.357 Mag w/ 125gr JHP / 10.0gr HS-6 = 1212 ft/sec?


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keltec
September 5, 2009, 03:17 PM
Hi there!

This is my 1st post, and I'm, looking for some feedback on my current (.357 mag) hand load, as I am a bit disapointed with my FPS result.

125gr Winchester JHP
10.0gr HS-6
CCI 550 sp-mag primers
Federal and RP brass

I had a chance to use a chronograph and shot 11 rounds through it, I tossed out my highest and lowest FPS result, and used the remaining 9 shots to get an average of 1212 FPS. This came out of a Taurus 608 (.357 mag) with a 6.5" barrel.

My questions are:

1. Does this seam a bit slow to you?
2. What FPS results are you getting with HS-6 shooting a 125gr bullet?

I was expecting to get close to 1500 FPS, as my 1998 Hodgon Basic Reloading Manual shows 10.0gr of HS-6 @ 1542 FPS with 34,800 CUP out of a 7" barrel.

Any thoughts or advice is welcomed. Thanks......

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Walkalong
September 5, 2009, 03:20 PM
I haven't shot HS-6 in .357, but 9.1 Grs of N340 gives me around 1350 FPS with a 125 Gr JHP from a 6" barrel, so I would think 10 Grs of HS-6 would be close or even beat that.

rcmodel
September 5, 2009, 03:38 PM
I think Hodgdon got a little overly optimistic with that load data results.

Hornady #4 shows a 125 XTP, HS-6 starting load of 10.5 grains giving in the 1,450 FPS range.
A MAX load of 11.6 is 1,600.

That out of an 8 3/8" S&W Model 27!

rc

Galil5.56
September 5, 2009, 04:25 PM
////

tasco 74
September 5, 2009, 04:32 PM
1212 is a good fps speed for a .357 magnum handgun..... you must remember the fastest isn't always the most accurate..... i'd like to see the target groups from what you have there ........


LIFE IS SHORT.....

RidgwayCO
September 5, 2009, 04:56 PM
How far was the chronograph from the end of the barrel? If you're too close (less than 10 feet), then muzzle blast can mess up the readings. Just a possibility.

keltec
September 5, 2009, 05:00 PM
tasco74,

At (15'-18') I can put them all in the 4" target. My 608 holds 8 rounds, so it fills it up good. Thats freehand, and good enough for me. I know some guys will say they can shoot 1-2" groups, but I'm happy with what I can do. I just walk up and bang, bang, bang, until empty........ never timed it, but my guess is about 7-8 secs. I figure, if needed, that would do the trick while I'm at home.

keltec
September 5, 2009, 05:32 PM
RidgwayCo,

Chrono was about 8' from gun. My buddy just got it, and was shooting his .308 handloads, @ 10', he said you need to be closer, so I went 8', however he forgot the directions at home, so he was not sure of what distance I should be with a handgun.

His .308's (150gr were going about 2700 FPS) and I had some H-110 loads worked up from 10 years ago, not sure of what I had in them, might have been around 19.0gr, but they did 1513 avg FPS out of my gun.

Steve C
September 5, 2009, 05:55 PM
Just for comparison, the Speer #13 manual lists 10.0 grs of HS-6 using a CCI magnum primer producing 1,009 fps from a 6" S&W model 19 and a max load of 11.3grs at 1,124gr.

Hodgdon uses a 10" test barrel to determine theri velocities so with the loss from the cylinder/barrel gap in a revolver along with the shorter barrel you actually did pretty good.

I haven't used HS-6 with 125gr bullets in the .357 mag but have with 110gr bullets. In loads I've chrono with 10,6gr of HS-6 behind an IMI 110gr bullet my velocities where 1,341 fps from a 6" Colt Trooper and 1,212 fps from a 3.5" S&W M27.

Walkalong
September 5, 2009, 08:08 PM
I just looked in the Speer #13 and for 125 Gr jacketed bullets with HS-6 it gives a start load of 10.0 Grs for 1009 FPS & a max load of 11.3 for 1124 FPS. That was from a 6" Model 19.


Well d***, I should have read Steve C's post first. Never mind. :o

zxcvbob
September 5, 2009, 08:20 PM
10.0 is kind of a light charge with 125 grain bullets (you are using .357 brass and not .38 Special, right?). You should be getting more than 1200 fps, but maybe the powder is not burning completely; try it again at 10.5 and see if it cleans up for you. Max load is 11.something.

I tend to load everything towards the upper end, and I choose the powder (fast, slow, in-between) that will get me the velocity i want.

jfh
September 5, 2009, 09:00 PM
Among other "Rules of thumb" I got from the Ramshot ballistician:

1. 20% lower with a vented (revolver) barrel, as opposed to the pressure barrel values.

2. 5% lower for shorter barrel length, per inch. That's a ballpark. With HS-6, I doubt that I would chop it 20% for the drop from 10" to (nominally) 6"

So, my assessment is that you did just fine--i.e., Steve C's comments apply.

Jim H.

keltec
September 5, 2009, 11:17 PM
jfh,

Are you saying that with a (ported / vented) barrel you loose about 20% FPS vs non-ported barrels?

I never even thought about that. My 608 is ported, from the Factory.

jfh
September 5, 2009, 11:24 PM
No--I'm using the jargon he used to describe the difference between a pressure barrel and a revolver--i.e., a barrel which is not continuous with the cylinder.

If you google in this forum or in the revolver or semiauto forums, for ported barrels, you'll find at least a couple of threads with discussions about the velocity loss on ported barrels (revolver and semiauto).

added on edit: Somebody recently bought the latest j-frame with the 2.25" ported barrel, and IIRC was able to compare it against a j-frame with the 1.875" barrel. Sorry, I don't have a link to it--but the velocity drop was less than we expected--I think something like 50-70 fps.

Jim H.

keltec
September 5, 2009, 11:32 PM
Steve C, Walkalong,

What year is that Speer #13 manual?
It seams every manual is a bit different, Speer #13, Hornady #4, or Hodgon's ect.... the results are a bit differnet.

Based on Speer #13 data that you both posted, my 1212 FPS results were good vs their 1009 FPS result. That makes me feel a bit better.

I do realize I can go a bit higher than 10.0grs and most likely will.

Whats does Speer # 13 say about H-110, did they shoot it also from the same 6" S/W #19? Thanks for your help........ I got 1513 FPS out of my gun, H-110.

keltec
September 5, 2009, 11:50 PM
zxcvbob,

Yep, .357 mag Federal & RP brass.

Started with 10.0gr back in 1996, shot it, liked it, did the job. I did not shoot at all from 2002 till this summer (abt 7 years) got the bug again, shot like 100+ rounds, loaded some more, then my buddy got a Chronograph, and thats brings me to today, and this thread. Thanks.

tasco 74
September 6, 2009, 02:02 AM
sounds plenty accurate for that gun offhand.......... i've never loaded any of that gr weight bullet but i do load hard cast 150 gr. swcs with 6.2 grs. of bullseye and get the same size group as you're talkin from my s&w model 27 6"........... they chrony at 1230-1235 fps consistantly........ i really need to get to the range to shoot some this summer before it's over:(...............

LIFE IS SHORT.....

ArchAngelCD
September 6, 2009, 02:23 AM
keltec,
Welcome to the forum neighbor...

Like the others have already said, Hodgdon and most other sources are always very optimistic when quoting velocity numbers. I doubt you will ever reach the velocity they quote when you fire the rounds.

HS-6 is a medium burn rate powder and you will never achieve the highest velocities in a .357 Magnum with it. It's a very good powder that I use a lot but not if you are looking for top end numbers. Slower burning powders like H110/W296, 2400, AA#9, Lil'Gun, 4227 and a few others will be needed for the highest velocities. IMO 1200+ fps from a 125gr bullet using HS-6 is doing good with that powder. I have no doubt using the Max charge of W296/H110 recommended on the Hodgdon Load Data site (http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp) you will get that 1,500 fps and more you are looking for with a 125gr bullet. Why you will need all that velocity is a wonder to me but it's your right to chase it. Good luck getting the numbers up but don't be disappointed in the velocity you achieved with HS-6 because IMO you did well.

Steve C
September 6, 2009, 02:50 AM
Speer #13 copyright 1998, mine was 5th printing 2003. Speer published their latest #14 in 2007 but I don't see any reason to get the new one yet.

jfh
September 6, 2009, 12:47 PM
Although I will admit that the reason I bought it was for the "replica reload" short barrel work I did--not so much for general reference.

Speer's original PDFs for their GDSB bullet recipes are greatly expanded in the 14.

Jim H.

Walkalong
September 6, 2009, 02:14 PM
I have the Speer #14 on my list, but keep finding other things to buy from Midway instead. One day.

Whats does Speer # 13 say about H-110, did they shoot it also from the same 6" S/W #19?

Speer #13

.357.....125 Gr jacketed bullets.....6" Model 19.....H110 powder.....Mag primer (CCI 550)

Start load - 18.0 Grs....1154 FPS

Max load - 20.0 Grs......1282 FPS

RidgwayCO
September 6, 2009, 02:44 PM
Speer #14 has no changes from Walkalong's Speer #13. The top three powders listed for this bullet in Speer #14 are (in order) N110, 2400, and Power Pistol.

jfh
September 6, 2009, 04:20 PM
RidgewayCO is correct--I was thinking of the 38 Special and not the 357 Magnum data in Speer 14.

Jim H.

keltec
September 7, 2009, 01:10 PM
Thanks for all the feedback and advice from everybody.

My mistake was beliveing that I would achieve the FPS results that Hodgon's Basic 1998 manual stated.

In closing, my 1212 FPS avg with HS-6, and the 1513 FPS avg with H-110, are actualy not bad, with a 125gr JHP. I'm not really chasing fast FPS results, I was more concerned why my results were so low, compaired to the manual. I thought I might be doing something wrong, now I realize the manual was over inflated, and not real world results.

Once again, thanks.

nitroexpress
April 6, 2012, 07:55 PM
Hi there!

This is my 1st post, and I'm, looking for some feedback on my current (.357 mag) hand load, as I am a bit disapointed with my FPS result.

125gr Winchester JHP
10.0gr HS-6
CCI 550 sp-mag primers
Federal and RP brass

I had a chance to use a chronograph and shot 11 rounds through it, I tossed out my highest and lowest FPS result, and used the remaining 9 shots to get an average of 1212 FPS. This came out of a Taurus 608 (.357 mag) with a 6.5" barrel.

My questions are:

1. Does this seam a bit slow to you?
2. What FPS results are you getting with HS-6 shooting a 125gr bullet?

I was expecting to get close to 1500 FPS, as my 1998 Hodgon Basic Reloading Manual shows 10.0gr of HS-6 @ 1542 FPS with 34,800 CUP out of a 7" barrel.

Any thoughts or advice is welcomed. Thanks......


I tried the HS-6, 10 gr. CCI-550 with a Hornady XTP FP. They shoot real nice, not allot of muzzle jump or excessive recoil. Fast enough for me, and considering I have a few lb's of HS-6 left over from my skeet days I'm happy. Thanks for the recipe.

gamestalker
April 7, 2012, 02:39 PM
I'm a big fan of HS6 for a number of cartridges but the .357 mag. isn't one of those. If velocity and decent accuracy is your goal try some slower burning powders. 2400 will do just about everything just short of absolute full house. H110 / 296 will take them the rest of the distance to full house.

My load for 125 gr. JHP's is 20.0 gr. of H110 / 296. Velocity from my wheel guns, including a 4" 608, I'm getting 1500 + fps with a massive flame. Been shooting that load for decades, and even though the recoil and muzzle blast is extreme, I get everything I desire from a magnum wheel gun.

nitroexpress
April 8, 2012, 04:08 PM
Thanks, I realize that HS-6 is not the best answer for the 357, so many new manuals don't even mention it. Unless the pressure is decent it is a dirty deal, but at near max it is real clean and if I can get better than 38 Special +P performance I'm a happy camper. My 357 wasn't much of a shooter until I tried HS-6.

My HS-6 was paid for long ago, basically free shooting now. I'll keep checking at our local shop, they've been out of 2400 for about 4 months now. They expect some soon.

I'm also using 8 gr of HS-6 with a 158 Speer LSWC-HP and am pleased with that too.

I do wonder, in the 38 Special the ticket seems to be a 158 at 800 > 900, in the 357 the ticket seems to be a 125 at 1400 > 1600. Yet, if you shoot a 158 LSWC-HP in the 357 at 900 > 1000 nobody says, "Good Stuff, a righteous 38 Sp +P load for the 357".

JRH6856
April 8, 2012, 04:27 PM
You might try Hodgdon L'il Gun. It isn't as sensitive to downloading as H110/296, and gives slightly higher velocity at slightly lower pressures.

If you enjoyed reading about ".357 Mag w/ 125gr JHP / 10.0gr HS-6 = 1212 ft/sec?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!