Low Down on Progressive Presses


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IndispensableDestiny
September 8, 2009, 07:52 AM
Hey all,

I intend to start reloading pistol ammo this winter. Something to do while keeping the wood stove going down in the basement. I shoot .40, .38 special, and .357. I go through a lot of .38 and .357 with a revolver and Marlin 1894C.

I'm looking at getting a progressive press -- and a single stage press bullet pulling and what ever comes by. Right now, I'm considering the Dillon 650, Hornady L-n-L, and RCBS Pro 2000. Please don't suggest a turret press, I've used a co-worker's 550 and know that I want a progressive.

I see this can be an emotional subject, but can owners please post the pro and cons of their presses? RCBS seems to be the most common in walk-in stores, followed by Hornady. Dillon seems to be online sales and fewer dealers. Usability and change over from one caliber are of most concern to me, not through put.

I'm indifferent on accessories (case vibrators, balances, etc.).

Also, does the Dillon accept RCBS dies?

Thanks!

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loadedround
September 8, 2009, 08:48 AM
I run two Dillon 550B's, one set up for large primers and the other for small. I have played with the Hornady progressive and it is a fine press. I like my Dillons for ease of caliber change, manual case advancement, and really great Customer Service. The Dillon 650 is also an excellent press but it is best used for one primary caliber since it is rather time consuming for caliber changes and priced quite a bit more than the 550B or the LNL for all it's needed accessories. Yes, you can use any manufacturer's dies in the Dillon, but you won't be using the expander die since the Dillon funnel tube is also an expander die and all work in conjuction with the powder measure. My suggestion is to try all three and make your choice. Dillon presss are sold thru selected retail dealers God luck! :)

mongoose33
September 8, 2009, 09:34 AM
I have the LNLAP.

Changeover is easy. Switching from small to large primers takes maybe 5 minutes if I'm going slow.

The LNL bushings are where this press shines w/r/t changeover. Just set up dies in the bushings, lock 'em in place to the bushing, and then it's just a simple twist in, twist out each time with no need to set up.

When the time came for me to decide, I'd narrowed it down to the dillon 550b, the Dillon SDB, and the LNLAP.

I'm sure I would have been comfortable with any of them, but what tipped the scales in favor of the LNLAP was that I don't need more costly proprietary dies like the SDB (and it won't do rifle cartridges), the 550b isn't really a true progressive, and Hornady had their "get loaded" offer where they'd send you 1000 bullets for just shipping (in my case, $22 for 1000 fabulous .45 XTP bullets). They still have that offer, BTW.

The powder measure on the LNLAP is terrific. About the only complaint I have with the LNLAP is that I couldn't get a Lee seating die to work to my satisfaction--the Lee dies are a bit shorter and I couldn't get it dialed in. I switched to the Hornady dies which also allowed me to use the Microjust seating stems. That was easier because the Get Loaded offer extends to dies too--$6.95 and you get 100 bullets.

In the end, I think the choice comes down to just Red or Blue, simply because there are so many people using each that you can find support online if you need it. I'm sure I would have been happy with Blue--I have several Dillon products including the Swager and the D-Terminator scale, they're both fabulous.

But I chose Red for the reasons above.

Walkalong
September 8, 2009, 09:54 AM
I would love to hear from some RCBS owners.

alfack
September 8, 2009, 05:23 PM
What do you mean the 550b is not a true progressive? That's the first time I've heard that. I guess I haven't been loading progressively all these years then, lol.

You should really look into what your needs and wants are. You will get as many opinions, based on what people own, as there are machines and half of those opinions will be based on mis-information. They will all get you there in the end.

David Wile
September 8, 2009, 06:00 PM
Hey ID,

From what you have said, I would suggest the Dillon 650 and the Hornady L&L AP will meet your needs. I have used both quite a bit, I have had a Hornady L&L AP since 1997, I would have to say I prefer my Hornady, but I would not say that either is "better."

I agree with Walkalong. RCBS has a new progressive out that could and maybe should have better features than the Dillon 650 and the Hornady L&L AP which are getting older now. Anyone out there with the new RCBS progressive? How about telling us about its cost and how it works?

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

WmCC
September 8, 2009, 07:42 PM
Regarding the Pro 2000, here's a brief list of the characteristics that meant the most to me after loading for many years on a 550 and 650, both of which have been replaced by the 2000.

Strength: Cast iron vice aluminum in the frame and critical toggle-link assembly. I've seen several broken toggles on blue presses..primarily associated with rifle cartridge production.

Speed of cartridge Conversions and Fine tuning: Easiest and fastest press on the market, bar none. I load for 9 rifle cartridges and 14 handgun cartridges. The Change from large to small primer seating takes 15 seconds.

Simplicity: Robust with fewer small parts. I frequently needed replacement ("piecey") parts for the blue machines.

Size: Much larger operating window over the shell plate (read, both W and H ).

Superior Powder Measure: One extremely accurate micrometer adjustable (& repeatable) powder measure which stays on the press. With blue I had several powder measures, each dedicated to a toolhead. The LNL unit is similar to the 2000, a good design.

Cost: Less Expensive in the long run with several (or, many) dedicated die plates, shell plates and accessories.

Control/Operation: I prefer manipulating cases and bullets with the left hand at adjacent stations located at the 9;00 o'clock and 8:00 o'clock positon(s) while the right hand stays on the handle. A personal preference (only), probably from my Rock chucker days, I suppose.

Priming: Before trying it I wasn't too keen on the proprietary strip priming system, at all. As a matter-of-fact, I purchased the optional tube system when I bought the 2000. I have never used it. I appreciate and enjoy the strip system far more than I could explain in this short reply. It's super.

Endorsements: When I last checked, the 2000 was the press of choice of the NRA tech staff and the noted shooter and writer, Mr.Taffin.
__________________

GW Staar
September 8, 2009, 09:27 PM
Pro's of the RCBS Pro 2000
1. 5 station press with slide-in heads like the Dillon 650.
The powder measure station is stationary. (Not in the removable head) Which means you can get by with 1 powder measure, or 2 if you really want to change calibers things fast and easy...1 for each size drum. The powder measure has a built-in micrometer quickly adjustable and repeatable for different loads and calibers.

2. The RCBS Pro 2000 is a manual or auto indexing press...take your pick.
I bought the manual version (like a Dillon 550 with an extra station). Later I bought the upgrade kit ($102.) which converted it into the auto indexing press. No difference if I had started with the auto version, except that I have a few extra parts laying around from the manual index side.
Try converting a Dillon 550 to a 650...not possible.

3. Simple. Few moving parts, and what is moving isn't going to break or get out of adjustment. Easy to learn and easy to use.

4. The APS is fastest primer system on the planet if you buy primers in strips. If you can't find the strips (primers of any kind is tough to find these days) then you get to use the strip loader that comes with the press. Just dump a box of primers into the loader, shake to turn them bottoms up, insert a strip, tip the tray toward the strip filling the holes, and press the handle. Repeat the last step filling strips 25 at a time.

5. The APS primer system is the safest on the planet, no tipped primers, no kabooms...ever.

6. It really is the fastest and most versatile system to change calibers with hands down. Fewer parts to change and faster to change them. With all the rifle and pistol cartridges I load, I was interested to watch the You-Tube video of a guy changing calibers on a Dillon....whoa, what a pain.

7. Company support is as good as Dillon's. RCBS customers stay happy.

Cons:

1. No good way to have a case feeder, so this press is slower in the loading races because you have to mount both case and bullet by hand. Of course if you're racing, more things go wrong. I watched a Dillon 650 being raced. Great, for a minute or two...then primers were flying all over the floor. I left. Didn't see the end.

Fix: RCBS's bullet collator & loader is available finally. Some argue this is the better thing to automate, as hand-mounting cases allow you to inspect them. (Bullets usually don't need inspecting)

2. You can't take the primer feeder off line without unloading the primers.

Simple Fix:http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=287872

3. It isn't stupid proof. When you find a press that is...call me!

IndispensableDestiny
September 9, 2009, 06:45 AM
Thanks for all the great advice. For now, I'm studying the operator's manuals and making notes on things I like or don't like about each. Right now I like the idea of removable tool heads and don't see how the Hornady bushings add any value (why not just lock down the rings?).

The RCBS shell plate conversion seems overly complicated. But as a lefty, I appreciate WmCC's comment. I like the idea of fewer small parts. Having once worked in a small machine shop, I know heavy can be good!

The entire power measure debate for the Dillon presses has me baffled. I'm not sure I like the idea of an expander as part of the funnel tube.

I'm positive I'll have more questions as I learn more.

Bailey Boat
September 9, 2009, 07:36 AM
Another vote for the RCBS 2000. I've had mine since thay came out so I've been through a couple of "upgrades" all supplied by RCBS at no charge (you can't pay for a part with them!!!) The difference in smoothness between the 2000 and a Dillon is night and day, as is weight which contributed to the smoothness.
The shellplate change is overblown in the manual, skip the hex wrench and get a socket with the correct size hex and it takes less than a minute to change between calibers.

mallc
September 9, 2009, 02:23 PM
There's not a bad reloading press on the market. Its a matter of getting the press that best suits your needs and interests.

Here are three questions you have to answer before you can match a press to your shooting needs. 1) How much shooting is a lot? 2) How much are you willing to spend? 3) How "progressive" do you want to get?

I did my homework before I bought my first progressive. The 1st machine I bought preformed exactly as advertised...but it didn't do everything I need to do as well as I'd like. It can pump out 600 to 800 rounds an hour but it's impractical for just about any other reloading chore.

The last progressive I bought fits a different need. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles and only makes 200 to 400 rounds an hour. That said changeover cost and time to changeover make it the best choice for batches of less than 500 rounds per run. Its practical for working up loads but probably not for resizing and/or trimming cases.

Now, I've been called a "rich yuppie, pretend re-loader" by some and a lot worse by others...but my best advise is to answer those first three questions and then see which press best fits your needs.

Scott

WmCC
September 9, 2009, 04:38 PM
Three additional comments on the 2000:

1) The RCBS manual is not well written...it is much easier to "set up" and operate than described in that publication.

2) As to taking the primer feed "off-line" for a moment or two...one half of a wooden clothes pin trimmed to fit in the gap between the end of the actuator assembly and the APS body (itself) is all you need...and it doesnt harm the mechanism. I painted the outboard end of the "stick" red to alert the operator as to its presence.

2)The ratchet and socket recommendation on the shell plate bolt is dead on. Disassembly takes 20 seconds.

3) Periodic cleaning of the spent-primer drop tube is critical. Try using a length of HEAVY trimmer string to push a .243 cal. patch through the tube, from the top down...tight on the first pass but very easy to do and it saves the work of having to dismount the tube to clean it. A little Hoppe's on the first patch works wonders if the tube is filthy. The trimmer string accomodates the bends in the tube very well. I made this recommendation to RCBS and suggested that they might include a 30 inch length of RCBS GREEN trimmer string with each press...cost $.01 or less, each.

Use of both a lock-out die (handgun cases) and a powder level check die for rifle cases at station 4 is strongly recommended. Sooner or later you will get a chance to comfort someone near you on the firing line who loads 400+/ hour and can't understand why or how they got a squib or suffered a catastrophic failure. They typically state that they KNOW that they used the correct powder and viewed/ checked every charge!!! Guess what?

showmebob
September 9, 2009, 05:02 PM
I own the LNL AP and have no problems with any of the other presses. I think it's all personal preference. All of the warranties are great.
I'm a left handed person. I looked at the big 3 in person and watched videos of them before deciding on Hornady.
[quote: Right now I like the idea of removable tool heads and don't see how the Hornady bushings add any value (why not just lock down the rings?).]
The bushings allow you to quickly change any die (about 2 seconds each). I prefer this to the tool head change. It seems cheaper and more flexible to me. If I want to resize and deprime 357's I just remove the other dies and powder measure. When its time to load just remove the sizing die and install the rest of the dies. Quick, easy, flexible. You can also change locations of the dies for using powder checkers etc.
Also I prefer the case retention spring of the Hornady. Its fast and easy to remove/install a case at any station of the press.
They are all great presses, pick the color you like best and get to loading! Best of luck!

IndispensableDestiny
September 9, 2009, 06:27 PM
From what I've read here, elsewhere, and in the manuals, it may just come down to color. Trouble is; red, blue, and green are my favorite colors!

DBR
September 9, 2009, 08:21 PM
I use the RCBS2000 for runs of 500 rds or so of pistol ammo as follows:

I use a Dillon powder measure in station 2 and a RCBS lock out die in station 3 (the normal powder measure station).

I find the Dillon measure to be accurate for any normal pistol powder.

If you want to use the RCBS powder measure you can still use a lock out die but then you have to seat and crimp with one die.

WmCC
September 13, 2009, 05:19 PM
Red, Blue and green. Actually they are all very good presses/ systems with excellent warranties. Each has a slightly different personality and once you "adapt to it", learn it's preferences and get your sea legs under you, it will be love from then on.

You can't go wrong with any of them.

Enjoy!

rfwobbly
September 13, 2009, 06:57 PM
There's not a bad reloading press on the market. Its a matter of getting the press that best suits your needs and interests.

Mr. Destiny -
Above is the best statement yet. Both a Yugo and a Mercedes will get you to work, the question is really one of features you want/need versus the price of those features. In reality most of us end up somewhere between.

And so it follows that the guys that have been in reloading 10+ years RARELY have all one color. I have a Dillon 550B, but I use Lee, Hornady and Redding dies, Lyman case trimmer and an RCBS 505 scale. I keep a Lyman turret press on the side for small jobs that I load using my RCBS Uni-Flow powder drop. There's just not one kit on the market that contains all the pieces, so why pretend? In the end you're going to end up using enough of the rainbow to make even Jesse Jackson proud !! :D



What I like on my 550B...
• Once set it stays set. If I set it up for a certain caliber I can use it all year.
• Churns out ammo with OALs within a .004" range or smaller
• I've never had a primer explode, fail to feed, go in sideways, etc
• The action is smooth and has lots of "feel" on primer insertion
• Caliber change takes a timed 3 minutes, including powder hopper install
• Primer size change takes another 5 minutes (which I only make for 45ACP)
• The manual advance feature actually ends up as an advantage since you can backup, or bypass the powder drop station, at anytime
• The ability to insert or remove a case at any station position is wonderful
• The primer warning buzzer is really nice


What I dislike on my 550B...
• Having to use tiny lock nuts on the dies. They should give you the first 5 free. Large 1-3/16 lock nuts (like Lee) won't work.
• It gets "smutty". It fails to catch all the primer mess, so every 500 rounds I need to clean up under the ram.


I've found it REALLY does help to have 2 Dillon powder measures. One with the pistol measuring bar, and one this the rifle measuring bar. Changing over the powder bar is not lengthy, but it's also no fun. Better to invest in a second power measure somewhere down the road.

I load a bullet with my left hand while I load a case with my right. So the manual loading thing is not an issue for me, but I've been accused of being ambidextrous.

Hope this helps!

Lonely Raven
September 16, 2009, 11:20 AM
Great Thread!

I'm an RCBS Pro 2000 user, I've borrowed a blue press (I don't even recall which it was), and have watched a friend use the LNL AP with Case feeder *and* bullet feeder.

If I didn't have the RCBS Pro2000 and I wanted higher production, I'd be all over the LNL AP and spring for the case feeder and a bullet feeder.

All the pros and cons of the Pro2000 I agree with. I love the APS priming system. I can't imagine pecking tubes! I fill 300-400 primers in strips in the time it takes my friends to load a primer tube!
Caliber change is quick and easy. As mentioned, a ratchet for the shell plate, and swap in the die plate. Dial in your powder drop (which I write down the very repeatable settings), test 5 drops and RELOAD!

When I'm in the zone and pressing, I can do 1 round every six seconds. But realistically, since I don't want to be throwing powder all over, and ***** happens, my reloading speed is about one round every 10 seconds, with manual index, bullet, and case feeding. Including filling primer strips, dialing in powder, changing dies and shell plate, I produce 500 rounds an hour if I don't get distracted. And that's not racing, that's slow-smooth-consistent.

My only gripe has been the slight deflection of the shell holder, and the play in the die head. Not enough to throw off my pistol rounds...but I wouldn't call this a precision rifle round machine. Oh, yeah, and the cost of die heads, shell plates, indexing stars...basically all the parts that make for a quicker change add up quickly. Still not as expensive as blue press parts, but still adds up.

I'm currently looking at a single stage, or very stable turret for precision rifle rounds. But I can't imagine giving up my Pro2000 for anything. In fact, I just dropped another $150 on shell plates, die heads, and indexing stars for calibers I don't own yet. Gives me an excuse to buy more firearm. :)

Deavis
September 16, 2009, 02:59 PM
I've owned the Pro2000, 650XL, and Super 1050. I sold the RCBS and still have the 650 along with my 1050s. I'll compare back to the Pro2000 after describing it.

Pro2000

Well built press but a few parts needed replacement (I bought an early model) with newer spec parts. RCBS was helpful and friendly, I didn't pay anything for any part. Manual was fine, about average. For me, APS priming was a hit-or-miss proposition. CCI is the only one selling in APS strips and the strip loader is just as annoying as a primer pickup tube. I don't use CCI primers, so I had to use the loader. APS strips sometimes misfed in the mechanism, when it worked it was pretty good and easy to link strips. Switched to the tube system, it was okay but would flip primers frequently. RCBS supported with parts for the Ram prime systems to fix the issue, but it was still never acceptable, it still flipped primers. I sold the press SPECIFICALLY because of the priming issue. APS and Ram prime didn't do it for me. Great for lower volume production and is a solid press. Caliber changes are pretty simple and straightforward. Micrometer on the powder measure is definitely nice, they have an auto-indexing feature and have a bullet feeder available. I did NOT own the Pro2000 long enough (>100k rounds) to say much about its reliability. Access to shells in the shellplate is very easy and layout is good.

650XL

Well built press, just like the Pro2000. Not to be considered without the case-feeder, that is a 550++ and not worth discussing. Auto-indexing with the case feeder allows much higher volume than a Pro2000 without them. Powder measure is old fashioned and clunky but nothing about the RCBS or LnL measure is superior in accuracy and repeatability. You can try to argue that but I've got a dataset across multiple powder types that will conclusively put your arguments to pasture. If you bring me a dataset with at least 5k of samples, we can talk otherwise don't beat your chest. +/- 0.1 grain, just like every other measure out there that I've seen data on.

Some plastic parts do wear out and break, specifically the case index ring and index ramp. Springs for indexing and case feeding will need to be replaced every 15k or so to keep operation tip-top but can go 25k and Dillon provides them for "free". The caliber specific feed plates are aluminum and can be damaged if cases are forced or debris enters them with a case around the extractor groove. Press has ample leverage for sizing. Caliber changes can be a little more involved if you change primer types but are less than 15 minutes and conversion kits (mostly for the case feeder) do add up. If you setup for quick-changes, it will cost you some change but makes it pretty easy to get things done. Determine if your time is worth spending the money on the quick-changes, don't discount opportunity cost.

Bullet feeder is available and a micrometer is available to make the powder measure easily adjustable to pre-recorded settings. The latter should be standard equipment in my opinion. Through die case mouth expansion is a non-issue, you'll never notice it once you are used to it. Priming is solid and as safe as any system out there with primers inline physically separated once they leave the magazine. Spews spent primers on the floor, a plastic tube and a trash can fixes this. Brass buttons can be annoying when accessing the shellplate contents but if you don't have fumble fingers you won't chase them on the floor very often. The powder alarm, primer alert, and powder cop are all decent, nothing special.

Super 1050

Better case feed setup than the 650XL. Indexing is smoother than the 650XL, even with a coil cut off the 650's index ball spring. Larger diameter shellplate can actually decrease your productivity compared to racing the small 650 shellplate. Swage is invaluable for all calibers, fixes the S&B tight pocket issue and military crimps. Separate mouth expansion is nice and adjustable primer seating depth is very cool. Stroke is easy without an upstroke for primer seating. For a dedicated caliber machine, this is a better press than any I've ever used or seen in use. It can be automated and a bullet feeder is available. Caliber changes are much more involved than the 650 and more expensive. In my opinion, if you are thinking about switching calibers or priming systems over on this press to save money, you should consider the purpose of this press and/or get a second job. Priming system cannot be serviced without empyting the magazine, unlike the 650XL. That will solve that issue and I don't think I need to say much more about this one. If you use it once you'll understand.

No matter what, you aren't going to go wrong with any press. Serach for "courtland" and "LnL" to get a great write-up on it and comparison to the 550. Personally, I wouldn't buy a press that couldn't accept a case feeder. To me, a progressive press just doesn't fulfill its true potential without a case feeder. In any case, if you hate filling primer pick-up tubers or filling strips, get an RF-100 and be done with it.

GW Staar
September 16, 2009, 06:45 PM
For me, APS priming was a hit-or-miss proposition. CCI is the only one selling in APS strips and the strip loader is just as annoying as a primer pickup tube. I don't use CCI primers, so I had to use the loader. APS strips sometimes misfed in the mechanism, when it worked it was pretty good and easy to link strips. Switched to the tube system, it was okay but would flip primers frequently. RCBS supported with parts for the Ram prime systems to fix the issue, but it was still never acceptable, it still flipped primers. I sold the press SPECIFICALLY because of the priming issue. APS and Ram prime didn't do it for me. Great for lower volume production and is a solid press.

Your impatience in resolving the quirks of the APS system was unfortunate, because your quick switch to the tube system, made the press lose one of its biggest advantages over other designs.

Handling the strips sometimes makes a primer or two stick up too far. Then, when you insert the strip, it, as you say, "misfed." The answer for me was to grab a wallpaper roller, and turning several strips anvil side up on a flat surface, rolling it across the strips...2 seconds tops. Strips "rollered" that way don't misfeed. There is the annoyance of pressing a primer up too far by moving the handle towards the bench even minutely past the top zero position. If that happens and you want to remove the strip instead of loading that primer just push it back down with the flat side of a .22 bullet.

I don't find loading the strips annoying for this reason: For tube loaders you wouldn't think of loading 10 tubes or more and storing them. Stupidly dangerous, right? Yet with the APS loader I often load several whole boxes of a 1000 into strips, apply the sticky labels provided to protect 4 strips at a time and store them in relabeled APS primer boxes (or some other suitable box) for a future reloading session...all while watching TV in my favorite recliner...and since the strips are color coded there is no chance of making a mistake. Never a chance for a kaboom either.

You can try to argue that but I've got a dataset across multiple powder types that will conclusively put your arguments to pasture. If you bring me a dataset with at least 5k of samples, we can talk otherwise don't beat your chest. +/- 0.1 grain, just like every other measure out there that I've seen data on.

I'm not attacking your integrity or doubting your research, but if you're going to "beat your chest" we'd all like to see your data, so that we can all rest on the subject.

mallc
September 16, 2009, 07:24 PM
Powder measure is old fashioned and clunky but nothing about the RCBS or LnL measure is superior in accuracy and repeatability.

Second on this one. I have Redding, RCBS, Dillon, and Hornady measures. They all seem to run +-0.05 to +-0.1 depending on they type of powder and consistency of the operator. All of the crank-throw type use the same basic bolt-head stop principal so one ought not perform too much better than the other. Dillon uses a slide bar but the only difference is that the space is square instead of round.

Maybe we should start another threat and invite people to contribute 100 throws to see just how the data shakes out???

Data almost always trumps doubt!

Scott

pinkymingeo
September 16, 2009, 09:13 PM
I store primers in pickup tubes all the time, and don't consider it at all dangerous.

Lonely Raven
September 16, 2009, 10:49 PM
GW, you brought up a good point I forgot.

The only time I've ever had issues with the APS strips, is when I was rushing through loading them, and they weren't all seated correctly in the strip...which would bind in the feeder and piss me off.

Once I pull my head out of my butt and stopped rushing through loading the strips, I had no issues. I do the same as you do to level out all the primers in the strip, but I don't use a roller. I simply put the strips on the (clean) work bench, anvil side down, and press with my hands. You can feel the few stragglers pop in and it's done. I've had zero issues with the APS binding since then.

My only gripe about the APS might be that I wish the "runway" was longer, so I could have at least two strips linked together without one dangling off the machine by friction only. I'm probably going to make some sort of extension on mine for that.

GW Staar
September 17, 2009, 12:49 AM
My only gripe about the APS might be that I wish the "runway" was longer, so I could have at least two strips linked together without one dangling off the machine by friction only. I'm probably going to make some sort of extension on mine for that.

You may be amused at my way around that. I have 3 very small dixie cups that I line up. When I open a box of 100 bullets I dump 15 into the bullet tray, put 25 into cups 1 and 2 and pour the rest (35) into cup 3.

So then I load the first 15 rounds. Tray is empty so I add cup 1 to it and snap in a primer strip.(3 seconds) Load the next 25 rounds until the tray is empty, dump cup 2 in the tray, snap in a strip and load the next 25 rounds. Dump the last cup, snap the last strip and load the last 35 rounds. Piece of cake. Typically I then change calibers and load another 100.

I understand that loading four strips is 9 sec. slower than a loading a 100 round tube. But you have to give something for the peace of mind that you have that you're not going to scare the hell out of yourself and your family, when the 650 puts the top of the primer tube through the ceiling with a kaboom. Your ears suffer the worst if you're too cool or forget to wear plugs.

Deavis has gravitated to the Super 1050. Hey, if I only loaded one caliber and I could part with the bucks, I'd have one too. Maybe Deavis has 4. Awesome machine. But...
Caliber changes are much more involved than the 650 and more expensive. In my opinion, if you are thinking about switching calibers or priming systems over on this press to save money, you should consider the purpose of this press and/or get a second job. My life style can't justify that, and my goal is to retire from the job I already have. I like to load 4 pistol cartridges and 5 rifle cartridges. Below the one caliber Super 1050 I think the big green machine does what I want really, really well.

Maybe we should start another thread and invite people to contribute 100 throws to see just how the data shakes out???

:)You guys figure it out...I'll believe you...just show the unbiased data. I'm going to be shooting. Who knows, maybe your study will force me to replace my two Uniflows with Lee Precision plastic sweepers. Some people swear by them, and they're cheap! I do know that my machines have less moving parts than the Dillon ones...less parts...less to go wrong. Happy powder pours to ya!

Walkalong, I'm afraid you might have got more than you asked for, asking to hear from the RCBS guys. Sorry.

Rugg_Ed
September 18, 2009, 09:09 AM
IndispensableDestiny, That created vary interesting reading.

Over many years of loading my work area has taken on a variety of colors as it grew to fit the need from single stage to Progressive. Some may even be called Antique. Most of which I still use for its unique purpose. I think you will find the same, as time passes on. I don't plan on buying a $300 nail gun when a single stroke of a old tack hammer holds the sign. "Gone Fishing Be Back Later"
Enjoy your adventures and best wishes.

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