China's Strict Gun Laws Make me Feel Safe


PDA






SpotlightRanger
September 9, 2009, 09:50 PM
Or so says the writer of this piece......

http://opinion.globaltimes.cn/foreign-view/2009-08/457150.html

By William Daniel Garst


I have lived in China for four years and there are naturally many things that I miss about my mother country, the United States.
However, the August 4 multiple shooting in Bridgeport, Pennsylvania, in which a gunman killed three people and wounded 10 others, was a reminder of one thing I don’t miss about the US, namely its pervasive gun violence.
I have personally experienced this gun violence. In the fall of 1994, while sharing a house in Los Angeles, I survived a shootout that occurred inside the dwelling. And several years later, when living in my Central California hometown, I was shot at while walking to a local video store. Fortunately, the gunman hit the building I was walking beside, not my head.
In addition to Beijing’s history, culture and hospitable locals, I have come to value the sense of personal security that has come with living here. I have spent many nights walking on the city’s streets in all kinds of neighborhoods and have never felt in the least bit threatened. Indeed, I have yet to be robbed, much less violently assaulted.
Nearly 17,000 people were murdered in the US during 2005. In that year, 31,000 homicide cases were reported in China, according to the Ministry of Public Security. Since China’s population greatly exceeds that of the US, the murder rate per 100,000 citizens here is 2.39, less than half of the US figure of 5.61.
Thus even if the Chinese figures somewhat underreport the number of homicides, China is a much safer country than the US.
It will not do to ascribe this difference to China’s heavy use of the death penalty. Most US states also execute murderers. In fact, the murder rate of the state of Texas, which executes more people than any other US state, is slightly above the US average (5.9 per 100,000 citizens, the 17th highest in the country).
And despite Louisiana’s active use of the death penalty, New Orleans is the US’s most violent city, with a murder rate of 70 per 100,000 citizens.
Thus while capital punishment might be justified on moral grounds — people who take other people’s lives should forfeit their own — the empirical evidence suggests that it is no deterrent to murder.
Moreover, the Bridgeport gunman, along with gunmen in a string of other recent US shooting atrocities, as well as the infamous Columbine High School massacre, all killed themselves before they could be arrested. Would anyone claim that the death penalty acts as a deterrent in these cases?
One could argue that the US’ inner city poverty and gangs is what makes it more violent than China. It is true that these pathologies are much less acute here than in the US. However, the ready availability of guns, including the famous AK-47 assault rifle, is what makes US gang violence so deadly.
And while China’s recent rapid socio-economic change has been overwhelmingly for the better, it has made the lives of many people more insecure. The current Chinese leadership recognizes this and is striving to create a “harmonious society,” but the number of embittered and disturbed people more prone to commit crimes, including murder, has certainly grown in China in recent years.
However, these people lack access to firearms. Guns are used for sports, like marksmanship and hunting, but their main purpose has always been to provide an effective way of killing people. In particular, they make it easy to kill a bunch of people at once. By contrast, it is much more difficult to stab, strangle, or beat to death one person and next to impossible to do that to four or five people in one go.
Consider last year’s tragic Drum and Bell Tower stabbing. If the former worker who committed this senseless act had possessed a gun, he could have from the tower shot and killed not just one, but scores of people.
US gun-owners would certainly say that their freedom to own guns makes all Americans freer than people in China. They fail to recognize that a tradeoff exists between this..... (continued on site)

If you enjoyed reading about "China's Strict Gun Laws Make me Feel Safe" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
EmGeeGeorge
September 9, 2009, 10:33 PM
So you're less likely to be shot in a robbery with an illegal firearm, but more likely to be run over with a tank...

IMHO we'll be at war with China in a decade or less. We'll have funded the worlds largest navy by buying plastic lawn chairs...

JellyJar
September 9, 2009, 10:52 PM
It must be nice to be a sheep. You have this nice man with a gun or club and his dog that will protect you from all the nasty wolves. However, when the man gets hungry or needs some wool for clothes where do you thing that will come from???:scrutiny:

China has one of the most corrupt and oppressive governments in the world. Poor people without any cache with the authorities are being imprisoned because they dare to complain when corrupt officials and business men steal their land and poison their children. ( Google about a recent case of children and lead poison to see what I mean ).

There are actually more criminals in China per person than here in the U.S. It is just that in China most criminals wear police uniforms or belong to the communist party.

I hope that whoever wrote that article stays there long enough to suffer like so many of the poor Chinese peasants are doing so now!!!:cuss:

9mm+
September 9, 2009, 10:55 PM
IMHO we'll be at war with China in a decade or less. We'll have funded the worlds largest navy by buying plastic lawn chairs...

Fantastic! Perfectly stated!

As for the OP, it comes down to freedoms and the inevitable trade-offs. Do you want to live in an authoritarian regime and forego individual freedoms for the sake of supposedly safer communities? Or, do you cherish your freedoms in return for the occasional whack-job that goes on a murder spree? My choice is the latter...by a long shot.

What the writer doesn't mention is that there is very little recourse to change these regimes in China and elsewhere. The ideas of individual liberties and self-determination are uniquely American. If you don't like what you see in America, you CAN change it through patience, organization, and determination.

nathan
September 9, 2009, 10:57 PM
China uses execution style firing Tokarev round to the back of the head. THose zip with ease thru skulls. I think they are swift in carrying out the death sentence.

Mt Shooter
September 9, 2009, 10:58 PM
Where does this guy go/do that gets him shot at all the time??????

twofifty
September 9, 2009, 10:58 PM
What an idiot that author is.

Good point about the Tianmen Square tanks. Sure was good of the Ohio National Guard not to use tanks at Kent State.

With regard to population and crime, according to published national crime statistics, in the first years of the 21st century, just over 2,000,000 people were incarcerated in the States. In China, the figure was just over 1,400,000.

Not that I'd like to live over there...

edit: yeah, better to deal with the occasional whack job.

Darthbauer
September 9, 2009, 10:59 PM
China might have "more or better" gun laws but it does not change the fact that the company that I work for had to spend a small fortune on private security because of death treats on employee's while they were in China.

JCisHe
September 9, 2009, 11:00 PM
I wish Chinamen were allowed to have weapons so they could rise up against their oppressive and evil government.

JellyJar
September 9, 2009, 11:05 PM
I can't find the link but a couple of years ago I read somewhere that home made bombs were one of the most common weapons in China due to the lack of firearms but apparently available commercials explosives. I'm sorry I couldn't find a link but I did find this about rat poison:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/17/world/rat-poison-murder-weapon-of-choice-in-rural-china.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Where there is a will there is a way :uhoh:

c2m
September 9, 2009, 11:18 PM
New Orleans is the US’s most violent city, with a murder rate of 70 per 100,000 citizens.

Interesting i guess he missed the part of N.O.being 11th on the list and Detroit being top dog. Then again here in Chicago we have had more deaths then the soldiers in iraq

Justin
September 9, 2009, 11:21 PM
So the author points to Chinese gun laws as being the reason for why china has a low per-capita crime rate? I might be willing to concede he has a point just as soon as he writes an essay highlighting the Chinese justice system's respect for due process and acknowledgment of certain civil rights. After all we're talking about a country that routinely locks up bloggers and facebook users for posting content that is critical of the government. If they're willing to lock you up with no trial simply for posting something on the web, how do you think they treat a petty criminal? Somehow I kinda doubt they hear anything like miranda upon arrest. Nor do I consider it likely that they receive a speedy or fair trial.

The author can hate on US gun owners all he wants, but the fact of the matter is that those crime free streets he enjoys so much come at the cost of a system repressive of its citizens' rights in more venues than gun ownership.

ChronoCube
September 9, 2009, 11:25 PM
If the former worker who committed this senseless act had possessed a gun, he could have from the tower shot and killed not just one, but scores of people.

He could also have been shot BACK AT by others, just like in the University of Texas shooting...

average_shooter
September 9, 2009, 11:34 PM
By contrast, it is much more difficult to stab, strangle, or beat to death one person and next to impossible to do that to four or five people in one go.

Wasn't it just in the news, I think I saw part of a story on CNN earlier today, about someone who managed to bludgeon to death eight or nine people in one household... IIRC, all but one are dead, I believe it's an 3 year old that's still critical.

EDIT: Found the story: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-ap-us-mobile-home-slayings,0,7708299.story

RedLion
September 9, 2009, 11:35 PM
Well in some respects I'd have to disagree with some of you about the freedoms allowed in China... I'd actually be more comfortable there in a Chicago sized city there than here in the U.S. I personally believe its because of the Chinese's no tolerance policy for crimes like dealing drugs and other things that seem to coincide with violent crime...

On top of that.. the Chinese government is going to have to be very careful in the coming decades. There is about 20 million young male surplus because of the one child policy, not to mention 800 million living in the rural impoverished areas. If the Chinese government doesn't do enough to help these people get a better lifestyle and makes enough people angry enough that even 1% of that population decides to do something about it, they've effectively created the largest fight force in the world.

The Chinese government only cares about retaining power. If they see that they cannot do that with out some sort of reform (which has been happening the last couple of years) they will choose to reform over losing power. Right now you can do quite a few things that would not fly in the U.S. as long as it doesn't mess with the government.

I still wouldn't be surprised if many organized crime elements still had as good as or better access to weapons than the ones over here though.

mljdeckard
September 9, 2009, 11:39 PM
The Chinese system look great......unless you are one of the 70 MILLION killed by the communist regime in the last several decades.

copper4262
September 9, 2009, 11:45 PM
what an idiot - china can keep him

nathan
September 9, 2009, 11:57 PM
The only way you can defend yourself in China is learn martial arts. Fend off attackers with your arms and legs , LOL

THE DARK KNIGHT
September 10, 2009, 12:32 AM
Afraid of guns? Check.
Another Country is better than the USA? Check.
Mention of the AK-47 Assault Rifle? Check.

Just another liberal fool with a blog.

MD_Willington
September 10, 2009, 12:44 AM
Well... if it is so awesome in China, then how come I routinely have Chinese engineers ask me at work about going shooting...

Given the choice, I bet they'd all love to have their own Norinco Type 56...

cyclopsshooter
September 10, 2009, 01:08 AM
I went to school in Beijing for a year and felt very safe- Might have had more to do with me being 6'2 280lbs...
I missed firearms but never felt the need for one while there...

Still, the censorship there sucks... western news outlets blocked, instant messages disrupted for "unpopular conversations" ... :scrutiny: ... all I was doing was bashing their education system for lack of free thought... I got BLOCKED :cuss:

Got knocked down by PLA soldiers at Tiananmen square... I SWEAR I never saw them coming...

Had dinner at a colleagues house with her and her husband- wonderful people they are! but they had to stop me on several sensitive subjects for fear of wiretaps in their apartment :what:

Come to think of it, I didn't feel as safe as I thought...

9MMare
September 10, 2009, 01:26 AM
Fantastic! Perfectly stated!

As for the OP, it comes down to freedoms and the inevitable trade-offs. Do you want to live in an authoritarian regime and forego individual freedoms for the sake of supposedly safer communities? Or, do you cherish your freedoms in return for the occasional whack-job that goes on a murder spree? My choice is the latter...by a long shot.

.
x2

"Freedom doesnt mean safe, it means free."

Not to mention that there is no way that the govt could EVER get the guns out of the hands of criminals.....so that would just put all the rest of us more in jeopardy.

kdstrick
September 10, 2009, 01:47 AM
Yes. If only our justice system was like China's.

That darn Bill of Rights just keeps getting in the way. It's mostly the problem with "innocent until proven guilty", and that right to 'a speedy trial' that causes problems.

If we could do away with all our rights we could REALLY crack down on crime. Think about the possibilities. We could imprison anyone who disagreed with us, or maybe people that look at us funny. With no trials, think how efficient our system would be. Arrest, imprison, hard labor... the guy gives you any trouble, torture him into compliance, and let him go (or not) whenever you feel like it. :what:

Yeah... China has a great system. :rolleyes:

chris in va
September 10, 2009, 02:11 AM
I have spent many nights walking on the city’s streets in all kinds of neighborhoods and have never felt in the least bit threatened

Emphasis added. You gotta love that fact vs 'feel' argument.

RoostRider
September 10, 2009, 02:12 AM
I spent some time in Singapore this past winter.... the crime rate is remarkably low.... there is little to no trash on the streets (aside from market areas)... there aren't even loud stereos in cars.... no one swears at anyone on the sidewalk... I felt safe at 2am walking in the 'red light' district with 2 women and myself... no one even begs for change...

They also have a 'freedom of speech stage' in the middle of the city... because they were accused of being oppressive of such things... anyone could use it to say whatever they wanted, even in defiance of the government.... it got shut down, and now you can only use it with permission and for approved subjects (Dissing the government is not one of them)....

They also have a $1000 fine for chewing or importing gum (that's right, you can't even have it in your house)... they also have a hefty fine for just about everything else... you can't even own a walkie-talkie over there.... and undercover cops all over the place watching people...

The government and large corporations import and exploit Malay workers by the droves... leaving them living in wretched little housing complexes...

You get to be president by being the son of the president....

The long time friends I was visiting were nervous about even discussing the government with me unless we were in private in a car...

I'll take what we have here....

JHansenAK47
September 10, 2009, 02:13 AM
I like how he mentions China's death penalty in comparison to the US but doesn't compare our legal proceedings to China's. I guess comparing the two justice systems doesn't support his argument. Kind of makes it the silver lining of a travesty of justice.

YoungBrave
September 10, 2009, 02:16 AM
Somehow, none of what this guy writes makes me want to give up my guns, or worse yet, live in China.

ironcode
September 10, 2009, 03:43 AM
Also nobody mentioned that FOREIGHNERS are much safer in China than the Chinese, because of the severely harsh punishments for offenses against foreighners. If somebody mugs a foreighner, they're dead if they get caught. Creates a great impression on visitors (oh, how safe it is!), but that's just a facade... Or so I've been told.

Mr. Bojangles
September 10, 2009, 04:00 AM
Anyone who is foolish enough to trust statistics released by a communist country...:uhoh:
I almost started a two-page rant to point out the obvious.

Zoogster
September 10, 2009, 04:39 AM
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.switched.com/media/2009/02/van-large.jpg

http://cdnll-8.liveleak.com/s/16/media16/2009/Mar/30/LiveLeak-dot-com-8e8ec6b25a74-deathvan.jpg?rs=150&e=1253176900&h=d058eda82a32c6120af34f6a53cb4bf8

Mobile Chinese execution bus. Just one of numerous such buses that travel throughout China executing and harvesting organs for sale.

China has one of the largest markets in selling organs of executed prisoners. When the demand for organs increases, as if by magic an increase in people convicted of capitol punishment crimes happens.


I remember part of a story were a lawyer spoke out that every single one of his clients had been found guilty, and that the process was merely a formality where anyone charged was found guilty. The lawyer then was taken by police and disappeared as well.
One of the lawyers clients had been tried, convicted, and executed for a rape and murder charge. The real rapist later confessed.
Here it is, complete with the lawyer speaking out before he is never seen again: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5f0_1175771241



Eventually though China will be the most powerful and dominant nation in the world. They are already getting close, and will be there soon.

Deanimator
September 10, 2009, 12:44 PM
So you're less likely to be shot in a robbery with an illegal firearm, but more likely to be run over with a tank...
... or starved to death with millions of others.

I have three words for that twit:

G R E A T L E A P F O R W A R D

Oonzpoonz
September 10, 2009, 03:00 PM
So the author points to Chinese gun laws as being the reason for why china has a low per-capita crime rate? I might be willing to concede he has a point just as soon as he writes an essay highlighting the Chinese justice system's respect for due process and acknowledgment of certain civil rights.
+1 Well said

Freedom incurs risks. China can keep him.

D94R
September 10, 2009, 03:48 PM
So... per capita, China's murder rate is half.

Hate to break the news to this dolt, but if he were killed in China, he'd still be 100% dead, not half.

LightningJoe
September 10, 2009, 04:03 PM
America isn't necessarily for everybody. I'm happy for people who prefer China to go live there. Take Obama, Pelosi, and Reid with you.

SharpsDressedMan
September 10, 2009, 06:03 PM
Well, you could always defect. You have to be willing to put up with all that China has to offer to have that kind of "security". It might be just great, until they want to make an example of YOU over something, and you find you have no significant "rights".

9mm+
September 10, 2009, 06:40 PM
Take Obama, Pelosi, and Reid with you.

Especially Pelosi. Please, please, PLEASE take her...anywhere but here...

Shung
September 10, 2009, 08:21 PM
Especially Pelosi. Please, please, PLEASE take her...anywhere but here

Im glad her family left Italy a long time ago ;)

SpotlightRanger
September 10, 2009, 08:26 PM
I think this quote does it the most justice:

"Look at it this way. If America frightens you, feel free to live somewhere else. There are plenty of other countries that don't suffer from excessive liberty. America is where the Liberty is. Liberty is not certified safe." -- gh@c2

jn1965
September 10, 2009, 09:28 PM
I have a question... Who is this guy? Is he even a real person? I mean we are talking China where every aspect of life is controlled by the government. Maybe, if he is real, he feels the way he wrote. Maybe he is paid to write things like this. Maybe he is being FORCED to write things like this. A real possibility is that "he" is an office in the 'Ministry of Information"

Oh and I love the mention of AK-47s. Who is the largest exporter of AKs? I bet it is Norinco :D
Personally, I would never buy any weapon made in China. I had to debate myself for a while before buying a Romanian gun.

I work down the street from the "Memorial to Those Oppressed by Communism"
It is a smaller scale version of the Tienanmen Square statue. There are always wreaths placed there by survivors or their families. Some of the notes are very touching.

4v50 Gary
September 10, 2009, 09:34 PM
China's advantage is a more homogeneous society than our own. Stricter upbringing is part of the culture too and there also a stronger sense of shame that accompanies misconduct.

Here in America our criminals gloat in the glory of their misdeeds.

9mm+
September 10, 2009, 09:41 PM
Here in America our criminals gloat in the glory of their misdeeds.

...and are celebrated for it.

CornCod
September 10, 2009, 09:48 PM
I remember reading an article a few months ago, I wish I could give a citiation, but I don't recall it. The article said that mainland Chinese really love firearms and millions of Chinese shoot them discreetly in isolated areas. If a person is of the proper socio-economic group and not a political enemy of the local police, the cops look the other way at technically illegal gun possession. I hear owning a gun is a bit of a fad in mainland China now, a symbol of having made it to the middle or upper classes.

thub
September 10, 2009, 09:53 PM
I believe he has been on Vacation with Van Jones our ex Dear Green Czar. Hey, maybe he can invite him over there to la la land.

nathan
September 10, 2009, 09:54 PM
Sooner or later as the Chinese get richer and richer, i bet they can own guns. They can bribe officials like in other countries. The world is changing , watch and see. Its matter of time and not how .Money speaks...

Tim the student
September 10, 2009, 10:40 PM
I wonder how comfortable he would feel if he wasn't a foreigner.

Lots of very fast trials that end in death (also very fast) there.

Funny that he overlooks those things about China.

He is welcome to stay there if he wants - I won't miss him here.

akodo
September 10, 2009, 11:11 PM
in china, criminals won't shoot you...THE GOVERNMENT WILL

you'll be just as dead.

Zoogster
September 11, 2009, 12:56 AM
So... per capita, China's murder rate is half
China is also known to create whatever statistics it feels will be both believed, and paint the nation in the best image possible. The government controls the media, and all legal statistics and government reports are under the control of the one party government, reviewed and released as they desire.

So they won't say 0, but they will say something that is both believable absent any other sources, and significantly less than reality.


China does this well, but many other nations do the same thing. In the United States the rates reported are much closer to reality than the rates reported by many other governments. Some governments even divide thier crimes into strange classifications to avoid traditional tallies, so the resulting rate of certain crimes is different than it would be recorded in a place like the US.
Lying to paint the best picture possible is common of authoritarian single party regimes. After all there is no other political party to blame things on, and also only one party to take credit for success or failure.

Dannix
September 11, 2009, 07:47 AM
That article writer nuts.

There are plenty of guns in China. Unfortunately, only the government has them. They don't use them too much though as they have other means. Imagine the same gun restrictions here + martial law in effect. Yeah, that sounds great. Remember when socialism was a bad word?!

If we do for whatever reason go to war one day, I would anticipate invasion. China has a lot of people. I mean a lot. Maybe India would come on our side though? I don't want to think about it really. German's about due to go a conquering though.

sniper5
September 11, 2009, 07:58 AM
If he has lived there 4 years and feels safer, he should probably stay.

Just sayin'

If you enjoyed reading about "China's Strict Gun Laws Make me Feel Safe" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!