

So what do you do?

MarineOne summed it up perfectly:

Speak with the local sherriff and county commissioners and ensure you're legal. Also speak with an attorney to make sure you're legal. Once you have all your ducks in a row, go have a friendly chat with him and bring a couple of beers along.

If he still wants to be a jerk, you've got your documentation and he can go pound sand.

If he wants to sue you, you've got your documentation and he can go pound sand when you counter-sue him and win.

The only thing I can think of to add is that you might start a paper trail. If this guy won't take the olive branch you offer, send him copies of all of the legal documents and statements you obtain, and send it registered mail, so you know that he received them. That way, you both know where you stand - he knows it's futile to sue, and you know that he knows it.

Do you have to go back to shooting once this is all over? No. If you don't want to shoot, you don't have to. But, I assume that you like to shoot, seeing as you went to the trouble of building a well-constructed range at your house. So while you shouldn't antagonize this guy (out of the general politeness due to everyone, even self-hating jerk neighbors), don't let this venomous guy keep you from doing something which is not disruptive and which is completely legal.

youngda9
September 2, 2009, 10:06 AM
The ex supervisor is just looking for someone new to supervise. Next time tell him where he can stick it. Don't worry about the crotchety old timer.

22lr-shooter
September 2, 2009, 10:35 AM
Unfortunately there are a lot of people like that. Your only obligations are to make sure you are legal to shoot there, and do it safely. Beyond that you have no obligation to "take a couple of beers and some food for talking to him"...may as well take soap and water and wash his cars for him :rolleyes:

Be polite about the times you shoot and dont worry about him (after checking legalities of course).

We as gun owners have become so scared of "offending" somebody that no longer do laws have to be made against us...we just need a whiny neighbor to make us run and hide.

There is a huge difference in keep the peace with people and simply bowing down to their unreasonable wishes.

I get a kick out of some of the suggestions...."your neighbor does not like shooting?...Well pack up and move and buy thousands of dollars worth of other guns and silencers"...right.

Beelzy
September 2, 2009, 11:49 AM
Sound to me like it'stime for a Black Powder Cannon of considerable Caliber.

Or maybe a Neighborhood Shoot Off.

waldonbuddy
September 2, 2009, 12:46 PM
Thanks for the advise. After telling neighbors wife the second time that I didn't have her package and seeing her literally roll her eye's, I told her that my UPS box was still in the backyard waiting to be burned with some brush in a pile. She said no she didn't want to see it.
It was the same reply when her husband was mentioning which way the bullets might be going in our discussion yesterday, and I invited him to walk ten feet up my drive and he could see my range in at the end of my 500ft property line {targets are florescent orange}, he refused to see.
Yesterday, I didn't write everything he said, pretty much just the highlights. He did mentioned another neighbor where he used to live that shot dogs in the backyard near his house. He said he had to move since the police wouldn't do anything about it. Which now that I think about it he doesn't like guns period, which is the whole issue.
Also, having mentioned this it would probably pay me to go to the LEO's where he used to live and get a copy of the complaints he filed as well as his neighbors name, and talk to him as well {if he is still around}.
Thanks for all of the advice. I don't think anyone with my kind of problem should go over to the neighbor in question with beer, cookies, etc as that could bite you in the ass. Think about it. You go onto his land, you and he talk civil, and have a beer. You walk back home, and in a few minutes the LEO pull up in your yard and charge you with assault. Your neighbor called them just as you left, told the LEO you were came on to his property drunk and threaten him. The LEO do a breath test find out yep, you have in fact been drinking and there you go.
I am heading out to the county LEO to try and get something on paper today......thanks for all of the support/advice

Mp7
September 2, 2009, 12:52 PM
lotsa good advice.

+1 for making everything watertight - and then
try to go over to his place for a friendly beer
and peace offer.

Peace with neighbours is something very valuable.
You just seem to notice, when its not there....:uhoh:

B yond
September 2, 2009, 01:13 PM
I have a new neighbor that thinks he can play the electric guitar. He can't.

He tries to play it (loudly) during daytime hours. Around here the local laws allow you to make almost as much noise as you want during specific daytime hours. Legally there's nothing I can do to stop him.

You know what I'm NOT going to do about it? I'm not going to go over there and be a jerk to him. I'm not going to complain. I'm not going to call the police.

You know what I AM going to do? I'm going to purchase a decent pair of headphones and give them to him, politely asking if he could use them during the (2) hours when my child is supposed to be napping. It'll probably sound better to him than his cheapo amp does anyway.

It's usually better to be constructive. More flies with honey and all that jazz. Too bad your neighbor doesn't think the same way.

mgregg85
September 2, 2009, 01:17 PM
Your neighbor sounds like a real jerk. Probably a bad idea to antagonize him but I know I would start shooting as much as possible, thats just me.

At least you tried to be cool about it, I doubt anything you could have said would have made him happy.

Owen Sparks
September 2, 2009, 01:44 PM
Either shooting on private property is legal or it is not.
Enquirer with your local Sheriff's department.
If shooting IS legal where you live and you have a proper back stop, the ONLY recourse your neighbor has is a noise complaint. This will be really hard to justify in a rural area where people routinely run gas powered lawn mowers and chain saws.

Warhawk83
September 2, 2009, 02:42 PM
Quit tail tucking man, shoot like you have been shooting. Once a week for 20 minutes is NOT unreasonable. I have to listen to teenagers rap music at least that much EVERY day with my house reverberating. Your neighbor is just an ass.

zxcvbob
September 2, 2009, 02:42 PM
Thanks for the advise. After telling neighbors wife the second time that I didn't have her package and seeing her literally roll her eye's, I told her that my UPS box was still in the backyard waiting to be burned with some brush in a pile. She said no she didn't want to see it.
It was the same reply when her husband was mentioning which way the bullets might be going in our discussion yesterday, and I invited him to walk ten feet up my drive and he could see my range in at the end of my 500ft property line {targets are florescent orange}, he refused to see.
Well there you go. The real issue is, they (mostly the wife) are having too much fun blaming you for everything that's wrong with the world. That's why they won't even look at any exculpatory evidence. Make sure all your legal ducks are in a row, and ignore them.

Vibe
September 2, 2009, 02:51 PM
As for the lead issue....Snail Trap.

SharpsDressedMan
September 2, 2009, 03:06 PM
There are good neighbors, and then there are stinkers. I live in an unzoned township in the middle of rural and suburban Ohio. We have no restrictions on shooting, or hunting, as long as we have an adequate backstop, and the "hours" are reasonable (usually daylight hours). I have had some neighbors take difference with my shooting (I like to tell them that I am an olympic class shooter, as I fire up hundreds of rounds once or twice a week, on occasion, with friends over doing the same). It is unfortunate to live next to an ACTIVE shooter, but it is legal here in Ohio to EXERCISE one's right to own guns AND shoot. As several have stated, KNOW your local laws, and if you are indeed permitted to shoot in your backyard, maybe come to some type of self imposed limit to one or two given days, certain hours, etc, that will make you less offensive, or maybe show that YOU are compromising by limiting yourself, and maybe they will figure out that THEY, too, can compromise and tolerate your shooting, or move to a quieter neighborhood. As some others have stated, mowing the lawn is just as annoying, lasts way longer, but people have come to accept that noise. My shooting of 100-200 rounds usually doesn't last more than two hours....it takes me longer to mow my lawn. I had the county sheriff's deputies standing in my backyard one day, as a riff with the neighbor resulted in his wife calling them to "shut me down". I knew the ordinances, and the deputies politely examined my backstop, and then told the complainants that I had every right to shoot, etc. It took two years before we neighbors got back to being polite and sociable again, but they don't mention the shooting anymore. I could not resist going out at 9:00AM on the Saturday after the Friday they had the deputies down, and rattle off some 500 S&W Magnums for effect. The sad part of that whole story is that I used to load ammo for that neighbor, and he used to come over and shoot. They just got a bug up their butts that because they had some "extra" people in their yard for the 4th of July weekend that I should cease and desist to accomodate their outside activities. I had waited for 5-6 hours for them to take a break, so I could go do my thing (which takes place 30 yards behind my house, and a good 70 yards distance from their house, and firing AWAY from the direction of their house.) Just know where you stand, and enjoy the privileges that YOU pay for to live where you do. There are thousands of people that would LOVE to be able to shoot on their own property!

CoRoMo
September 2, 2009, 03:40 PM
Posted by waldonbuddy (the OP)
I do feel that he had a right to enjoy his property...
I only shoot ONCE a week, and usually its three 15 round mags through my 9mm pistol. So how much time is that maybe 20 minutes a week.

In a way, it looks like you are giving him over ten thousand minutes per week to enjoy his place and you are only taking a mere 20 minutes to enjoy yours.

If we were all to give in to people who dislike the way we live, where would we all be?

theotherwaldo
September 2, 2009, 03:58 PM
Never give in when you are in the right.

Time to take up the bagpipes and play!

http://media.nowpublic.net/images//f4/1/f41b27e41a06a10e7a52d9168a114c28.jpg

waldonbuddy
September 2, 2009, 04:51 PM
Well, a quick update. I did go, after my last post this morning I went down to the county LEO's and had a brief meeting with a deputy there.

He said there is NO law's, ordinances, etc, in the area where I live period. He said they get calls like this all of the time, and basically what most everyone here said which is "the guy sounds like a jerk".

I asked about the lead issue, and basically, just as someone here replied, there is no issue with that unless its an indoor range.

Too bad the guy turned out to be a jerk. A good/sad lesson is never to let your neighbor's know your business as I never did get close enough to this guy to give him any private information of any kind. I never suspected this guy to be the jerk that he was and maybe part of that was due to him being at work all day.

Another thing I didn't think about was that I was trained by an FBI agent with a Glock 22 {I still even have my weapons card} for my work, and I think I still have the certificate from when I worked at HS, which might help if this were to come to a head.
Make's me think how lucky in the 20 years I didn't give him anything to use against me {political views, etc}in a possible lawsuit

Oh, one last thing. To "thebookguy" your problem was the one I was referring to as being able to relate. I read your problem a few months ago, and thought "glad I don't have that problem"......lol.

Thanks again, like someone said we don't need to run hide if the law is on our side.

CoRoMo
September 2, 2009, 04:55 PM
Well then... where are you, and how many of us can use your range?!!?:neener:

eatont9999
September 2, 2009, 04:59 PM
If you are doing your shooting at reasonable times in the day, I don't see why he should even care. He sounds like one of those people you can never make happy. Next he'll want you to plant a certain kind of bush in front of your house. I don't know what your laws are, but look them up. Check into that school thing as well. Do what you want on your property as long as it is lawful.

content
September 2, 2009, 06:18 PM
Hello friends and neighbors// I would invite local LEO over to shoot. //

Also if you want to take the high ground. Perhaps put in a shooting stall (plywood between your neighbor and sound of shooting ) so most of the sound goes up and or forward . This will give the jerk less of a leg to stand on and appear like you are sensitive to his wishes.(Not that you should be or that I would be.) ////

If he persists you might suggest that there plenty of places to live where shooting is not allowed and give him some property listings . Or buy him some big band music to play loudly when you are shooting. ;- ).......

Good luck and keep your cool / sounds like you are doing everything correctly

61chalk
September 2, 2009, 06:44 PM
O.K. This is what I would do....You say its legal to shoot..I would invite the sheriff to come out an check out my range.....talk about guns an shooting....The sheriff tells you everything is legal an looks good. THEN you invite him an all his shooting buddies to come out on a Sat. an bring lots of guns an ammo!!!!!! THEN the nieghbors you get along with, you call them Sat. morning an tell them you an some Law enforcement friends are going to be doing some shooting an you just wanted to give them a heads up...BUT you don't call that anti nieghbor......SAT.....let the shooting begin!!!!! I would make it sound like WW3.......thats just the kind of prick I am.

rondog
September 2, 2009, 06:50 PM
OK, you're cool to shoot! Time to buy some more guns, really LOUD ones! I wish I could live in an area like that.

Years ago, we lived in Central New York, out in the country. While I didn't know any of the neighbors, our back yard faced a very dense woodland, backed up by a huge swamp. Once in awhile I'd pop off a few rounds at some targets off in the trees, and instead of complaints, I'd hear people on both sides of me start doing the same thing!

There was a little gunsmith shop in town, and one day I heard him "test firing" a Thompson SMG. I went to see *** was going on, and he said it belonged to the Sheriff's Dept., and they brought it to him once a year for a "tuneup". :D

U.S.SFC_RET
September 2, 2009, 07:00 PM
He ranted and got it off his chest. You listened. Try not to let it bother you. If your personality allows you just go ahead and shoot but don't be self conscious about it. Try calling him ahead of time letting him know you are shooting.
He will understand that you are not inconsiderate even though there are differences.

waldonbuddy
September 2, 2009, 08:09 PM
I did ask the officer about advice on getting a certified range instructor to come and inspect my range, and sign off on it. The officer said that it wasn't possible because of the liabilities, example, if I injure myself, or someone else, then whoever inspected my range and cleared it as safe would be liable.

However, it would seem as though I could get some documentation from someone who is qualified to inspect my range and give their opinion without taking any liability upon themselves........

I also plan on video taping when everyone else shoots in the area {yep, there's more than me out here in the stick's shooting them gun's}, not to try to incriminate anyone, just prove Im not the only one shooting.

DeepSouth
September 2, 2009, 10:23 PM
I fail to see the problem, just do what he said.:D

I asked him when would be a good time for me to shoot or maybe once a month etc. He said he wouldn't even answer that question. I told him that if it bothered him that much I would stop shooting. He said just do what you want to do.

Kindrox
September 3, 2009, 11:20 AM
You have your ducks in a row. Now stop thinking about him. Some people are jerks and you are just best to ignore them. Anything more just powers them up.

Mr. Bojangles
September 4, 2009, 08:49 AM
Where would we be without jerks to keep us on our toes...:cuss:

Sheepdog1968
September 4, 2009, 04:32 PM
Can you legally own and use silencers in your state? Might be helpful. I like the bbq idea of you and that neighbor are close that way. Seems an odd response by him if you have know him for 20 years. How long have you been shooting?

desidog
September 4, 2009, 05:27 PM
I had this problem when i lived in MA, where you can't suppress weapons.

The neighbor was overjoyed when the police showed up in three cars....his excitement evaporated when they opened their trunks and took out their toys. We had a good shoot that day, and he never complained again.

RP88
September 4, 2009, 05:38 PM
your neighbor is a jerk, but he doesn't sound like a jerk with a good legal ground to file a lawsuit on.

I would pay no mind to him. He can't do anything. As long as you are shooting there legally and safely, then there is nothing anyone can do about it, barring a change of law.

fatelk
September 4, 2009, 05:51 PM
Growing up on the dairy, we once had a neighbor call and ask if we could refrain from pumping slurry on the field next to his property on certain days when the realtor was bringing buyers to look at his place.

He asked politely and we were happy to comply. Pumping slurry: liquified cow manure sprayed through a giant sprinkler.:uhoh: I'm sure you can understand his request.:D

I have to agree with the advice to contact local law enforcement: explain the situation to them and make sure you're OK. Then try again to see if your neighbor will be reasonable, offering to make reasonable accommodations to be neighborly.

mljdeckard
September 4, 2009, 05:51 PM
There's a difference between Deckard now and Deckard say, 15 years ago. Deckard 15 years ago would have a shooting party with every friend I know and I would provide all the ammo I could afford. Busting clays until sundown.

Deckard today probably would have done about what you did. I don't know if I would stop shooting completely, but I might do it every once in a while, when it just isn't convenient to go to a public range or out to the wilderness, but I still want to practice. Once every few months. If things cool off, I might ask him if there's a time he knows he's never around, to see if I could shoot during that time.

But I think that his general tone; with the "I don't care if you were hurt" and then unloading on you about the shooting because he had already tossed civility out the door shows that he had been holding it in for a long time, and was too chicken to just confront you about it, he had to wait until his dander was up about something else to give him a chance to vent.

tigeroldlone
September 4, 2009, 05:55 PM
A firend of mine had some new neighbors move in during deer hunting season. After it was over he started shooting again. His ne neighbors started to bug him about it so he broke out his cannon and let them listen to it for a few days.

ArmedBear
September 4, 2009, 06:00 PM
If I know a neighbor has an odd work schedule or something, I'd ask about it, and when he's sleeping, etc. I have no need to bother anyone.

As it stands, I train my dog in the back yard in the suburbs. "Steady to shot" requires a fairly loud blank pistol. I just don't do it after 8 PM, or in the early morning. And I don't do it all the time, of course.

I don't complain when the neighbors listen to music in the backyard, or fire up the Harley, either. I would if it happened at midnight, but otherwise, there's just a certain amount of give-and-take, here.

Apart from the law, it can be good to know that you're not being a jerk -- but you're also enjoying YOUR private property.

My neighbors bitch that I don't mow the lawn often enough, but nobody has complained about the blank pistol.:D

waldonbuddy
September 4, 2009, 06:12 PM
I used to shoot on my grandparents land, but my greedy father sold the land so I have been out of the hobby for years. When I was growing up I shot literally everyday, and became very good with a rifle.
Like any talent it WILL go away as I have found if not used. I started having to qualify with a pistol for a job back in the nineties, and have had to ever since.
Those of you who have to do this know that some states have tightened up on qualifying. No more shooting those extra shots after the whistle, no more shooting a few rounds on your buddy's target to help them pass, etc. If you don't shoot 70, then turn in your equipment and see ya later. {I think this is how agencies get away with age discrimination}
Now I have started coming back to shooting which is my first love before car's, rock music, women, etc.
Ive always been a 80-90 qualifying with a pistol which is why I built a range where I live.

I have, however shot on, and off over the years, but nothing weekly, like now. Once again it could be that now that he is retired he don't have enough to keep him out of trouble. And, I do think that me arguing with him upset him worse since he is used to telling folks what to do with no static from them.

One thing also comes to mind when he mentioned lawsuit is the incident with his previous neighbor {which he let slip during his rant} where he used to live involving firearms {ie said neighbor was shooting near his house}. If he had a problem with another guy then a law suite didn't solve his problem then, or he didn't even file one. So he should know that it won't help him now either.

I thought about buying a suppressor, but I don't even think that would work since I don't think its all about the noise. I think he just don't like guns period. He may be terrified of them, because the impression I got was that there was NO time he would answer that would be a good time for me to shoot. I asked him once a week? Twice a month, once a month, etc. He said he wouldn't answer that question, "just do what you have to do" was all I got.

ArmedBear
September 4, 2009, 06:16 PM
And, I do think that me arguing with him upset him worse since he is used to telling folks what to do with no static from them.

This might be about his own issues. He may not care about guns. He just wants to tell you what to do on your own property, because it makes him feel like a big man or something.

People are not rational creatures, really.

Personally, I'd look for more ways to get his goat, and make him feel small, but in ways that would make him seem like a real ass if he mentioned them. Could be a target-rich environment.

But I'm dysfunctional.:D

(Seriously, I'm a really nice guy, and go out of my way to be considerate, within bounds of reason and sometimes beyond. It takes a lot to "cross the line" with me. Perhaps for that reason, when someone actually does -- and that's VERY rare -- I don't like it. Not one bit.)

TXHORNS
September 4, 2009, 06:51 PM
I had a similar situation. We have a 150 yard range with about 10 neighbors within "disturbance range." One guy came out after we built it and started testing it out, mostly to make sure it was safe but also to politely discuss what times we would shoot and so forth. I keep it between 9-5 when most people are at work, just to be considerate. I invite the polite neighbors to come shoot their guns and mine whenever they hear me out there. That seems to keep them happy.

But a few have been kinda rude as is your case. I checked to make 100% sure I was legal, which I was by a long shot, and politely told them that I was doing everything I could to make my shooting as reasonable as possible and to call the sheriff it bothered them that much. End of story, never heard from them or the sheriff. I'm not worried in the slightest about a lawsuit over noise either.

So if you're legal, tell him to move to France where its quiet and keep on keepin on!

SharpsDressedMan
September 4, 2009, 07:18 PM
Like your situation, my complaining neighbor has more or less given up on the "call the sheriff" routine. I, too, have limited my shooting to certain hours to let one neighbor on 2nd shift sleep later, and cut out a little before dusk to let another put his kids down earlier. I also try to shoot mid day when most are at work, as a friend comes out and we shoot between 1:00PM and about 4:00PM Mon-Fri on whatever day he and I are off together, but still generally once a week. I shoot additionally, sometimes a mag or two before dusk at other times. I also belong to a rifle range, as the backyard is limited, and at other times have employed some legally owned silencers when I REALLY want to be kind to the neighbors, but one doesn't shoot through silencers ALL the time (that would be a lot of wear and tear, etc). Working with neighbors is desireable, but some will test your limits, and try to over assert themselves. As an ex-cop, I have no problem dealing with difficult people, and I know just when to cut them of, push buttons, ignore them, or find common ground. I had one neighbor lady come and give me hell one time when she was at a birthday party for a rentor of hers, on the other side of the adjacent duplex to our house. I was stunned. I didn't react at first, but then walked over to the party, and said to her, very noticeably, " Hey, Florence. I probably wouldn't even be shooting if you had invited me to the party!", to which all the others laughed, and then SHE didn't know what to say.

JWF III
September 4, 2009, 07:58 PM
I have to agree with FlyinBryan (post #2). This guy is a tool.

If I was in that situation, and the neighbor approached me civially and respectfully, I'd do what I could to keep them happy. But with the additude that the neighbor in the OP approached, I'd make it a point to shoot more often.

This kind of reminds me of a problem we had once here...

A local gun shop (now closed) had a 100 yard range from the edge of the parking lot, to the back of the property. A neighbor (several hundred yards away,~500 and at a 90* angle from the range) called the SD several times about the gunfire, and bullets striking the house. He never showed any proof to support his claim. After having enough of the BS, one of the regulars brought a FA Uzi, which he just aquired a blank firing barrel for. So he brought out several hundred rounds of blanks to go with it. As usual the neighbor called the SD. They showed up and looked at what was being shot. They told us not to worry about it, and we'd never have another problem from him.

They went to talk to him (the rest is what the deputies came back and reported to us). He showed them an unfired rifle cartridge as proof the house was getting hit by bullets. They proceeded to put him in handcuffs, and threatened to take him to jail for a false report unless he told them the truth (which he did). They then told him if they ever recieved another call from him, pertaining to gunfire, that he would be going to jail.

We never had another problem out of him again.

Sometimes you just have to be creative, and out-smart the idiots to beat them at their own game.

Wyman

Average Joe
September 4, 2009, 09:39 PM
Just order the witch a new frigging scarf, that is what this is all about!

TheProf
September 4, 2009, 09:58 PM
Ok...here is my advice. What you are experiencing is what psychologists call displaced anger. The guy is mad about other things (not related to your shooting hobby or even you at all). You are just a "safe" target to vent his frustrations. Lay low of the shooting for a while. Win his friendship. Perhaps break the ice by asking for his help. (Make the request easy enough that to refuse it would really make him feel bad.) When you win his friendship, invite his shooting.

Officers'Wife
September 4, 2009, 10:19 PM
all he said {then} was "just don't shoot over here or I'll ____ing shoot back".

Sounds to me like a death threat that proper authority should investigate. At the least it is verbal battery. Those who threaten legal involvement generally require legal involvement.

The Lone Haranguer
September 5, 2009, 09:13 AM
You know what they say about good fences ... (whistle)

zxcvbob
September 5, 2009, 10:32 AM
Just order the witch a new frigging scarf, that is what this is all about! Ok...here is my advice. What you are experiencing is what psychologists call displaced anger. The guy is mad about other things (not related to your shooting hobby or even you at all). You are just a "safe" target to vent his frustrations.I was beginning to think I was the only one who could see that. The neighbor's wife is making his life miserable about the scarf and he's taking it out on Waldonbuddy.

waldonbuddy
September 5, 2009, 06:26 PM
Guys, I really dont think it was the scarf that was the issue, since they figured out THEY had made a mistake on the shipping date.

The scarf was something that I brought up to the husband since I do not want someone to think me a thief especially someone who lives as close to me as they do.

We met at the mail box at mail time for our area. He used going to the mailbox to "ambush" me with his problem. Ill admit I didn't see it coming.

I really think its a gun issue as he in our brief conversations {at the mailbox, as he and his wife have refused the dinner invites over the years} has very liberal views which is why Ive always avoided talking politics with him.

Trouble with his old neighbor, and now I find out from the widow next door {who dont mind my shooting and shoots her own .22 at squirrels} that my neighbor also had a run in with some hunters in what used to be a field behind his house. The story, as it was relayed, was that the hunters{three of them} were shooting doves, and he asked them not to shoot too close to his house. The cursed him and then shot more. I kinda remember him telling me this when I moved in, but its been a long time so I hadnt thought about it until talking with the old widow.

Now I think I see how that story about the hunters in the field really happened. He probably approached them as he did me and pissed them off.

And, that is why I don't think it was about the scarf. The scarf was just a means to an end for him........anyways, Im not trying to beat a dead horse on this forum, and thanks for all of the support/replies/advise.

wrs840
September 5, 2009, 07:22 PM
The neighbor was overjoyed when the police showed up in three cars....his excitement evaporated when they opened their trunks and took out their toys. We had a good shoot that day, and he never complained again.

This is the best idea I've seen on THR in a month. OP: how many LEO buddies do you have? They're good to know in so many ways... this is just one I've never thought of before. :D

Les

Sapper771
September 5, 2009, 07:56 PM
Waldonbuddy,

I am sorry to hear about your situation. I can understand what you are going through though.
I have been kicked off of two ranges over the last year. A group of anti's formed together and persuaded the sheriff to file an order and make us stop shooting. On the last range,which was a private range I had been shooting at for almost three years,The owner drove up and basically told me to pack up and leave, he was shutting the place down. He stated that his neighbors had all turned their backs on him and wouldnt talk to him and he assumed that it was because of the range. He then accused me of being "inconsiderate" for shooting on his range. I later found out that the owner is going senile, and is having temper problems.
I now can not just go shoot when I want to, I have to make an appointment with a friend to use his property to shoot on, and I dont know how long that will last.

I hope your situation pans out better than ours did. Good luck.

Fburgtx
September 5, 2009, 08:06 PM
If I was your buddy, I'd be thinking about:

1) Hog Farm
2) Auto Salvage Yard
3) Low Income Apartments

Officers'Wife
September 6, 2009, 04:23 PM
If I was your buddy, I'd be thinking about:

1) Hog Farm
2) Auto Salvage Yard
3) Low Income Apartments

If you are going to go that route, just have a wind turbine installed. The constant 'shoop shoop' is enough to make a preacher cuss and if the neighbor complains he's anti-environment. As long as the stupidity is public policy might as well take advantage.

They can be built rather cheaply with common PVC pipe and an old DC motor. Little whistling vanes mounted to the hub is optional at your discretion.

waldonbuddy
September 6, 2009, 06:38 PM
Well, I actually thought of building another garage right next to the road. Not that you understand that I would be building said structure to bother my neighbor as that would be illegal. It would just be more convenient to work on my cars closer to the road.

However, an air ratchet could get on someone's nerves as much as I use mine.............

SASS#23149
September 7, 2009, 12:18 AM
don't give in to him,find out what you're righs are 1st,from the city,county,etc.
If you are allowed to shoot,then shoot.It's your property,not his,and he's being a jerk from the sound of it,coming on like a supervisor instead of a neighbor.
Post no tespassing signs if he persists in coming over,and tell him the signs friging mean what they say,so stop bothering me in my legal recreation.!

Micro
September 7, 2009, 12:40 AM
You don't have to worry about police. You have to worry about a judge. Your neighbor can call the police a couple times then he can swear out a warrant against you with the magistrate. He can plead his case to a judge that you are disrupting the peace and quiet he has enjoyed for how long now? I'm not taking sides here. But if you've just started doing something that you haven't been doing in the past, he may have a case. You may not be doing anything that is criminal in nature. But that doesn't mean you might not be liable to him for some damages he thinks he has sustained (loss of peace, quiet and enjoyment of property, loss of property value, etc). Don't take too much comfort in the "it's your property" argument. He'll argue that if it's your property, then keep your noise on your property.


The best advice is to try and compromise with him. Whether you are right or wrong won't save you a penny in time and expenses if he sues you.

Conan1
September 7, 2009, 01:32 AM
I see how your feeling but being an owner of property myself, I would have to continue shooting as you have as long as your keeping within time constraints just to be nice. I myself don't usually shoot after dark. You should be well within the law and I would contact the sheriff and touch base with them to let them know of the issue.

moooose102
September 7, 2009, 08:26 AM
whatever you do, CONTINUE SHOOTING! if you both have lived there for years, and he in just now complaining, that is HIS problem! besides, if you have been shooting for years, in the same spot, in your own back yard, and it is legal, he is out of luck. you have a legal right to do so. and you have an established routine that should help you in a court of law if it ever gets that far. if we back down and quit shooting every time someone doesn't like it, we will have nowhere to shoot at all. in the woods, near my house where i shoot, i have had people on horseback complain that is spooks their horses. i have told them that they had been riding towards me for fifteen minutes to ride up up on me. if their horses were getting spooked, they could have turned around at any point and went in a different direction. i also told them that these are public lands, to be shared by all, for any legal activity that we like. i told them to ride through, that i would wait until they were well out of range so they would be safe. i have had no problem since. if i had backed down, every time they were riding anywhere in the area they would have expected me to pack up and go home anytime they were out and about. in essence, they would have owned the woods. i am not sorry, that ain't happening on my watch! if it bothers him that bad, he can sell his home, and move!

Navy_Guns
September 7, 2009, 03:31 PM
Since everyone else has thrown in their $0.02, mine would be that CONTENT from post #70 has a good idea - a simple sound barrier can be quite inexpensive and unobtrusive and still be very effective. Granted, any gesture on your part, effective or not, may not be well received by your cranky neighbor.

If all else fails, buy some Tannerite!

waldonbuddy
September 7, 2009, 03:57 PM
My question about building a back stop would be how a court of law would perceive it.

It could be that a lawyer would use said structure as an admission of guilt, as in I know Im disturbing my neighbor so I build said structure.

Or, it could also be seen as me trying to do my part as best as I can to accommodate my belligerent neighbor...

I do think a backstop would help as I would direct the sound back into the woods, but again I really don't think the issue is the sound. He doesn't like guns.

Between replies yesterday, my wife ran in the house, and informed me that "neighbor" was cutting his yard with his riding mower. I then got out my 9mm S&W and shot three 15 round mag's of Winchester ammo. Im going to try this every time he cuts his grass, or cuts trees with his chainsaw {documented with video of course}.

I will be waiting for his reaction on this new tactic as he shouldn't be able to hear a 9mm pistol shooting in the opposite direction as him riding his lawn mower. If he start's his griping then, I'll have him, as his verbal attack's will be directed on me, not the sound of my shooting.

zxcvbob
September 7, 2009, 04:19 PM
I think you're expending way too much energy worrying about this guy. Just pretend he doesn't exist (within reason.)

Kangspec
September 7, 2009, 04:38 PM
i could understand the noise that bothers him. he is old.

however, you tried to understand him nicely about it, and he didn't take it.

so, nothing you can do at this point.

enjoy your shooting.

Kimber45acp
September 7, 2009, 08:01 PM
He's a jerk and he knows it. He's being unreasonable and he knows it. He's trying to bully you and he knows it. He acted like more of a jerk when you tried to be reasonable. Some old guys (frequently war veterans) hate guns and gun owners and there's no reasoning with them. They equate gun ownership with the horrors of war. They see guns as the cause. I've wasted far too much time trying to reason with guys like that. They're not worth it. This sounds confrontational (because it is), but the only thing they respect is when people push back. I would shoot twice as much for a short time and then reassess. He doesn't respect you and being overly accommodating seems to make him respect you LESS. Offer once a year for him to come shoot.

shibbykins
September 9, 2009, 01:19 AM
nice tactic with the lawn mower. id love to see him start **** now. i hate neighbors like that.

DHJenkins
September 9, 2009, 10:18 AM
You don't have to worry about police. You have to worry about a judge. Your neighbor can call the police a couple times then he can swear out a warrant against you with the magistrate. He can plead his case to a judge that you are disrupting the peace and quiet he has enjoyed for how long now? I'm not taking sides here. But if you've just started doing something that you haven't been doing in the past, he may have a case. You may not be doing anything that is criminal in nature. But that doesn't mean you might not be liable to him for some damages he thinks he has sustained (loss of peace, quiet and enjoyment of property, loss of property value, etc). Don't take too much comfort in the "it's your property" argument. He'll argue that if it's your property, then keep your noise on your property.


The best advice is to try and compromise with him. Whether you are right or wrong won't save you a penny in time and expenses if he sues you.

Where is this? Down here, at the very least, you'd have to have a prosecutor on board, and private citizens can't "swear out warrants". If the local LEO's are telling you "there's nothing he can do about it" legally, then that's about all she wrote. If he had a legitimate, enforceable beef, then the police would have told both parties about it. Besides, you can't claim 'disturbing the peace' during daylight hours in most areas in the U.S. or construction would never happen.

Did you read the thread at all? You can't compromise with someone who hates your hobby. Besides, you only compromise if your position is weak; those who have the upper hand have no need to.

Steve Marshall
September 9, 2009, 10:51 AM
My situation was a little different. I bought my house because of the land and the barn. Before I tendered an offer, I spoke with the police chief, town clerk and a selectman. All assured me that there was nothing to prevent me from shooting. So for two years I shot on a regular basis. The "neighbor" that did me in is 300+ yards away with a small hill and trees between us. I can't see my neighbor although he may be able to see the top of my house. Eventually, I was visited by my Chief of Police who apologized for the visit as my neighbor had lodged a complaint. He again told me he had no legal issues with my shooting. Next I was visited by a different selectman who wanted me to compromise with my neighbor. Since I'd never had word one with this neighbor I indicated the difficulty of this. Yeah, the guy never once communicated with me. Perhaps I was in his eyes some uber mensch which intimidated him? After a year of closed town meetings, open town meetings, circulated petitions and complaints with various state officials including NH Environmental Protection agency he finally located a State Policeman who'd act as his foil. Now of all the previous efforts mentioned, the only one that I was aware of officially was from the environmental people. I took a phone call and was asked some rather bewildering questions until finally the caller asked how many rounds I shot on my range. When I told him about 6,000 or so per year, he harrumphed, allowed as he was only interested in public ranges, indicated that my neighbor was worried about his water supply and bid me good day. My neighbor's well is about 350 yards from the closest impact area. By and by, I was visited by the State Cop who ordered me to stop shooting. I indicated that this was an unlawful order and that handcuffs were the order of the day. I didn't see him again for several months. He told my neighbor to video tape my shooting activities, which he did with only audio for obvious reasons. Finally, I was invited to the police station to be arrested and booked for...Disorderly Conduct. Tried on 5 counts, convicted on 4 with $1000 fine each suspended on good behavior if I didn't shoot or appear before him for one year.
The moral of the story? Get legal counsel. Had I been represented by an attorney, the likely outcome of my case would have been in my favor. The police I spoke with prior to my court appearance all said it was a BS case and that it would be tossed. Small comfort.

rjewell
September 9, 2009, 10:51 PM
My boss and I shoot in his back yard quite a bit, and there have been times that the old neighbor has called the cops saying that we were "shooting machine guns" cops come and they say that there is nothing they can do, its unincorporated, the funny thing is is that the city line is between his house and the nieghbors house. lol.

-Ry

waldonbuddy
September 10, 2009, 06:31 PM
Steve, were you arrested because you refused the State police that asked you to stop shooting?

Also, was it a jury trial, and did you represent yourself?

It looks to me that your neighbor might have had a friend working for the state to send the state LEO to your home. I wonder if you had just stopped shooting when the state LEO came by, and just called his Sargent, and explained what the other LEO's had said, then maybe they couldn't have pinned a disorderly conduct on you.

SharpsDressedMan
September 10, 2009, 07:00 PM
A police order had to be a LAWFUL order. If the LEO had no reason to believe a crime had occurred, or was in progress, he probably had no LAWFUL pupose for being there. If shooting was legal in that juridiction, it really didn't matter if he was a state cop, countie cop, etc. If he was motivated to be there because of your neighbor, because they were friends, then that cop might be in serious trouble (if any of that can be investigated or proven. Cell phone calls to cops, for instance, can be traced). I think you need an appeal, and a jury. Citizens don't like it much when police over extend their authority, and act outside the scope of the law. He might lose his job.

waldonbuddy
September 10, 2009, 08:08 PM
I also forgot to ask, but how long ago did this happen Steve?

Also, as Sharpsdressman said, why didn't the state LEO arrest you there on the spot for disorderly conduct?

Or, was the disorderly charge made some other time, and if so, what happened?

Steve Marshall
September 10, 2009, 09:12 PM
This happened just about four years ago. The disorderly conduct was the shooting itself. The neighbor had recorded approximately 10 events in the course of several months. They used 5 at my trial as these were the most "egregious". The most shots recorded was 150 or so while the least was about 20. I presume that 20 shot episode was the one in which I was found not guilty but the judge was disinclined to hear anything I had to say nor answer any questions. As I said, get represented by an attorney should you wish to prevail. Interestingly enough, the judge chose to overlook patent perjury by this neighbor. Without going into great detail, the neighbor claimed to fear for his life due to the noise yet when the tapes were played in court the shooting was only slightly louder than traffic going by. Remember, he recorded 300+ yards away with trees and a hill in between. Also my barn is perhaps 100 feet or so further than parallel to his house. Also, another "neighbor" who is at least 600 yards away, claimed his hearing aid used to shut off because the noise level was over 100 decibels. Of course I was blindsided by this testimony as I was not afforded a witness list. But if any of you have ever taken decibel readings , you are certainly aware that an M1A, my loudest firearm, doesn't come close to those sound lrvels at 600 yards. But you can't use logic without facts to back you up. The big problem with my trial was that I didn't know how to frame things legally, just emotionally. That has little bearing in a trial. And an appeal was on the order of $3000 minimum and 11/2 years away.

SharpsDressedMan
September 10, 2009, 10:18 PM
I hate to say it, but you probably would have gotten your $3000 back, and then some. I know how it is to "choke" when you just get sick to your stomach pending a court case, etc. You just want it tobe over. But there are so many things WRONG with your government entities in this case, if all that you say is on record. I don't know what the limitations are, but since the criminal charge still stands, you ought to see about expongement. YOu might just find a judge that is sympathetic (since justice may not be evident in his review of your case). Good luck!

daskro
September 11, 2009, 12:43 AM
Steve Marshall, so can you wait one year without shooting then resume shooting?

Officers'Wife
September 11, 2009, 12:44 AM
Of course I was blindsided by this testimony as I was not afforded a witness list.

If you filed a writ of discovery that alone would be cause for appeal.

waldonbuddy
September 11, 2009, 01:24 PM
Wow, sorry for the way things turned out for you Steve. The judge sounds like an anti for sure.

This is why going to court over anything is a gamble, not about justice at all anymore.

Hell, with me being close to the school all my neighbor would probably have to do is call the local new's station and they would be all over it. Although it would also bring down the hunting club in the area since their land is behind the hill that I shoot into. And, you can even see the school from one of the hunting club's roads that crisscross through the woods.

Steve did the other guy have a lawyer? Thanks for giving me the details of your case since it might let me know what I'm up against.

Griff56
September 11, 2009, 03:24 PM
You did not mention what state you reside in, or if you did I missed it. I do that a lot.
That being said, I think I would check with a lawyer, yeah I don't like them either, but in this day and age they are necessary. One of my lifelong friends is a lawyer, but he is also a shooter so we get along just fine. Unfortunatly, you can seldom win an argument with someone that has closed his/her mind on guns. Sounds like his Mrs has a profound dislike or fear of firearms and has prodded the old man to take action. It also sounds like he is a real wizard.

If you find no restrictions on shooting, I would shoot to satisfy myself and tell him where the highway is.

Steve Marshall
September 11, 2009, 04:30 PM
I paid no fine as it was suspended pending good behavior. In NH, misdemeanor trials are prosecuted by police officers. In this case it was the arresting officer. Presumably I could shoot after the year was up and did so on a limited basis. The neighbor finally had enough sack to call me on the phone. Of course I indicated that the next time I was arrested that I would be represented by an attorney and that if he perjured himself again I would go after him legally. Shortly after, I put the land up for sale. My new neighbor shoots on occasion but so far no complaints.
GET LEGAL REPRESENTATION!!!

DHJenkins
September 11, 2009, 04:53 PM
The San Antonio gun club has multiple trap & skeet stations. Even though they're back aways, do you know which way you point to shoot? Directly at US-281, a 10-lane highway. If you check it out on google earth, it's a little less than 1/2 mile away, and you can see the gun club from the highway.

Granted, it's shotgunning, but distance isn't everything.

waldonbuddy
September 11, 2009, 05:33 PM
I think also the element of surprise if any of you have a problem like mine. Get a video camera a small voice recorder, talk with other neighbors in the area.
Like I mentioned before, I'm now shooting while neighbor cuts the grass, but I film the event so that it won't be easily disputed.

Like everyone else has said "get your ducks in a row". I don't plan to openly shoot until I have enough video evidence of other audio disturbances in the neighborhood, such as other people who shoot {yep, not just me, just not once a week like me}, loud off road bilke's, ATV's, heck even the loud speaker at football games.

I'm not planning to shoot openly {except when he is riding the mower}, until I get more evidence for just-in-case. I just plan to let the man think he has won for now, then when I get all I think I'll need to protect myself legally then I'll start openly shooting again.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg183/mtrain2000/range003.jpg

The whole bag of nuts, is the school issue which is the only way I can see as a weakness to my possible case for neighbor to exploit ...........to repeat for those who don't want to read the whole post again, I shoot into a hill, not over it. The hill has steel 1/4 targets that move and deflect the bullet fragments down into the ground as I have witnessed. The hill is almost directly opposite any human structures, but there again there is no way the bullet is going through the hill........

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