Mechanics or Purpose. What Makes a Gun?


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HitmanNumber86
September 8, 2009, 12:54 PM
This is my first post on this forum. I've read a lot of threads from here, though. I do hope that more respect is given then what I've received from places like 'The Firing Line.'

I came across an old thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=445561), and was wondering if anyone sees firearms the same reason as me. I have no idea, what-so-ever as to what an 'assault weapon' is (I mean, I can assault someone with the bottom of my boot, making it a weapon). When I see an M14 with ten feet of picatinny and an adjustable aluminum stock, to me, it's the same a 1960s issue M14. I don't see what all the hype is about with 'tactical' guns. A gun is a gun, no matter what you do to it or use it for, the inside is always the same.

Opinions, please.

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DSAPT9
September 8, 2009, 02:05 PM
To me it is like a tractor. It is a good tool around the farm in its self but add attachments and it will do multiple tasked it was never really designed for. I agree some of it seems over kill for anything I do but I have seen flashlight, lasers and different scopes used in three gun match’s to better hone their skills.

So there is a purpose even if I may not use them. They are just tools and that is all, it does not make it any more or less evil they just add possibilities to the base tool.

JohnBT
September 8, 2009, 03:38 PM
"I do hope that more respect is given then what I've received from places like 'The Firing Line.'"

History lesson: When The Firing Line closed for a time years ago we all came over here.

IOW, it's pretty much the same crowd.

John

Cosmoline
September 8, 2009, 03:44 PM
I agree too much is sometimes made of the packaging, but then again the packaging is what you have to live with as the user. Many of us simply prefer the clean wooden lines of a traditional stock and furniture. I've never gotten much use out of all the additional rails and handles and whatnot.

rocky branch
September 8, 2009, 03:52 PM
I carried a CAR in VN for awhile.
The short barrel and telescoping stock sure were handy in the dense vegetation of the 3 corps border area.
Not much of a range piece, but served its purpose.
Didn't have a lazer, flaslight, scope, or whistle on it.

PandaBearBG
September 8, 2009, 03:53 PM
Well there are all types of people, there are traditionalist and minimalist who like firearms as they were, in their raw untouched (aestheticly speaking) beauty. There are people who enjoy surplus weapons because of it's historical value or hunting rifles because it's what they use or grew up with. There really is something special when a gun owner appreciates the craftsmanship in the care of the wood finish or solid construction of a fire arm.

There is another crowd that enjoys the versatility and modern designs and advancements of a weapon. I fall into that category because as a member of our modern day military, it's what I was trained with and what I know and where I learned about shooting and rifles. My first rifle i shot wasn't a 22 with my dad, it was a M16 in boot. Everyone has their personal reasons and choices, you should respect that and allow them to enjoy their guns without judging them on what they prefer. Like my momma says if you don't got something nice to say, don't say anything.

CoRoMo
September 8, 2009, 03:55 PM
I don't see what all the hype is about with 'tactical' guns.

Some people do.

If the tactical crowd looks down their nose at you for having a walnut stock, that's wrong. And vice-versa.

rbernie
September 8, 2009, 05:18 PM
A gun is a gun, no matter what you do to it or use it for, the inside is always the same.
Different looks and different features enable different capabilities, and that's all good.

I will quarrel with some features/looks/farkles on occasion, but usually only when they are largely untested by the folks doing the recommending. As adults on a public forum, we have a responsibility to provide solid, sound advice that is truthful to the best of our knowledge and ability to test it. Recommending something without rigor behind the recommendation is dishonest in my eyes.

Some folks have strong brand-centric or feature/look-centric preferences. I'm OK with that. But in the end I believe that we should embrace diversity, so long as the diversity has some root in functionality. I don't care for preferences to become exclusionary, and we work to avoid that sort of thing here.

I do hope that more respect is given then what I've received from places like 'The Firing Line.'
FYI - we also don't do forum wars here.

HitmanNumber86
September 8, 2009, 05:26 PM
Maybe I wasn't very clear. I'm not saying either traditional, or tactical is bad. I just don't see why people don't see the same gun in both dresses.

Also at what point a gun becomes tactical. Can't a tactical firearm be considered an excepionally efficient hunting firearm?

rbernie
September 8, 2009, 05:29 PM
Of course. I've been hunting with AR platform rifles for the better part of a decade now, as have many other members here.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=89381&d=1229388127

At the same time, one of my HD weapons is a cut-down Auto5:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=92715&d=1234587199

PandaBearBG
September 8, 2009, 06:02 PM
Hitman you gotta be a little more clear on your posts, you ask why people don't see the same in in different dress. Yet it's clear you have a bias towards traditional wood stock. I'm not saying that that's better or worse than a "tactical" stock, I just don't understand why you are trying to say we should see all rifles the same when you clearly do not.

Tactical doesn't mean just adding lights, rails, etc. Tactical is in application. Just like a "sniper" rifle is any rifle that is in the hands of a trained sniper, otherwise it's just a rifle. A shotgun used to breach a door by LE is tactical but the same shotgun if used by a civial is a hunting shotgun. Some people use modifications used by military or LEO because it just works better for them, they are more effecient in certain applications. Learn from the best firearm organizations in the US, LE and military, using similiar equipment is a natural extension. If you think using "tactical" parts is wrong it's because YOU just do not like them.

HitmanNumber86
September 8, 2009, 07:30 PM
I'm not sure my 'tone' is coming off properly. I apologize.

Don't get me wrong, I love guns like this
http://miasmaticreview.mu.nu/mt-static/AR15%20Barbie%20Doll%20for%20Guys.jpg

I guess the term 'hype' came off too strong, or incorrectly. I meant that tactical firearms are normally viewed [by most that I've met] as meant for shooting people via SWAT or private contractors. I like the look of bells and whistles on a gun, but I'm fascinated by the inner workings. The guts are what make a gun [In my opinion], a 240G is a Browning .30 cal, a SAW is an upside-down belt fed AK etc.

You have to forgive me. I'm not used to typing my opinions.

Lawnman380
September 8, 2009, 09:07 PM
Form and Fuction.....thats all I see

mustang_steve
September 8, 2009, 10:18 PM
* Assault Weapon is a term created to stir the feelings of those hearing it, usually used to demonize guns. I refuse to use this terms outside of a mocking or explanatory context.

To me, anything full auto is an automatic rifle, anything semi-auto is a semi auto rifle, a shotgun is a shotgun, a pistol is a pistol, a revolver is a revoler, a derringer is a derringer (even if it's in a revolver format), etc. If it has rails, it's just a railed whatever it is.

They're all machines to accomplish the task the user desires of them. If it's downing wild hogs, cool...if it's defending one's home or family, cool...if it's defending the nation, cool.

So long as it's used in a positive manner, cool. :)

Isher
September 8, 2009, 10:28 PM
Hitman -

You forgot the tweezers, the toothpick, the scissors and the sawblade.

The concept of a semiautomatic, magazine fed, suppressed

Swiss Army Knife is entirely beyond my ken.

I like 'em simple and to the point.

isher

Ed Ames
September 8, 2009, 10:49 PM
I see what you are saying...A gun is a gun, a car is a car, a boat is a boat, an airplane is an airplane....

There are a few counterpoints there. I'll ignore them and say this instead:

A lot of people in the US today hate smoking. Hate it with a passion. It is sinful, evil, and they want it GONE from the world forever. But they catch a whiff of Captain Black pipe tobacco and suddenly they are 5 and visiting their grandparents and it's all pleasant memories. The same people who would think nothing of keying the car of anyone who lit up a Camel within 300 feet of them are in happy nostalgia land and *like* the smell.

Same phenomenon applies to guns. People who dislike, perhaps outright hate, guns can still have happy memories of pappy who always had his lever action in the back of his pickup, or spent every Sunday at the skeet club, or what have you. The same person who knows in his heart you are unstable for wanting to own a gun gets a warm fuzzy feeling when he sees a classic firearm that reminds him of his childhood.

It's called insanity and it's very very common. The result is that people treat things which are functionally identical, but superficially different, as though they are far more different than they are.

catspa
September 9, 2009, 12:52 AM
Do you think less of me for having a tactical toolbox on my tractor?

Parker

HitmanNumber86
September 9, 2009, 01:22 AM
I'd be interested in seeing that. Do you keep ammo and guns inside of it? I'd probably do something like that if I had just finished watching Signs.

twofifty
September 9, 2009, 02:06 AM
'86, can you tell us more about the similarities and differences between the SAW and AK?

I'm not disputing your statement, it's just that this observation sparked my curiosity:

Quote hitman86:
"The guts are what make a gun [In my opinion], a 240G is a Browning .30 cal, a SAW is an upside-down belt fed AK etc."

Side by side pictures of the actions, triggers and gas systems would be great as I have never seen their mechanisms.

doc2rn
September 9, 2009, 02:43 AM
Do you think less of me for having a tactical toolbox on my tractor?

Parker

I am with hitman I wanna see it!

Firearms are just tools, and kinda reminds me of somethin grandpa said once about pigs and dresses when I got the 9mm craze.

HitmanNumber86
September 9, 2009, 02:49 AM
http://www.failsafetechnologies.com/images/MinimiPartskitFULL.jpg
http://browningmgs.com/T2T3/Photos/BoltCarriers.jpg
Look at the bolt/boltcarrier/gas piston and compare to the AK's. The only reason it's upside-down is for the open bolt, belt fed system.

Isher
September 9, 2009, 04:21 AM
Weird scenes in the goldmine -

I smoke a pipe.

Where I get my tobacco from is a little place

Near El Toro, Ca.

Found it by accident a long time ago.

Story is this; the old man

Comes from Belgium to freakin Orange County

In the really early 1900's.

Why I do not know.

Happens to be a master tobacco blender, and so starts

Up a shop.

Passes that on to his son,

Who passes that on to his daughter and her husband.

I'm still buying the old man's blend.

So be it.

isher

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