My students... disappointing


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twoblink
January 19, 2003, 11:14 AM
So for the English class that I teach, the topic of discussion was (due to my recent encounter with burglary) self-defense. We talked about whether guns are good or bad, or neutral etc..

I answered all their questions about guns, etc... most were passivists, who said that as long as the thief only came to steal, then they wouldn't do anything about it. Even when I asked if the thief started hacking away at their family members, only a few said then they would try to do harm to the thief in self-defense. I don't know what kind of medicine they pump these people with that makes them so sheepled that they will just sit around and take it where the sun don't shine from the thieves... I also asked if they think, if the thief is in the house, and they came home, and caught the thief, if the thief would attempt to do bodily harm to them.. They all answered yes, they believe if caught in the act, the thief would try to kill them. Yet, all of them thought an attempt to harm the thief in self-defense was wrong :confused:

There were 5 students, and they all said that more guns would lower crime, but most also believed that there would be daily shootings over normal disputes if everybody had a gun, despite the fact that they all answered if they are armed and knows the other person is armed as well, they would probably be more polite, as risking one's life over say, who cut in line, was stupid... So they believe an armed society is a polite society, but they still refuse to accept the concept of protection themselves; even though they also admitted that cops can't protect them.

At the beginning of the class, I took a survey; 0 out of 5 said that guns were good for society.

At the end of the class, 3 out of 5 said if guns were legal in Taiwan, they'd own one, 4 out of 5 said that they know for sure that citizens with guns would reduce crime, but 5 out of 5 STILL said that if they vote, they'd vote in favor of making guns illegal.. :confused:

5 out of 5 admitted this line of thinking is without logic, but still, this is what they "believe"... :banghead:

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BerettaNut92
January 19, 2003, 11:25 AM
Give them time, you take an entirely new concept and toss it in the face of everything they've learn from both parents, teachers and their society in general.

If drugs are illegal, why are they so readily available?
If prostitution is illegal, why are they so readily available?
Drugs and prostitution will become more of a reality once they hit junior high or high school.
Heck, I didn't even know racism really existed until junior high. I never understood what all those MLK reports that we wrote were for. Happy MLK day, by the way.

Hope you're safe in Taiwan, brother.

GinSlinger
January 19, 2003, 11:26 AM
A friend of mine taught English in Mainland China after he graduated college. He ran into the same kind of "logic" from many of his students over a host of varios things. (His students were Microsoft employees :what: .) When he came back he told me that it was a great land, great people, and that we as Westerners would never, never, understand how the Asian mind works.

GinSlinger

4v50 Gary
January 19, 2003, 11:27 AM
Different culture (yes, I know you're Chinese twoblink but weren't you raised here?), different politics and different outlook. As a teacher, you plant the seed, nuture it the best you can, and hope that it generates - you revolutionary. :D

twoblink
January 19, 2003, 12:10 PM
4v50Gary,

I was "Made in Taiwan" but lived in AZ 2 years, and then the other 22 years or so, in PRK... I'm not only "American" in thinking, I'm Ayn Rand Libertarian in thinking; and so I'm more like a "Turkish Espressio" then coffee to them..

Like my friend from Singapore says; Singapore is "Low Crime" not "No Crime" and you are still responsible for your own personal well-being...

My gf will probably end up with more guns then me a la CSlinger/SheSlinger parity... She doesn't think like a Taiwanese, she is very logical (and quite tactical!!) and that makes me one of the luckiest SOB's in Taiwan...

Some say, a libertarian is nothing more then a Republican that's been mugged, I now tend to agree with that statement fully...

G-Raptor
January 19, 2003, 03:09 PM
As part of your English class, you might have them read Jeff Snyder's "A nation of cowards". It explains when burglary and robbery are about MORE then mere property.

Young people today have grown up with the idea that "private property" doesn't mean much. Who has what and where they get it is not important - except of course, the latest designer rags.

Bainx
January 19, 2003, 03:57 PM
"the brainwashing of the sheeple is almost complete".

BerettaNut92
January 19, 2003, 05:50 PM
Different culture (yes, I know you're Chinese twoblink but weren't you raised here?), different politics and different outlook. As a teacher, you plant the seed, nuture it the best you can, and hope that it generates - you revolutionary.

My dad grew up in HK then moved here. Pretty anti-Communist, but it took him a while to get used to thinking of a gun for defensive instead of sporting purposes. He's pretty pro-gun now and considered getting one. I asked him if it was worth jeopardizing his marriage by having a gun. Step mom (also Cantonese) knows I have 'em and sees it as my business (never asks about them) but doesn't want one in her house.

Both he and my grandmother would only move back to Hong Kong at gunpoint.

Some say, a libertarian is nothing more then a Republican that's been mugged, I now tend to agree with that statement fully...

I believe that a Republican is a Democrat who's been mugged, and a Libertarian is a Republican who's been arrested?



[/quote]

T.Stahl
January 19, 2003, 06:06 PM
I have a friend from mainland China. She says that most Chinese students are unable to develop an opinion of their own, they'll rather believe or adopt what they read or are told to be right.

Thankfully she's different. :) She even likes guns and shooting. :D

RANash
January 19, 2003, 07:00 PM
I believe that a Republican is a Democrat who's been mugged, and a Libertarian is a Republican who's been arrested? That's excellent! I'll be using that in the future!

BerettaNut92
January 19, 2003, 07:44 PM
I wonder if foreigners get the same idea that Americans are the same way. Heck I think by and large we're as bad.

My buddy in Korea said it's pretty much the same over there, he also teaches English to elementary-school age children.

twoblink
January 19, 2003, 10:32 PM
100% of my students have no opinion of their own; creativity is not a word that is used in the classroom...

They know they hate being scared; but they are not about to "think on their own" and challenge the system... Right Winston??

Trisha
January 20, 2003, 12:42 PM
Hmmmm...

I can't help but wonder how many of your students are the equivalent of human deadly weapons from years of studying martial arts?

Susan and I shudder when we see espoused congitive concepts parroted straight from television (along with near-slavish attention to clothing) without any hesitation - indeed, the sheeple are addicted to their programming....

Trisha

BerettaNut92
January 20, 2003, 02:41 PM
I'm addicted to THR :)

So much bad gun handling on TV :barf:

QKRTHNU
January 20, 2003, 04:50 PM
twoblink,

Buy some of the "I'm unarmed, please don't hurt me." Hats and pass them out to your students. Make them wear them everyday in your class.

And make sure to assign "The Law" for their next reading assignment.

P95Carry
January 20, 2003, 04:59 PM
These student's niƩvity is incredible ..... plus seemingly being unable to genuinely think for themselves.

The logic behind sensible gun ownership is IMO irrefutable ...... and yet here we have people who are in effect saying they are prepared to be whacked and yet don't want to harm a villain!! Staggering ..... in the extreme.

BerettaNut92
January 20, 2003, 08:02 PM
"but the criminal's life is worth as much as mine" :rolleyes:

Autolite
January 21, 2003, 04:40 AM
As I understand it, the brain has separate processes for logical and emotional thought. These processes often conflict, which is why seemingly intelligent people will make illogical decisions (based on 'feeling', 'belief' or emotion). This conflict within the mind is responsible for many of humanities problems. It goes way beyond just guns or self defence issues ...

griz
January 21, 2003, 06:17 AM
Give them some time to let the logic seep in. From a very early age kids are taught by implication that their feelings are important. Logic comes much later, admittedly for some it might be VERY much later.

With your prodding most of them will come to realize that their knee jerk reaction to guns is illogical and plain old wrong.

twoblink
January 21, 2003, 07:37 AM
I don't know how they deal with it; I mean the fact that the emotions they feel soooo override their logic yet they can live with this kind of cognitive dissonance..

Someone's sig said something about feeling that it's morally superior to have a woman strangled to death with her own pantyhose then having a dead rapist..

All human life is equal; the value of your's however diminishes drastically when you try to reduce mine... That's a concept they understand and agree with; but cannot deal with in daily life.

The fact that one of them said "If they killed my family member in front of me, then I MIGHT CONSIDER IT" is just gastly to me..

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