[FSCJedi]

Anybody use 'em? For fun or for function? Do you prefer the Australian (longer handle, length does not include fall) or American (shorter handle, length includes fall) version? What length(s) do you prefer? I'm thinking of getting a 10' 12-plait Australian one, and would just like some opinions and feedback.

[Soap]

IMHO the bullwhip is only good for moving cattle and watching Indiana Jones kick some butt. As a defensive tool it serves little or no purpose. If I really wanted one (only for the Indy fun factor), I would get a good one like this: http://www.davidmorgan.com/bullwhips.html

[Anthony]

Not necessarily.

I remember reading an article by James Keating (entitled "The Martial Whip" I think) sometime back concerning the use of short and long bullwhips in conjunction with a medium sized knife for fighting.

Very interesting article!

Here is a link to it...

http://www.sonic.net/~quine/shortwhip.1.html

I believe the bullwhip can be a practical and less than lethal weapon in trained hands, but I think it is specifically that point that few of us can claim...TRAINED HANDS.

A lot of it depends on your opponent too. If you are facing a determined and hardened opponent he might charge your whip and try to rush you. This is where your secondary weapon (e.g., knife) would come in. If using the whip as a less than lethal option you might hold your handgun in your offhand while deploying the whip. If someone tried to rush you one could always then choose to fire. I'm not a legal expert, but it seems to me that it would look fairly good in court to say that you were trying to keep the BG at bay with the whip and only fired on him once he disobeyed your orders to halt and the crack of the whip had not convinced him otherwise. This would be akin to unsuccessfully hosing someone down with pepper spray first and then resorting to your firearm.

Personally I have considered carrying a whip in the colder months here in Texas simply because our CHL does not allow us to carry batons while there is no mention of a bullwhip or anything closely resembling it mentioned in the Texas state penal code. So it is legal to carry as far as I can tell. Plus, I would prefer it to pepper spray (which I carry now) if I were extremely proficient with it.

Thoughts?

[Soap]

I've read the Keating articles before. Although I think that he is a great trainer and extremely knowledgable man, he still admits the main fault of the whip:

Effective use demands superior footwork, body mechanics and distance appreciation. Timing and accuracy are crucial to deter an aggressive adversary. The latigo's long range greatly extends your reach. It also delivers powerful blows which can cut to the bone. On the other hand the latigo is slow. The load, strike, recover and load cycle only occurs at a measured pace an adversary can time.

In essence, for the whip to be effective it is either dead-on or you completely fail in your attack. It leaves no room for error; and even when a hit is scored, the result will most likely not stop your attacker. I believe that a person's timing, reach, attacking effectiveness, etc. can be done more justice with a different weapon. Ask yourself this, if a guy is coming at your with a machete/stick/shank/etc., do you want a whip in your hand? Also, even if you get good with a whip, where the heck are you going to carry it? Moreover, a whip and a pistol? If you have time to draw your pistol and draw/uncoil your whip, you probably have time to avoid the fight entirely (plus by drawing the gun you've automatically escalated the fight to a deadly force encounter).

[Anthony]

Daniel, I must respectfully disagree with you that drawing a handgun automatically escalates a confrontation to a deadly force level. If one draws a handgun one implies that they are willing to use deadly force, but deadly force itself only occurs once the handgun is discharged.

That said, I do agree with the primary weakness of the long bullwhip, but this does not apply to the short bullwhip like the Samjock sold by Cold Steel. That is why one must be very skilled with it.

As for carrying a whip, I experimented with a six foot toy whip and found it could be mounted under the speedloaders of my shoulder rig quite nicely with a simple length of leather with some snaps mounted to it through a metal loop in the rig. Under a light jacket it rides comfortably and discreetly. Fast into action too.

The idea that if one has time to uncoil a whip one has time to avoid the confrontation is not necessarily true. If one is cornered and must fight his way out then it would be a good time to uncoil that whip and I could do it quite quickly.

If a person charges me with a knife, shank, etc. then the firearm is the weapon of choice if you have enough space. If space or time doesn't allow then one should fall back onto another counter using martial arts, the stick, a knife (e.g., secreted in the handle of the whip per Keating), or perhaps one of the shot loaded whip handles I read about a long time ago that makes a great impact weapon comparable to a very large sap.

I've trained in the Filipino Martial Arts for 1 1/2 years now. Each weapon in the system, including the whip, has its place. While I would prefer a collapsable baton or short sword to a bullwhip any day I cannot carry them on the street. Arguably a short (26") stick is legal to carry since it is a stick and not a baton. While this works while walking around the neighborhood or in a car it is hard to tote to the movies.

For me, the whip could fit a niche legally that would be very good for me. If this doesn't fly for you then please find something else. I'm not claiming this is for everyone. It is just something I have decided could work for me. Choosing a weapon is a very personal thing. To me, the whip is an excellent auxillary weapon that allows me one more option to avoid the USE of deadly force if possible.

If you prefer prefer pepper spray or something else then by all means indulge. Just examine the tool/weapon for your lifestyle, situation, and intended opponents. Then decide for yourself.

The whip does have a few other tactical advantages:

* It has a reputation that I feel would give many BGs pause upon seeing it.

* A whip can entangle the legs of a BG to immobilize him.

* It is quite effective against animals you do not wish to kill.

* It can be thrown down without much worry of a BG successfully using it against you given how difficult it is to learn to wield a whip effectively.

More food for thought.

[Smoke]

Bullwhips for self defense?


Surely you jest......

[Anthony]

Don't knock it until you've experimented with it.

[Smoke]

Anthony,

I have.

Smoke

[C.R.Sam]

Seems to me...

Two kinds of folks that need attention.
Dangerous
Non dangerous.

If non dangerous, ignore em.

If dangerous, perceived to be a threat to your person, you need to stop them now.

Pepper spray, bean bags, whips, tasers etc...
Should be used when you have ARMED and trained backup.

Of course, you use what you have to the best of your ability when the need arises.

Sam

[Anthony]

Well put, Sam.

Agree 100%.