Blackhawk vs Super Blackhawk.


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ljnowell
September 2, 2009, 10:09 PM
Whats the real difference between the two? Maybe I should even ask this a different way, try this: I want a .45LC Single action with adjustable sites that can handle the ruger only loads will a blackhawk be ok? Does it need to be a super blackhawk? I have heard contrasting opinions, but I am sure there are people here that can tell me which one, and why. So, who's the expert?

LJ

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Virginian
September 2, 2009, 10:13 PM
The Blackhawk is what you want. The Super is not available in 45 anyway; only 44 Magnum. The Blackhawk and Super Balckhawk have the same size cylinder frame in any event.

ljnowell
September 2, 2009, 10:33 PM
I thought I saw one in that caliber, just not with the barrel length I wanted. I am looking for at least a 7 1/2" barrel. Blued with wook stocks. Beautiful gun.

9mmepiphany
September 3, 2009, 02:16 AM
the difference between the two is that the Super Blackhawk only comes in .44 Mag and has the dragoon style trigger guard

Virginian
September 3, 2009, 07:12 AM
Actually, the dragoon style trigger guard does not come on all barrel lengths of the Super Blackhawk. The standard Blackhawk in .45 Long Colt comes with the 7-1/2" barrel.
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FASubType?type=Revolver&subtype=Single%20Action

MCgunner
September 3, 2009, 10:00 AM
I thought I saw one in that caliber, just not with the barrel length I wanted. I am looking for at least a 7 1/2" barrel. Blued with wook stocks. Beautiful gun.

I think the Bisley came in 7.5" .45 Colt. Standard blackhawk barrel length ends at 6.5" which to me is plenty. My .357 has a 6.5" barrel, my .45 has the 4 5/8".

nulfisin
September 3, 2009, 12:16 PM
We touched on this in another forum, but that trigger guard matters. If you are going to shoot hot .45 loads, you are going to get noticeable recoil. Either gun can handle it well, but your middle finger may not like it! The dragoon guard gets the nod here.

I shoot .44 mags in the standard Blackhawk. It can be done safely, accurately, and relatively comfortably, but the trigger guard on the Super Blackhawk would make it easier.:cool:

Virginian
September 3, 2009, 12:30 PM
That dragoon trigger guard is death on my finger. I like the longer barrels, I can shoot my Vaqueros comfortably with anything, but I had to get rid of the Super because of that darned trigger guard.

1KPerDay
September 3, 2009, 01:52 PM
I shoot .44 mags in the standard Blackhawk. It can be done safely, accurately, and relatively comfortably, but the trigger guard on the Super Blackhawk would make it easier
Explain why the pointy back edge of the dragoon guard makes shooting hot loads better. I would imagine the opposite to be the case. But I haven't done it. I had a 44 mag Vaquero with the round guard and it wasn't intrusive at all. But I didn't shoot HOT loads.

kanook
September 3, 2009, 05:22 PM
the difference between the two is that the Super Blackhawk only comes in .44 Mag and has the dragoon style trigger guard
the 44 is NOT the only super blackhawk. it IS made in 45, and NOT all super blackhawks come with a squared triggergaurd but most come with the unfluted cylinder.

MCgunner
September 3, 2009, 05:40 PM
Virginian's complaints are what I've heard from SBH shooters. I've not lived with or put many rounds down range on a SBH with dragoon trigger guard to say. I know my Blackhawks are fine. Hot loads in the .45 buck pretty good and my middle finger don't notice. Now, we can talk SP101s if ya want. :D

Virginian
September 3, 2009, 07:30 PM
The 45 is not a Super Blackhawk, it is a reguler Blackhawk. The man said he wants a 7-1/2" barrel, and the Super with the 7-1/2" comes with the dragoon grip frame. Just click on the link and look.
I would get a Blackhawk or a Vaquero (not New Vaquero) in 45 and have fun if I wanted to be able to shoot hot loads and everything else in 45. I shoot ground pounders out of my 44 Vaqueros with no problemo.

BlkHawk73
September 3, 2009, 08:24 PM
ok, a few mistakes above so here goes... Not all Super Blackhawks are in .44 magnum. There have been SBH Hunters produced in .41 magnum and in 45LC. There are also BH's in 45LC with 7 1/2" bbls.
The BH's, SBH's and Bisleys all use the same cylinder frame and cylinders (some are unfluted for appearances)

For heavier loads, many prefer the Bisley grip configuration. As for buying with the purpsoe of using "Ruger only" loads, why not simply buy a model in a more powerful chambering to begin with rather than overload lesser cartridge brass?

ljnowell
September 3, 2009, 08:53 PM
ok, a few mistakes above so here goes... Not all Super Blackhawks are in .44 magnum. There have been SBH Hunters produced in .41 magnum and in 45LC. There are also BH's in 45LC with 7 1/2" bbls.
The BH's, SBH's and Bisleys all use the same cylinder frame and cylinders (some are unfluted for appearances)

For heavier loads, many prefer the Bisley grip configuration. As for buying with the purpsoe of using "Ruger only" loads, why not simply buy a model in a more powerful chambering to begin with rather than overload lesser cartridge brass?


Thanks for the information. I have shot a blackhawk in 45lc, and it was an enjoyable experience, but not the bisley.

The purpose for shooting the ruger only loads is #1 for fun. #2 I would like a potent hunting load for whitetail in IL. We get some good size dear and I want to make sure that I am good to go. Before this gets too far off though, I want to add that I wholeheartedly think that a 45LC off the shelf hunting load is more than enough for whitetail, I just like to roll my own. And i like big sonic booms.

As for getting a larger caliber, I like my .45s, I really dont want a .44mag, and the .45LC chambered blackhawk is a very economical choice in hunting gun. I cant afford an X-frame S&W, and I dont want a taurus Raging bull or the like.

Beagle-zebub
September 3, 2009, 08:55 PM
As for buying with the purpsoe of using "Ruger only" loads, why not simply buy a model in a more powerful chambering to begin with rather than overload lesser cartridge brass?

Ruger doesn't sell a single-action in a cartridge more powerful than Ruger-only .45 Colt with ultra-heavy bullets, and the notion that .44 magnum brass is stronger than that of .45 Colt is supposedly a misconception. (Someone more qualified than I will chime in on this, hopefully. rcmodel? any of the Jims?)

BlkHawk73
September 3, 2009, 09:13 PM
Didn't say the more powerful chambering had to be in a Ruger. As much as I love Rugers (40 or so here) if I had such desire and need for a big boomer, I'd be looking at Freedom Arms WAY before a x-frame or Raging Bull.

I love the Bisleys - 13 or so attest to that. they give a bit more grip length with a geometry which allows more natural roll under recoil. Not for everyone but worth a try.

You are correct that there's plenty of good capable hunting loads available off the shelf for the 45LC. More important than big and heavy is shot placement. Make sure the load you will use is one that you can shoot well.

ljnowell
September 3, 2009, 10:38 PM
Didn't say the more powerful chambering had to be in a Ruger. As much as I love Rugers (40 or so here) if I had such desire and need for a big boomer, I'd be looking at Freedom Arms WAY before a x-frame or Raging Bull.

I love the Bisleys - 13 or so attest to that. they give a bit more grip length with a geometry which allows more natural roll under recoil. Not for everyone but worth a try.

You are correct that there's plenty of good capable hunting loads available off the shelf for the 45LC. More important than big and heavy is shot placement. Make sure the load you will use is one that you can shoot well.
__________________

Are the freedom arms priced in the range of rugers? I have yet to find one in person locally at a gun shop. They can take the ruger level of beating?

I am totally open on the subject, i just have those few criteria. I'm a handloading addict so I like to play with loads, and really want one to make some big boom and flash, but also be a decent hunting pistol(i dont necesarily want to use a "ruger only" load for hunting either).

9mmepiphany
September 3, 2009, 10:46 PM
They can take the ruger level of beating?

I am totally open on the subject, i just have those few criteria. I'm a handloading addict so I like to play with loads, and really want one to make some big boom and flash, but also be a decent hunting pistol(i dont necesarily want to use a "ruger only" load for hunting either).

the ruger only load warning came before the introduction of the freedom arms pistols...either that or they just figured that anyone buying a freedom arms would know that they are built stronger than any ruger.

not only is the freedom arms stronger, but they exhibit superior workmanship...possibly the best production pistol made...which make them more accurate too

PattonTime
September 4, 2009, 01:15 AM
I am not sure if they still chamber it standard, but I have one of the Magnum Research
BFR revolvers in 45 Colt Plus power.
Now before anyone tells me that there is no such Saami cartridge listed , I never said there was, only that I have a BFR so called on the Barrel.
It is one heck of a gun in my opinion and since buying it and my Ruger Blackhawk Stainless steel in 4 5/8 barrel I have sold my Freedom Arms 83 and Model 97.
While they were both works of art I found them to be pains in the butt as far as to shoot.
I had much trouble with both as far as shooting my handloads and I am a long time reloader. The problem is their incredibly tight and to my mind overly so tolerences.
Even with factory after a few cylinders I would have to clean to continue shooting
and trying to shoot lead in the 45 Colt, forget about it.
P.S. I always use Lee Factory Crimp dies too.
Wonderful guns but not for me.

ljnowell
September 4, 2009, 10:13 AM
I am starting to understand why everyone talks great of freedom arms. However, I must say, I cant afford that. I can buy two rugers for that price, not that I could afford that either. I'm just a poor mechanic. :D

I guess I will be going with the Ruger Blackhawk .45 w/ 7.5" barrel. I just have to decide on which one. I am personally leaning toward a blued model, but i dont see any with wood grips, so I may have to buy the grips and change them. The stainless is pretty though.

BMF500
September 4, 2009, 10:45 AM
Magnum Research will build you a custom BFR in darned near any cartridge you want. There a more than a few floating around that are of a non-catalogue chambering.

nulfisin
September 4, 2009, 11:23 AM
I live in IL as well. Admittedly, I hunt with a bow. A suggestion: go with a .44 magnum or more. A .45 colt may get the job done, but it may not. And you'll really need to juice up the load, if for no other reason than to generate the legally necessary energy. No worries on that score with the .44

ljnowell
September 4, 2009, 02:22 PM
I live in IL as well. Admittedly, I hunt with a bow. A suggestion: go with a .44 magnum or more. A .45 colt may get the job done, but it may not. And you'll really need to juice up the load, if for no other reason than to generate the legally necessary energy. No worries on that score with the .44

Thats the reason that I am going with the .45. I have seen load data that surpasses that of a .44 magnum. I have hunted whitetail for years, and to be honest, at the range I would be shooting, if they would let me I could take one with my .45acp.

paochow
September 4, 2009, 05:23 PM
If you are set on the .45LC, I'd try to see if you can find a .45LC Super Black Hawk Hunter. It was a Lipsey's distributor model and came with scope rings and the integral scope base. I have Hunters in .22 and .44 and love them.

http://gunblast.com/Ruger-Hunters.htm

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/paochow/Firearms/f7ff2251.jpg

BlkHawk73
September 4, 2009, 06:35 PM
Yes, the FA's cost more but you definetly get more. Is it worth the cost? To some yes, to others (those have never experienced one) they're not worth the cost. Ruger's are fantastic firearms. I'm a big Ruger fan but I gotta say for the best, it's FA. I guess if quantity is more important than quality, go Ruger. Kinda the difference between a Chevy and Mercedes.

ljnowell
September 4, 2009, 08:40 PM
Yes, the FA's cost more but you definetly get more. Is it worth the cost? To some yes, to others (those have never experienced one) they're not worth the cost. Ruger's are fantastic firearms. I'm a big Ruger fan but I gotta say for the best, it's FA. I guess if quantity is more important than quality, go Ruger. Kinda the difference between a Chevy and Mercedes.

I hear that, I do appreciate a fine quality firearm, especially one that is a cut above. In this case though, I am going to be on a pretty well defined budget. I really like the caliber, and thats about as much gun as I can afford.

nulfisin
September 5, 2009, 12:19 PM
I ASSUMED the dragoon guard would be better. You know what they say about assuming. What I can tell you pretty clearly is that the trigger guard on the non-Super Blackhawk is going to pummel your finger with hot loads. You can take good steps to minimize this, and I have, but I'm sorry to say that the Blackhawk does not appear to be an ideal .44 mag revolver.

BlkHawk73
September 5, 2009, 02:06 PM
What I can tell you pretty clearly is that the trigger guard on the non-Super Blackhawk is going to pummel your finger with hot loads.

Haven't tried the Bisley grip frame yet have ya? Member, it's not the model specifically but the grip frame. Can easily have a hard recoiling BH and have it be comfortable.

nulfisin
September 5, 2009, 10:44 PM
Yes, I think that would do the trick. As some of us discussed on another thread, it is very simple to switch out the grips. However, the only nice set of Bisley grips I saw were close to $200. That's not an outrageous sum, but it's over fifty percent of what I paid for the whole gun. I may break down and get them. Wifey is getting close to an arms embargo on the credit card, so it may have to wait a month or two.:)

BlkHawk73
September 6, 2009, 10:06 AM
nulfisin, there's a few good grip makers for these. If you're looking, drop a PM and I'll point you in a few directions.

ljnowell
September 7, 2009, 01:04 PM
Thanks to all that contributed to this thread. I am going out this week looking for what I want. I have decided that a bisley or blackhawk will work for me, so whichever I can find in the barrel/caliber configuration will decide which one I buy.

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