at the shooting range i noticed something


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1shot3kills
September 7, 2009, 04:50 PM
when i was at a gun range yesterday i noticed something that bothers me and i want to know others opinion.when there is a group of shooters all shooting together at multiple benches and shooting each others guns that when they pass the gun from one person to another they would just place the gun on safety.me personally will unload the gun and leave action open when i pass a weapon from person to person,to me this seems safer to the shooters and others around.i have never trusted a sefety,even though the safety may work just fine.this holds true even when i am hunting.when i get in a vehicle(like the truck at the ranch,if im in a situation like hog hunting where we get in the truck and have the clip in the gun for conveniance the chamber is cleared my pulling the action a few times and visually checking then with the action closed i insert the clipand do not chamber the first round,since i do not let let handle it after that this to me is safe.what do others do?

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russ69
September 7, 2009, 04:53 PM
I just toss the loaded gun to my buddy, just like in Nam!

Thanx, Russ

taliv
September 7, 2009, 04:58 PM
when they're new shooters that i suspect aren't familiar with the action of whatever gun i'm loaning them, i usually hand them a loaded gun with it on safe

brboyer
September 7, 2009, 04:58 PM
Personally, I never (well, very rarely) hand/take a loaded gun to/from someone, or leave it on a counter/bench/whatever.

Exceptions:
While hunting: Going over under fences with my hunting buddy, we won't unload the rifle/shotgun.

Working as an RO: Have had to take some one's loaded gun away from them for safety reasons or helping out a new shooter.

cuervo
September 7, 2009, 05:45 PM
IMO, the more important thing would be that the muzzles are still pointed down range when this is happening.

I've chambered a round for someone before and handed them the pistol to shoot, but handed it "sideways" so that the muzzle was always down range.

New shooters tend to want to ease the slide down, rather than just releasing it, and then have the resulting issue of the pistol not firing, having to empty the chamber, etc. When I hand them one ready to go, they know it's ready to go and can concentrate on firing it.

If I'm with a more experienced shooter, he will probably know what to do from the start and load his own magazine and chamber a round.

bigalexe
September 7, 2009, 05:59 PM
Here is what I do and feel comfortable with.

-If I am handing off the weapon to another shooter at another bench it gets unloaded, safety on, and shown clear. If there is a magazine I eject it and hand it over separately. The same thing goes if I am getting up from my bench and another person is not immediately sitting down to use the gun.
-If I am setting up a gun, demonstrating, or otherwise letting someone use a gun on the same bench I am a bit more relaxed. I generally make sure the gun is not chambered, and leave it on safe. The magazine can stay attached and all the next shooter needs to do is close the action (depending on what kind of firearm it is) and release the safety. This is ONLY done when I am constantly communicating with the person and they have seen me do everything.

usmarine0352_2005
September 7, 2009, 06:06 PM
.

I just toss the loaded gun to my buddy, just like in Nam!




Hahahahahaha

.

warman
September 7, 2009, 06:47 PM
Why couldnt they lay the gun down on safe at the station it was on and the person move to the gun?

PandaBearBG
September 7, 2009, 08:23 PM
You gotta remember not everyone who owns a gun holds it in a high standard, nor do they know the basic firearm safety rules and firearm common sense. How many times have you seen some young bucks, unload an entire mag in a pray and spray bump fire, or the "sideways gangsta" shots? Or they may just be very new to firearms and no one ever told them about basic range safety. If you see something unsafe, you should say something. You don't have to be condensending or harsh about it, just a "Hey fellas, you might wanna clear those weapons first before passing it on." Of course you may be ignored or jeered, but it can't hurt. Not every gun owner is a responsible gun owner, all they need is a little info.

Mags
September 7, 2009, 08:24 PM
Who cares as long as muzzle discipline is followed.

DasFriek
September 7, 2009, 08:36 PM
I dont know where it started for me,it was a rule somewhere i picked up wich is ok with me.I never set a loaded gun down on the bench,its mag is dropped and locked open than sat down.I think this is a range rule at a place i shoot at.
I dont much shoot with others,but if i did id hand them a gun pointed safley down range with the saftey on.I have no issues like that since i carry locked and loaded all day anyhow.
Unloading and locking open before handing them a weapon doesnt hurt anything and only makes things safer,so keep doing it if you feel better doing that.

I never will say anyone is dumb or lame when they go the extra mile to do something safer when it comes to guns.

1shot3kills
September 7, 2009, 08:52 PM
quote:Who cares as long as muzzle discipline is followed.


i dont want to be around you at the range,what about accidental fire resulting in a riccocet(dont know how to spell,dont feel like looking neither)

Mags
September 7, 2009, 09:45 PM
I am sorry but it doesn't make sense to me if I am shooting at my station at my target why would I want someone to walk over to my station and shoot at my target which I pay close attention to the results of. So when a friend or fellow shooter wants to try out that new firearm I make it ready place it on safe and hand it to him with the muzzle pointed down range. So this i dont want to be around you at the range,what about accidental fire resulting in a riccocet is no big deal. Hell I keep a Glock with no safety and one in the pipe next to my damn kidney so at the range with the safety on and strict muzzle discipline I don't see a problem handing a gun to a neigboring shooter. So for those of you who believe guns just go off all the time and kill people maybe you should find another hobby maybe knitting oh wait you might poke yopurself with a needle that might be too dangerous as well.

TX1911fan
September 7, 2009, 09:47 PM
I don't think it's too big a deal. I'm more offended by people who refuse to use spaces after periods and commas.

RobMoore
September 7, 2009, 09:58 PM
On the issue of safety, you can get pretty ridiculous on the topic and go to extremes, you can be blatantly unsafe, or you can just get the job done.

If the muzzle stayed in a safe direction, I'd have no problem with the passing of guns between hands even if loaded. I'm in the "just get the job done" camp. The purpose of gun safety is to prevent people from getting hurt and property from getting damaged. Neither of those two things happened? Job done.

1shot3kills
September 7, 2009, 10:10 PM
quote:Hell I keep a Glock with no safety and one in the pipe next to my damn kidney so at the range with the safety on and strict muzzle discipline I don't see a problem handing a gun to a neigboring shooter. So for those of you who believe guns just go off all the time and kill people maybe you should find another hobby maybe knitting oh wait you might poke yopurself with a needle that might be too dangerous as well.

the glock on your hip does have a safety,the trigger has a built in safety,and i have known 2 people killed by a gun that they thought was on safety,and seen 3 people hit by riccochets at a gun range.you never know strangers at thr gun range and their knowledge of proper handling of firearms.enough said.


quote:I don't think it's too big a deal. I'm more offended by people who refuse to use spaces after periods and commas.

nothingismoreidioticthanagrammercommandoonathreadaboutgunsafety.......now figuire that sentence out,offense will be there.

desidog
September 7, 2009, 10:12 PM
quote:Who cares as long as muzzle discipline is followed.

i dont want to be around you at the range,what about accidental fire resulting in a riccocet(dont know how to spell,dont feel like looking neither)

I've seen more people at ranges set a gun down and have the bolt or slide release and surprise them (12+) than i have accidental discharges when passing cocked and locked weapons (never). Muzzle control is paramount.

If one of those guys was sweeping with the (loaded) gun....then its time to talk.

Also, poor spelling and/or grammar can be just as deadly...to the English language!:D Highlight the questionable word and right-click, for correct spelling options, or highlight the word and push F7.

Mags
September 7, 2009, 10:13 PM
Look, I will put it this way youy can never be to safe but to be an jerk about something that was in fact safe even though it did not meet your elitist standards is just plain dumb.

General Geoff
September 7, 2009, 10:29 PM
Makes little difference to me, since my friends and I assume all guns are always loaded anyway.

ezypikns
September 7, 2009, 10:46 PM
is to lay the weapon down with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, action open, magazine removed, and let the other person pick it up. Whereupon they check to see if the weapon is loaded, and if not, proceed with whatever action they intend with the weapon.

I may be an Old Maid about safety, but most Old Maids usually die naturally, in bed.

MrCleanOK
September 7, 2009, 11:30 PM
I make a judgement call and hand a person a firearm in the condition in which I think it is most safe and practical. That might be completely unloaded. That may be loaded and on safe. That may be in pieces. All depends on the situation.

1shot3kills
September 7, 2009, 11:39 PM
safety in public areas and private areas with guns is the best way to firearms.the real mags,who is being the jerk?i dont assume anything when it comes to firearms,and hope when me and my children are at the range,and im teaching them proper firearm use and safety,that there is not someone there like you next to use to shorten our stay,or to accendentaly mis fire a weapon and injure them or someone else.in other words the only thing i dont care about is if you or one of your beer drinking buddies accidently shoot each other in the privacy of your home or property,that is your right.but dont do it in a public place where others might see,or others might get hurt.there is stupidity that comes from a non caring atttitude,and stupidity that comes from not knowing.you say you carry a concealed handgun,that licenced priviledge cames from a trust,the trust that you will be safe and responsible,so tell me which stupid you are,being that you took the class and got the priviledge,so im gonna rule out the stupidity that comes from not knowing.and when im teaching my children gun safety it wont be by text message,so give the grammer police a coffee and doughnut break.this whas a thread concerning firearm safety grammer should not even be a issue.if you wanna discuss spelling and punctuation correctness find a grammer fourum.the guy who said said that he tosses it to his buddy just like in nam was funny,i got a good laugh out of it,but i know he probably was joking and he probably practices safety without even having to think about it.

just out of curiosuty what are procedures followed in U.S military training?

9MMare
September 7, 2009, 11:53 PM
is to lay the weapon down with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, action open, magazine removed, and let the other person pick it up. Whereupon they check to see if the weapon is loaded, and if not, proceed with whatever action they intend with the weapon.

I may be an Old Maid about safety, but most Old Maids usually die naturally, in bed.

This is the way I was taught and it became a habit inside a month. Maybe because we focused on doing this before we ever took a shot.

ccsniper
September 8, 2009, 12:00 AM
a friend of mine always says there is no better safety than the one between your ears. as long as they don't sweep people and act ignorant with firearms, I don't care loaded/unloaded. me and my friends do that quite often.

ThrottleJockey72
September 8, 2009, 12:55 AM
Empty chamber, open action. ALWAYS! No exceptions, except as stated above, about crossing a fence or downed tree when hunting.......Muzzle control is key, but only one part of the equation.

jakemccoy
September 8, 2009, 01:27 AM
Handing a gun over to another person while the gun is on safety doesn't bother me too much. As long as fingers are off triggers and muzzles are pointed downrange, then I'm fine.

N003k
September 8, 2009, 01:39 AM
Er....

Rule 1: All guns are always loaded, treat them as such....sounds like they did? Safety on, barrel pointed down range...

Rule 2: Never let the muzzle cover anything you're not willing to destroy....kept it down range or pointed at some wood between the stations? Followed...

Rule 3: Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire....Kept their fingers off the trigger? Each held the gun by the stock? If so, no problem there.

Rule 4: Be aware of your target and what's beyond it....It was pointed down range the whole time, right? If so, followed, and not a concern.

It sounds like all 4 rules were followed...and I really don't see a major concern as long as all 4 ARE followed.

As for ricochets...how the hell are ya gonna make sure your rounds don't ricochet during REGULAR fire? I've got hit by a deformed 9mm bullet at the range once...and no one was doing anything stupid then. (Small 14 stall range, me and my guests had 2 to ourselves, and only 3 other people on the range...I was taking a break at the time...)

If we've gotta worry about how to 100% prevent ricochets off objects we can't see down range, well....I think we'd all better stop shooting lol.

Gunfighter123
September 8, 2009, 02:52 AM
Handing a gun over to another person while the gun is on safety doesn't bother me too much. As long as fingers are off triggers and muzzles are pointed downrange, then I'm fine.

I am in agreement with jakemccoy

Hokkmike
September 8, 2009, 10:04 AM
If they are pointed downrange and the range is red or closed to walkers it is OK.

eatont9999
September 8, 2009, 10:29 AM
I generally unload the gun and lock the slide back or leave the bolt open. I don't think I have ever handed some one a loaded gun without at least the safety being on. The two rules I always obey when handling a gun in public or around others is muzzle direction and keep your booger hooks off the boom switch. I also tell new shooters that.

When instructing a new shooter, the first thing I do with ANY firearm is make sure they know how to use it and what to do as far as safety goes. I go from loading a revolver to how the safeties on a 1911 work. It means more to a new shooter if they have shot a kind of gun and know HOW to use it if they need to.

Mags
September 8, 2009, 11:26 AM
just out of curiosuty what are procedures followed in U.S military training? Uh... When we are on the firing line during training we don't usually hand guns to eachother. If we have a malfunction we do a SPORTS drill and if that doesn't work we ground the weapon and raise our hand for an instuctor to come by. I don't see why you think some guys on a firing line with the same weapon would be passing a gun to their buddy.

RainDodger
September 8, 2009, 12:06 PM
Sorry. There is no judgement call here. You never move a gun to another firing position with a closed action. You don't hand a gun to someone else with a closed action or latched cylinder.

If you transfer a gun to someone else, you open the action.

Mags
September 8, 2009, 01:14 PM
Sorry. There is no judgement call here. You never move a gun to another firing position with a closed action. You don't hand a gun to someone else with a closed action or latched cylinder. At a gun store definetly, at a range never. Don't you know the 4 rules? I don't see make sure the gun is clear as one of the rules.

Kindrox
September 8, 2009, 03:07 PM
Personally I only move unloaded/locked open guns from station to station. I don't think I'd be bothered by others though as long as as the gun stays in a safe direction. If someone moving a loaded gun from station to station had an AD, would the gun still be pointed in a safe direction after the first shot?

I notice that when moving a gun from station to station it can be hard to maintain a firm grip on a gun when moving sideways and around the station barriers.

Robert
September 8, 2009, 03:16 PM
I guess for me it all depends on the level of the shooter I am handing something to. My best friend with 3 tours of duty can do as he please with a firearm as I trust him with my life. A brand new shooter I will unload the weapon and teach them how the action works, how to load and how to make clear.

SteveCase
September 8, 2009, 03:38 PM
I do the same thing that Taliv does, usally the people I take along don't know how to load the firearms or even work the action, so what I do is load it and chamber it and put it on the bench for a handgun, then let them pick it up or for a rifle I hold it high up the stock and on the butt of the gun and make them put there hands right next to mine. And you should always here a thank you before you let go of the gun, signals they are ready to take it from you.

Elbert P . Suggins
September 8, 2009, 03:42 PM
Always assume the gun is loaded but as long as the muzzle is downrange and the safety is on that is enough. Anything else is an unloaded gun which is totally worthless!

ny32182
September 8, 2009, 03:54 PM
As long as the muzzle stays downrange, I could care less if it is loaded/unloaded/saftey on/off, whatever.

I wouldn't see a point in dropping a mag/ejecting a round/fiddling with safeties just to hand a gun to a buddy at the range. As long as everyone knows to keep their finger off the trigger, guns are going to magically discharge themselves.

Art Eatman
September 8, 2009, 06:12 PM
Opinions based on reasons are just fine, no matter what the opinion--but leave the emotional commentary somewhere else.

mcdonl
September 9, 2009, 08:12 AM
....

DHJenkins
September 9, 2009, 08:43 AM
I don't think it's too big a deal. I'm more offended by people who refuse to use spaces after periods and commas.

Oh, so proper capitalization and the use of paragraphs & complete sentences don't bother in you the least, eh?

Philistine.

I hand my wife loaded pistols (including pistols with no safety) all the time. She has good muzzle & finger discipline, so I'm not worried.

Besides, how far can you actually trust other people in the range? The odds that one of them will snap and start shooting people are probably on par with the odds that one of them will have a negligent discharge that injures someone.

You can always leave or report them to the R.O. if it's that much of an issue.

Honestly, you'll get more done by complaining to them than you will to us - even if they don't appear to be violating any of the 4 rules.

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