Permanently Locking In The L&L Bushing


PDA






David Wile
September 8, 2009, 09:14 PM
Hey folks,

In the past week (maybe two) or so, there was a thread wherein there was discussion of the L&L bushing feature and probably comparison to the Dillon tool head. Someone, I cannot remember who, mentioned that he did not consider the L&L bushing to be a benefit to him and that he was considering doing something that would permanently lock the bushings in place and he would go back to screwing in and adjusting dies.

The more I have thought about his comment, the more I am thinking I would like to lock my bushings in place and go back to screwing my dies in place and adjusting accordingly. I am a bit reluctant to do anything such as weld the bushings in place, but I would like to hear what that fellow had in mind.

I have tried several searches on bushings, but I cannot find the one comment from the fellow who mentioned locking his bushings in place more or less on a permanent basis. Can anyone tell me who made the comment so I could discuss this further?

I know - I'm going back to the future.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

If you enjoyed reading about "Permanently Locking In The L&L Bushing" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Shoney
September 8, 2009, 09:43 PM
Easy as pie. Use salmon skin and bubblegum.

Drill through the tool head into each station hole at a right angle. Tap the hole, and put a set screw in.

Then when you regain your sanity:what:, you can loosen the set screw for quick removal of the bushing/die/PM/et cetera/et cetera/et cetera. Then you eat the bubblegum and salmon skin.:evil:

MNPyro
September 8, 2009, 10:08 PM
I wasn't a part of that conversation, but Loc-tite makes several different variations of their "glue" and you can research which one will do what you want, but I think it's red bottle will hold solid for as long as you want, but you can "break" it free without too much trouble for when you want to use the bushings the way they were meant to.

Fractal X
September 8, 2009, 10:09 PM
Alternatively, you could use a few drops of the blue (NOT red) locktite. This would make it removable with some effort but would not require any machining.

ETA: Just FYI, the blue locktite just requires a bit of elbow grease to come undone, the red locktite requires hi temperatures and elbow grease to come undone.

WLE
September 8, 2009, 10:35 PM
I'm with Shoney.......Why ???? Presetting the dies with the lock an load feature makes this presses versitile I would not even consider to glue the sleeves the only option I would consider would be a drill and tap and a set screw.

TRguy
September 8, 2009, 11:23 PM
Sounds like the search to a answer of a question no one is asking. And if you are asking that question maybe you would be better off drinking blue koolaid.

I love the bushing system relative to the toolhead on the dillion. Rock on Red koolaid!

ranger335v
September 8, 2009, 11:51 PM
David, I'm with you! Quick-change bushings are an excellant solution for which we have no problem. It takes what, twenty seconds to exchange screw-in dies? I own something like 90 individual dies, even if I wanted the things I wouldn't buy that many!

IF you know you want to make it perminent just use a dab of epoxy on it. But, if you ever wanted to sell it, that quick-change idea appeals to noobs so permanent could cost you a buyer. You COULD hot-glue it in tho, that would hold it securely and a bit of heat from a propane torch would let you back out if you wish. The glue is the path I would take!

Whatever method you use, do it with hard UP ram pressure so there will be a solid metal to metal contact when you work with it.

BigJakeJ1s
September 8, 2009, 11:59 PM
If you really want to do it, just get the threaded bushings that RCBS Redding or Lee include with their single stage presses (the same threaded bushings you replace with the Hornady press conversion bushing to use LNL die bushings).

I'd think twice against it though.

Andy

David Wile
September 9, 2009, 12:00 AM
Hey folks,

I'm asking the question here, I am not nobody, and I am not alone. As stated in my original post, someone else mentioned the idea of fixing his bushings because he did not like using them. There is at least one other person on the forum who has referred to the bushings as a solution looking for a problem.

I am not trolling for an arguement here. If you have read any of my posts concerning the Hornady L&L AP, you would know that I had one of the first ones sold back in 1997, you would know that I like my machine very much, and you would know that my machine works just fine the way I purchased it - I have not had to make any of the new EZ-Ject changes or whatever.

So give me a break here. I am not telling everyone to stop using their L&L feature. I am simply saying that I think I would rather stop using the feature for myself. I spent the first five years of owning my machine without ever buying any more bushings. After five years, I finally broke down and bought a bunch of extra bushings. I still do not keep bushings on expanding and seating dies since I am constantly making adjustments for different bullets.

I am simply asking who it was that mentioned it a week or so ago so I could get some more information to make a better informed decision on my part. And for those who may want to really bust my chops, I have also written many times that I have no use for an automatic case feeder and would not take one for free. Hey, you die your way, and I'll die mine.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

David Wile
September 9, 2009, 12:10 AM
Hey Ranger,

I just saw your post after I made my last post. Thanks for the ideas. After reading what you said, I suspect it was you who made the comment I was trying to find. I have always liked my L&L press, but not because of the L&L feature. To me, the bushings are a pain in the neck. Well, I might just alter that last statement to at least acknowledge that I do sometimes appreciate the bushing for the sizing die which I really do not make any changes. However, there are times when I want to use that sizing die in one of my single stage presses, and I have to take it out of the bushing.

Thanks again. I was starting to feel like I was becoming pesonna non grata with some of the Hornady owners.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

Canuck-IL
September 9, 2009, 12:10 AM
David,
I posted in that thread last week - but, I can't find it now either. Another thread disappeared Sat evening but I chalked it up to being a For Sale item that broke some rule or other...I do believe some threads are just evaporating.

Anyway, from memory, there were no tips offered nor did anyone claim to have done it. One guy posted that IF he had a bushing set-up, he'd permanently affix the bushing - one later poster agreed with the tired refrain, "Solution w/o a problem."

BTW, I like my bushings flexible; I don't have as many bushings as dies but, when I need one, they spin off the die quickly enough for me.

/Bryan

jeepmor
September 9, 2009, 01:03 AM
You want the red loctite.

As for the bushings, how much you want for them? I like mine, a lot. The versatility may be touted by others as not needed, but I really like the time they save me. However, I have found that I put just a touch of "wrench" on the bushing to be sure it doesn't move on me, until I want it out.

Shoney
September 9, 2009, 01:29 AM
I have to agree that for loaders that only change a few dies occasionally, no bushing isnecessary.

I prefer the bushings most when I load rifle cartridges. On some occasions I remove four stations and resize/prime and then do case prep, whatever I may need done. This would be a problem with the case activated PM in place.

When case prep is compleat, I pop out sizer, and pop in PM and seat/crimp.

For loading lead in pistols, I am too "sub-frugal" to buy another crimping die for seperate seat/crimp operations, again removing 4 stations and crimping with one station, which is quick, easy, and versitile.

You may only save 3-5 minutes on each change/changeover, but that is important to me in when time saving adds up.

snuffy
September 9, 2009, 02:57 AM
It was me. Here's my statement;


The lock & load bushings are an answer to a question that should never have been asked! A non problem. If you're so lazy you can't screw a die in and out, or in such a big hurry, you should just buy your ammo! You do realize you must buy a bushing for EACH die you will ever buy, right? The LNL hornady is a good single stage press. What I would do if given one, is put some locktite on one LNL bushing, leave it in the press. From then on I'd screw the dies in and out like always!

On this thread.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=473113

Now, there are numbers for locktite, along with the colors. 609 and 680 green locktite will cure pretty hard. It works when you remove air from it by putting it in a confined space, like threads or a bushing. It's anaerobic. 277 and 271 red are maximum holding strength fixatives. All it takes to get any locktite loose, is some heat, um quite a bit of heat for the red variety.

David Wile
September 9, 2009, 03:28 AM
Hey Snuffy,

Thanks for the reply. That is exactly what I was trying to remember and find. I would like to send you a PM with some more questions if you don't mind.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

double d
September 9, 2009, 08:40 AM
Check Gargodude's 8/20/09 post " A better way to lock your dies".
It's also on FiringLine.

double d
September 9, 2009, 08:43 AM
Check Gargodude's post on 8/20/09 titled "A better way to lock your dies".
It's also posted on FiringLine.

Sport45
September 9, 2009, 10:39 AM
Why do you need to lock them in place? Seems to me you could leave them in the machine and just screw your dies in and out of them. What will it add, 1/4 turn each way?

David Wile
September 9, 2009, 05:07 PM
Hey Sport45,

"Why do you need to lock them in place? Seems to me you could leave them in the machine and just screw your dies in and out of them. What will it add, 1/4 turn each way?

For the first five years I owned my AP, I actually did use it the manner you described. I did not have any extra bushings and simply screwed the dies in and out all the time. I do not mind screwing the dies in and out. The problem to me comes when I am making final and fine adjustments to the expanding die and the seating and crimping die. To get the exact adjustment I want, I have to screw the die in a little bit at a time until I get the right adjustment. This process usually requires my moving the die in and backing it back out a bit for the finished setting.

With a regular single stage press, it is quite simple to move it in and out in fine increments. With the L&L bushing it becomes a pain in the neck to me. As long as you are going in, it is OK, but when you want to back it out a bit, the bushing then turns back and unlocks, and it makes it more difficult to do my fine adjusting.

Now, once you get your seating and crimping die set the way you want it in the L&L bushing, you certainly can lock the die at that spot and really change it in and out of the press thereafter. However, this is only true if your intention is to never change bullets and you have no intention of using that die in a single stage press again. As soon as you want to change bullets or use the die in your single stage press, you have to give up all your hard work of adjusting the die in the L&L bushing and start over again.

I constantly go back and forth between my AP and my single stage press, and I do not want to spend the money to buy extra die sets for each purpose.

After my first five years of using the AP, I did buy a bunch of extra bushings and found that I was leaving a bushing locked in place on some of my sizing/depriming dies. Once the sizing die is set, I don't have to readjust it if I make a bullet change or whatever. However, I still had the same problem if I wanted to use the die in a single stage press, and I do a lot of work on a single stage press. Prior to my moving in 2005, I had a shooting range in my basement, and I was constantly doing tests of different bullets and such that it was far easier for me to use one or more of my single stage presses rather than the Hornady AP. While I do not have a shooting range in my basement now, I still find I have lots of small jobs to do on the single stage presses.

After thinking a good bit about locking the bushings in place, I am considering locking the bushings in Stations 1, 2, and 4 and giving that a try. They are the stations I usually use for my dies. I usually charge my cases in Station 3, and I would want to keep that bushing in working order because it actually facilitates my changing powder settings by quickly removing the powder measure assembly. I never use Station 5 so I cannot see any need to lock it in place at this point.

I do not want to permanently change my machine, so I am not so inclined to drill and tap any holes to hold the bushings in place. I am still thinking this through, but I think I might be inclined to try locking them in with Lock Tite. I am also inclined to use the blue first to see if it holds since it can be removed easier with less heat than the red if the time comes when I want to remove them.

Some years before I bought my AP in 1997, I had a friend who had the earlier Hornady progressive version which I think was called the Projector. I thought that was a great press, and using his led me to prefer the Hornady over the Dillon. However, my buddy had a number of things he disliked about his Projector. He was a machinist by trade, and he made all kinds of cuts, welds and holes to his machine to make it the way he wanted it. His machine looked a bit like Dr. Frankenstein had put it together, but it really did work very well.

I am not a machinist, and I am more inclined to take pride in keeping my machine looking the way it did when I bought it. My machine has worked very well from the beginning, and that includes my original primer feeder, wire ejector, and other parts that other folks have complained about. Even my bushings work as they were intended. They are still original with the original "O" rings, but they still lock in place and stay in place without working loose like some folks have complained about. I think my idea of locking the bushings in Stations 1, 2, and 4 will make me happier using the machine, but it will not do anything that will permanently change it into a Frankenstein.

So Sport45, I hope that give you a better idea of why I want to get rid of the L&L feature on at least three of my five stations.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

showmebob
September 9, 2009, 06:19 PM
David Wile
Thanks for the explanation! I sometimes get frustrated (just a tiny bit) doing fine adjustments. Reading your post I came up with an idea for a quickly reversible solution to locking the bushings in place.
But, I'm at work and need to look at my press to make sure it will work before making a fool out of my self (been there done that)
If it looks like my idea will work I'll try to post tomorrow.

David Wile
September 9, 2009, 06:33 PM
Hey Bob,

Thanks for the reply. I havn't done anything as yet, so I am looking forward to hearing what you come up with. Please let us know what you are thinking.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

wild willy
September 9, 2009, 07:08 PM
Try several wraps of teflon tape on and under the o ring my powder measure kept working loose and I used the tape used too many wraps the first time had to turn it loose with pliers I just use a couple on the powder measure hasn't worked loose but I can still turn it out to dump if you want it really tight use more tape

Walkalong
September 9, 2009, 07:08 PM
Most of my dies stay put after locked down in the bushings, but they are mostly only going to be used on the LNL. When swapping dies from my old threaded Projector to my RCBS single stage press they had to be readjusted anyway, so it's no different now if I want to use them on the RCBS.

For crimp dies that will be used to give varied crimps (.357 for instance (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5851415&postcount=26)) I only hand tighten the die in the bushing because I use spacers under the die to make adjustments in crimp. I have the crimp die set for a heavy crimp and use spacers to adjust for a lessor crimp when needed.

For me, and the way I use crimp dies, I could "lock" a bushing in the 5th station for that, although sometimes I seat and crimp at the same time in station 4.

I would like to see a nicely made crimp die made where you can adjust the amount of crimp with an upper adjustment instead of turning the die body, similar to the Lee FCD, but without the o-ring slop. (And without the "post sizing" of course ;))

Maybe I'll contract someone to make some of my own design......yea right. :)

I guess I could try to make one. That would try my patience for sure, being a real novice/beginner/wanna be machinist. :D

mongoose33
September 10, 2009, 03:58 PM
Try several wraps of teflon tape on and under the o ring my powder measure kept working loose and I used the tape used too many wraps the first time had to turn it loose with pliers I just use a couple on the powder measure hasn't worked loose but I can still turn it out to dump if you want it really tight use more tape

WildWilly, would you explain further? I'm not sure i understand where you're putting the teflon tape. My PM tends to work loose and I'd love a method to settle it down from its wandering ways.

wild willy
September 10, 2009, 04:37 PM
Just stick the LNL bushing on your finger and wrap the tape around it over the o ring one width of tape is enough it works better if you degrease the o ring and where it fits in the press

showmebob
September 10, 2009, 06:22 PM
David Wile

Looking at my press last night I believe this would work just fine. It will be quickly reversible with no permanent changes to anything except the LNL bushings and they will still be fully useable.
Please forgive the crudeness of this drawing. I've been buried at work selling real estate and didn't have much time to devote to this.
It will require a round plate the thickness of the top flange (or thinner) of the LNL bushings. The center hole is optional. The edge of the bushings where the drawing shows the plate overlapping the bushings needs to be ground away. This grinding needs to be done slowly and in small increments so as to not remove too much metal.
When the grinding on all bushings is done simply install the bushings, put the plate in place, install your dies and the bushings will be prevented from turning.
Or, at least this is the theory. I have not tested it. It is only an idea that I've spent a few minutes on. Feel free to improve upon it. Let me know if it works. Hope this helps!

BigJakeJ1s
September 10, 2009, 10:47 PM
In general, it is not a good idea to have part of the die's lock ring clamping down on the steel plate, and the rest of the lock ring's circumference unsupported. This will cause the die to tilt in its threads, which could substantially affect runout of the cartridge.

Is the metal plate held by anything other than the clamping force of the die lock rings and the tops of the bushings? If not, you might end up with the entire plate spinning by rotating each of the other die's bushings (think of the plate acting like a big gear, engaging each of the dies/bushings, which act like smaller gears).

You might be able to do this more simply by inserting the die bushing into the press bushing and clocking it to the locked position. Then drill a small vertical hole through the top flange of the die bushing, into the top flange of the press bushing, and installing a pin in the hole, flush with the top of the die bushing. This will be a pretty permanent fix holding the die and press bushings together, unless you figure out a way to remove that pin. If you change your mind, you can always get another press bushing and die bushing and start over.

Andy

showmebob
September 11, 2009, 12:06 AM
BigJakeJ1s

quote (In general, it is not a good idea to have part of the die's lock ring clamping down on the steel plate)
The dies lock ring will not clamp down on the steel plate [round plate the thickness of the top flange (or thinner) of the LNL bushings]
The metal plate is held in place by gravity. It would not spin. If you tried to twist the LNL bushings the edge of the bushing (where ground) would push straight across the plate further locking the other dies in place. The locking effect is very similar to having a lock tang bent up along the flat of a hex nut.
It was my impression that the OP did not want permanent modifications to his press to preserve resale value. If my idea works the only mod made is to the LNL bushings and they would still be useable.

showmebob
September 11, 2009, 12:25 AM
BigJakeJ1s

I'm sorry if I confused you with the drawing. Like I said in the post I am very busy and only had a few minutes to put it together. I should have Not Drawn the entire outer circumference of the bushing as the part where the drawing shows the plate overlapping will be ground away. The plate will lay flat on the press. The notch (if you call it that) that is ground into the bushing will fit snug against the plate.
I would have erased that part of the line but I did it in ink! If it continues to be a problem I will try to redraw it.

David Wile
September 11, 2009, 12:27 AM
Hey Bob,

I have your drawing printed out, and I am going down to look at the press to see if I can get some ideas off of yours. I will report back later.

Best wishes,
Dave

Sport45
September 11, 2009, 12:45 AM
Expanding on showmebob's idea, could the bushings be drilled for safety wire? Then you could lock all 5 together with twisted safety wire.

WV_Vizsla
September 11, 2009, 01:43 AM
How about grinding a flat spot on side of each bushing's top ring... Then roughening a corresponding spot on the top of the LNL frame... Then hot-glue it in place... That stuff is amazing when applied super hot.

I would not want to heat the LNL frame to the temperature that LockTite needs to break it's chemical bond.

Let us know how it works for you.

I solved a loosening powder station by wrapping Teflon tape as others here have, thanks THR LNL readers.

David Wile
September 11, 2009, 05:33 AM
Hey Bob,

I was looking at my press with your drawing in my hand, and I am pretty sure I understand how your idea works. I'll make some comments, and I hope you will tell me if I am on the right track or not.

First I need a washer the same thickness as the top rim of the bushings. If I could make the hole in the washer the same size as the hole in the center of my press head, I could put rod of some sort in the hole of the press and let the washer slip over the rod and fall down on top of five empty bushing that are locked in place. Then, somehow keeping the washer in place without moving, I might scribe a fine line on each bushing where the washer covers the rim of the bushing. Having scribed a curved line on each of the five bushings, I would then remove the metal from the bushings inside the scribed lines. Once the meatal was removed from all five bushings, if I replaced the bushings and locked them in place, I could then simply drop the washer in place, and the washer would keep all five bushings from being unlocked unless the washer was removed. Tell me if I have the idea right at this point.

Assuming I can do the five bushings as I described in the preceeding paragraph, I think I could make some changes to the idea. For example, suppose I only want to lock the bushings in Stations 1, 2, and 4 in place while leaving the bushings in Stations 3 and 5 to be used as normal. I would think I could simply scribe the bushings in Stations 1, 3, and remove the metal from their rims only. With the cut bushings in place in Stations 1, 2, and 4 and no bushings in Stations 3 and 5, I could drop the washer in place for locking Stations 1, 2, and 4 in place. I could then drop bushings in Stations 3 and 5 just letting them rest on the top of the washer. At this point I could scribe the edge of Bushings 3 and 5 on the washer under each. Then I could remove Bushings 3 and 5 and remove the metal from the scribed areas for Bushings 3 and 5. I would then have three bushings with crescent shaped cuts on the rim and a washer with two crescent shaped cuts on it. With the crescent cut bushings in Stations 1, 2, and 4, I could then drop the washer in place so the crescent cuts on the washer align with Stations 3 and 5. The bushings in Stations 1, 2, and 4 would be locked in place with the washer in place, but I would still be able to freely insert and remove the bushings in Stations 3 and 5.

Now tell me, Bob, does that make sense to you, and is that what you had in mind? If something is going over my head here, please let me know. It sounds right to me, but I don't know how difficult it would be to cut the bushings and the washer. In any case, it would not make any permanent change to the press itself.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

Sport45
September 11, 2009, 10:42 AM
That makes sense to me. If you do it you'll probably want to punch mark the tops of the modified bushings so you'll know which holes they're indexed to.

showmebob
September 11, 2009, 12:51 PM
David

I think you're on the right track.

If you use a center hole in the plate you could bolt it to the press during the scribing process just to insure it would not move. I would keep the plate close to the bushing flange thickness. A little thinner is ok, thicker is not. Make sure to remove metal a little at a time and recheck fit often.

I like your idea to allow some of the bushings to be removed by cutting the crescent shape into the plate. I suppose it might also work out to gain some flexibility by rotating or inverting the finished plate. Seems like there are some possibilities here. Maybe 2 different plate designs would cover a multitude of options?

I wish I had time to build one just for the fun of it! But, right now Salida CO real estate is keeping me very busy.

Keep us posted if you decide to build it. I don't think it would be hard, just precision grinding. I'd like to know any unexpected problems that arise. Send photos if you can.

Good luck.

Bob

realbuffdriver
September 12, 2009, 01:49 PM
Here's my implementation of a set screw. I originally did this because the powder measure kept coming loose, but have since found other ways to deal with the problem. It seems no more involved than the precision grinding, and it allows you to lock some bushings in place and allows others to turn.

Cheers,

BuffDriver

http://members.cox.net/buffdriver/1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/buffdriver/2.jpg

jeepmor
September 12, 2009, 03:33 PM
Do your bushings really come loose that often? I appreciate the endeavour and problem solving provided here, but as stated in my earlier thread, just a "touch" of wrench on my die nut locked to the bushing positively locks that bushing in so tight I cannot get it out with my bare hands. And it's really only a couple pounds of wrench pressure, honest.

I saw this same issue and tried this method and my dies bushings quit giving me any cause for concern.

David Wile
September 13, 2009, 12:15 AM
Hey folks,

I liked Bob's idea and have been measuring to figure out what size washer I should get and everything, and then Buffdriver comes up with another idea and pictures to boot. I haven't gone back down to check my press and bushings to see about drilling, tapping, and putting a set screw in like Buffdriver showed, but I am thinking it may be easier to do the set screw than to work out some bushings and a washer like Bob had me thinking. I am going to check out how much room I have to drill and tap the bushings, and I will let you all know where I am going.

Then Jeepmor raises the question about bushing coming loose that often. Like Jeepmor, in the past year I have also read about some folks complaining that their bushings come loose - especially the powder measure bushing. All I can say is that I still have the original bushings plus a bunch more I bought about eight years ago, and I have never had any of my bushings come loose in use. When I lock them in, they are in until I use a wrench to turn them out.

So my interest in locking the bushing in place is not because it comes loose, but rather, becacuse I would rather the bushing I use for my dies just stay in place so I can change my die sets like I would do on an old single stage.

I will keep you informed.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

showmebob
September 13, 2009, 11:37 AM
I believe BuffDriver's idea would work fine to keep the dies from working loose under normal use. But for what you want to do Dave, I would think it would be necessary to make a recessed spot in the press for the set screw to protrude into. This might be as simple as drilling a 1/8 inch (dimple if you will) hole in the top of the press. This should keep the bushings from loosening as you remove your dies. Just a thought.
Good luck!

David Wile
September 13, 2009, 12:24 PM
Hey Bob,

I was thinking the same thing when I looked at Buffdriver's pics. I did not like the idea of drilling or making ugly changes to my press, but I thought if I could put some decent set screws in three of my bushings, I would not mind locking the bushing in place and drilling down through the hole and making a small dimple in the press to firmly hold the set screw.

I still have not been down to look at the press and bushings with Buffdriver's idea in mind, but if there is enough room to drill and tap a hole for a set screw, I think that idea may be easier than working on a washer.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

Walkalong
September 13, 2009, 12:46 PM
As designed, the bushings have a bit of "float" to them, allowing them to "center up" on the brass before the bushing stops moving upwards in its "holder", which should help every operation be more concentric, which can only be good for accuracy etc.

I would not lock them in, especially on one side only, for that very reason.

I am a cheap b******, but I will still be buying, and using, bushings for all of my dies, just for the time savings/convenience, and knowing that each time I put the dies in the press, that they are exactly the same as last time, being anal and all. If I wanted to save money on bushings, I would just screw the dies in and out of a set or two, as needed, but not lock them in.

My 2 cents. :)

oldreloader
September 13, 2009, 03:38 PM
if the bushing "float" up wouldn't that pesent a problem seating bullets? Resizing would have enough pressure to take the float out but would it be consistent enough seating bullets? I have a Lee Breechlock and it does the same thing. I'm thinking about sellng it and sticking with my old RCBS JR because of the "float" in the bushing. It's fine otherwise.

Walkalong
September 13, 2009, 03:54 PM
Hasn't posed a problem. They don't move much.

David Wile
September 13, 2009, 05:24 PM
Hey Walk,

I don't think you're right about the L&L bushings "floating" up. I know they have a rubber "O" ring under the top edge, but I am pretty sure it does not allow any upward floating of the bushing once it is locked in place. The locking flutes at the bottom of the bushing slide down their grooves till the "O" ring stops the bushing from going any further downward. It is only when you push down on the bushing (with locked die in it) and slightly compress the "O" ring that you are able to turn the bushing its 1/4 inch turn to lock its bottom flutes in place under the corresponding flutes of the outer bushing receiver.

If I am correct in the mechanics of this, then the bushing istself is actually locked in place from any upward movement. If there is any "float" at all, it would be that the bushing could move downward slightly if downward force were placed on the bushing which would then compress the "O" ring.

With this in mind, I don't see how the L&L bushings and dies can do anything to "center up" the brass on an up stroke "before the bushing stops moving upwards in its 'holder'." My point is that a locked in place bushing cannot move upward at all because the die, the bushing, the bushing "holder" or receiver, and the press itself are all securely locked in place against any upward force. I would suspect there could be some very slight downward movement of the bushing on the down stroke due to the compressing of the "O" ring, but any such movement on the down stroke would have nothing to do with the premise that it could "center up" the brass in any of the dies.

Think about my take on the lock up of the bushings and tell me if I am wrong or missing something.

In any case, I was down looking at my press and bushings to see about implementing Buffdriver's idea of drilling, tapping, and placing a set screw in the bushing to hold it in place. If you look at Buffdriver's pics, you will notice that his drill hole has opened the side of his bushing rim. When I looked at my bushings and press, I just did not think there was enough room between the "O" ring and the edge of the bushing for me to put a tapped hole and set screw. Even if I could put a really small one in the limited space, the set screw would actually be "setting" in the edge of the bushing receiver unit or bushing "holder" as Walk called it. That idea does not appeal to me. I wish the bushing edge were wider so I could drill & tap a hole and have a set screw touch the top of the press instead.

I still don't know what to do. Maybe Bob's washer idea is still worth trying. Also, the idea of using Blue Loc Tite would be OK if it would actually hold the bushings in place. I have used Loc Tite on screw threads, but these bushings are based on rather large flutes that only seat on a rather small total surface.

Hey Walk,

Let me know what you think about my comments on your "floating" concept. I'd like to know if I am wrong. As far as just screwing the dies in the bushings goes, I don't mind screwing dies in and adjusting them in a single stage press. The problem I have is screwing dies into and adjusting them in the L&L bushing which locks and unlocks and is a pain in the neck to get adjusted where I want it. I absolutely agree with all of the folks who say they love changing dies using the L&L bushings - once the die is set up and you are not going to make any further adjustments. I just happen to make frequent changes to my dies and use them back and forth between the L&L press and the single stage presses. When you do what I do, the L&L bushings are a pain in the neck to me.

No matter what, I am pretty sure that I am going to come up with some way to lock the three bushings in place on my press. It will probably be the idea of someone else on the forum, but I am determined to change the working of my bushings to suit my use. And I'll bet Walk a nickel that he's not anywhere near as cheap as I.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

Walkalong
September 13, 2009, 06:27 PM
The O-Ring is taking up the necessary tolerances, just like the springs in the ball detents take up the slack designed into the shellplate/sub assembly set up.
There has to be a certain amount of slack, and the ball detents keep things snug. Too little slack and the plate binds, too much and it is loose, just enough and the detents are able to work correctly. The O-Ring takes up the slack in the bushing to "bushing holder" fit.

Take an O-Ring off of a bushing and try it in the press. You will see what I mean. ;)

Walkalong
September 13, 2009, 06:29 PM
If there is any "float" at all, it would be that the bushing could move downward slightly if downward force were placed on the bushing which would then compress the "O" ring.It allows side to side movement to align the brass to the die.

Oh, and I have seen the bushing move up when under a strain from a heavy crimp.

If you enjoyed reading about "Permanently Locking In The L&L Bushing" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!