Kel-Tec RFB


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jwalker497
September 7, 2009, 12:47 AM
Kel-Tec RFB
I am really interested in this rifle and would like to hear form others who have shot it, how has it performed? I am also curious ho much it goes for in shops.

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Maverick223
September 7, 2009, 12:53 AM
I have heard that it is being sold at $1250.00 dealer which equates to about $1500.00USD retail. I am also curious to hear a review, but will likely hold out for a .260Rem. or .243Win. copy later on.

Found it for about $1350.00 at Able's...Kel Tec RFB (http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=114434), but they are currently out of stock. :)

Girodin
September 7, 2009, 01:04 AM
Very very few of these have been shipped. You would be very hard pressed to find one in a shop. The are rare enough many are commanding a premium above the MSRP. If production numbers ever get up the prices may come down to $1500 or so. There are some reviews on other sites. Some of those sites such as the KTOG seem to have an attitude that Kel Tec can do no wrong. The moderator there seems to come down on any critique even if it is reasonable. This tends to smother free and fair discussion so I would take certain individuals comments with a grain of salt.

but will likely hold out for a .260Rem. or .243Win. copy later on.

Most people are still holding out for a .308 version and it has been a very long time comming with many many pushbacks and delays. They still have not achieved full production. The production numbers are incredibly small right now. The target version in 308 is projected to be years away still from what I can acertain. Given the rate of progress this rifle has seen I would imagine other calibers are a long ways off if they will ever be created. A .243 might be doable form the purchasers end with out too much trouble if they really wanted to.

PTK
September 7, 2009, 01:30 AM
I've handled one, but not shot it. I'm interested in owning one some day in the future should I still own firearms at that point. :)

Maverick223
September 7, 2009, 02:06 AM
I would imagine other calibers are a long ways off if they will ever be created.I can wait...I have this long. :)

ccsniper
September 7, 2009, 02:14 AM
this has been up on here several times, they won't show up for a long time.

Wes Janson
September 7, 2009, 10:21 AM
this has been up on here several times, they won't show up for a long time.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=139031492

If you want one, go buy one.

ccsniper
September 7, 2009, 12:20 PM
wow, amazing. I seriously was beginning to think that they were just going to produce 20 or so and call it quits.

Maverick223
September 7, 2009, 01:36 PM
From what I hear (true or not) they are starting to mass produce them now, so they should hit the market in sufficient numbers before long. :)

Girodin
September 8, 2009, 03:55 AM
2k for a brand new, somewhat innovative and totally unproven design from a company whose price point is below $300 on many of their products. I'll pass. Particularly when the MSRP is far below that and all of the companies guns sell well below their MSRP.

If you have to have one now I guess $2k will get you one. Considering many of the people interested in this design have been waiting three years or so to see it come to fruition waiting a little while longer to (1) see the prices go down and (2) see if the thing is a dud or if it lives up to the hype (or where in between it is) shouldn't be that hard.

It looks like that auction closed. I guess I am not the only one that feels its not worth $2k.

Maverick223
September 8, 2009, 04:20 AM
It "closed" because it sold...doesn't mean I will be doing likewise anytime soon (for the above reasons, and I want to see if they come out with a "better" cartridge)...but may be a good review comin'...that I'd like to see. :)

PTK
September 8, 2009, 04:42 AM
I seriously was beginning to think that they were just going to produce 20 or so and call it quits.

They have at least 103 of them out - I've handled #103 (if I'm recalling right).

Girodin
September 8, 2009, 02:46 PM
I didn't note that it had sold, my mistake, but you know what PT Barnum (or David Hannum if you prefer that version of the story) said.

I might well own an RFB one day (or multiple if they make the target version). On paper I love them, and the idea of one with a suppressor just makes me giddy. For the reasons above though I think it is silly to pay inflated prices right now.

Hammerhead6814
September 8, 2009, 03:46 PM
I'm just waiting for the 22" barrel version.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 8, 2009, 04:28 PM
2k for a brand new, somewhat innovative and totally unproven design from a company whose price point is below $300 on many of their products.

Here, I fixed it for ya:

"1.5k [the actual real street price when production gets going] for a brand new, extremely innovative [forward ejection, FAL mags, bullpup, etc.] and mostly unproven design [totally unproven would imply no manufacturer testing; this one has been tested a lot in my understanding], from a company whose price point is below $300 on many of their products.

I'm just waiting for the 22" barrel version

I'm just waiting for the 22" barrel version in .260 Rem

:)

P.S. That one in that auction did not actually "sell", despite what it says. That was a back-door de facto reserve set by the seller. No bids after the seller's "sales bid" - so the seller "bought" his own gun.

Maverick223
September 8, 2009, 05:14 PM
I'm just waiting for the 22" barrel version in .260 RemDoc, We think alike...but unfortunately they sent me a E-Mail back stating "we have not made those decisions yet, sorry" to my question of... Has the new caliber offerings been decided upon for the RFB? If so when is the .260Rem. and/or the .243Win. version scheduled to begin production? If not these cartridges what (if any) have been decided upon? If none are planned, will it be possible to change the barrel with a commercially available replacement in other chamberings (with or without using barrel extensions)? Thank you in advance for the information and assistance, [Mav]....but like I said before, I can wait...at least for the Beta Testers to give a review. :D
P.S. That one in that auction did not actually "sell", despite what it says. That was a back-door de facto reserve set by the seller. No bids after the seller's "sales bid" - so the seller "bought" his own gun.He he, good...guess there was no sucker born that minute. :)

Glamdring
September 8, 2009, 05:15 PM
I expect Kel Tec pistols to need a little attention. But they have the best customer service I have ever seen in any field!!!

If you buy and have a problem they will take care of you.

I had both P11 & P32 sold them when I replaced them with J frame revolvers, and the j frames will go when I switch to Ruger's LCR,

I had at least 3 or 4 buddies that got P32 after they saw mine, I had one of the very first ones in my 1/4 of the state. Couple of those people went to P3AT's when they came out. They have all been very happy.

The RFB is on my list of rifles to test drive.

Wes Janson
September 8, 2009, 08:29 PM
Quote:
P.S. That one in that auction did not actually "sell", despite what it says. That was a back-door de facto reserve set by the seller. No bids after the seller's "sales bid" - so the seller "bought" his own gun.

He he, good...guess there was no sucker born that minute.

On what basis is there to say that the seller bid on their own auction?

Remember, because the auction sold the seller now has to pay Gunbroker a fee. Had there been no bids it would have been re-listed for free. It wouldn't make sense to bid on your own item and thus just double the amount of money you have to pay to Gunbroker. I have no doubt that it was a legitimate bid by a legitimate buyer.

Especially seeing as how $2k is the lowest price RFBs have ever sold for on Gunbroker (with the one exception of the guy who posted one with a Buy It Now of $1600, which sold in 7 minutes). So obviously the market seems to be there.

Pony Express
September 9, 2009, 05:02 PM
No thanks,
If i want a semi-auto .308 ill stick to the AR-10. maybe if they prove to be tough as nails, in a couple years.

however, the concept is interesting, and i've never handled a true bullpup before

Maverick223
September 9, 2009, 07:07 PM
You have to be careful with those "artificial" bullpups. :neener:

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
September 9, 2009, 08:25 PM
Remember, because the auction sold the seller now has to pay Gunbroker a fee. Had there been no bids it would have been re-listed for free. It wouldn't make sense to bid on your own item and thus just double the amount of money you have to pay to Gunbroker. I have no doubt that it was a legitimate bid by a legitimate buyer.

No, sir, I do not think you're correct (but you may be). Yes, they have to pay a fee, but yes, they still do it all the time, constantly - almost every gun auction going has the "fake reserve" price, where the buyer (under a different account) bids on it, to establish a de facto reserve. The buyer didn't want to get less than $2k, but put $1,999 to make it sound better. The reason they do this is so that they can CALL IT a "no reserve" auction, however fraudulent that may be to call it that. I think the sellers have decided that the frenzy / excitement which is worked up among the gullible from calling it technically a "no reserve" auction is likely to lead to them getting insane prices occasionally, and so that it's well worth the cost in the "sell fee", which they just chalk up to a "re-listing fee". You just cannot tell me that 50 auctions in a row for the exact same NIB gun "X", like you see all the time, ALL of which have the exact same first bid of say, $799.99, AND which also happens to be the exact same as the buy it now price on all of them, are legitimate bids and not this extremely common practice of fake bids by sellers, for them to be able to "have their cake and eat it too" - they like to be able to HAVE an actual reserve price, and yet CALL IT a "no reserve" - apparently worth the sale fee. Either that, or there's an even HIGHER fee charged by the site to actually make it a reserve auction. Or both, in some combination.

Anyhoo, I do just have this thing for bullpups that I cannot seem to shake. This one in .308 or .260, and an MSAR MCS in 9mm are probably both in my future. Possibly in 10mm. They will go nicely with the 17S. :) In fact the RFB will substitute-satisfy my urge for an FS2000, since it has the forward eject. :p

Wes Janson
September 9, 2009, 11:23 PM
No, sir, I do not think you're correct (but you may be). Yes, they have to pay a fee, but yes, they still do it all the time, constantly - almost every gun auction going has the "fake reserve" price, where the buyer (under a different account) bids on it, to establish a de facto reserve. The buyer didn't want to get less than $2k, but put $1,999 to make it sound better. The reason they do this is so that they can CALL IT a "no reserve" auction, however fraudulent that may be to call it that. I think the sellers have decided that the frenzy / excitement which is worked up among the gullible from calling it technically a "no reserve" auction is likely to lead to them getting insane prices occasionally, and so that it's well worth the cost in the "sell fee", which they just chalk up to a "re-listing fee". You just cannot tell me that 50 auctions in a row for the exact same NIB gun "X", like you see all the time, ALL of which have the exact same first bid of say, $799.99, AND which also happens to be the exact same as the buy it now price on all of them, are legitimate bids and not this extremely common practice of fake bids by sellers, for them to be able to "have their cake and eat it too" - they like to be able to HAVE an actual reserve price, and yet CALL IT a "no reserve" - apparently worth the sale fee. Either that, or there's an even HIGHER fee charged by the site to actually make it a reserve auction. Or both, in some combination.

I don't buy it.

If I were a seller, who for some reason was unwilling to list an actual reserve price, there's a much easier solution.

Set my opening bid at $1, set Buy It Now at whatever I'd ideally like to receive, and then let the auction run. There will be an inevitable bidding frenzy.

On the last day of the auction, if the price hasn't reached my invisible reserve, then use my fake account to bid up to that point. If the next-highest bidder follows along, then great. Otherwise I re-list.

Starting my opening bid at $799, placing one bid for $799, and then letting it expire makes no sense at all, if that's what you're suggesting. If their opening bid and their Buy It Now price are the same, then obviously they're willing to sell at that price point (since at any given moment someone could accept a legally binding contract by hitting the Buy It Now button and committing to that price). If people are bidding at the opening price of $799 instead of hitting Buy It Now for $800, it's because they're idiots, not because it's a scam.

Sorry, but the auctions you see for $799 opening bid and $799 Buy It Now are legitimate. That auction began at $1999, received one bid, and ended at $1999. There's nothing unusual, untoward, or illegitimate about it. $2000 is the current market price for an RFB as has been shown over the past half-dozen auctions (every one of which by a different seller, I might add).

Maverick223
September 9, 2009, 11:47 PM
They will go nicely with the 17SDoc, you have a M17S? That is bar none my favorite rifle (other than those that have sentimental value). Did you see my thread of upgrades that I posted a while back...takes out nearly all of the "flaws" that I have found...still need to make the trigger break a little cleaner but that is about it. Will link upon request or PM. :)

Mainsail
October 15, 2009, 09:38 PM
OK. my dealer has one of these in .308 for ~$1200 and it looks pretty darn interesting. Does anyone have any actual experience with them?

Maverick223
October 15, 2009, 09:41 PM
No, we were all waiting for you to buy it and give us a review. ;)

Have you pulled the trigger on the one that you saw in the store? If so, how was it? I ave heard that they are pretty good, but I believe that was the target model, not the 18" variant. :)

Mainsail
October 15, 2009, 10:06 PM
The one I pulled was pretty darn good actually. The balance was excellent too. I was hoping someone that owned one would chime in with his or her opinion. ~$1200 is good but there's no sights on the gun, so an optic will add a few $$$$ to the end price.

Maverick223
October 15, 2009, 10:30 PM
I am very interested in one, but I am willing to wait for a review first. I really would rather have one in .260Rem. if they will ever start making the darn things. :)

JShirley
October 15, 2009, 10:44 PM
I'd love a 24" version.

Hammerhead6814
October 15, 2009, 10:57 PM
I'll wait for the 24" sporter version.

I can't figure out what on earth is taking them so long to churn these out. There is a clear demand for the rifle, and even more people are waiting for the 24" and 32" versions in .308. With all the demand, all the hype, you'd think they'd be making them as fast as possible.

SaMx
October 15, 2009, 11:01 PM
From what I understand they're having a hard time getting barrel blanks

That's also why they only have the 18" model out right now.

from their website
Q2 for Kel-Tec has been quite busy and we have many good things to announce!

-We are expecting to break ground in early Q3 on our new facility. This new building will mainly be used to store excess materials and make room for new CNC machines. It will also house our new R&D lab.
-Three more Mazak Horizontal Machining Centers are slated to arrive early next quarter to be used mainly for the milling of RFB parts.
-We are also attempting to expand our in-house barrel production due to the unpredictable nature of outside suppliers. This new expansion is expected to increase rifle production significantly.
-RFB production is still in its early stages: rifles are being shipped every week but not in full production batch numbers as of yet.

Maverick223
October 15, 2009, 11:02 PM
I'm right there with you guys on the 24" sporter variant...if they ever decide to make one. I wish they would offer the target trigger on the other versions as well, 32" is a little on the long/heavy side, even if it is a bullpup. :)

Wes Janson
October 16, 2009, 01:19 AM
OK. my dealer has one of these in .308 for ~$1200 and it looks pretty darn interesting. Does anyone have any actual experience with them?

I'd pay $1200 in a femtosecond, dead seriously. You'd be incredibly foolish not to buy one at that price, particularly since you could turn it around on Gunbroker for $600-800 profit in a matter of minutes.

tkopp
October 16, 2009, 02:31 AM
Our local shop's only had one in. They sold it sight unseen without ever displaying it for $2200.

nwilliams
October 16, 2009, 02:47 AM
OK. my dealer has one of these in .308 for ~$1200 and it looks pretty darn interesting.

The only two on gunbroker right now are both starting at almost $2300

I would buy one for $1200 without thinking twice! Not just because I want one but because if it turns out to not to be what I expect I could easily resell and probably make a profit doing so.

In the past 90 days a number of them have sold on gunbroker and the cheapest one went for $1600 all the others sold for around $2k or more.

armoredman
October 16, 2009, 04:55 AM
I'd buy one if I had the money, very interested in it.

Mainsail
October 16, 2009, 01:45 PM
As I said, I like the rifle, but......

Should I spend $300 more for a mid-grade new M1A (already has fixed sights at least)......

And besides, what niche does this rifle fill? I tend to be very utilitarian in my firearms purchases so this gun needs to fill a space in more than just the safe. I currently have an SKS as an all around back-up, A Mossberg 590A1 for close in work, an AR for short to medium range, but nothing in a serious caliber like a .308, in fact .308 is my next planned purchase. This .308 however, is an 18' barreled rifle and from what I've read the barrel isn't going to be a quick swap if I later want a longer one. As mentioned earlier, this one still needs about $600 or so in optics (the rail is too short for fixed sights IMO) before it's even functional.

There's a lot of cool factor but that ain't chump change.

The rifle is there, I could go down there, buy it, and bring it home this afternoon.....but I'm still on the fence.

http://www.policemag.com/_Images/articles/M_LG_KelTec.jpg

JShirley
October 16, 2009, 05:15 PM
Mainsail, there is no "should" here. Firearms are important not only for what they actually do, but for how we feel about them.

I will say, there are thousands of shooters in the U.S. who would jump at a $1200 RFB. Hell, I'm cash-poor right now, but if I lived in the same area, I'd either be in there with some firearms, trying to make a deal, or trying to sell some stuff to come up with the scratch.

You might perhaps consider that this is a brand-new, late 20th Century design. Without trying to start another flame war, the M1A is no more advanced in design than the M1918 BAR (http://www.ww2gyrene.org/weapons_BAR.htm)- a 90 year-old weapon. You could certainly buy an M1A and trick it out as you wish. Personally, the M1A is a rifle I'd go for if I just wanted to use iron sights. The RFB, on the other hand, is a new, modern modular design, made to easily install optic sights and other accessories deemed useful on today's defensive rifles and carbines.

an AR for short to medium range, but nothing in a serious caliber like a .308

Virtually all of the rifles and carbines fielded by the U.S. today are in 5.56x45mm. If it's serving effectively, I'd think that makes it serious. Your AR actually covers the same effective engagement range as an M1A: you really just have to consider your priorities. Here's an article by Zak (http://demigodllc.com/articles/fighting-carbine-optics-for-the-ar-15/) that might help you think about sighting systems, and the role you envision for your next rifle or carbine.

John

armoredman
October 16, 2009, 05:44 PM
My reasons are simple - WANNA!

Maverick223
October 16, 2009, 09:17 PM
My reasons are simple - WANNA!Me too...though I will likely drag it into the woods to see how it does...I would say that it should make a fine deer rifle (short, relatively lightweight, touted as accurate), even if you get some funny looks. :)

JShirley
October 16, 2009, 10:46 PM
I'd prefer the 24", just for the reduced blast, if nothing else.

Wes Janson
October 17, 2009, 03:30 AM
As I said, I like the rifle, but......

Should I spend $300 more for a mid-grade new M1A (already has fixed sights at least)......

And besides, what niche does this rifle fill? I tend to be very utilitarian in my firearms purchases so this gun needs to fill a space in more than just the safe. I currently have an SKS as an all around back-up, A Mossberg 590A1 for close in work, an AR for short to medium range, but nothing in a serious caliber like a .308, in fact .308 is my next planned purchase. This .308 however, is an 18' barreled rifle and from what I've read the barrel isn't going to be a quick swap if I later want a longer one. As mentioned earlier, this one still needs about $600 or so in optics (the rail is too short for fixed sights IMO) before it's even functional.

There's a lot of cool factor but that ain't chump change.

The rifle is there, I could go down there, buy it, and bring it home this afternoon.....but I'm still on the fence.


Then don't buy it.

I guarantee there's at least one or two people in your area who are desperately desiring a 7.62x51 ambidextrous bullpup, who would really appreciate owning that rifle. They'd be in shock at the very concept of stopping to debate whether or not to buy the rifle that exact instant. Let one of them have it.

Today I finally got my RFB, and it's truly a thing of beauty.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/WesJanson/RFB/rfb_med.jpg

JShirley
October 17, 2009, 10:00 AM
Congratulations! :D

Though I'm planning on selling my uber-FAL, I don't plan on getting rid of most of my new, paper-wrapped metric mags! :D

Maverick223
October 17, 2009, 11:22 AM
Wes, I think most of us here would greatly appreciate a good, detailed, unbiased (unlike the gun rag reviews), thorough review on the new rifle. ;)

Wes Janson
October 17, 2009, 12:02 PM
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1255758593

I'm going to hopefully try to shoot a few more groups today, and then try it in competition tomorrow.

Maverick223
October 17, 2009, 02:05 PM
Thank you for the review, I look forward to hearing more. :)

Mainsail
October 17, 2009, 08:28 PM
I got it. It'll sit until I make an optics decision but I got it. My serial number says mine is only eight rifles newer than Wes Janson's.

junyo
October 17, 2009, 08:50 PM
I got it. It'll sit until I make an optics decision but I got it. My serial number says mine is only eight rifles newer than Wes Janson's.
Which isn't surprising since they've only made a handful. Couple hundred, at the outside?

For over two years I've tried to explain, convince, enlighten the non-believers who couldn't understand what it meant to hold an RFB in your hands and shoot it.It's a rifle, not a calling to the priesthood.

There are apparently lots of people that will wait indefinitely for Keltec to sort out their stuff, or allow themselves to get price gouged. I hope for the sake of the RFB there are enough of them to keep it going, and hopefully it becomes more than a collector's piece.

shotgunjoel
October 17, 2009, 09:18 PM
You have to be careful with those "artificial" bullpups.
Like an SKS in a bullpup stock? or similar. I wouldn't consider that a true bullpup.

I'd pay $1200 in a femtosecond, dead seriously. You'd be incredibly foolish not to buy one at that price, particularly since you could turn it around on Gunbroker for $600-800 profit in a matter of minutes.
That would be illegal.

Wes Janson
October 18, 2009, 12:30 AM
Which isn't surprising since they've only made a handful. Couple hundred, at the outside?

Right now it seems safe to say the number is under 200.

It's a rifle, not a calling to the priesthood.

There are apparently lots of people that will wait indefinitely for Keltec to sort out their stuff, or allow themselves to get price gouged. I hope for the sake of the RFB there are enough of them to keep it going, and hopefully it becomes more than a collector's piece.


Most people have the impression that Kel-Tec is junk, on par with Hi-Points. Trying to make people understand that Kel-Tec has finally come out with a rifle that really is a major step forward is extremely difficult, until they actually handle one and see how it operates.

I like different rifles, and I like unique and/or specialized designs. In the modern marketplace, there's only half a dozen or so basic EBRs in production, and very few companies show any interest in actually innovating. There's any number of proven, pre-existing designs floating around from history or other parts of the world that simply haven't been built because no one's shown the interest in striking out into new commercial territory and building them for the public. Kel-Tec has come out with the world's first production 7.62x51 bullpup rifle, and improved in leaps and bounds over pre-existing similar designs. That's a huge, huge, huge accomplishment in my book, and one that happens far too rarely.

That would be illegal.

Please cite the relevant ATF ruling declaring it illegal to purchase a firearm and then decide to sell it later for a profit. Thank you.

nwilliams
October 18, 2009, 12:43 AM
I'd pay $1200 in a femtosecond, dead seriously. You'd be incredibly foolish not to buy one at that price, particularly since you could turn it around on Gunbroker for $600-800 profit in a matter of minutes.

That would be illegal.

Please cite the relevant ATF ruling declaring it illegal to purchase a firearm and then decide to sell it later for a profit. Thank you.


It is considered a crime to buy a gun with sole intention of reselling it. However people do it all the time on auction sites like gunbroker and unless the BATF can prove that you purchased the gun with the sole intention of reselling it you are simply doing a private sale, which is still legal in most places. Anyone can buy a gun and decide even a week later that they don't like it and sell it, however buying a gun just to resell it makes you a dealer without an FFL. I think, maybe I'm wrong.

Best to play it safe and buy it because you want it and sell it because you don't want it, not because you want to profit off selling it. besides buying a gun simply to turn a profit means that you are depriving someone who may actually really want the gun from having it at a decent price.

General Geoff
October 18, 2009, 01:19 AM
the RFB looks pretty cool. I hope Kel Tec can ramp up production to compete against M14 and AR10 style rifles in the American private small arms market. :)




As an aside, what kind of muzzle velocities could you expect from standard 7.62x51mm 147gr ball, out of a 32" barrel?

Hammerhead6814
October 18, 2009, 01:46 AM
Sent a message to Kel-Tec regarding the Sporter version.

Exact quote:

"sometime next year, thanks"

We must be annoying the hell out of them.

General Geoff
October 18, 2009, 01:48 AM
I think "annoying" is a strong word. I'm sure Kel Tec wants to sell us these rifles, the issue is working out the kinks and ramping up production. :)

Mainsail
October 18, 2009, 01:54 AM
After playing with it awhile I like this rifle. The trigger is really good, WAY better than one would expect from a bullpup. I'm leaning towards the EoTech with the BDC for .308 right now.

nwilliams
October 18, 2009, 03:30 AM
After playing with it awhile I like this rifle. The trigger is really good, WAY better than one would expect from a bullpup. I'm leaning towards the EoTech with the BDC for .308 right now.

You should start a new thread with some pics of your new gun! You are probably on of the few members here that actually owns one of these.

I'm serious start a "new gun" thread and post some pics and a when you have one a range report!!!

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
October 18, 2009, 11:16 AM
You should start a new thread with some pics of your new gun! You are probably on of the few members here that actually owns one of these.

I'm serious start a "new gun" thread and post some pics and a when you have one a range report!!!

Yeah, +1 to that. This is one of 3 vaporware guns that are on the top of my must-have list!

Maverick223
October 18, 2009, 05:46 PM
Like an SKS in a bullpup stock? or similar. I wouldn't consider that a true bullpup.I agree, they are too much of a compromise to be useful and/or solidly built. All of the bullpups that I have found to be well-designed and constructed have been designed as a bullpup from its inception.

We must be annoying the hell out of them.Oh, poor whittle customer service guy...at least if we show interest they are less likely to scrap the other variants. :D

The trigger is really good, WAY better than one would expect from a bullpup.Good to know, that is what I have heard. That is the only real issue that I have with my M17 right now. I smoothed out the connecting bar groove a couple days ago, but still need to remove the trigger group and file the hooks a bit. :)

Mainsail
October 19, 2009, 05:13 PM
Well with the agonizing about buy-it-don't-buy-it over, the agonizing about my optics choices begins. On the one hand, an EoTech or Aimpoint with or without a magnifier is practical considering it has an 18" barrel (think; maneuverability) and I have no idea about how accurate the thing may or may not be. I'm leaning strongly in this direction since that's really the purpose of this type of short OAL rifle. EoTech makes a AA powered holo sight just for the .308.

Still, there is a part of me that wants to put a good long range tactical scope up there on the rail...

Maverick223
October 19, 2009, 05:25 PM
I would go with a moderate range optic, in the 4-12ish magnification range (though I will likely be waiting for the 24"+ variant). :)

Mainsail
October 26, 2009, 08:25 PM
I went with the TA55A with the same reticule my AR has.

http://img.geocaching.com/user/707f49fe-d1be-48d0-8743-0682ee8e8549.jpg

http://img.geocaching.com/user/6459d134-2e21-4a16-9ff3-a4a073979ffc.jpg

http://img.geocaching.com/user/f209436e-b455-488f-9063-67239fbe3f26.jpg

http://img.geocaching.com/user/0ac0f5d7-7343-4350-92ad-ef1af5461b7f.jpg

Mainsail
November 1, 2009, 07:52 PM
It was 60 degrees and sunny today so I took the RFB out for its maiden voyage. I have to say, I’m very impressed with this rifle! I put 160 rounds through altogether, 100 Magtechs, 40 surplus target ammo, and 20 Remington. Except for one failure-to-feed it ran perfectly. I’m still not sure what might have happened but it never repeated itself. Recoil was not the heavy punch I was expecting, just a firm push. I had some problems with the scope, which may very well have been partly me, but I need to call Trijicon tomorrow because I couldn’t raise the reticule high enough to zero it. Overall I’m VERY pleased with the gun. It got a bit of attention at the range, several people asking either what it was or where the heck I managed to find one.

General Geoff
November 1, 2009, 08:24 PM
Except for one failure-to-feed it ran perfectly.

Curious, how long did it take you to figure out the malfunction and clear it?

Girodin
November 1, 2009, 09:37 PM
You are probably on of the few members here that actually owns one of these.

Probably one of the few to ever see or touch one. Please shoot one for groups. I have not been able to find a solid report on the things accuracy.

Maverick223
November 1, 2009, 09:51 PM
Probably one of the few to [ever] see or touch one. Please shoot one for groups. I have not been able to find a solid report on the things accuracy.+1, I too want to see what it can do. :)

leadcounsel
December 8, 2009, 12:58 AM
How is the trigger on the RFB?

jerkface11
December 8, 2009, 01:02 AM
So what kind of groups does it shoot?

Maverick223
December 8, 2009, 01:45 AM
So what kind of groups does it shoot?+1, bout time for an update.

:)

BrianB
December 8, 2009, 02:04 AM
Found this by Googling "RFB rifle group range report"

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1258330888/5

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