Open carry concerns.


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Dambugg
September 4, 2009, 05:03 PM
I have seen quite a few people open carrying handguns as of late and am a little concerned.

first off let me say that in a sane world we would be able to open carry to show we are ready to defend ourselves and those we love without it being questioned by those who are uninformed. Unfortuantely we do not live in a sane world.

My cause for concern regarding open carry is this. When those that ride the fence on the 2nd ammendment see people open carrying they, (because of the bad rap guns get on in the media) are put off and get nervous. There have been protestors at town hall meetings open carrying and they aren't portrayed by the media in a positive light. I am concerned because the visibilty of people open carrying could lead to laws against it.

So I guess what I am asking in conclusion is how to get those that ride the fence to understand the importance of open or conceal carry? While not being portrayed as black hellicopter weirdos.

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General Geoff
September 4, 2009, 05:25 PM
My cause for concern regarding open carry is this. When those that ride the fence on the 2nd ammendment see people open carrying they, (because of the bad rap guns get on in the media) are put off and get nervous.

This is conjecture. My practice of open carry has started many dialogs with folks who were "on the fence," and due to the opportunity afforded to me to talk to them because of my conspicuous fashion of carry, I was able to show them the light; and they realize that carrying a gun is a *good* thing. So in my experience, open carry has the opposite net effect about which you are concerned.

mljdeckard
September 4, 2009, 05:37 PM
We talk about this all the time. It usually ends in name-calling.

I pretty much agree with you. Yes, it's legal, and we should exercise our rights, and we should work to reverse people's perception of guns and gun owners, so that they don't automatically think that someone carrying a gun is a criminal.

HOWEVER, this doesn't mean that there's no such thing as a time and place where it's just a bad idea. I live in Utah, where we have had very positive changes in the last several years. The momentum is very much on our side for gun rights. I WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY. I don't want to give antis who were too lazy to show up a reason to care the NEXT time they have a reason to. If I'm out in the rural desert areas burning gas and bullets, and I stop in one of the smaller towns to get gas, yes, there will be a .45 on my hip.

BUT, if I'm walking around 400 S. State Street in Salt Lake City, between all the hippie U of U students at the coffee shops, with a .45 on my hip, some will look, most will assume that someone carrying like that must be a cop, but one white dude with dreadlocks and a Marley t-shirt is going to say; "Hey bro, why you gotta pack heat around here?!"

I could reply that it's not illegal and none of his damn business, or that I'm afraid his dealer won't be as civil with me as he is with him, or something similarly snarky, and the next time the free underground newspapers they give away in front of the coffee shops run exposes (pronounced ex-pose-ays) about Utah's gun culture, and how there will be a protest at Liberty Park next Saturday after the drum circle meeting, he will say to himself, "Wow, there's something I can do about these gun nuts that won't cost anything. I think I'll go." So he goes. And some of SLC's democratic (yeah, I said it,) reps show up, and/or the mayor, and the next time Utah wants to drop another silly, useless gun law, (which we have been doing a LOT lately,) they have a reason to come to the legislative session when they didn't before. Not good. I don't want to kick any hives full of otherwise lazy bees. The '94 AWB went through because WE were not alert, organized, and mobilized like we are now. We learned our lesson. I don't want them to learn theirs. Ignorance is bliss, and I want BIG smiles on their faces.

Having said this, next Feb, when open carry becomes legal in our national parks, me and some of my friends have already set a date for an open carry picnic.

Gryffydd
September 4, 2009, 05:39 PM
I would strongly suggest doing a search for Open Carry on this forum. You will find THOUSANDS of posts mirroring yours and as many dissenting. This is one of those you just have to agree to disagree subjects...

Dambugg
September 4, 2009, 07:06 PM
General Geoff, I appreciate your infomation but what I am saying is not conjecture as I have educated people on the merits of open carry after they were put off by the presence of someone open carrying.
I didn't mean to open a can of worms here. If it's a volatile subject than by all means lock the thread down and I apologize for bringing it up.

Sam1911
September 4, 2009, 07:43 PM
There is no concern that it's a "volatile" issue that should be stifled.

This level of debate is the very core of what THR is about. Really thoughtful, educated, respectful debate about a somewhat divisive issue within the gun "community."

Our ability to reason through some of these very meaty issues and to achieve clarity and understanding -- if not often consensus -- is what makes THR such a unique place.

Having said that, the topic of Open Carry has indeed been the subject of at least four long multi-page threads in the last few months. We've discussed the folks carrying at Presidential functions, the idea of open vs. concealed carry in general, and even "semi-open" or "casual-concealed" or "sloppy" concealed carry somewhere in between.

Your insights and input may be very valuable to all of us, but it would behoove you to go ahead and do a little reading of what has been posted here before, both in defense of and in opposition to whatever your personal feelings on the matter may be. You will find eloquent and convincing statements on both sides of the aisle.

You may, in fact, change your own mind three or four times as you read -- the debates have been that good.

Welcome to the forum, you'll probably like it here.

-Sam

mljdeckard
September 4, 2009, 07:46 PM
There was a thread in here a week or so ago where a guy had tried to rally participants for an open-carry protest on the Vegas Strip, where open carry was legal, but local police would likely seek to stop it anyway, ans possibly cite people for disturbing the peace. Months after the fact (this is the recent part) he complained that no one showed up to support him. We told him not to get mad at us, it was an iffy idea to begin with. He said we were un-American cowardly, statist, liberal sheeple and not good enough to call ourselves gun owners. We told him (before the thread was locked) that if he was too good for us, perhaps he should post somewhere else.

zxcvbob
September 4, 2009, 07:52 PM
Having said this, next Feb, when open carry becomes legal in our national parks, me and some of my friends have already set a date for an open carry picnic.
I think it's only *concealed carry" that is legal in the NP's. (having said that, if I'm ever hiking in Big Bend or Denali or parts of Glacier N.P., I will be have a substantial sidearm and don't care whether it's legal or not.)

mljdeckard
September 4, 2009, 07:56 PM
What happenes in February, national parks will use the same laws as the state in which they lie. If open carry is legal in that state (in Utah it is legal) then it is legal in the park.

On THR, We ALWAYS care whether it's legal or not. We follow the law, PERIOD.

Sam1911
September 4, 2009, 07:58 PM
I think it's only *concealed carry" that is legal in the NP's. (having said that, if I'm ever hiking in Big Bend or Denali or parts of Glacier N.P., I will be have a substantial sidearm and don't care whether it's legal or not.)

We just had a thread on this exact question, too.

In the original Park Service rules change from last April (I think) the rules were going to be changed to allow only "concealed" carry.

The current law (part of the Credit Card Reform Act of 2009) removes ALL prohibitions against firearms beyond those applicable to the state in which the park is located. So, yes, open carry will be legal -- if it is legal in your state otherwise.

-Sam

Nicodemus38
September 5, 2009, 08:53 PM
alot of people are nervous about doing anything in public untill they see someone else do it in public. that can be applied to most anything you can think of.
its like little timmy or little buffy being to scared to wear a speedo or thong at the public pool, but when they see alot of other people doing so, the social stigma is removed.

however, some people are always going to be afraid of something, and those people are always going to be freaked out when they see someone carrying a gun. ive known a few people who were so scared of guns, they would actually get scared at seeing uniformed LEO with weapons.

General Geoff
September 5, 2009, 09:02 PM
ive known a few people who were so scared of guns, they would actually get scared at seeing uniformed LEO with weapons.

These people have an irrational fear of weapons, hoplophobia.

ArchAngelCD
September 6, 2009, 02:25 AM
IMO if you live your life in fear of what other will think of you then you've already lost. If you give in to the fears of others you have lost because you allow their fears to change you. It's the sheeple that need to change, not those who choose to honor our Founding Fathers, The Constitution and those who lost their lives defending our way of life.

God Bless The USA...

mljdeckard
September 6, 2009, 12:38 PM
Still doesn't mean that there aren't times when it's just a bad idea.

sgt127
September 8, 2009, 04:43 PM
For all the open carry folks, a question. I have open carried for the last 25 years. But, my gun was attached to a uniform. How many of you wear security holsters? How many of you actually took the time to learn gun grab defense techniques? I know when I carry off duty, I can wear a substantially faster/less secure holster than in uniform. As a matter of fact, my draw times from concealment are every bit as fast as from my uniform holster. Not spending all my time off duty looking behind me and slamming my elbow against my gun but everytime somebody bumps into me in a crowd is kind of nice.

If you live where concealed carry is not an option, open carry everywhere you can and more power to you, I would do the same thing, but, given the option to carry concealed, I would go that route every time.

Gryffydd
September 8, 2009, 07:58 PM
my draw times from concealment are every bit as fast as from my uniform holster
Your uniform holster must have a sucky retention system.

chris in va
September 8, 2009, 09:30 PM
How many of you wear security holsters? How many of you actually took the time to learn gun grab defense techniques?

And I humbly ask you to cite references where a citizen 'gun grab' situation happened.

BTW I wear either a thumb snap or SERPA retention holster when I OC.

sgt127
September 8, 2009, 11:20 PM
Your uniform holster must have a sucky retention system.

Its OK...I'm just very fast from the appendix carry...It seems a more natural place to carry a gun, for me.

And I humbly ask you to cite references where a citizen 'gun grab' situation happened.

Good point. I suppose its not something to worry about......

kdstrick
September 8, 2009, 11:47 PM
I'm all for open carry, and completely support those whom choose to do so. But I will continue to carry concealed based on my desire to remain 'low-key'. It only takes a shirt tail to cover it up.

Draw times only matter in westerns. Awareness makes it irrelevant. ;)

withdrawn34
September 9, 2009, 12:49 AM
Well, I can see it both ways. More open carry will sort of force "fence sitters" to see that people who carry guns aren't insane people who will shoot down everyone they see. They'll see that guns don't pick themselves up and shoot people.

But I suppose that someone with elitest/ignorant-fear tendencies could use it to belittle and be prejudiced against open carriers. However, the willingness to do such a thing reflects a lack of terror - in effect, admitting that open carriers aren't really a threat to them at all, and the only problem is their own prejudices against people who carry self-defense tools.

ArchAngelCD
September 9, 2009, 05:31 AM
I also carry concealed because I just don't want to deal with the local police who think they know better than the law makers.

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