How should I handle this?


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kwelz
September 5, 2009, 01:05 PM
There is a local dealer who has done some work on my guns in the past. We have always had a good relationship but now there is a problem.

I asked him to cut 5 Uzi Mags for use in an AR15. This was back in late May. He finally got them done this last week and I went by to get them on Friday. He was not in but the guy that worked for him was. He called the owner to find out the total and was told $75.00. :eek:

His reasoning is that he had to buy new Cutting dies. My thoughts on this is that
A: if he did not have the tools to do the work he should not have taken the job.
and
B: He should have let me know he was going to have to purchase new tools and informed me this would increase the cost.


Am I being unreasonable here? 15 bucks per mags seems like a Lot for the machining work that needs to be done.

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NavyLCDR
September 5, 2009, 01:09 PM
Did you get an estimate from him before turning over your items for him to work on? He should stick by his estimate or inform you before the price increase, but only if you got an estimate first.

It is normal practice for a company to roll the price of specially made tools into the first order requiring those tools. Companies who make custom coins, etc do this. In your first order they include a price hike for the dies, then subsequent orders after that are cheaper.

ambidextrous1
September 5, 2009, 01:24 PM
Buying cutting tools is the "cost of doing business" for a 'smith. Over the long term, he'll (hopefully) turn a profit, and the tools of his trade will be purchased with the money he receives from his clents.

If he's trying to recoup his tooling costs from this one job, that's unreasonable, because those tools will be useful for future jobs. If your job price includes purchase of tooling, then the purchased tooling should be delivered to you upon completion of the job.

I'd suggest that you ask him for an itemized description of the pricing for your job - just to see what you're paying for.

kingpin008
September 5, 2009, 01:26 PM
I'm also curious if you had an agreed-upon price before you shook on the deal. If so, he needs to man up and honor the original price.

If you didn't have a set price before handing over the mags, well, shame on you. But, he should have explained that he didn't have the correct tooling to do the work before he accepted the mags.

Even if it is standard procedure to include the price of purchasing specialty tooling in the price of the first order done with that tooling, if the customer isn't notfied of that first, it's bad business IMHO.

MachIVshooter
September 5, 2009, 01:29 PM
Am I being unreasonable here? 15 bucks per mags seems like a Lot for the machining work that needs to be done

No. The need to purchase the tool definitely should have been disclosed. And if he is charging you fulll price for the tool, then that tool belongs to you when the job is completed.

It is normal practice for a company to roll the price of specially made tools into the first order requiring those tools

I turn wrenches for a living. I don't bill my customers when I have to buy a special too to complete the job. It is my responsibilty to be properly equipped. I have many expensive tools that have only been used once or twice and will never pay for themselves. That is offset by the ones that are used with great frequency.

If they do intend to charge him for the special tool, they need to disclose that and turn over the tool to him after the job is completed so that he may have the opportunity to recoup some of the cost. That, or come to an agreement about him paying a certain percentage of the tool cost based on the potential for that tool to be used in the future.

kwelz
September 5, 2009, 02:16 PM
No we did not have an agreed upon price when I dropped the mags off. Yes I should have however he has always treated me very fairly and I had no reason to think this case would be any different. I am going in there Tuesday to speak to him in person in the hopes that we can come to an agreement. I didn't once complain to him that it took 3 month to do the work, and I really do feel a bit betrayed that he is trying to charge me so much for it.

BlkHawk73
September 5, 2009, 02:37 PM
If you didn't get an agreed upon price before hand, I'd say you have learned a lesson. While it may b high to you, you have said he always treats you fairly and have no reason to think otherwise this time yet still dispute the cost. ??? You're paying for his time and if new tools are needed some of the cost for that as well. Raise to big of a stink and you might just pay for it later on on something else. To me $15 per doesn't sound that bad.

jakemccoy
September 5, 2009, 02:53 PM
I'd pay the $75, move on and learn from the experience. The time wasted trying to fight it would not be worth it to me. Well, I'd briefly argue with the guy, but I wouldn't waste too much time. You should have gotten a written agreement that indicated the price, a description of the work and an estimated time of completion. The good news is that it's only $75, and you will be getting magazines out of the deal. For comparison, I bought some OEM 10-round magazines for my Saiga 308 for over $15 each.

kwelz
September 5, 2009, 03:00 PM
I guess it just goes to show you can't trust anyone. The part that makes me mad is that I am not "getting" the mags out of this. I already own the Mags. He was just supposed to cut them. I guess I should have spent an hour months ago to do it myself.

kd7nqb
September 5, 2009, 03:01 PM
I think its certainly worth a conversation with him. I would be willing to bet he works with you a little bit.

On the other hand I am NEVER surprised by what gun smithing costs.

GRIZ22
September 5, 2009, 03:01 PM
Did you get an estimate from him before turning over your items for him to work on?

If you said "do this" and didn't ask what it costs I feel you just have to pay up and move on.

NavyLCDR
September 5, 2009, 03:27 PM
Buying cutting tools is the "cost of doing business" for a 'smith. Over the long term, he'll (hopefully) turn a profit, and the tools of his trade will be purchased with the money he receives from his clents.

If he's trying to recoup his tooling costs from this one job, that's unreasonable, because those tools will be useful for future jobs. If your job price includes purchase of tooling, then the purchased tooling should be delivered to you upon completion of the job.

I'd suggest that you ask him for an itemized description of the pricing for your job - just to see what you're paying for.

Just how many requests to cut UZI magazines to fit an AR-15 do you suppose a gunsmith will get? The OP didn't get an estimate, the gunsmith charged him what it would cost him to do the job in materials. Seems perfectly acceptable to me.

Kindrox
September 6, 2009, 12:17 AM
If your job required him to buy something and he wants to charge you for it, then you own it. Get it from him and take it with you.

coloradokevin
September 6, 2009, 01:21 AM
Personally, I'd have had him give me an estimate BEFORE the work was done, and then I'd have expected him to stick by the estimate he originally gave me. I can't honestly say what it would cost to do such work, so I'd settle on a price prior to asking someone to do it for me. Just my thoughts.

PandaBearBG
September 6, 2009, 02:00 AM
Agreed with the guys above, get a detailed itemized list and if he factored in the total cost of the tools then you should get the tools too. I do think it a bit shady that he didn't have the hardware to do it and did not inform you and that it took so long too.

Deus Machina
September 6, 2009, 02:10 AM
Short version:

Ask for an explanation.
Negotiate down, citing the undisclosed price of tooling. Even let him know that, without having known it up front, you feel you thought it safe to assume he had that, and don't feel you should pay for them.
Pay the negotiated price.
Keep that in mind next time.

If he won't let you negotiate down, pay it, let him know you're unhappy, and go somewhere else after this.

If he's been good to you so far, and you enjoy a good relationship with him, he'll probably let you talk him down anyway, but I, personally, might return to him, with the explicit demand of an itemized and written estimate up front.

peyton
September 6, 2009, 03:35 AM
Yep, you bought the cutting tool, take your tool, your magazines and find another gunsmith. Or, pay the bill and live with it, in my mind I would smile pay the bill, keep your friend and gunsmith. Relationships are few and far between, I would not throw a friendship away over $75.00.

Oyeboten
September 6, 2009, 03:45 AM
Trouble is...the Gunsmith would throw-away-a-friendship for "$75.00" though...


So...there's a rub...


Anyway...I've made my Living in my Workshop for a long time...I've never charged a Customer for New Tools I felt I wanted or needed to do their Job.

If I spent $300.00 for Tools to do a "$35.00 Job" I wanted to do right...the 'Bill' would be "$35.00".


Tooling is my look-out, not my Customer's problem or liability.



Anyway...

loop
September 6, 2009, 06:00 AM
I spent many years turning a wrench so I do most of my own smithing.

When something is beyond my ability or equipment I have a smith I use. We've built a good relationship and while most people wait 30 days or more for their work, mine is usually done within 48 hours and at a very reasonable price.

One time he did really poor work and charged me far too much.

I paid what he asked, but now I am a little more specific about what I want done and how much he will charge.

He knows I wasn't pleased with the one job because I've mentioned it wasn't up to HIS usual standards.

But, I still get my guns back in 24 to 48 hours and now pay even more reasonable prices - not mention many little freebies (I just installed this extended safety and it hits the grip and I just don't have the right equipment to take this little edge off - done while I wait free of charge).

It is better to have friends than enemies - even of your friends cost you a bit from time to time...

That said, I never charged a customer for the tools to do the job. If I had to buy tools I spent my own money and they were my tools.

IMHO, I'd pay the price and complain about the time frame. I would compliment the work and ask it it isn't possible I could get service work done a bit more promptly in the future.

JMO

The Lone Haranguer
September 6, 2009, 06:17 AM
Buying cutting tools is the "cost of doing business" for a 'smith. Over the long term, he'll (hopefully) turn a profit, and the tools of his trade will be purchased with the money he receives from his clents.

If he's trying to recoup his tooling costs from this one job, that's unreasonable, because those tools will be useful for future jobs. If your job price includes purchase of tooling, then the purchased tooling should be delivered to you upon completion of the job.

I am also a tradesman (automotive technician) who purchases his own tools. Sometimes to do a job I or the shop have to buy a SFT (Special _ Tool; you guess the rest:evil:). It may delay getting the job done for a short time and may seldom or never be used again, but the customer does not get billed for it.

Perhaps in the future you (and the gunsmith) should take another page from the auto repair trade: get an estimate first, and if for some reason - and things do go wrong - the price is to be exceeded, he must inform you first before proceeding.

Sav .250
September 6, 2009, 07:08 AM
Should have gotten an estimate for the work requested, IMO.

The Lone Haranguer
September 6, 2009, 08:42 AM
I am not a gunsmith, or familiar with either the Uzi or the Arf, but I would guess that to make magazines for the former work in the latter, a new, relocated catch cutout must be made. This would seem to require little more than careful measuring, a cutoff wheel and a needle file, all of which he should have had already. If some sort of mandrel and punch die are required it would be different.

Ohio Gun Guy
September 6, 2009, 09:23 AM
I would definately talk to them about it. You should have gotten an estimate, but that doesnt give them a blank check either. I would talk to them about it, but then lets be real $75 is not enough to go to court or even a yelling match.

As much as you should have asked for a quote, they should have given one. At the very least, they should have called and ran the "Abnormal" pricing problem past you.......IE "We normally do this kind of work for X dollars, however we'll need to buy something special to do what you have asked...... Do you still want us to do this for you?"

Talk to them, be firm but polite & reasonable. If they are not, pay the 75 and NEVER go back.

chuckusaret
September 6, 2009, 01:57 PM
I got caught the same way on having a shotgun ported. While discussing the recoil and barrel rise of a new HD short barrel shotgun it was recommended by the shops gunsmith to have the barrel ported. I inquired as to how much, the answer, cheap. I left my gun to have the porting done and failed to ask about cost and estimated completion date. Long story short, four months later and $100 I got my $260 Mossberg back. Does the porting help reduce recoil? not that I can tell. Does it reduce barrel rise? somewhat. Was it worth the 4 month wait and $100 cost? No. A very good lesson learned.

FlyinBryan
September 7, 2009, 10:00 PM
the biggest deal to me personally would be the quality of the work. as long as he didnt wreck any of them, and they function perfectly, i wouldnt have an issue with 75 bucks.

what size invoice would have your approval?

if we are talking about 20 or 25 dollars difference here maybe you should take things to a smith who fits your financial expectations and just hope and pray you can trust him with your guns. (or get an additional job like a paper route or lemonade stand and keep taking them to the guy who overcharges you but does decent work)

kwelz
September 7, 2009, 10:02 PM
I expected them to be in the 40-50 dollar range.

PandaBearBG
September 7, 2009, 10:43 PM
Is there anyone who knows a honest gunsmith on how much it would actually cost to cut those mags? I am just curious, as to what a comparible price would be.

FlyinBryan
September 7, 2009, 10:45 PM
so we are alking 25-35 dollars.

i would have more of an issue with the time frame than the cost. if i trusted him with my guns and accessories i would probably just eat it and continue to support the shop. maybe he will cut you a deal on your next visit, or has before even.

i try to take the good with the bad, and 30 or 40 dollars aint that bad when you consider all the possible outcomes with taking them elsewhere, like returning to pick them up and they are all butchered to hell, or worse.

there are so many outfits that rip folks off so bad every month, like local water utilities, the power companies, and banks and credit card companies, insurance agents, etc, etc, etc.,,,,,,, your smith is a saint compared to those types, not to mention being on our side of the fence when it comes to the very idea of firearms. cut him some slack and consider it a tip for even getting your mags back to you in the condition you had hoped for.

Sam1911
September 8, 2009, 08:17 AM
$25-$35 difference? So less than a box of factory ammo. :scrutiny:

Go see your 'smith. If you are pleased with the quality of the work, tell him so.

Then, politely and humbly, tell him that you feel that YOU should have asked for an estimate of both the time the job would take, and the cost -- and that any customer deserves these two things when asking for any work to be done.

Then tell him would have appreciated a call to let you know that the job had hit a snag and that it would take longer than expected -- and that he was planning to charge you for the new tooling.

BUT, that since neither of you asked for or offered any kind of estimate, you will be HAPPY to pay for his QUALITY work, and that you will be back to visit him when you need gunsmithing done. Then pay him, shake his hand, smile, and FORGET THE WHOLE THING.

As others have said, this is hardly worth stress between you. Quality skilled craftsmen are rare, and should be valued far above the cost of a cheap dinner out.

-Sam

danprkr
September 8, 2009, 08:35 AM
Did you get an estimate from him before turning over your items for him to work on? He should stick by his estimate or inform you before the price increase, but only if you got an estimate first.


Ditto

Norinco982lover
September 8, 2009, 11:48 AM
$25-$35 difference? So less than a box of factory ammo.

Go see your 'smith. If you are pleased with the quality of the work, tell him so.

Then, politely and humbly, tell him that you feel that YOU should have asked for an estimate of both the time the job would take, and the cost -- and that any customer deserves these two things when asking for any work to be done.

Then tell him would have appreciated a call to let you know that the job had hit a snag and that it would take longer than expected -- and that he was planning to charge you for the new tooling.

BUT, that since neither of you asked for or offered any kind of estimate, you will be HAPPY to pay for his QUALITY work, and that you will be back to visit him when you need gunsmithing done. Then pay him, shake his hand, smile, and FORGET THE WHOLE THING.

As others have said, this is hardly worth stress between you. Quality skilled craftsmen are rare, and should be valued far above the cost of a cheap dinner out.

-Sam

Sam1911 is right on.

~Norinco

kwelz
September 8, 2009, 12:22 PM
I will of course be polite. However I must say that Humble is not in the cards. While I should have asked for an estimate up front he is also trying to charge far above what the work is worth. I could have purchased new mags already but for around 20 bucks. Adding the price I already paid for these mags I am looking at around 30 bucks a piece. A considerable difference in these times when money is tight. It may not even have been a big deal if he had not taken months to complete them, but he.

Sam1911
September 8, 2009, 01:25 PM
While I should have asked for an estimate up front he is also trying to charge far above what the work is worth.
In your opinion. Unless he has posted a rate per hour and is invoicing you for time spent -- OR he had quoted you the price ahead of time, his work is worth whatever he says it is.

I could have purchased new mags already but for around 20 bucks. Adding the price I already paid for these mags I am looking at around 30 bucks a piece.

Custom work is always expensive. $10 more than a stock item doesn't seem much for a "customized" item.

A considerable difference in these times when money is tight.
It's no less tight for him than it is for you, and maybe more so. He may have been able to cover the costs of new tooling for a one-off job last year, but now he can't because his overhead has risen and his cash flow is very slim. A lot of places have stopped covering shipping costs for buyers, and ended all manner of other "freebies" because they have to keep the lights on and can't afford it anymore. And a lot of places have just closed their doors. Who knows, maybe this is SOP for him and he assumed you knew. Ask him, politely. He'll probably discuss it with you and might even reduce the cost himself if it seems unfair.

I don't think it is right that he didn't give you an estimate and then stick to it. But, for $25-$30 extra, he sure won't retire early on what he's making off of you. Chalk it up to experience and be happy you now have mags that work.

IMHO

-Sam

kev74
September 8, 2009, 02:08 PM
So her charged you $75 for what probably took an hour or so (10 to 15 minutes per mag)? That's not an unreasonable labor rate for a professional regardless of whether or not he had to buy new tooling. I have a feeling you paid for his labor and perhaps waited for his new tool to arrive.

If $75 an hour seems steep for gun smith work, you're in for a big surprise if your car breaks down or you have to call a plumber. :eek:

SSN Vet
September 8, 2009, 02:13 PM
When we quote jobs where I work, if special tooling is required, it is factored into the price. I'm not talking about generic blades and cutters.... but something different, to be used exclusively on that job. I suggest you ask what specifically this "special tooling" was and ask to see it.

If our customer's pay for tooling, they can ask for it returned with the order, or ask that we keep it on file for the next order. I think you should be able to do the same.

If he wants to keep it, suggest that you shouldn't pay for it....

worst case scenario... you bought some special tooling that's of no value to you.

best case scenario... he wants to keep the tools and reduces you price.

as for $15 dollars/mag being fair....

How long to you think it took him? $75 is about the going rate for 90 minutes of a skilled machinist time. That would be about 18 min. each.... or more likely 10 min each with a ~1/2 hour set up. Doesn't sound to out of line to me...

Did he do a nice job? Do you want to stay on good terms with him.

I'd just ask to talk to him and politely say "Hey those mags looked great, but they wound up costing me a lot more than I anticipated, I wish I had know they were going to be a problem for you"

and then give him a chance to respond....

kwelz
September 8, 2009, 02:15 PM
Well I went in and things did not go well.
First off I was very polite and after talking to people on here (Looking at you Sam) willing to pay the full amount if he didn't budge on it. However I still wanted to talk to him about it.

There were a couple people in the shop when I got there so I just made small talk till they left since I felt it was bad form to have this kind of discussion with other customers present.

I started off very polite and said "I wanted to talk a bit about the magazines. I was surprised at the cost." And at this point things went to hell. He immediately got an attitude and berated me about not knowing machining, etc. Honestly in the time I have been going there I have never seen him cop a holier than thou attitude till today.

I tried to keep my temper but it was pretty hard with the way he was talking to me. At no point did I yell or show anger but I can tell you I was pretty pissed. At one point he told me I could just leave and he could keep his magazines. Of course I responded that they were not his and if he kept them it would be theft. At that point I realized the conversation was going no where. I attempted to calm things down but he pretty much just keep up with his condescending tone about how I don't know machining so have no right to complain.

A couple more customers came in at this point and I stopped arguing with him. I didn't feel it was right to continue with people in the store again. If I decide I am completely done with him and I was wronged then yes I will let everyone and their brother l know how he treated me. But at that point I wanted to try to remain civil.


Right now I am extremely pissed. Not that he charged what he did, but that he had the attitude that he did and tried to throw back in my face that he has given me good deals in the past. I have always been one of his biggest proponents in this area I send people his way for Gunsmithing and refinishing work. I have defended him when people were not happy with his work and I have even paid him to correct work on my guns that were really his fault in the first place.

Now all that being said, the work he did on these mags was excellent. They look as good at the Stock RRA mag that came with the gun. But I am not sure how to proceed after how he acted.

ETS:
SSN Vet, the tooling required ended up being a set of carbide tools since he apparently broke one of his other tools working on one of the mags.

Norinco982lover
September 8, 2009, 02:23 PM
Ouch! Sounds like you took a pretty reasonable approach and he went off for no reason. Did you get the mags? And did you pay him? That is some crazy stuff. If you paid for the tools then you should get them...it is his cost of business for his tools... carbide drills or blades or whatever they were are not "specialty" items.

At least you found out his true self ...better now than later on a more expensive project.

Overall, the situation stinks. :( I would cut your losses and never speak with him again.

~Norinco

kwelz
September 8, 2009, 02:27 PM
I did go ahead and pay for the mags. I was not happy about it but he was holding them hostage. I would have to pay the same amount to get new mags and then cut them again myself.

He claims he told me how much they were going to be when he got the tools. Because he "Told me how much the tools cost" By the way he says the carbide parts were 68 bucks and that it took him 4 hours to cut the mags. So according to him it took him almost an hour per mag to do with professional equipment what I did in an hour with a Grinder and vice before.

Also it is possible that I was not as nice as I thought I sounded. I really don't believe that is the case but as we all know we are not always the best judge of ourselves.

Norinco982lover
September 8, 2009, 02:33 PM
He did tell you it would be $75 because he got the tools..you said that in your first post. So when he finished the job he informed you of the price... but not in the middle.

So by his own account if he is not willing to give you the $68 in tools than his excuse of "I had to buy more tools so it is more expensive" does not stand.

I hate gun shops in general...this story isn't too encouraging:D

I'm glad you got your mags back.

~Norinco

Pweller
September 8, 2009, 02:57 PM
I agree with Sam1911. Furthermore, I didn't see a definitive answer as to how long the job took. There seems to be speculation that it may have taken an hour, which seems to be the minimum most anything takes, so a $75 an hour rate is very reasonable.

I am a tradesman of sorts, and my minimum charge for anything that I do is $85. Even if it only takes me 10 minutes, the minimum is still $85. You have to realize that when you are selling your time, doing little crap jobs at $75 a pop is a very hard way to make a living.

I think you are also missing a very important point here, which is the job was done nearly perfectly (as per your description). A lot of customers assume a good job, and then focus only on price. Well, assuming good quality work is a bad assumption. You could have very easily taken that somewhere else and paid $50 and gotten such poor results that you would have had to either scrap the magazines or take them someplace else to have the work redone. Don't overlook this possibility. I've had people bring me work where they wasted $500-$1500 on recent, previous repair attempts which was money down the drain.

I am very careful to give people quotes before any work is done, whether or not they ask for it. That was the only real problem in this deal. What you think the job is worth is irrelevant, he can charge whatever he wants, and then you make the choice whether or not to proceed.

kwelz
September 8, 2009, 05:57 PM
Pweller he claims it took 4 hours of machining work. I still find this odd but he seems to think I am an idiot since I am not a machinist so who knows. Either way, at this point it isn't so much the cost, as I said earlier I am less worried about this that I am the attitude he showed today.

Sam1911
September 8, 2009, 06:32 PM
First off I was very polite and after talking to people on here (Looking at you Sam) willing to pay the full amount if he didn't budge on it. However I still wanted to talk to him about it.
Good on you. Very reasonable.

There were a couple people in the shop when I got there so I just made small talk till they left since I felt it was bad form to have this kind of discussion with other customers present.
Again, handled very much above board. Good job.

I started off very polite and said "I wanted to talk a bit about the magazines. I was surprised at the cost."
If that's just what you said, that is just about the perfect way to phrase it.

And at this point things went to hell. He immediately got an attitude and berated me about not knowing machining, etc. Honestly in the time I have been going there I have never seen him cop a holier than thou attitude till today.
Wow! That is totally unexpected and completely unacceptable.


I tried to keep my temper but it was pretty hard with the way he was talking to me. At no point did I yell or show anger but I can tell you I was pretty pissed. Good job. You couldn't "win" at that point anyway. Better to let the blow-hard blow out and not get your own blood-pressure up.

At one point he told me I could just leave and he could keep his magazines. Of course I responded that they were not his and if he kept them it would be theft. Many repair shops have some kind of posted policy that items left un-paid-for beyond a certain date are forfeited and will be sold to cover costs. Not sure how legal this is in this case, but it's probably not something you could take action on. Not for an item of so little actual value.

A couple more customers came in at this point and I stopped arguing with him. I didn't feel it was right to continue with people in the store again. If I decide I am completely done with him and I was wronged then yes I will let everyone and their brother l know how he treated me. But at that point I wanted to try to remain civil.Sounds reasonable to me!

Right now I am extremely pissed. Not that he charged what he did, but that he had the attitude that he did and tried to throw back in my face that he has given me good deals in the past.
Yes. That is far more damning than his charge.

Now all that being said, the work he did on these mags was excellent. They look as good at the Stock RRA mag that came with the gun. But I am not sure how to proceed after how he acted.How to proceed? Take your very well modified mags and use them happily. Beyond that, don't give him any more business and feel free to advise others of his behavior. If he can't treat a customer with respect, then he doesn't deserve customers.

Some folks are in business for themselves because they don't have the social skills to work with another human being. Might be his problem.

the tooling required ended up being a set of carbide tools since he apparently broke one of his other tools working on one of the mags.IMHO, that does cross the line. Carbide cutters are a consumable item. If that's something that he keeps in stock and uses regularly, he has to account for breakage, wear, and eventual replacement. It is not reasonable or right to tack on an additional charge for what has to be viewed as normal wear & tear. Did he charge you 'cause he had to change the roll of TP in the bathroom during your job, too? :rolleyes:

he claims it took 4 hours of machining work.I also don't personally believe that, either. It might have taken a 1/2 hour to set up, but after that, he shouldn't have needed 3-1/2 more hours to make a few simple cuts. I don't think the $75 is unreasonable for an hour's work, but if he really took 4 hours to do it, no wonder he's such a jerk. Working that slowly must be terribly frustrating. He's only grossing $18.75 an hour and that won't keep the lights on for long!

Sorry for your frustrations. Sounds like you handled it well and he didn't.

Should be pretty easy to figure out how to proceed from here on out!

-Sam

flrfh213
September 8, 2009, 07:09 PM
i skipped most of the bla-blah but if i do a job and need a tool I AM REQUIRED TO BUY IT and not the employer. if you paid for a tool to do your mags, you should have been handed the tool you paid for... if not he needs to eat the tool cost.....

mgregg85
September 8, 2009, 07:16 PM
That sounds crappy but then again you didn't get an estimate.

Walkalong
September 8, 2009, 07:20 PM
It is better to have friends than enemies - even of your friends cost you a bit from time to time...

Best answer yet. Fuss a little, but not a lot, keep the friendship/relationship going.

kwelz
September 8, 2009, 07:20 PM
You all need to read my updates..

FlyinBryan
September 8, 2009, 08:03 PM
as long as you feel like you made the right decision all is well.

at least its behind you now and you certainly aint gonna have to worry about dealing with him any more. (because im sure you wont go back and if you did im sure he would tell you to take a hike)

KarenTOC
September 8, 2009, 09:55 PM
I'll echo several other people's suggestions: Pay the money. Take your magazines. Find a new gunsmith.

I have defended him when people were not happy with his work and I have even paid him to correct work on my guns that were really his fault in the first place.

A person whose services you pay for is a "professional."
Someone who regularly messes up is a "screwup."

Sounds like your gunsmith is a professional screwup.

meef
September 8, 2009, 11:55 PM
Life's too short to deal with people who piss you off if you have other options (which is almost always the case).

Take it as a lesson and find another gunsmith.

Also - get quotes or estimates up front. Saves a lot of heartache. I always ask for ballpark "how long and how much" estimates.

If both are met within a reasonable margin, I'm a happy camper and continue to come back and spend money.

:)

chuckusaret
September 9, 2009, 09:39 AM
I'll echo several other people's suggestions: Pay the money. Take your magazines. Find a new gunsmith.

I agree. If this guy is as bad as he sounds he will be looking for work shortly. I asked a local gunsmith that has done work for me what he would charge and his reply; if I had the time it would be .1 hour labor for set up and .1 hour of labor per mag and .1 hour cleanup and inspection, or a max of .7 hours X $75= $52.50. But, he did stipulate that he presently has a 3-4 month backlog on gun repairs and not to expect them any sooner. Each and everytime he this guy has done work for me he filled out an estimate sheet that included hourly rate, man hours to complete the job and completion date. He is a professional.

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