Blued guns - why no more?

[Lightsped]

My dad has a number of guns from the 60s and early 70s. Alot of his have a nice blued job on them.

Why is it that almost everything nowadays comes in a "tactical" dull black? Is the "tactical" look just the in thing nowadays or what?

Will we ever see nicely blued guns being produced again?

[sgt127]

Actually polishing a gun for that deep blue is alot of work. Alot of work involves alot of money. A couple passes with a glass bead blaster gives a nice uniform appearence that will take a decent blue job.

Bluing, though attractive, is not very rust resistant. Alot of the new polymer finishes are alot tougher, but, will never have the shine of a real blue job. I think alot of people buy guns these days more as tools. Its not worth the extra money for the fine blue job. When I wanted a new OU shotgun, I found the Berretta Essential. I called and talked to the Berrettas guys and found that the Essential is mechanically the same gun as their high end Over Unders. Except it has a glass bead blast finish and American Walnut stock. To me, it was worth saving $500-800 for a very well made, functional shotgun.

Blueing is a bit of an art. Temperature , ratios have to be just right. Again, alot of labor involved.

Bluing deals with alot of nasty chemicals as does real electro nickel plating. the EPA rules have tightened down on alot of small smiths that used to do different finishes.

[Nightcrawler]

The blueing on my two Smith N-Frames is beautiful. Unfortunately, I'm always wiping fingerprints off of them.

Still, they add class to a gun with personality, like a revolver. There'd be little point in blueing, say, a Glock, or other modern mass-produced double action semiauto. Custom jobs may be one thing, but then, the Glock especially doesn't lend itself to customization.

Blueing is good, however, for 1911 variants, Hi-Powers, and maybe a few others. I think the Beretta 92 would look good in an illustrious blue, as would the CZs. (You can indeed still get the CZ pistols in glossy blue finish.)

Also, can you do a proper blueing job on an alloy frame? If not, that'd help explain why you don't see them as much anymore, but I really have no idea.

[Swamprabbit]

I imagine that blued steel went the way that wood stocks are going. I agree that alot of it is work but I also believe that the market is wanting tougher finishes now that what they used to.

Cheap finishes are exemplified by what Remington puts on their Express series of shotguns and rifles. This finish doesn't seem to do a thing to prevent rust and I'm sure it doesn't cost Remington much at all to produce.

[10-Ring]

I would think that rich blue finishes are falling victim to high labor costs in the US :( Much easier to back on a finish or just use a shiny metal to begin with ;)

[Nightcrawler]

And it's true that for someone who buys a revolver, loads it, and leaves in the dresser drawer for 30 years, stainless might be a better choice than a nice blue job.

Cheap blueing looks awful, and rich blueing is expensive to make. So, blueing is probably best left to custom shop or high-end guns, whereas the teflon/tennifer/polymer/parkerized/whathaveyou finishes are better for "rack grade" guns, as is stainless steel.

Nickel usually just looks tacky in my opinion. ;)

Hard chrome is a good choice, too, for a durable (yet attractive) finish.

[mete]

To give you an example, in the 70s the S&W m27 and m28 were the same gun except for the finish but the fancier m27 cost 1/3 more than the plain matt finish m28. A proper high polish finish is also a high skill job and there are far fewer people with those high skills.

[Bullet Bob]

Nickel - tacky?!? Just kidding, I've had a like/dislike going on with it over the years, I'll buy one, then sell it. Here's my only current nickel finished handgun, a model 57:

http://www.fototime.com/0FCE98E33623CFE/standard.jpg

[Zundfolge]

Another problem is that the old blueing methods that produced the best results are done with chemicals that have either been banned by the EPA, or the OSHA/EPA requirements for their use cause a gunmaker to incur much greater cost.

[Bainx]

BulletBob--I think it looks DARN GOOD!:)

[redneck2]

our current "I have no time" mentality makes a nicely blued gun a thing of the past. Too much work.

My friend had a chance to buy an original Belgian Browning shotgun still in the original box (unfired) for $650. Told the local dealer. Thought he'd say it was a steal.

Nope...said that was probably about right. A few years ago the gun would have brought over twice that. Today they want no-hassle Parkerized finishes and plastic stocks.

Model 29 S&W's used to bring good money. We had one in the original wooden presentation box, unfired. At $550 it sat in the sales case for 6 months. Dozens and dozens of Glocks, H-K's, etc sold in the meantime.

FWIW..the gunsmith at our local store will do a blue job that rivals the best Colt and Smith work. Reasonable, but he does it because he like to.

[SteelyDan]

I think this is a great question.

I tend to worship at the alter of long-term reliability, which weighs heavily in favor of the stainless/phosphorus/black-whatever-matte finishes, but at the same time there's just something really cool about the old blued finishes. Even if they're sorta worn.

Bottom line: I like them both, but for different reasons.

Just for investment purposes, I supsect one couldn't go wrong by picking up older cherry blued models. Ten years from now, I suspect the increase in their values will beat the stock market. Then again, my track record on investment choices is unbelievably bad...

[hansolo]

I bought a 1956 S&W Military/Police tapered 4" Bbl. that was the duty gun of a Los Angeles Police Officer: I paid $100.00. The blueing is about 95%...just a touch of holster wear on the cylinder front edge. With the factory "target" grips(wood), it's my favorite handgun. I'd bet it shoots as well as when new.

[Majic]

It's not that a blued finish is not durable. The industry is doing everything possible to save on maufactoring for cost considerations. That and the fact that there are so many gun owners to lazy to take care of their firearms have pushed the rich, deep blued finishes into the history books. The newer finishes and alloys are durable, but don't overlook the thousands upon thousands of guns we own today that were blued in the factories many, many years ago. The well cared for models may show some wear or have aged gracefully to a nice patina, but they are not a pile of rusting metal as some today seem to imply about a blued finish. Even hard working models with the finish worn thru still survives with a little oil wipe down.
I wish we had choices on the finishes we buy instead of the industry making the choice for us.



And it's true that for someone who buys a revolver, loads it, and leaves in the dresser drawer for 30 years, stainless might be a better choice than a nice blue job.
If the drawer stays dry the blued model will look just as new as the day it was placed there. If it's damp, both will have rusted.

Also, can you do a proper blueing job on an alloy frame? If not, that'd help explain why you don't see them as much anymore, but I really have no idea.
The light weight alloys doesn't have a high enough iron content to blue. Alloys are anodized to add color.

[WonderNine]

I love nickel guns because of the look and how resistant they are to corrosion in certain environments. More so than hard chroming! Though of course electroless nickel is not very durable when it comes to banging your gun around. But I try to be careful in that way.

Yea, I long for the day when you could get a nice beautiful deeply blued gun and bang it around not having to worry about the finish because you could always buy another. But those days are gone for now. :(

[J Miller]

redneck2,

Could you give us (me) the name of this gunsmith that does the good blueing?

There isn't a gunsmith anywhere near me in central IL. Just idiots and gun butchers.

Thanks, J

[SirVette]

Yes, some want that look...
Since they found out they could sell cheap (to the military) plastic guns for a high price to the public...


Bullet Bob

Nice S&W.

:cool:

2 COLTs

[Atticus]

"Blued guns - why no more?"

Because C.R. Sam is hoarding them all.

[James Bondrock]

As I see it, there are three main reasons. First, peoples' tastes have changed over the years; they are more interested in the practical and utilitarian nowadays. Bluing is not terribly durable or rust resistant when the gun is carried or shot a lot. Second is the cost of labor to polish the metal surfaces and apply and polish the bluing. This would probably add $100 or more to the already high cost of a new gun. Third is the environmental considerations; bluing requires corrosive chemicals (it is, after all, a controlled rusting process). Smith & Wesson has actually lost the formula for their old "Bright Blue" finish. Their new "retro" look N-frame revolvers from the Performance Center (which are made without regard to cost and have a price tag to match) have color case-hardened frames.

[Bullet Bob]

Uh, but those "retro look" revolvers have blued cylinders and barrels, don't they? And some of them do have have fully blued frames.

[RustyHammer]

Less labor to produce means
More money in their backpocket.

Rusty

[2cats]

J Miller,

Strongly recommend that you call Dave Stagg in Port Byron, Il. (309) 523-2597.

[Thefumegator]

Why? Well, quite frankly, I don't care.

I recently bought a second hi power -- a FEG that had a beautiful blued finish. Just from the very little use I've given it (mostly under-the-pillow duty with a morning and night wipe-off) has harbored more rust than I'll probably ever see on my Browning.

First I found a bit under a grip, which I immediately got under control. Then, not a week later, small spots began to appear on both sides of the trigger guard. And much to my chagrin, the rust would not come off with any amount of oil and bronze brush -- it took a stainless steel brush to get the rust off. Wouldn't you just know it, it took the finish off too. It takes a DRASTIC storing regiment to keep the rust away, meaning a complete wipe off (without grips), completely saturating with CLP, and storing it in a rag that's also saturated with CLP.

No sir, no more blued finishes for serious guns for me anymore -- maybe for "pretty guns" or range toys. I'm already scheming about having this one refinished, and perhaps getting night sights installed.

Yeah, it's pretty... but it just ain't practical. Give me something that won't rust if you look at it funny.

Wes

[zahc]

I have found some blueing to rust if you look at it funny, and require a lot of attention.